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Legend of Zelda Post-Apocalyptic Termina

Spire

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Well remember the whole parallel timeline rule. Whenever you travel in time, it's really in a parallel timeline to where you came from, so essentially, what happens in Termina (whether it's a future Hyrule or not) is happening in a totally alternate timeline altogether, if it concerns time travel. If we're considering Termina to be a future Hyrule, then it exists in a third timeline separate from the Child and Adult timelines. To ease it, we would name it the Termina timeline. I'll chart it:
------MM
------/TP
OoT{
------WW/PH - ST

Or something like that.
 

AngryMoblyn1881

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Well remember the whole parallel timeline rule. Whenever you travel in time, it's really in a parallel timeline to where you came from, so essentially, what happens in Termina (whether it's a future Hyrule or not) is happening in a totally alternate timeline altogether, if it concerns time travel. If we're considering Termina to be a future Hyrule, then it exists in a third timeline separate from the Child and Adult timelines. To ease it, we would name it the Termina timeline. I'll chart it:
------MM
------/TP
OoT{
------WW/PH - ST

Or something like that.
Well I dont think it MUST be in a different timeline. Otherwise how could it change TP hyrules past?
 

Spire

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Well I dont think it MUST be in a different timeline. Otherwise how could it change TP hyrules past?
How was TP Hyrule's past changed? There is no evidence. Considering Termina to be future Hyrule, this is how I see it:
  1. OoT happened, and Link was sent back to being a kid. He left in search of Navi...
  2. Link time traveled to the "future" Hyrule, Termina, but inadvertently did so in a parallel timeline. MM happens, and afterwards, Link travels back to Hyrule, warping back in time to his own time and timeline. It's like MM never happened.
  3. 100 or so years later, TP happens in Hyrule, affected only by what Link, the Hero of Time did after MM (which if speculation is right, married Malon and founded Ordon village and/or became a Knight of Hyrule, hence the Hero's Shade).
 

Phantom7

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How was TP Hyrule's past changed? There is no evidence. Considering Termina to be future Hyrule, this is how I see it:
  1. OoT happened, and Link was sent back to being a kid. He left in search of Navi...
  2. Link time traveled to the "future" Hyrule, Termina, but inadvertently did so in a parallel timeline. MM happens, and afterwards, Link travels back to Hyrule, warping back in time to his own time and timeline. It's like MM never happened.
  3. 100 or so years later, TP happens in Hyrule, affected only by what Link, the Hero of Time did after MM (which if speculation is right, married Malon and founded Ordon village and/or became a Knight of Hyrule, hence the Hero's Shade).
Eh, to me, this idea is a huge stretch. We can infer from the beginning of MM that Link travels to a parallel world, rather than traveling through time, as MM appears as a mirror world rather than Hyrule's future. It seems that the events that took place affected Hyrule as well, for example: awakening the 4 Giants and the 4 Light Spirits, and saving Hyrule from being doomed, as opposed to the adult timeline, where Hyrule flooded and supposedly the moon crashed into Termina.
 

Spire

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Eh, to me, this idea is a huge stretch. We can infer from the beginning of MM that Link travels to a parallel world, rather than traveling through time, as MM appears as a mirror world rather than Hyrule's future. It seems that the events that took place affected Hyrule as well, for example: awakening the 4 Giants and the 4 Light Spirits, and saving Hyrule from being doomed, as opposed to the adult timeline, where Hyrule flooded and supposedly the moon crashed into Termina.
Exactly. I'm not supporting the theory that Termina is a future Hyrule at all. I've been trying to debunk it.

I do love how the four Giants are the counterparts to the four Light Spirits though.
 

Ganonsburg

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Wait. Spire, are you saying that in OoT, when Link went traveled 7 years forward, that he traveled to a different timeline? As in, it had always been a different timeline? I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it (in fact, it makes more sense, I think), I just want to be clear. I had been thinking previously that it was the same timeline up until Zelda sent Link back, at which point the two timelines divorced.

