Pokedex Entry 5: Falco

[Elliot Gale]

For some reason I'm under the impression that if Falco shines Flamethrower, the reflected part just clanks with the rest.

 

[Retro Gaming]

Actually, it does. But I'm pretty sure you have to shield the actual Reflector, anyway. I 'dunknow, Falco's always think reflecting Flamethrower is going to do something.

 

[Onxy]

Lol at Charizard having terrible recovery.

 

[Fearmy]

charizard has a great Recovery <_> Squirtle can Crawl under the Shine and Lasers. So what if falco fights in the air, what they got? F-air is mainly for Gimping, D-air For Spiking, B-air for Killing and U-air for killing. Nair is the only one for damaging. and yet i see how hard it is to actually hit squirtle with all of the hits on N-air. Squirtle is meant for damaging and seriously. the AAA combo -> W/E is really PRedictable.... you can easily Dodge or Shield Grab the Falco and around 90% falco is finished with Squirtle. Oh did i mention that Squirtle has a hard time being spiked and WG > Illusion and Fire Falco?

 

[Adriel]

Retro, I agree with Ivysaur and Charizard being at a slight advantage, but what's your reasoning for why Squirtle is as well?

 

[Retro Gaming]

Oh, I thought I posted all at slight disadvantage.

Squirtle gets chain-spiked, he really can't survive some of Falco's heavy hits. They're about even in the air.

 

[Adriel]

Oh, I thought I posted all at slight disadvantage.

Squirtle gets chain-spiked, he really can't survive some of Falco's heavy hits. They're about even in the air.

Can the chain-spike be meteor canceled?

 

[Retro Gaming]

Sorry for using spike, it's just a meteor smash.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure everything can be Meteor-canceled, but Squirtle's got a pretty bad recovery. The problem is that by chain-meteor-smash (Sounds terrible, btw), I mean he can rack about 30% then get a guaranteed meteor-smash. I feel that this is enough to destroy Squirtle. I want to try the match-up again with a different mind-set for Squirtle, though.

 

[Elliot Gale]

Meteor canceling doesn't exist in this lame game. It's just a lack of hitstun. =3

 

[Retro Gaming]

In Brawl, Meteor Cancels can still be performed, but can no longer be performed immediately after being hit. It's only possible to meteor cancel after falling about half of the original distance. Both double jump, triple jump and tether recoveries can be used to meteor cancel, but there are exceptions, such as Pit's Up Special and jumps. Any character in Melee and most in Brawl can Meteor Cancel with their second jump.

I 'dunknow, just read about the Brawl mechanic once.

Either way, I think Squirtle versus Falco might not be so bad if you play near the ledges, since that doesn't really let him rack-up damage before the spike. I don't know how effective that would be, but you can out-stall his laser with your duck.

Then again, I think Falco can pivot you and then chain-grab the other direction?

 

[Adriel]

I 'dunknow, just read about the Brawl mechanic once.

Either way, I think Squirtle versus Falco might not be so bad if you play near the ledges, since that doesn't really let him rack-up damage before the spike. I don't know how effective that would be, but you can out-stall his laser with your duck.

Then again, I think Falco can pivot you and then chain-grab the other direction?

At least you wouldn't get chain-spiked if he pivot grabs you. Wouldn't Squirtle have already reached 30ish% by the time he reached the other side of the stage?

 

[Retro Gaming]

Depends on the stage, but it seems you need to play on the edge versus Falco, especially with Squirtle and Charizard. I think Ivysaur should just play center anyway, tether's are pretty safe during a spike situation. At least, better than normal situations.

 

[Thinkaman]

Am I missing something, or does Falco have anytihng that keeps Charizard from DIing into him after the d-throw and footstooling? I never had a problem with the chainthrow as Charizard...

 

[Retro Gaming]

I remember doing this a few times, but I thought it was just that my opponent was not doing the grabs fast enough. It's a good point to note, though.

 

[hippiedude92]

Wouldn't Squirtle's water gun be effective against Falco's sideb, I mean it works well with Mario's Fludd so shouldn't with Squirtle *doesnt main or know stuff about PT btw*.

 

[Adriel]

Wouldn't Squirtle's water gun be effective against Falco's sideb, I mean it works well with Mario's Fludd so shouldn't with Squirtle *doesnt main or know stuff about PT btw*.

Yeah, it is effective against both Falco's side-b and up-b recoveries.

 

[Retro Gaming]

I'm going to attempt to learn to Water Gun gimp. I'll see if it's worth the trouble. I think the main problem with it is that no one's tried to learn to aim it well.

 

[homicidalrapist]

show me some one who consistently does this IN MATCH.

it's not so hard to do in a match. i used to do it in wifi.
so a pro like seth or hylian can probably do it.

