Potential Alternative Character Slots / Palette Swaps / Clones

Diddy Kong

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#1
As the title says, this thread is all about discussing what potential alternative character slots we might get in Smash Switch. Think the Koopalings, Alm, and even likes of Lucina and Dark Pit. Dr.Mario-like clones can be discussed in here as well but are not the main focus.

I think it was neat about Sm4sh that we had quite a lot of these, but they where not used to their full potential. Sure in some cases there was just a swap of gender, but even that was a nice touch. It still took voice clips and modelling work, so it's still nice that they took that extra time considering it's lukewarm reception.

I have quite a lot of ideas for these alternative character slots, and potential clones. Combined with Custom Moves, it can make a character who's old and establised get a total new playstyle, almost a semi-clone. Which I think is awesome potential and could give us about 10 characters more to the roster, or at least the satisfaction of having 10~ new (clone) characters.

And there's quite a lot of popular characters to work with as well. And it really helps to add in a lot of new characters from franchises who are not very likely to get an all togheter new addition. So it really kills even more than 2 birds in one stone I feel.

Now for the actual characters... I'll post my ideas first, and then use this OP to measure the most popular of ideas as this thread grows.

:4fox:/:4falco:: Slippy Toad / Peppy Hare



Star Fox Zero is again, another Star Fox 64 remake and I guess that's what this franchise is gonna be all remembered about for eternity. So Peppy Hare and Slippy Toad thus become more likely. James McCloud can also be mentoined but he's far less important. If Fox and Falco are of similar builds, I could see Slippy as a Falco alternative swap easily, especially since frogs are also well known of jumping high. Peppy Hare in just younger years could be somewhat more like Fox. I think this is a far more likely scenario than StarFox getting a new character. (R.I.P. Krystal :sadeyes:) But of course, we need Wolf back first. :wolf:

:4sheik:: Impa



Let's start this of by saying that this isn't the only way Impa can be included, and it's definitely not the number one idea for her inclusion for me. She has a lot of potential, but seeing Impa isn't really present in all Zelda games and isn't always a young warrior but also an old woman she isn't a safe pick.

Impa as a Sheik alternative could work with both her Ocarina of Time and Skyward Sword designs and both would make sense as such a character swap. OOT Impa due to the very fact that she's the one who trained Zelda to be Sheik. And Skyward Sword Impa due to her importance in the timeline, and the fact we MIGHT just one day get Skyward Sword HD.

There's also the possibilty of Impa getting her own slot as a Hyrule Warriors character, cause that Impa would be far more unique than the others. But unfortunately, I don't think it's alltogheter likely. Hyrule Warriors was a hit though, and a fighting game, and Impa was quite important in it. I'll just mentoin it here to show how flexible of a character Impa actually is.

Also, outside of maybe Midna, I don't see any other Zelda character to be a likely candidate same with StarFox's roster. So these are a good way to compensate for the lack of a true newcomer.

:4metaknight:: Galacta Knight



I'll admit, I know next to nothing about this character. I do know however, that outside of Bandana Dee there isn't really anything from the Kirby series that's likely to be included. Which is a shame, but Galacta Knight could be an alternative choice. His sword / lance thing should be a little tweaked cause it looks longer than Meta Knight's sword, and they might have to ditch the shield, but otherwise I think it's a good idea.

If nothing else, make him a Boss type character based on Meta Knight's basic moveset.

:4marth:: Alm



Yes Alm might also have distinct abilities from Marth, but he's the very first Fire Emblem Lord to really be based of Marth's basic design so that's a nice throwback. FE2 gets it's remake, and since Chrom wasn't considered "special enough", why would Alm?

Not only Alm could get included in this way, other Lords also could be an alternative character to Marth, like Seliph, Leif or even the likes of Eliwood.

Moving on:

:4lucina:: Chrom



I suppose Chrom can get his chance this time? Getting knocked out by Captain Falcon before the events of Smash 4 was laughable, and actually a good choice made by Sakurai. However, if Lucina gets a few tweaks from Marth to differenciate her a little, that could open a way for Chrom to I guess. They fight exactly the same in Awakening after all.

