Pokemon characters for SSB4

[SpaceJell0]

Squirtle's anime appearance set him up to be the character he is, all the spinny hydro pumping helped him become a fast character in brawl, although waterfall did kinda come from nowhere.. also the lack of skull bash :S (it was that line's exclusive back in the day). Squirtle at least has arms, his old signature headbutt, and has rapid spinning and his tail to work with.. Actually that's a fair bit when you think of it. Mudkip could be done, but it'd be a bigger stretch, and I don't see how he'd be useful (and I liek the guy too).

And yeah, I know the meme, and I'm aware of the popularity of Grovyle and Blaziken, but in a fighting game you have to look at move set viability, and I think a small change to other likable pokemon would add a lot more to smash. Though it's personal opinion; and either way I don't think it's very likely to have 2 pokémon trainers, Kanto is a lot more popular, and if another was added it'd only be Hoenn if a R/S remake was on the tables for fairly shortly after smash, and given X and Y coming just before it, I doubt that's happening.

I personally feel Gen 1 is over represented in Brawl with only one character, Lucario, being not from Gen 1 so I would love some Pokémon from other generations so they don't feel ignored in Smash as they are just as worthy as Gen 1

 

[Cheezey Bites]

I agree, it's Gen 1 heavy, but without becoming Pokémon heavy it's difficult: Pikachu's the mascot, Jigglypuff's part of Smash, and the first starters to mind are still charmander, bulbasaur and squirtle to the majority of players (I think Chespin, Fennekin and Froakie, atm, but it'll go back I'm sure). There are others I'd like to see (Plusle/Minun would work better imho for R/S reps, with alt skins for PCPichu and SEPichu for G/S), Lucario staying, maybe summik else; but Gen 1 is the realm of Pokémon stars, so they kinda have to be there...

 

[SpaceJell0]

I agree, it's Gen 1 heavy, but without becoming Pokémon heavy it's difficult: Pikachu's the mascot, Jigglypuff's part of Smash, and the first starters to mind are still charmander, bulbasaur and squirtle to the majority of players (I think Chespin, Fennekin and Froakie, atm, but it'll go back I'm sure). There are others I'd like to see (Plusle/Minun would work better imho for R/S reps, with alt skins for PCPichu and SEPichu for G/S), Lucario staying, maybe summik else; but Gen 1 is the realm of Pokémon stars, so they kinda have to be there...

I'm a little indifferent about Jigglypuff staying, I never cared or liked it. I just think some of the newer Pokémon deserve a spot rather than Nintendo basically feeding the scum known as genwunners. But you bring up some good points.

 

[Cheezey Bites]

I can't play any of the games pre-split anymore, they annoy me; so yeah, I don't want to pander to genwunners either, but I've gotta be reasonable. However, it has just occured to me that Hoenn Trainer could work as a DLC character if an R/S remake is made; release the DLC close to it's release and you're golden.. still doubt it, but it's a thought that could save the idea... Plus after my move set earlier I just want to beat people up with a Torchic

 

[SpaceJell0]

I can't play any of the games pre-split anymore, they annoy me; so yeah, I don't want to pander to genwunners either, but I've gotta be reasonable. However, it has just occured to me that Hoenn Trainer could work as a DLC character if an R/S remake is made; release the DLC close to it's release and you're golden.. still doubt it, but it's a thought that could save the idea... Plus after my move set earlier I just want to beat people up with a Torchic

That could very well work! Good discussion kind sir!

 

[jaytalks]

That would be terrible. What would Mudkip do? The N/S specials I can think of but what would he do for standard attacks? how would he play given he's light and slow? What would his recovery be?

Grovyle would work, kinda sheik like with bullet seed for Needle Storm, a more dash like Leaf Blade and Acrobatics (perhaps with a short glide) for recovery cover all his major moves, so it'd be cool to see.

As for Blaziken it'd be yet another fast fighter, giving him no defensive pokemon; he'd kinda work as a character with Sky Uppercut for recovery, Blaze kick as a side B (aimable up to 45 degrees below each side maybe?) and obvious normal moves, but that leaves the neutral special blank...


Overall I think if a Hoenn trainer happened Torchic/Marshtomp/Sceptile would make more sense in terms of moveset:

Torchic could play floaty (it's a bird) with multiple jumps (again, bird, flappy little wing puffs) and pecks and scratches for standard moves. The throws would be difficult, but the claws can hold things, with Pecking them to bits as the jab. The neutral special is obvious: Ember (little flames that continue to burn after use). Fire spin could be up B, as a slight recovery shooting him upwards? or bounce with less fire and a ground pound on fall?. The Side B is the hard one, with lots of options, sand attack (mashable longer range jab like?), mirror move (reflector), quick attack (space animals stylee); they all fit the move set, and could work in the game; it's hard, but I'd probs pick sand attack.