 

[Adriel]

Has anyone mentioned Charizard's 0-death spike/gimp yet? Back-throw to forward-throw will get Falco off the stage very easily. Back-air, forward air, and down air are possible options at this point, but I believe that Flamethrower would be the easiest move to pull off, and also the most damaging.

 

[Elliot Gale]

It will work the first time.

After that you need to play more of a guessing game because they won't fall for it in the same manner twice.

 

[Retro Gaming]

But hey, Falco's one of those characters that legitametly has a problem with Flamethrower. That racks percentage too easily.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

mmm i think charizard vs falco is neutral, and squirtle too, charizard has the range to keep him on a hard fight on the ground and the air, and squirtle does pretty well against him

 

[Steeler]

alright so i'm getting slight disadvantage for all three from retro...anyone wanna agree or disagree?

are we thinkin like 40-60 on all three pokes or...?

 

[Pichu Sensei]

If you want to kill a falco, your best shot is squirtle. Although it won't be easy. Try to charge your water gun before they start firing his lasers because it will help out when you are trying to stay alive to cancel out his lasers and pushing away his Fsmash.

Your next best shot is Charizard. This really depends on lag though. You have to have alot of practice with side-stepping lasers. Get in close, and go for the grab. Fo' Sho' he'll be rolling around you alot because he underestimates charizards speed. So to avoid the Fsmash after the roll, use your Dsmash. If it hits him, good, follow up with some infin jump ariels and some tilts. If it doesn't, he probably shielded, and he'll slide away from you too far for him to use his smash. Like most other falco players, he'll use his side b to recover. Don't try to spike him unless he's far below the ledge. Just roll towards the middle and charge up your Fsmash. If you got the distance right, the little bird will fly back home to his rightful place off the screen.

Ivysaur... Don't use him. You'll get laser'd, out manouvered, and overwhelmed. Don't use bullet seed because falco can easily DI out of it. Just try and cancel out the lasers with razers, and try and get out of them because falco shoots faster. Just try and knock him off the edge. When they try and side b into you when recovering, use a razor leaf and Fsmash. Repeat until you can have enough time to switch.

 

[Steeler]

how does falco easily di out of bullet seed? he has one of the fastest fall speeds in the game. and you can't cancel the lasers with leaf, which has a slower recharge time. plus falco can just reflect the leaves.

as ivysaur, he should try to keep the match on the ground at midrange as much as possible...close enough to where you don't fear lasers and you can outrange with your tilts and bair. if falco wants to start taking it to the air, bair and bullet seed should bring him back down. ;D

ivysaur has to be more AGGRESSIVE against falco than anyone else in the game. that's why this is such a strange match up for ivy. but you'd be surprised, it CAN be effective if you safely keep the pressure on him

 

[Pichu Sensei]

how does falco easily di out of bullet seed? he has one of the fastest fall speeds in the game. and you can't cancel the lasers with leaf, which has a slower recharge time. plus falco can just reflect the leaves.

as ivysaur, he should try to keep the match on the ground at midrange as much as possible...close enough to where you don't fear lasers and you can outrange with your tilts and bair. if falco wants to start taking it to the air, bair and bullet seed should bring him back down. ;D

I guess it depends when you use Bullet seed. If you use it when he tries to Dair you, I guess it works just fine. My friend mains falco, and he easily DI's out of the way of the seeds when the ground hitbox knocks him into the air. I didn't mean to use Ivy's leaves as an attack, just to cancel out 1 or 2 lasers so you can jump out of the way because falco shoots faster.
Although you could sneak in a few at close range... but yes, staying on the ground is the best.

 

[Adriel]

I agree with a 40-60 disadvantage to all pokemon. Squirtle seems to be the best starter tho, if only because he can crawl under Falco's lasers.

 

[Hydde]

IMO ivy and zard are at disadvantage. Squirt is neutral with maybe slightly adcantages on the bird.

Ivy gets eaten by lasers and camping...and falco is better than u on melee. Bullet seed is always an option..but all of falcos moves are a constant thread for ivy...specially his campingthat is better than urs.

Zard...FT gets totally nullified by reflector because a good falco can pulloff the reflector in the middle of the FT and own xard...this is possible even when u catch him withthe flame if he DI correctly. And lasers are just annoying for zard.

Squirt is the man for this fight. witha good melee game and being so small and agile helps alot withthe lasers. Ur down tilt goes below his reflector. Some falcos like to chain his AAA jab combo witha reflector to leave u vulnerable, but with squirt and his down tilt u can pass right below his reflector and hit him.
Squirt is a very good choice for this matchup.

