Pokedex Entry 5: Falco

[Steeler]

The flying wonderbird, indeed.

discussssssssssss the matchup, advantages of each, etc.

current type chart has squirtle at advantage, ivy neutral, and zard disadvantage. for reference.

keep in mind squirtle crawls under both lasers AND the reflector. crawling is a decent approach actually, especially if falco is busy lasering/reflecting. dtilt has okay range. it's best to dtilt as the reflector comes back so falco will still be stuck in after lag.

reflector ***** charizard. i once rock smashed falco, right in the face, and got reflected. AND I TOOK THE DAMAGE FOR ROCK SMASH. it was incredible, suddenly i went from about 45% to 90%.

:|

not to mention zard really really dislikes those lasers.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=181136

link on falco board

 

[Elliot Gale]

Well, this one is funny. He can CG Squirtle to 30ish, Squirtle can Utilt Falco to 30ish. Squirtle is overall a faster attacker, but Falco has a small range advantage on the whole and it's difficult to go through his jabs. Both are quite similar in the air and are quite capable of ****** the other's recovery. Ever so slightly in Falco's favor, but it's nothing you'll notice. Even for all intensive purposes.

Ivysaur is at somewhat of a loss. Lasers just SUCK because you're a ground-based character. You'll have to stay close. This can be a problem, though, as Falco is just quicker in close combat. He can CG Ivy as well. Ftilt, Dtilt, and Bair are your best friends. Hard but not unmanageable, disadvantage for Ivysaur.

Zard hates lasers a little less than Ivysaur does because he's not that bad off in the air. You outrange him on the whole. It's just that he's faster than you. Keep at mid-range so he's too afraid to laser and can't jab you. Remember that Falco is really light and has poor recovery, so pitch him off and act accordingly. He can't CG zard for very long at all. Flamethrower offers a fine alt to rock smash if you're too afraid to use that, as Falco is a fastfaller. Your air game is a little better. Advantage to neutral for Zard.

 

[Onxy]

Piece of Cake!

 

[Amide]

Squirtle>Falco

Squirtle can actually sort of combo Falco, and crawl under lasers. That's all that really needs to be said.

Ivysaur<Falco

I'd love to say Ivy outranges, but reflector and laser from a distance, and reflector and side special and boost smash up close, ruin the thing that Ivy has best.

Charizard<Falco

Laser, reflect, CG. This match forces Charizard to approach, but Falco is the better approacher.

 

[washy]

Falco>PT, falco ***** all of the pokemon.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

Piece of Cake!

LOL

I think its this way
Squirtle: Slight advantage, your speed really helps you there, and your air game is better that falcos, crawl is excellent if he gets annoying with lasers and reflectors, and its easier for you to edgeguard him than for him to edgeguard you
Ivysaur:Slight disadvantage, falco's game really can destroy your camping with razor leaf and intends to approach,your hope is to stay at perfect range for the vines, but even ther the reflector can stop you , but in the air
you have some hope, just beware of that spike.
Charizard:Neutral, falco may have his chaingrab, lasers and reflector, but if you hit him hard and edgeguard him well the story is over for him, alos, fighting in the air should help you

 

[Elliot Gale]

Guys, Charizard is the LEAST susceptible to the CG.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

Why the least susceptible??? i thought it was the oposite, because fo his big size and the fact that he goes not far at all when Dthrowed because of his weight

 

[Elliot Gale]

He's floaty. He can escape much earlier than the other two.

 

[Charizard92]

If any Falco's visit here, you are welcome to post.

 

[Elliot Gale]

lol I play Flaco; this is why I know. <_>

 

[Retro Gaming]

Well, this one is funny. He can CG Squirtle to 30ish, Squirtle can Utilt Falco to 30ish. Squirtle is overall a faster attacker, but Falco has a small range advantage on the whole and it's difficult to go through his jabs. Both are quite similar in the air and are quite capable of ****** the other's recovery. Ever so slightly in Falco's favor, but it's nothing you'll notice. Even for all intensive purposes.

Ivysaur is at somewhat of a loss. Lasers just SUCK because you're a ground-based character. You'll have to stay close. This can be a problem, though, as Falco is just quicker in close combat. He can CG Ivy as well. Ftilt, Dtilt, and Bair are your best friends. Hard but not unmanageable, disadvantage for Ivysaur.

Zard hates lasers a little less than Ivysaur does because he's not that bad off in the air. You outrange him on the whole. It's just that he's faster than you. Keep at mid-range so he's too afraid to laser and can't jab you. Remember that Falco is really light and has poor recovery, so pitch him off and act accordingly. He can't CG zard for very long at all. Flamethrower offers a fine alt to rock smash if you're too afraid to use that, as Falco is a fastfaller. Your air game is a little better. Advantage to neutral for Zard.

This but add that Charizard can gimp Falco easily because of his very poor recovery.

By the way, does anyone know the specifics on hitting Falco during Raptor Boost? It always clanks my attacks and keeps going. I think I remember hearing something about being vulnerable from above the attack, but whatever.

By the way, why no Falco boards page? I liked having the Marth's over.

 

[Elliot Gale]

*Falco Phantasm.