Also, it seems he's became more popular since Awakening, and he's a playable character in Fire Emblem Warriors. If Smash Switch is a direct port, he becomes even more likely cause of that because he's got a near damn perfect model going on.

I also think he could work as a palette swap for Ike due to their builds... :4myfriends: Ike's alternative character also could be preferable if Lucina doesn't get any changes whatsoever, or doesn't even return.



:4peach:: Daisy


I don't want to waste too many words on this, but I guess Daisy is very popular. She even got a Mii costume, and has been Peach's first palette swap ever since Melee. She's hugely popular for some reason, and would work well with Peach's basic moveset.

Just replace anything with heart effects to a flowerly sort of effect and boom, there's Daisy.

I don't support her on any other way, but this is a good idea as far as alternative characters go. Far less exicted about her than just about any other potential alternative character however, but it works for her so she should be listed.

:4falcon:: Blood Falcon



Face it, there's literally no chance for another F-Zero character ever. So we might as well use this, as it was handed to us and forced on us much like Peach's Daisy costume.

So that's just to give you a fair share of ideas what I had personally. I'll record the total number of characters suggested under this post if this thread becomes lively. As a general rule however, only use characters from the same series as alternative characters.
 

Troykv

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#2
I think it would be cool to see a color (or even a full character swap) based on Alm.
 

Guybrush20X6

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#3
One thing I want if or Alph :4alph: to be spun off into his own character with Shield Breaking Rock Pikmin.

One neat Semi-clone idea, Mimiku. I could imagine him copying Pikachu's moves, using shadow powers to compensate for it's lack of agility.
 

Arcadenik

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#6
As in, the only type?

Would be cool to have a character who's whole playstyle is "**** to your shields".
Precisely. And it could make Alph heavier and slower than Olimar so that would make Alph play differently from Olimar even if they both have the same A and B moves.
 

Guybrush20X6

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#7
Precisely. And it could make Alph heavier and slower than Olimar so that would make Alph play differently from Olimar even if they both have the same A and B moves.
Ah, so Alph would be the specialist to Olimar's micromanagement course 101.

Some minor animation tweaks to suit throwing rock shaped carrot people than normal carrot people and that'd be gold.
 

Arcadenik

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#8
Ah, so Alph would be the specialist to Olimar's micromanagement course 101.

Some minor animation tweaks to suit throwing rock shaped carrot people than normal carrot people and that'd be gold.
I think that Alph's Rock Pikmin could function similarly to Olimar's Purple Pikmin. Maybe just take Olimar's Purple Pikmin and replace the Purple Pikmin model for the Rock Pikmin model and give it to Alph.
 

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#9
One popular alt costume in the Mods is Metal Sonic, with a unique running animation. Wonder if that would count as enough for a full character.
 

ErenJager

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#14
I could probably think of a bunch, however the two that I want to see most, which I think are the most deserving because they've been around forever... are..

Dark Link and Blood Falcon

I would like to see these palate swaps get the Alph treatment, but be more cosmetically fleshed out.
Perhaps dark flames to the falcon punch and the final smash vehicle being Blood Falcon's racer.
Everything's still mechanically the same, just cosmetic fleshed out changes...
 

Luminario

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#18
Celica clone for Robin where she gets hurt slightly using her specials (not jab though) instead of having durability. Remove the Levin sword and amp up her smash and aerial attacks and voila~ Celica is in the game with little effort.
BotW/OoT alts for the Zelda characters, Civilian outfit for ZSSamus, Brittany alt for Olimar/Alph, ACTUAL Fire Peach alt with the ponytail, Triforce Heroes alt for Toon Link (Zelda Dress, Sword Suit, Cheer Outfit, Lucky Loungewear etc), and tons more palette swaps in general. Also loving the idea of Impa and Galacta Knight alts.
 

