Potential Roster/Stage Leak Thread

[BindingBlade]

Yes, I've played Uprising. It is a fantastic game.

It would not make it any less absurd for Smash to feature two characters with the exact same physical abilities and appearance (barring color scheme).

Ness & Lucas are very similar.

 

[TheOthin]

Ness & Lucas are very similar.

Two characters being fairly similar is not even in the same world as what I'm talking about.

 

[Bingoshi]

It's not a matter of one franchise over another. It's a matter of characters over characters. I'd rather have Ridley than Impa than K.Rool than Dixie than any Koopaling than etc. I'd rather have Wonder Red than Mach Rider. Some characters/franchises don't deserve to be in the character roster, some do.

And who are you to say who "deserves" to be in the roster? Heck, I want Mach Rider over everyone you mentioned, but that changes nothing in the end. Mach Rider already is a cool and interesting character, and I'm sure he'd be very unique in smash. Just because you don't think so, doesn't mean he doesn't deserve a spot. I don't want Impa personally, but I won't say she doesn't deserve to be in the game.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Ness & Lucas are very similar.

Attack wise, it's true. But I'd take it bad if Sakurai decided to put Lucas as an alt now while giving Dr. Mario his own slot...
Again, I'm almost sure Lucas is definitely gone.

 

[Waluigi is too big]

I WANT DOC OVER MEWTWO

*Kinda* with you

 

[BindingBlade]

I'm more saddened by Lucas being gone now that I'm finally playing Earthbound, fantastic game.

 

[PlTe]

Attack wise, it's true. But I'd take it bad if Sakurai decided to put Lucas as an alt now while giving Dr. Mario his own slot...
Again, I'm almost sure Lucas is definitely gone.

Lucas I don't really mind being gone. They could give Ness his "unique" moves via customization.
Wolf I'm a little sad to see go. I could've seen Falco becoming an alt and Wolf being a second SF rep. I dunno.
Ice Climbers...why? Why?! COME ON!! ICE CLIMBERS NOO
Snake I could live with or without
Chorus Men I'd like to see, but I don't really expect at this point.

All in all, I hope this leak is fake, but it's probably real. Dammit.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

I'm more saddened by Lucas being gone now that I'm finally playing Earthbound, fantastic game.

More like play Mother 3, and you'll feel even worse for Lucas.

 

[Deleted member]

Lucas I don't really mind being gone. They could give Ness his "unique" moves via customization.

Good idea! I didn't know we could have customizable normal attacks! I thought customization only applied to specials!

Spoiler

90% of Lucas's normals are different from Ness's.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Good idea! I didn't know we could have customizable normal attacks! I thought customization only applied to specials!

Spoiler

90% of Lucas's normals are different from Ness's.

Plus, if they went that far to recreate his normal attacks, why wouldn't they make a CSP for him. That's why I feel bad for Lucas, Wolf, Snake and Ice Climbers if the leak turns out true

 

[8BitBlackMage]

Yes, I've played Uprising. It is a fantastic game.

It would not make it any less absurd for Smash to feature two characters with the exact same physical abilities and appearance (barring color scheme).

I don't mean to be tardy to this party, but from what i understand pit in the new game has a few new moves from the items that he uses in uprising, I mean I didn't finish all of uprising so i may not have a great say in this arguement, but there's no way he fights EXACTLY like pit does in that game, and even if he does, he could be like pit was from brawl, and pit could have his new moves in Sm4sh. I personally really don't like pit in brawl, but they're not the same character if made like that, and i'm not saying i know they are, but they could be made differently, especially with pit's new collection of moves.

 

[ncepulo]

Accounting for all of the stuff in this thread, I'm guessing it's fake. Ridley, Mewtwo, Bandana Dee, and the Ice Climbers. The qualities don't match up very well. The reluctance to show more content is also suspicious. Although, I must admit, it is very well done. If there is DLC, it COULD have cut characters from Melee and Brawl, but also Impa and Sceptile, who's games will be released after the Japanese release.

 

[TheOthin]

I don't mean to be tardy to this party, but from what i understand pit in the new game has a few new moves from the items that he uses in uprising, I mean I didn't finish all of uprising so i may not have a great say in this arguement, but there's no way he fights EXACTLY like pit does in that game, and even if he does, he could be like pit was from brawl, and pit could have his new moves in Sm4sh. I personally really don't like pit in brawl, but they're not the same character if made like that, and i'm not saying i know they are, but they could be made differently, especially with pit's new collection of moves.

There's a point in the story, as well as a multiplayer mode, where you can play as Dark Pit. Give him the same weapon you gave Pit and his movement, his speed, his attacks, everything will all be EXACTLY the same.