But now that it's been mentioned, I like the first one rather than the latter. But if Termina is indeed Hyrule's future (which I don't know what to think of...the way the maps connect is rather nice, but the evidence is lacking), there's a lot to re-think. It means the HMS just screwed over/was trying to screw over the CT (which is the younger land, so it has to live with the MM's evil) while trying to save Termina. Unless the HMS was going to send it to the Twilit Realm, which still doesn't make much sense (why give them what they [theoretically] wanted?).

And, on top of that, if Termina is Hyrule's future...that means we have four possible Terminas:
1) The Termina of MM.
2) The Termina that comes after TP sometime
3) The Termina that comes after WW/PH/ST sometime.
4) The Termina through the Lost Woods portal (MM Termina), but on the Adult Timeline. The (primary) subject of this thread.

Granted, they may not all end up being named Termina. 2 and 4 would be, because they were the MM Termina. But 1 and 3 may end up after different events, which may have caused Hyrule not to be doomed but to be prosperous. And all this is assuming that each timeline is a parallel timeline, rather than 2 and 4 being parts of 1 and 3.

Dang, I just had a bunch of thoughts, but I can't remember them. But all this is making my head spin. In short, are we taking the possibility of Termina=Future Hyrule seriously?

:034:
 

Spire

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When Link awakens as an adult in OoT, it is in the same timeline. He does not travel through time, rather being suspended in the Sacred Realm for 7 years as Hyrule progresses through invasion, war, and corruption. The timeline split is indeed when Zelda sends him back to being a child.

For the record, I still do not consider Termina to be a future Hyrule. It is an alternate version of Hyrule's laws where the concept of three is bent into four, and as such, everything developed differently. Imagine another parallel world based on the concept of five. It would be like Hyrule and Termina, but be its own, having developed around five, what that meant for the land, etc. The Triforce was meant to be a relic for Hyrule to relish, hence why everything is based around three in that world. In Termina, the world is built around four, the compass, technology expanding outwards in all directions. The Triforce is shunned in this world because it is three, it is lesser, and it is not fit for the structural direction that Termina faces.

To stretch even further, the Sacred Realm could perhaps be the parallel world built around the concept of one. It is the realm where the Triforce sits, and it is eternal.
 

AngryMoblyn1881

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How was TP Hyrule's past changed? There is no evidence. Considering Termina to be future Hyrule, this is how I see it:
  1. OoT happened, and Link was sent back to being a kid. He left in search of Navi...
  2. Link time traveled to the "future" Hyrule, Termina, but inadvertently did so in a parallel timeline. MM happens, and afterwards, Link travels back to Hyrule, warping back in time to his own time and timeline. It's like MM never happened.
  3. 100 or so years later, TP happens in Hyrule, affected only by what Link, the Hero of Time did after MM (which if speculation is right, married Malon and founded Ordon village and/or became a Knight of Hyrule, hence the Hero's Shade).
No I meant to say, because of the events of MM, TP should have been more like ALTTP (other side of the timeline). IF he never went to termina.

Another thing I would like to point out is that, on the adult timeline things seem to be technologically progressing yes? For example: they went from the medevil type concept to boat, and then to train. But if you look on the side of the timeline (child) Things seem to still be medevil. Its almost like because link terminated the apocalypse of termina. Termina ceases to exist in the future. Or hyrule is stuck in a medevil limbo of sorts:dizzy:.
 

Spire

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No I meant to say, because of the events of MM, TP should have been more like ALTTP (other side of the timeline). IF he never went to termina.

Another thing I would like to point out is that, on the adult timeline things seem to be technologically progressing yes? For example: they went from the medevil type concept to boat, and then to train. But if you look on the side of the timeline (child) Things seem to still be medevil. Its almost like because link terminated the apocalypse of termina. Termina ceases to exist in the future. Or hyrule is stuck in a medevil limbo of sorts:dizzy:.
So your concept is: so long as Termina exists, then Hyrule is hindered technologically? I suppose from a certain point of view, it does make sense. It's an issue of balance, really.