Staarih

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#19
I may be a minority here, but I'd rather not have actual, individual characters as palette swaps. Except for female/male counterparts or, well, the Koopalings. I just feel potential is lost if a character is limited to the movepool of another character, no matter how same they are. So in a way I accept the likes of Dark Pit and Lucina as separate characters (and would like Alph to be upgraded into one as well), I just wish they weren't direct clones... though in this situation it makes sense as they were last minute decisions. But yeah, something like Daisy on Peach or Impa on Sheik (two popular choices) just seem like a waste as they could be more unique.

Color swaps/costumes based on other characters is all fine though. Just like we have Daisy colors for Peach, Dark Samus for Samus etc, without them actually being the characters. Now this I wish could be expanded more, like Outset Link for Toon Link, Cosmic Rosalina, OoT, TP and SS looks for Link, Zelda and whatnot.
 

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#20
On the topic of Toon Link, there's also the possibility of Toon Zelda as she was apparently in development for Brawl. I'm not sure how that would work though as Toon Link's thing is being lighter and faster than Adult Link and Zelda is already a darn light character.
 
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#21
On the topic of Toon Link, there's also the possibility of Toon Zelda as she was apparently in development for Brawl. I'm not sure how that would work though as Toon Link's thing is being lighter and faster than Adult Link and Zelda is already a darn light character.
They'd probably make Zelda a bit heavier. Toon Link is a faster, more agile version of Link that relies more on his sword than his more detailed counterpart (particularly due to his stubbier legs) so I'd imagine Toon Zelda would have more or less the same idea going with her counterpart. Relying more on magic attacks and racking up damage than kicking around due to her shorter legs.
 
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Sharkarat

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#22
I may be a minority here, but I'd rather not have actual, individual characters as palette swaps. Except for female/male counterparts or, well, the Koopalings. I just feel potential is lost if a character is limited to the movepool of another character, no matter how same they are. So in a way I accept the likes of Dark Pit and Lucina as separate characters (and would like Alph to be upgraded into one as well), I just wish they weren't direct clones... though in this situation it makes sense as they were last minute decisions. But yeah, something like Daisy on Peach or Impa on Sheik (two popular choices) just seem like a waste as they could be more unique.
On the other hand I don't think some characters would have a chance of getting in as anything other than a clone.
Dark Pit for the clearest example, he's just not important and unique on the level where you would plan to add him with unique moveset. Had we got an unique Kid Icarus Newcomer it probably wouldn't be dark pit it would be Medusa/Viridi or someting. There's a reason Robin was the non-Clone FE Newcomer, he/she's just more important and unique.
And I just think Daisy is in a similar boat, she's not a priority Mario series character, but a possibility of adding her as a clone/swap gives her pretty much a shortcut into Smash. Peach's Moveset would work pretty well on her if you just change some of the special effects (like hearts into petals).
Impa is slightly different in that i thinks she's a plausible contender for a zelda newcomer. But I would still be okay with swap/clone if that happened, because i want her playable.
So I overall doesn't agree that there much "lost potential", because the characters are pretty low potential in the first place. And this could be partially fixed by making custom moves a genuine part of the character design, and dedicate some of the custom move to be extra fitting for the swaps.
In short most clones while could be more unique, probably wouldn't be added more unique. And most suggestions are still miles better than the awkwardness of Falcondorf.
 

Argos

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#28
I'm honestly surprised we don't have more of these, tbqh, especially during the DLC phase. Not just because they'd be cool, but because fighting games in general seem to thrive on this kind of costume DLC. Maybe they don't want to be seen as "relegating" certain characters to alts, or something? Some of the most obvious ones I can think of (Ms. Pac-Man, Metal Sonic) run into third party issues, obviously. It can't be a coincidence that the alts for Pac-Man and Sonic are so similar, I'm sure there's something in the contract specifying how the character is portrayed.