I guess Dark Pit could be the same as Pit but with different specials due to equipping different weapons? But. This is a game with customizable specials. Regular Pit can be the same as Pit but with different specials. It'd be so unnecessary.

 

[neohopeSTF]

There's a point in the story, as well as a multiplayer mode, where you can play as Dark Pit. Give him the same weapon you gave Pit and his movement, his speed, his attacks, everything will all be EXACTLY the same.

I guess Dark Pit could be the same as Pit but with different specials due to equipping different weapons? But. This is a game with customizable specials. Regular Pit can be the same as Pit but with different specials. It'd be so unnecessary.

Lucina exists so no character would be unnecessary

 

[Shariq]

Seeing that all this character talk is going on. I would like to say that the Ice Climbers getting cut is probably the worst. I never really cared for them but they were in both Melee and Brawl and they kinda felt like a staple of the Smash series. Would feel weird with them gone...

 

[jaytalks]

Yes, I've played Uprising. It is a fantastic game.

It would not make it any less absurd for Smash to feature two characters with the exact same physical abilities and appearance (barring color scheme).

I don't mean to be tardy to this party, but from what i understand pit in the new game has a few new moves from the items that he uses in uprising, I mean I didn't finish all of uprising so i may not have a great say in this arguement, but there's no way he fights EXACTLY like pit does in that game, and even if he does, he could be like pit was from brawl, and pit could have his new moves in Sm4sh. I personally really don't like pit in brawl, but they're not the same character if made like that, and i'm not saying i know they are, but they could be made differently, especially with pit's new collection of moves.

I think Dark Pit if he is in the game would use different weapons than Pit does. Dark Pit uses the Silver Bow as opposed to the light bow. I don't recall him use any specific Arm, but he could use the End-All Arm instead of the Upperdash Arm. And he could use the Boom Orbiters instead of the Guardian Orbitars.

 

[TheOthin]

Lucina exists so no character would be unnecessary

On top of having a different appearance, Lucina actually has different A attacks. You can't get those just by slapping on different customization options.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Seeing that all this character talk is going on. I would like to say that the Ice Climbers getting cut is probably the worst. I never really cared for them but they were in both Melee and Brawl and they kinda felt like a staple of the Smash series. Would feel weird with them gone...

Sadly, the Nintendo 3DS limitations prevented them from coming back.
That's one of the reason I blame the fact that there are two versions...
I don't intend to say that one version is inferior to the other, but that's the truth, last time Sakurai talked about the Ice Climbers, he mentioned technical difficulties putting them in.

 

[8BitBlackMage]

There's a point in the story, as well as a multiplayer mode, where you can play as Dark Pit. Give him the same weapon you gave Pit and his movement, his speed, his attacks, everything will all be EXACTLY the same.

I guess Dark Pit could be the same as Pit but with different specials due to equipping different weapons? But. This is a game with customizable specials. Regular Pit can be the same as Pit but with different specials. It'd be so unnecessary.

You have a good point here, and I agree that Pit makes more sense to have the equips than dark pit does, however if Dark Pit does make it in, I trust Sakurai to make him atleast somewhat different, as he has blown my mind before with characters...

Lucina exists so no character would be unnecessary

This is a point, and she may seem like an exact clone, but the dev team did talk about how she has a slight bit more speed than marth, and instead of the tip of her sword dealing more damage, the whole sword deals the same amount of damage, which does make a big difference.

 

[neohopeSTF]

On top of having a different appearance, Lucina actually has different A attacks. You can't get those just by slapping on different customization options.

She is literally Marth with long hair and a mask, and its not like they couldn't change the A attacks on Dark Pit

 

[8BitBlackMage]

She is literally Marth with long hair and a mask, and its not like they couldn't change the A attacks on Dark Pit

You forgot about the mark on her eye, that's also in sm4sh.

 

[4cast]

Well If Lucas is Gone Why Can't we just Import some of Lucas's Moves to Ness to Buff Up the character?

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Well If Lucas is Gone Why Can't we just Import some of Lucas's Moves to Ness to Buff Up the character?

Yeah, both characters use PK Freeze in their game. Ness having it is not a idea, as well as a different kind of PK fire, PK thunder etc...

 

[Shariq]

Sadly, the Nintendo 3DS limitations prevented them from coming back.
That's one of the reason I blame the fact that there are two versions...
I don't intend to say that one version is inferior to the other, but that's the truth, last time Sakurai talked about the Ice Climbers, he mentioned technical difficulties putting them in.

Yeah. And yet I remember there were people who said that the 3DS is more powerful and capable than the GameCube and some pushed it even further stating it might even surpass the Wii. I always knew that was wrong. But now I am getting off topic...