Marshtomp would be the heavy fighter, throwing out powerful attacks, even his projectiles. Powerful punches and kicks for standards, arms to grab, and some cool moves for specials: N: Water Gun; it's kinda a given for a water type, though I think in return Squirtle should get bubble to trip people. S: Mud Shot; a projectile that slows the hit target down and covers them in mud, helping you close distance and get powerful hits in. The recoveries the hard one; whirlpool perhaps, spinning upwards with it? I honestly don't know... The Up-B makes it hard, but it works a lot easier than mudkip.

Sceptile would be Grovyle above, but Sceptile instead.

It's still a push, but they at least all play differently, also different types at different stages makes it more interesting too, to stand alongside Kanto.


I'm gonna add my thoughts on other Gens too, just in cut down forms.
Johto: Chikorita/Quilava/Feraligatr

Defensive/Fast/Powerhouse​

Sinnoh: Piplup/Grotle/Infernape

Floaty/Defensive/Fast​

​

​

As for Unova Emboar makes the most sense for stage 3 (heavy), but I kinda like the idea of Serperior wrapping people up with his grabs, being fast and grab happy. Samurott wouldn't really work I don't think; nothing for grabs..

If Emboar were stage 3 it'd follow that:
Oshawott/Servine/Emboar
ummm?/Fast/Powerhouse

If Serperior were stage 3:
Tepig/Dewott/Serperior
Defensive/Power?/Fast

Unova Trainer doesn't lend itself very well to smash bros.

I would be in favor of the Oshawott, Servine, Emboar combination, and give them roughly the same roles as the current pokrmon trainer. I am most in favor unova starters, as its my favorite generation besides the original.

I agree that the roster is too gen 1 heavy at the moment. if they were to remove lucario and put in Mewtwo (New), I would be really disappointed.

 

[@tomic]

How about Whitney and her pain-in-the-ass Miltank? I'm sure she's quite familiar to many a Pokemon player for how she steamrolled their asses back in Gold/Silver.

Also she kind of makes sense as a second Trainer character since Jigglypuff's character could feasibly be placed in Whitney's team. This would reduce the work that would have to be done to include Whitney since one of her Pokemon will already be in the game anyway, so it's only two additional characters instead of 3. Something similar could be done with Cynthia/Lucario.

They'd have to really rework that Pokemon switching mechanic though, or people will probably be annoyed. It's an idea anyway.

 

[SpaceJell0]

How about Whitney and her pain-in-the-*** Miltank? I'm sure she's quite familiar to many a Pokemon player for how she steamrolled their ***** back in Gold/Silver.

Also she kind of makes sense as a second Trainer character since Jigglypuff's character could feasibly be placed in Whitney's team. This would reduce the work that would have to be done to include Whitney since one of her Pokemon will already be in the game anyway, so it's only two additional characters instead of 3. Something similar could be done with Cynthia/Lucario.

They'd have to really rework that Pokemon switching mechanic though, or people will probably be annoyed. It's an idea anyway.

I always got confused as to why Sakurai didn't add invincibility frames to the switching Pokémon, that would've helped a lot

 

[shinhed-echi]

I always got confused as to why Sakurai didn't add invincibility frames to the switching Pokémon, that would've helped a lot

That. Or Super Armor at the very least. For a game that's plagued with Super Armor moves.

(Wario, Dedede, Squirtle, Charizard, Snake, Sonic, DK, Olimar, etc)

 

[SpaceJell0]

Aren't those two the same thing essentially? xD

 

[IsmaR]

You still take damage during Super Armor. Invincibility negates all damage.

 

[SpaceJell0]

You still take damage during Super Armor. Invincibility negates all damage.

Ah ok, I essentially just see damage in Smash as knock back, got a bit confused xS

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I personally want Plusle and Minun, I'd like to see another character like the Ice Climbers, and they have a pretty big fanbase. (which doesn't surprise me, Plusle and Minun are so adorable)

If a Pokemon character were to be cut, I think it should be Lucario. I honestly didn't like him that much. (most of his attacks just had him blasting short ranged aura bursts in different directions will little difference in effect, and I didn't think his specials were that interesting either, save for his N-special, so I think he should be reworked or cut, one of the two)

If we're weren't going to get a new Pokemon rep and/or were going to have Lucario cut, Mewtwo should certainly return.

 

[Glaciacott]

My two cents on pokemon trainers:
- If any were to happen aside from Red, I feel like it'd be Gen 3(May) or 5, given the popularity of those sets. Both Blaziken and Mudkip became extremely popular pokemon, so that set would make sense. As for Unova, it's also rather popular and has introduced a lot of fans to the series.
For that one, I'd prefer a Snivy (fast, minor damage), Dewott (medium, combo-heavy) and Emboar (slow, powerful) set. Even though Oshawott is really one of the more popular Gen 5 characters.