For someone who knows more about early Fire Emblem titles than I do, do any of the lords stand out as being easily adapted into Marth/Ike/Roy alts? That seems the way to go for me to have a broader range of representation without "wasting slots" or whatever.
 
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#29
I'm honestly surprised we don't have more of these, tbqh, especially during the DLC phase. Not just because they'd be cool, but because fighting games in general seem to thrive on this kind of costume DLC. Maybe they don't want to be seen as "relegating" certain characters to alts, or something? Some of the most obvious ones I can think of (Ms. Pac-Man, Metal Sonic) run into third party issues, obviously. It can't be a coincidence that the alts for Pac-Man and Sonic are so similar, I'm sure there's something in the contract specifying how the character is portrayed.

For someone who knows more about early Fire Emblem titles than I do, do any of the lords stand out as being easily adapted into Marth/Ike/Roy alts? That seems the way to go for me to have a broader range of representation without "wasting slots" or whatever.
That is true, considering how easy it is to include additional costume slots in Smash 4 through modding, I guess they probably felt they had more creative freedom for making additional costumes for the Mii fighters or something (And not having to pay any voice actors for any additional alt characters and whatnot.)

And some people would have probably complained if their favourite character was only confirmed as a cosmetic change for an existing character and all....(But then again, that probably would have been seen more favorably then what they did with the Mii Fighter costumes)
 
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Luminario

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#30
That is true, considering how easy it is to include additional costume slots in Smash 4 through modding, I guess they probably felt they had more creative freedom for making additional costumes for the Mii fighters or something (And not having to pay any voice actors for any additional alt characters and whatnot.)

And some people would have probably complained if their favourite character was only confirmed as a cosmetic change for an existing character and all....(But then again, that probably would have been seen more favorably then what they did with the Mii Fighter costumes)
I'd say voice actors for DLC alts would have paid for themselves pretty quickly. They could have easily ripped the voice acting from the games they were from or even just had different outfits for the same characters, like simple alts for the Zelda series or FE series while keeping the voices the same. There were so many choices that would have taken barely any time to create and implement I still don't understand why they didn't.
 

Kirbeh

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#31
Similar to what Staarih already said, I'd prefer if alt characters were kept to a minimum. It's perfectly fine with gender swaps like WFT, Robin, and Corrin because they're essentially the same character. It works with the Koopalings and Alph because the focus of their design is on the Clown Kart and Pikmin respectively as opposed to whoever pilots/commands them. And even with Alph, I'd honestly prefer if we'd gotten him as a clone similar to DP and Lucina like Sakurai had intended before demoting him back to a costume.

Perhaps I'm in the minority with this, but I'd rather have more clones/semi clones over alternate character skins. If there isn't enough time for them, then I'm fine with leaving them out altogether (maybe throw in a trophy though.)

When it comes to skins/costumes/palettes, I'd like to see more actual costumes. The references made with a lot of the color choices are great, but aside from that they've kind of dropped the ball in the costume department.

Again, I'm not entirely opposed to the idea, but I think it should be used sparingly. A lot of the examples on here, at least to me, would feel out of place. Sure you could fit Slippy/Peppy over Fox/Falco, or >insert lord< over Marth in terms of models that match proportions wise and all that, but it's adding more characters for the sake of it without taking into consideration whether it'd really make a good match. Yes you could argue that there have been plenty of questionable choices already that don't properly represent a character (*cough* Falcondorf), but why add to it then?

tl;dr - I'd rather have less characters/costumes with more put into them, than just have more characters as costumes because I really want to see "x" in the game.
 

Kirbeh

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#33
I really wish that Dark Pit isn't a full clone of Pit. It would be nice if Pit kept his old moveset from Brawl while Dark Pit gets his SSB4 moveset.

They would have had different Up+B, Side+B, and Down+B in addition to different B and Final Smash.
Given the circumstances during the development of the 3 last minute clones, it's kind of a given that they would have to be full on clones. That being said I would like to see them be differentiated more should they return in the future.