You also say that because MM happened, Hyrule shaped up to be like TP (more technologically advanced), whereas it should have gone onward into ALttP (more medieval). I like to see TP as a retcon of ALttP. Could it be that the Child Timeline splits in two: the one that includes MM goes into TP and the one that doesn't, into ALttP?

-------------ALttP
------MM - TP
OoT{
------WW/PH - ST
 

AngryMoblyn1881

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So your concept is: so long as Termina exists, then Hyrule is hindered technologically? I suppose from a certain point of view, it does make sense. It's an issue of balance, really.

You also say that because MM happened, Hyrule shaped up to be like TP

I did not say this , I believe it was phantom I was merely agreeing.

I agree with lanky_gunner on this one. It could be so much easyer, for example I really dont see the point y there should be once again ANOTHER time paradox. It is just a parralel would . therefore all the things we have been talking about weather hyrule is terminas past or not. It is a parallel world, And I think we have forgotten about this key topic.
 

Spire

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No, we have evidenced that real time travel splits timelines in two. Dropping/drawing the Master Sword in the Pedestal of Time simply locks Link in the Sacred Realm 7 years forward or backward. It works differently than what Zelda did at the end of OoT. If you are suggesting that Termina is a future Hyrule, then that would imply that traveling to it is time traveling, interdimensional or not. Thus, splitting the timeline again. I do not want to believe that traveling to Termina split the timeline again, so I do not believe it is a future Hyrule. Termina is simply an alternate land that shares many traits with its sister Hyrule.
 

Ganonsburg

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DANG IT. I just lost a nice big post. Oh well. It was just about the number-alternate-realms theory. Basically, I like the idea but I don't know if it's worth a lot of thought.

1- Sacred Realm- 1 well-known inhabitant (Rauru); the full Triforce
2- Twilit Realm- 2 well-known inhabitants (Midna and Zant); two Sols; four pieces of the Fused Shadows (two is closely related to four, i.e. 2 squared, 2 x 2, 2 + 2)
3- Hyrule- Multiple groups of well-known entities/inhabitants, most of them are in groups of three (goddesses, Ganon + Zelda + Link); three pieces of the Triforce
4- Termina- The four giants, four dungeons, four parts of the clock, so on.

Interesting to note though is that 1 is a holy number, as it is a number of wholeness, and is fitting for the Sacred Realm. With the Sacred Realm being the closest dimension to the gods/goddesses, it makes sense that it gets the holiest number. Three is another number that is considered lucky or sacred, and as Hyrule is the next closest to the gods, Hyrule is based around three.

Now the Twilit realm seems to be based on two. There's not much to support it other than what I listed. But two is between one and two, so it's not quite holy nor sacred nor lucky. While they are not closer to either despite 2 being closer to 1 than 3 is, it shows the mentality of the Dark Interlopers. They wanted to be more powerful than Hyrule, but now they're stuck in a limbo between where they were and where they wanted to be, but they are actually farther from the power they wanted.

Termina though is on the other side of Hyrule. They don't want anything to do with the goddesses or the power they possess. They want their own power, so they make it themselves. There's a similarity between Termina and the Twilit Realm just as there's a similarity (relationship) between 2 and 4. Both want power, they both sought an evil power (and the two powers they sought look similar).

That's all I have for now. There's not much significance to the idea, but it's interesting.

:034:
 

AngryMoblyn1881

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No, we have evidenced that real time travel splits timelines in two. Dropping/drawing the Master Sword in the Pedestal of Time simply locks Link in the Sacred Realm 7 years forward or backward. It works differently than what Zelda did at the end of OoT. If you are suggesting that Termina is a future Hyrule, then that would imply that traveling to it is time traveling, interdimensional or not. Thus, splitting the timeline again. I do not want to believe that traveling to Termina split the timeline again, so I do not believe it is a future Hyrule. Termina is simply an alternate land that shares many traits with its sister Hyrule.
Ok I am beginning to belive that there would be a split time line once again now (making 3) so from there on out (MM being the starting point) TP would be a changed hyrule. And that would follow the going to termina timeline? or would a better name be nonapocalyptic timeline? I am choosing to continue beliveing the future hyrule theory until either one of us debunks it.:)