- In terms of how to make the switch work, I think instead of forcing a switch, they should be an incentive. The thing with Pokemon is that it is very realitically possible, and it happens, that you go through the whole thing with your favorite pokemon (usually the starter) and just get other pokemon in case of fainting so you can revive the favorite. I cannot count how many young pokemon players have level 50-something Samurotts and a bunch of purrloins and lillipups warming the bench.
However, Pokemon veterans know that the strength lies in switching due to the possibility to exploit weaknesses and let Pokemon rest. The joy of Pokemon, especially in competitive battling, is in switching and knowing when to do so.
Given all this, I think that instead of stamina making you weaker as you progress and forcing a switch, thereby forcing you to use all of them, your damage percentage should be lowered when you switch your pokemon. Not completely down to zero, since then we'd have an OP situation, but enough of an amount that timing a good Pokemon switch could change the outcome of a match, and mastering all three and managing switching and damage actually gives you an edge.

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

I definitely think for Pokemon Trainer that Gen III would be the best way to go. Grovyle and Blaziken are both basically made for Brawl. I always imagine Blaziken a bit like Captain Falcon, Up+B would be Sky Uppercut obviously as that's a famous move associated with Blaziken, Down+B would have to be Blaze Kick, which is Blaziken's signature move.

Grovyle is very fast in the Pokemon games, so I imagine him in Brawl as one of those characters that jumps around all over the place really fast, light, amazing range with slashing moves (Leaf Blade would have to be one of its B moves), but probably not a heavy hitter.

How about Whitney and her pain-in-the-*** Miltank? I'm sure she's quite familiar to many a Pokemon player for how she steamrolled their ***** back in Gold/Silver.

Also she kind of makes sense as a second Trainer character since Jigglypuff's character could feasibly be placed in Whitney's team. This would reduce the work that would have to be done to include Whitney since one of her Pokemon will already be in the game anyway, so it's only two additional characters instead of 3. Something similar could be done with Cynthia/Lucario.




They'd have to really rework that Pokemon switching mechanic though, or people will probably be annoyed. It's an idea anyway.

Going on a bit of a tangent here, but I honestly never found Whitney that difficult in the games. Whatever team I use I seem to be fine with her. At that point you'll likely have 6 Pokemon maybe around level 15. In the 24 moves on your team, there'll no doubt be moves like Sand Attack, Growl, Leer/Tail Whip, Supersonic, PoisonPowder, Leech Seed, and maybe a Geodude or Onix, or a tank like Bayleef. There were other gym leaders I struggled more with, like Brock in Pokemon Yellow and Wattson in Gen III.

I've heard so many complaints about her though, I wonder what teams everybody else is using. I think for those people who just focus on training one Pokemon throughout the game probably struggle if they're only using a Quilava to battle her, but anybody with a balanced team of 6 should be fine (and I think that's how the game designers assume people play).

I agree she's quite famous though. Perhaps if she was in Brawl she could have a team of Miltank, Jigglypuff and Meowth (a very famous Normal-type Pokemon). They would have to change Jigglypuff's B move though, since Miltank needs to be the one with Rollout lol.

 

[Glaciacott]

I always choose Cyndaquil, and would gather a team featuring Togepi and no Geodude or Gastly. This is probably what always made Whitney such a pain, since then there was no reliable way to withstand Miltank, and beforehand Clefairy would usually break my team apart with Metronome fire blasts and the like.

Personally, I'd prefer a champion like Cynthia in Smash long before a gym leader.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I may be the only one, but I always wondered why Meowth never made the grade considering Puff was only originally picked by Sakurai because of the anime. Unlike jiggs he's still anime relevent(and is about the only one other tha Pikachu) and is the closest thing to a villain Pikachu has.

 

[Cheezey Bites]

It was because of the limitations of smash 64. Meowth is a pretty complex design and making it look like Meowth and fully animated was just too much for a 4 player fighting game in those days; Jigglypuff was chosen as a second option when they realised this because they could then use Kirby's base model to finish it more quickly.

As for melee, we all know how rushed that game was with the clones, and by brawl he was a little late to the party.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I think Meowth is kind of likely.

1.) He's always been a villain (sure, sometimes played good guy, but he's Bowser-like villain to Pikachu).
2.) He has appeared in both SSB and SSBB as pokeball item. Charizard was also Pokeball item twice before Brawl.