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, both characters use PK Freeze in their game. Ness having it is not a idea, as well as a different kind of PK fire, PK thunder etc...

Ness does not use PK Freeze, that would be Paula. Lucas doesn't even use PK Freeze in his game.

 

[neohopeSTF]

Its just that any arguement for Lucina being fine can be applied to Dr or Dark Pit

 

[8BitBlackMage]

Ness does not use PK Freeze, that would be Paula. Lucas doesn't even use PK Freeze in his game.

Yeah in both games the other PK/PSI user has Freeze don't they... Well, i mean Lucas and Ness don't learn PK Starstorm either, unless you name your favorite thing "Starstorm"

EDIT: i just noticed that in smash bros the story notes that they were both taught PK Starstorm by Kumatora and Poo

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Ness does not use PK Freeze, that would be Paula. Lucas doesn't even use PK Freeze in his game.

Oh, I was sure Paula, Poo and Ness could all use PK freeze in the game.

Nevermind then, that would just mean another original gameplay disappearing with Ivysaur, Squirtle, Snake and Ice Climbers...
The cuts this time would not be of clones but of original characters.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

Its just that any arguement for Lucina being fine can be applied to Dr or Dark Pit

Exactly.

It's why Lucina's revelation was a gateway for Sakurai to justify the rest of the clones he put into the game. Once we accepted that it's okay to have a 99% Marth clone in the game, we weren't liable to bat an eyelash at Dr. Mario or Dark Pit. It's why the guy uses Robin's inclusion and Captain Falcon's return to distract from Lucina's revelation. Seriously, the trailer starts, five seconds later, 'Lucina's in, guys!'.

Then not even two seconds later, 'CAPTAIN FALCON'S BACK YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH LOOK HOW AWESOME HE IS.'

Then not even ten seconds later, 'HOLY CRAP WHO'D HAVE EXPECTED ROBIN TO JOIN THE BATTLE THIS IS AMAZING!'

Gotta admit, the guy's smart. Either that or someone in marketing took a look at Lucina, cringed and said, 'There's got to be a way to soften this blow.'.

 

[8BitBlackMage]

Exactly.

It's why I said Lucina's revelation was a gateway for Sakurai to justify the rest of the clones he put into the game. Once we accepted that it's okay to have a 99% Marth clone in the game, we weren't liable to bat an eyelash at Dr. Mario or Dark Pit. It's why the guy uses Robin's inclusion and Captain Falcon's return to distraction from Lucina's revelation. Seriously, the trailer starts, five seconds later, 'Lucina's in, guys!'.

Then not even two seconds later, 'CAPTAIN FALCON'S BACK YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH LOOK HOW AWESOME HE IS.'

Then not even ten seconds later, 'HOLY CRAP WHO'D HAVE EXPECTED ROBIN TO JOIN THE BATTLE THIS IS AMAZING!'

Gotta admit, the guy's smart. Either that or someone in marketing took a look at Lucina, cringed and said, 'There's got to be a way to soften this blow.'.

I think Sakurai's just really good at blowing our minds.

 

[TheTuninator]

Eh, there's a difference between Lucina and Doc. Lucina needs to be a clone, not an alt, because she is a different character from Marth. She wouldn't work with Marth's personality or voice lines. It makes sense to just bump her to another roster slot if you're going to do unique VA and some unique animations for her. Same with Dark Pit. Doc, though? He works just fine as a Mario reskin plus maybe one or two reskinned effects. It's a weird choice to make him a full-fledged clone again.

As far as the complaints about Lucina, she was one of the main and most popular characters from a game that single-handedly saved the Fire Emblem series from indefinite hiatus. Similarities to Marth or not, she has every reason to be in, and lots of people were rooting for her.

 

[8BitBlackMage]

Eh, there's a difference between Lucina and Doc. Lucina needs to be a clone, not an alt, because she is a different character from Marth. She wouldn't work with Marth's personality or voice lines. It makes sense to just bump her to another roster slot if you're going to do unique VA and some unique animations for her. Same with Dark Pit. Doc, though? He works just fine as a Mario reskin plus maybe one or two reskinned effects. It's a weird choice to make him a full-fledged clone again.

As far as the complaints about Lucina, she was one of the main and most popular characters from a game that single-handedly saved the Fire Emblem series from indefinite hiatus. Similarities to Marth or not, she has every reason to be in, and lots of people were rooting for her.

I mean as a person who played a lot as Doc in Melee, he's considerably different, maybe not to someone who doesn't play him a lot, but his pills had a slightly different path, and he has less range on some of his attacks, as well as a strong knock back.