So the time line I follow would now have 5 (possably 6 if they are completely parallel with adut time line)different timelines we know of, yes? On the adult side there would be a separtate line for termina. On child side it would also be like that. Wich includes all the games on that side of the timeline. Another line for if he didnt stop the moon. (but that would just be a dead end for that timeline concidering there is now hero of time left on that line. Also, and finaly a line inwich link doesnt go into the forest looking for navi, therefore never going to termina.Wich would be the hyrule timeline of the child timeline.So What we have here is on the child timeline we have the hyrule chronicles missing. And on the adult side the link goes to termina chronicles missing.

How do you post timelines you have made your self on the site? I really need to know this in order for you to see what I am thinking
 

Spire

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Like images? I make them in Photoshop, upload to my photobucket account, then post in the
 

AngryMoblyn1881

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Yeah, you could upload to facebook then right click and copy the image address and put that in the tags. Don't link us to the actual facebook page.[/QUOTE]

ok here it is:

[IMG]http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b402/halohump899/TIMELINEOFMAJORA.jpg

Why does it not show?
 

Spire

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You copied the "Email & IM" link, not the Direct link. I fixed it for you.
 

AngryMoblyn1881

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You copied the "Email & IM" link, not the Direct link. I fixed it for you.
Thanks.

It might not be that accurate because I was pretty tired last night. So if you or anyone else find problems with it I want to know :)

By the way, concidering this timeline. I was playing TP theother day (snowpeeak ruins) and it dawned on me, Where did all these new mountains come from?!? I only remember death mountain being a mountain in hyrule. So my only exponation would bounce back to this time line. Termina changed hyrule!! Thoughts?
 

Phantom7

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Thanks.

It might not be that accurate because I was pretty tired last night. So if you or anyone else find problems with it I want to know :)

By the way, concidering this timeline. I was playing TP theother day (snowpeeak ruins) and it dawned on me, Where did all these new mountains come from?!? I only remember death mountain being a mountain in hyrule. So my only exponation would bounce back to this time line. Termina changed hyrule!! Thoughts?
Hmmm, where was it that I mentioned that Hyrule in TP had a more similar physical map to Termina rather than OoT's Hyrule?

Could you perhaps explain why you placed the games in that particular order? I find it awfully confusing, and I don't see the logic behind it. Also, on the Child Timeline, you placed all of the Hyrule games in the Termina timeline, and there are just question marks all of the way down the Hyrule side, as if TP, FS, LoZ, and AoL all occurred in Termina.
 

AngryMoblyn1881

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Hmmm, where was it that I mentioned that Hyrule in TP had a more similar physical map to Termina rather than OoT's Hyrule?

Could you perhaps explain why you placed the games in that particular order? I find it awfully confusing, and I don't see the logic behind it. Also, on the Child Timeline, you placed all of the Hyrule games in the Termina timeline, and there are just question marks all of the way down the Hyrule side, as if TP, FS, LoZ, and AoL all occurred in Termina.
I put all the child timeline on termina`s side because, when link goes to termina and stops the moon apocalypse, this now alternates hyrule`s past presant and future to follow the timeline of what happened if he stopped the apocalypse. Wich he did. Where as on the other side of the timeline (adult) it follows the hylian timeline because he never stoped the moon in that timeline therefore everything stay as it should have been. so they didnt really occur in termina, the timeline simpaly follows up the events of link destroying the moon and link doesnt. hence the ???? every whare considering the fact we dont know what wouldof happened is he didnt save termina. I assume he would have donee the same events as in the adult timeline.

This also explains the fact why TP and ALTTP are so simaler, because one is how it should be (adult timeline) and one is messed up and kind of intertwined a bit with termina`s history(for example, instead of collecting 3 things to save hyrule and what not, there are 4 pieces to the fused shadow you must collect, much like the base of majoras mask).
 
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