I honestly think the moveset Pit has now is loads better than his Brawl incarnation. I'd rather we keep Pit as he is and instead just give Dark Pit some different weapons. Stuff like the Silver Bow and the Gift of Flight should stay of course, but I think it'd be interesting to making his Staff a chargeable sniper projectile as a Down B instead of a FS, and maybe tweak a few of his normals. I'm kind of in the middle when it comes to the Electroshock Arm as I quite like the move, but if it were to be replaced with a different weapon to make him stand out from Pit a bit more, I'd be okay with it.

And all that being said, given that Dark Pit is a literal clone of Pit in the source material it honestly didn't bother me all too much. Though again if they could make a few tweaks to make him play a bit differently and feel more unique, I'd definitely be on board.
 

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#34
I really wish that Dark Pit isn't a full clone of Pit. It would be nice if Pit kept his old moveset from Brawl while Dark Pit gets his SSB4 moveset.

They would have had different Up+B, Side+B, and Down+B in addition to different B and Final Smash.
The main problem with Brawl Pit is that Wings of Icarus has a serious flaw; if it gets interrupted in any way, Pit loses his only means of recovery if all of his mid-air jumps are used up.

Power of Flight is a huge improvement, since Pit can reuse it if it gets interrupted.
 

Arcadenik

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#35
The main problem with Brawl Pit is that Wings of Icarus has a serious flaw; if it gets interrupted in any way, Pit loses his only means of recovery if all of his mid-air jumps are used up.

Power of Flight is a huge improvement, since Pit can reuse it if it gets interrupted.
Maybe they should allow Pit to reuse his old Up+B after being interrupted...
 

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#36
Some characters have too much potential and are just different enough that I would rather have no alt and no character than an alt....

Because someone like Impa glued onto Shiek or Dark Samus on Samus is so much of a waste that it woudl annoy the heck out of me. Now a recolour like how Samus has a Dark Samus look ect are fine.


Thats my 2 cents.
I really wish that Dark Pit isn't a full clone of Pit. It would be nice if Pit kept his old moveset from Brawl while Dark Pit gets his SSB4 moveset.

They would have had different Up+B, Side+B, and Down+B in addition to different B and Final Smash.
nah I think Pit keeps his current, Dark Pit gets to use more stuff from Uprising and becomes luigified.
 
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Pippin (Peregrin Took)

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#37
Custom moves are probably coming back to be incorporated with the amiibo, but I wouldn't mind seeing some of them be used to make more clone characters.

I could see Dragonite over Charizard with at least dragon rush over flare blitz.

Maybe Phantom Ganon over Ganondorf with Warlock Blade and Wizard's Dropkick, etc.

And to get Palutena's customs in even in customs off mode would be awesome :)
 

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#39
Since Sakurai seemed interested in including the clone characters when the first attempt at costume swaps with different properties failed, I kinda support this idea the most outside of individual characters. Multiple characters could be included at the same time while still having separate properties with a stupid amount of possibilities following this trend (Ness and Lucas having swaps with other psychic users, Olimar has more Pikmin users than Alph, Samus has other bounty hunters from Prime Hunters, Fire Emblem can have their archetypes have a flagship character with others being swapped out, Diddy can have Dixie and Cranky, Falcon can have Blood Falcon and Black Shadow, Mr. L can be represented under OG Luigi (lol), Daisy might have a better chance in being included past a color change, Viridi can be a swap of Palutena (begrudgingly) like some ot the other immortal beings in the franchise, Star Fox characters would be represented past Fox and Falco again (unless Wolf returns or Krystal is accepted), Yoshi would have Birdo, Bowser would get the fancy clothes from Mario Odyssey (lol), Zelda characters would have their numerous forms (so Ganon could get his magic again), the Pokemon Trainers would then have a role of including the stupid amount of Pokemon requests that come up, etc.). This doesn't even go over the third party character possibilities.

Did not intend to rant this long, but this idea would have numerous applications assuming that the future engine built supports this or even allows for the code to be modified enough to support it.
 
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