 

[Retro Gaming]

ivysaur has to be more AGGRESSIVE against falco than anyone else in the game. that's why this is such a strange match up for ivy. but you'd be surprised, it CAN be effective if you safely keep the pressure on him

Ivysaur can still play an aggressive defense, Hydde. Ivysaur can not camp itself or it will lose, easily. The thing is, the range that you want to be at (the tip of Ftilt/ Bair) is still pretty dangerous versus Falco because of the stupid Reflector. Luckily, if Falco want's to do any meaninful damage, he has to breach your zone to move in with jabs, etc. Also, Reflector leaves him in a terrible position if it's shielded.

It's a really weird match-up.

Reflected Flamethrower clanks with the rest of the Flamethrower. If the Reflector doesn't hit you, Charizard will grab you.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

Yeah someone already said that there is notproblem for zard if the flamethrower is reflected, but anyway, hes such a big target, and falco can use his good aerial game against a grounded charizard becuase zard is tall, i think its a very slight disadvantage for charizard
Squirtle is really good against falco, its just that is harder to kill falco at the top of the screen than killing him at the bottom or at the sides, so your Usmash and Uair need more work to kill, but anyway, a think it may be a slight advantage for squirtle

 

[Onxy]

Here is my opinion.

Squirtle: Yeah, it's about equal...........until you have to go for the kill. Squirtle's lack of kill moves makes this a hard matchup. Not to mention that he can chaingrab you much easier than you can Utilt chain him. Probably 4/6.

Ivysaur: Ivy has a pretty bad approach, and considering that you HAVE to approach him, doesn't make it any easier. Falco can camp Ivysaur for the whole time, and there isn't much Ivy can do. If Ivy is chaingrabbed, put down the controller; considering that anyone with half a brain can do it. 3/7.
.
Charizard: Again, you have to approach, but Charizard is a bit better at it than Ivy. Everything Falco can do to you up close gets him grabbed. You also out range his melee attacks as well. Charizard can fair well against him in the air also. I'd say 5/5.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

Hey guys should we add an analysis for each pokes advantages, disadvantages and tactics to play against the character in the matchup, i think that will help pokemon trainer mains a lot more than it does now, i know its a lot of trouble, but its worth it.
To evit the chainspike with squirtle,i came up with an idea: You can fight on the center of the stage , and do not shield,you may ask why... well because that encourages the falco player to attack you instead of grab you, so if squirtle is below 15 or 20% and fights at the center of the stage without shielding and just going offensive until falco hits you and your damage go higher, then you can play as you want, because your damage is high enough to scape the chaingrab before he takes you to the ledge.... havent tested it, but it sounds good on paper

 

[Onxy]

But that's just saying how you can beat Falco, not an advantage over Falco.

 

[Steeler]

okay, can i get a conclusive agreement here? i'm about to update the type chart. in the meantime i'll put squirtle at a slight disadvantage as long as he can avoid the chainspike, ivy at a slight disadvantage due to being completely outcamped but going toe to toe with falco up close, and zard....zard i'm not so sure, but between slight disadvantage and neutral. lasers will bother you, but you should do your best to close the gap as much as possible at all times. flamethrower freaking owns falco. and the chainspike isn't as much of an issue because i don't think it can kill zard like it kills squirtle.

by the way, how do you escape the chaingrab? assuming you aren't mashing b for bullet seed of course! just jump?

 

[Elliot Gale]

Well, you avoid the spike by double stick DIing away and air dodging. Once you've gotten above the % he can CG you, the fight becomes less of a hassle.

 

[Pichu Sensei]

okay, can i get a conclusive agreement here? i'm about to update the type chart. in the meantime i'll put squirtle at a slight disadvantage as long as he can avoid the chainspike, ivy at a slight disadvantage due to being completely outcamped but going toe to toe with falco up close, and zard....zard i'm not so sure, but between slight disadvantage and neutral. lasers will bother you, but you should do your best to close the gap as much as possible at all times. flamethrower freaking owns falco. and the chainspike isn't as much of an issue because i don't think it can kill zard like it kills squirtle.

by the way, how do you escape the chaingrab? assuming you aren't mashing b for bullet seed of course! just jump?

According to my friend, only a couple of chars can DI out of it, although I'm pretty sure all chars can when they are at high %. I can't remember if PT can get out, so I'm pretty sure if he starts chaingrabbing, we're effed.

 

[Steeler]

SO, conclusion is all three have a slight disadvantage? so we can finally move on and make a new discussion.

 

[Onxy]

Squirtle: D
Ivy: x3D
Char: N.

IMO

 

[Pichu Sensei]

Squirtle: D
Ivy: x3D
Char: N.

IMO

Squirtle: slight disadvantage.

Ivy: x2D

Zard: Disadvantage.

 

[Onxy]

Squirtle: slight disadvantage.

Ivy: x2D

Zard: Disadvantage.

What makes Squirtle at less of a disadvantage than Charizard? Please don't say his lasers.