This is how I see Pokemon likelyhood:
1.)PT
2.)Jigglypuff (No cuts, 3 times veteran, SSB popularity, etc)
3.)Mewtwo/Newtwo (a brand new revamped Mewtwo, with his awakening form incorporated somehow)
4.)Lucario (No cuts)
5.)Meowth (Reasons stated above)
6.)Eevee (mostly because they'd want to give his playstyle all of the Eeveelutions... which are many)

 

[Opossum]

Honestly, I think the Pokemon character selection is just going to be

1. Pikachu (confirmed)
2. Jigglypuff
3. Pokemon Trainer (with Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard)
4. Mewtwo
5. Lucario

Just the way I see it. I think it would keep the most amount of people happy.

 

[FalKoopa]

I think Victini and Meoletta had a bit of popularity a while ago.

I actually wanted Victini once (before joining these boards), but I dropped my support when I realized how unlikely he was... :/

 

[@tomic]

So how about these supposed 'Mega' forms?

Spoiler

Megalucario for Smash 4?

Megamawile also looks pretty sick:

Spoiler

 

[Guybrush20X6]

As many of you have heard, there will be several improved versions of previous pokemon, dubbed Mega-Pokemon.

They are...

Mega-Mewtwo (aka awakened)
Mega-Lucario
Mega-Blaziken
Mega-Absol
Mega-Amphros
Mega-Mawile
and possibly more.

If we keep the Mewtwo and Lucario stuff to their veretan pages, anyone think they'll make it as playable characters?

 

[Glaciacott]

Yup, Smash is also the first thing I thought.

Suddenly Lucario is as relevant as Mewtwo again.

 

[SpaceJell0]

Yup, Smash is also the first thing I thought.

Suddenly Lucario is as relevant as Mewtwo again.

Good! I was accepting his cut but now I'm happy hopefully he's less floaty and more "fighty" instead of feeling like a Psychic Type

 

[RVD_fan]

Blaziken fans have something to cling to

I still think we get Lucario and Mewtwo

 

[Glaciacott]

Thing is, when you think about it Brawl as a whole was pretty floaty. Hopefully the new, faster feel of the fighters means Lucario will a bit more heavy and true Steel type.

 

[Glaciacott]

The fact Lucario seems more likely now than before, and the fact Mewtwo should be pretty much in already, just tells me that Pokemon will really get no new rep.

Even though the idea of fighting as Ampharos would blow my mind.

 

[Tepig2000]

I would love to fight as Mega-Ampharos, especially because Mega-Ampharos is Electric/Dragon.

 

[3Bismyname]

when i read the title of this thread i started playing this theme song in my head

 

[Guybrush20X6]

when i read the title of this thread i started playing this theme song in my head

That was the intention. Wonder how many gags about Rockman being a mega-evolved man will be flung around tonight.

 

[DarkKry4]

I still hope Lucario gets cut. What the hell was he doing in Smash in the first place? We want Mewtwo back.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Mega-Amphros could be a great Gen 2 rep... unless there's a Mega Scizor in the wings.

 

[Glaciacott]

No ... just, no ...

Mega evolutions were made for Pokemon X and Y. They weren't made so that all of the sudden Sakurai can pick them for Smash.

That Mewtwo and Lucario get new forms helps in the sense that it justifies them remaining in smash since it shows they're still meaningful pokemon and not a flavor of the month thing.
But to assume this means that suddenly Mawile, Ampharos, Blaziken and Absol can now make it in is just silly.

Heck, if anything, this puts the nail on the coffin of the five pokemon reps: Pikachu, PKMN Trainer, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo and Lucario. Any other generation can be represented by pokeballs and stages.

 

[fogbadge]

im willing to bet they'll be included in some way

 

[Deleted member]

I still hope Lucario gets cut. What the hell was he doing in Smash in the first place? We want Mewtwo back.

He was in Smash because he earned it.
We can have both.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Mega Forms for all!

Mega Pikachu
Mega Squirtle
Mega Ivysaur
Mega Charizard
Mega Lucario
Mega Mewtwo
Mega Pichu
Mega Pokemon Trainer

The madness!!'nn

I remember drawing new Pokemon waaaay back in the day and I created a new type "warrior" and created warrior forms for like Charizard, Mewtwo, Pidgeot, Vileplume, etc. These new forms REALLY remind me of these Pokemon I created.

 

[AfricanSanta]

It doesn't really improve any one's chance. I doubt these aren't going to be the only Mega evolutions in the game. It wouldn't be to far-fetched if every fully evolved Pokemon got a Mega Evolution.

 

[IsmaR]

I don't like any "shiny new forme/type/ability change = more likely/relevant/recency" notion at all, though I do think it would be cool to have some Mega Forme Pokeball Pokemon alongside their weaker formes. Maybe make it so it's like a once-in-a-blue-moon thing like Mew/Pixies.

 

[jaytalks]

I don't think the mega forms affect any pokemon's chances. I always though Mewtwo's chances were better because of Sakurai's response to the question after the form was revealed and his words during the E3 pokemon event.