But you're right, it would be perfectly fine to just remake him as a skin, not a full slot, where as with Lucina it makes more sense to make into a new character... not a TON more, but it makes more sense due to the fact that she is a different character and mario is... well mario, the same guy in a doctor suit.

 

[Spazzy_D]

We can just import Lucas' moves to Ness as customs? Awesome! I didn't know you could customize 'A' moves!

Seriously, the specials are the moves that Lucas has that are MOST similar to Ness.

EDIT:

Didn't see this post before I made mine:

Good idea! I didn't know we could have customizable normal attacks! I thought customization only applied to specials!

Spoiler

90% of Lucas's normals are different from Ness's.

 

[Saltwater Gem]

No one else sees the absurdity that even though Lucas is already complete from Brawl and is a 2nd Mother rep... it makes sense that his moveset should be melted down and his scraps given to Ness... but they put in the work to 'Mario in white coat' (and a 7-9th rep?).

 

[LeeYawshee]

Eh, there's a difference between Lucina and Doc. Lucina needs to be a clone, not an alt, because she is a different character from Marth. She wouldn't work with Marth's personality or voice lines. It makes sense to just bump her to another roster slot if you're going to do unique VA and some unique animations for her. Same with Dark Pit. Doc, though? He works just fine as a Mario reskin plus maybe one or two reskinned effects. It's a weird choice to make him a full-fledged clone again.

As far as the complaints about Lucina, she was one of the main and most popular characters from a game that single-handedly saved the Fire Emblem series from indefinite hiatus. Similarities to Marth or not, she has every reason to be in, and lots of people were rooting for her.

Male WiiFit Trainer and female Wii Fit Trainer have different voices. Sakurai hints that some characters will get costumes that aren't them with saying that Lucina was originally an an alt costume.

Also, Doctor Mario could have Mario Tornado and Drill Kick as his down special and down aerial respectively since it makes no sense for him to have F.L.U.D.D.

 

[TheOthin]

She is literally Marth with long hair and a mask, and its not like they couldn't change the A attacks on Dark Pit

Given that they fight the exact same way except for weapon effects, what would be different about Dark Pit's attacks? Would he have a sweet spot on his blades? That wouldn't even make sense.

Its just that any arguement for Lucina being fine can be applied to Dr or Dark Pit

Even if they WERE the same, most of the original arguments for Lucina from what I remember revolved around her being the last character added to an already-completed roster - just a tiny side bonus. Adding more and more characters along the same vein makes it a lot less believable that they're just bonuses and wouldn't take away from more worthwhile characters. You'd think that with three of them combined, especially if Dr. Mario and Dark Pit were to have more complex differences than a lack of sweet spot, they could put all that work together and at least have the time for one more distinct but still somewhat derivative character like Lucas or Wolf, which would obviously be preferable.

 

[Deleted member]

No one else sees the absurdity that even though Lucas is already complete from Brawl and is a 2nd Mother rep... it makes sense that his moveset should be melted down and his scraps given to Ness... but they put in the work to 'Mario in white coat' (and a 7-9th rep?).

The issue is that due to Lucas's being mostly unique from Ness, he would require far more work than Dr. Mario. If all the clones in this game are ascended costumes, then they would take up next to no development time. If this turns out to be true, then sadly, it seems Lucas was never planned to be playable...

 

[8BitBlackMage]

Male WiiFit Trainer and female Wii Fit Trainer have different voices. Sakurai hints that some characters will get costumes that aren't them with saying that Lucina was originally an an alt costume.

Also, Doctor Mario could have Mario Tornado and Drill Kick as his down special and down aerial respectively since it makes no sense for him to have F.L.U.D.D.

I was originally going to make a point about the other gender changeable characters, but to me Lucina feels like a different character because she has a whole different personality, and i know robin's/Villager's can change depending on how you played, but all the characters that can be gender swapped are characters that only really change small parts of the game, where as Lucina and Marth are from two completely different games, and all three of the multi gender characters both male and female are from the same game.

 

[Spazzy_D]

The issue is that due to Lucas's being mostly unique from Ness, he would require far more work than Dr. Mario. If all the clones in this game are ascended costumes, then they would take up next to no development time. If this turns out to be true, then sadly, it seems Lucas was never planned to be playable...

Why will people fight tooth and nail when it comes to Wolf being unique from Fox but everyone assumes that Lucas was basically Ness' Falco? Did no one else actually play as both Ness and Lucas?

 

[Deleted member]

Why will people fight tooth and nail when it comes to Wolf being unique from Fox but everyone assumes that Lucas was basically Ness' Falco? Did no one else actually play as both Ness and Lucas?

I have no idea. I used to main both of them, and it really does make me sad that most assume Lucas is "just a clone."