I dunno, it's weird. I know it's not invincible, though.

 

[Charizard92]

???, they don't argue a lot, similar to us?

 

[Steeler]

i've found that spinning attacks like squirtle's dair sometimes stop the phantasm. i've done it a few times. i think its the fact that it hits multiple times in succession.

bullet seed ;D

 

[Retro Gaming]

Guys, Raptor Boost sounds cooler. Phantasm sounds like orgasm. D=

It's definately not invincible, because I've spiked a Falco out of it before. I've never been able to reproduce it, though.

 

[Steeler]

yeah, zard dair spiked once as well.

 

[infernovia]

I am pretty sure raptor boost is falcon's tech chaser (forward b).

Forward popularized Phantasm too much to forget it.

 

[Steeler]

*phantasm

10falcos

 

[Charizard92]

Hello stuck thread. I made another Stuck thread as well. The Pros and Cons is going nowhere, this is going nowhere, we're going nowhere.

 

[Steeler]

op has link to falco board discussion, which is more active

 

[Onxy]

Wow, the Snake forum is really taking us seriously... *cough*

 

[Elliot Gale]

Ran some number checking, just posting this for reference.

Squirtle escapes the CG at 36. Ivy and Zard escape at 45.

All three Pokémon have a 0-30ish sequence on Falco.

Falco dies to their kill throws at the edge of FD at 110, 100 in the case of Squirtle.

Falco dies at 57 to Ivysaur's Usmash. The reason this is important is because it is a great illusion punisher.

Falco dies at 88 to Squirtle's Usmash. Illusion punisher, surprise buttsecks KO possible as well.

Falco dies at 98 to Charizard's Usmash. Not only an effective killer, but it's really fast and easy to throw out just about anytime.

Squirtle's Dair outprioritizes the illusion and hits in the process. It will kill Falco provided it hits him back outward on the final hit at moderate percentages.

Falco's 0-death is very well possible on Squirtle and Ivysaur, HOWEVER, I don't think it's a very likely occurrence. His grab range is meh, and the Pokémon are rather slippery anyway.

Ivysaur outranges Falco hands down due to Ftilt. The only thing Falco has with more range is the shine, and that's not exactly safe. Charizard ever so slightly outranges with his Ftilt, again barring the shine. Falco has a significant range and priority advantage on Squirtle, but performs worse in the air.

 

[old king coal]

keep in mind squirtle crawls under both lasers AND the reflector. crawling is a decent approach actually, especially if falco is busy lasering/reflecting

why do people always think that...? falco can do a grounded silent laser that hits crawlers.

 

[Trip.]

why do people always think that...? falco can do a grounded silent laser that hits crawlers.

show me some one who consistently does this IN MATCH.

 

[wasabicheese]

you have got to be kidding me... alright my friend who i play with everyday mains PT, so i have experience.

Zard- laser fodder. SHDL hit twice on Zard, meaning you will get wrecked. rocksmash and flamethrower can be reflected, falco is quite fast so he can move around Zard very easily, while punishing all attempted attacks. Falco is faster, more agile, and stronger in the air, so dont use jumping as an approach. the chain-grab/spike will wreck u hard, but hopefully u can avoid the grab or spike. your best bet is to space him well with tilts, but even that is hard. definately a disadvantage for charizard.

Ivy- chaingrab bait. seriously, i've no-dmg 3-stocked my friend who fav char is Ivy with the chain-shine/spike. if the falco knows what he's doing, don't even expect a chance to escape. assuming your facing a falco who is nice enuff not to chain-grab u (lol) then u still have problems. laser will piss u off. decent dmg wise, and it stops all your momentum. shine will get u out of his face and set-up for an easy boost-smash. falco has very quick attacks, so watch out for walking into them. the phantasm can also be used to effectively pop u in the air. your best bet is to approach with bairs, and hope u can out-space him. HUGE disadvantage for Ivysaur.

Squirtle- your best bet against falco, but watch out. he can still effectively chain-spike u, but this time its not un-exscapable, its just very hard to get out of. his lasers and shine will control the fight, and his aerials are far superior to urs. also watch out for falco's secret technique: The Boost Smash. this is a very dificult technique but an advanced falco will abuse it. watch out becuz it absolutely WRECKS squirtle. if he starts puilling this out, u have little hope. your best chance would be to WoP like a mad-man, and use quick tilts while making sure he cant punish u. not a big disadvantage for squirtle, but definately a legitimate one.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

Charizards grab range is a lot larger than falcos, so yo may grab him before he does, a smart charizard shouldnt spam flamethrowe or rock smash on this fight, hell make better use of the tilts and grabs, also, in the air charizard has a lot to do against falco, he has better range and hits hard, also his aerials are fast
Ivysaur has problems with the lasers, but he has the advantage in the air, and can outrange falco in the ground, but falco is enough fast to get in good range and hit hard, so be very carefull
Squirtle ***** falco in the air, but in the ground falco is fast enough to compete with his speed nad his range is good, also, one of your best killers, the Usmash, wont work so well because falco doesnt die early on the top of the screen because of his falling speed

 

[Hydde]

I thini the chart type is correct on this one.

Squirtle is definitely ur best bet. One thing totally nnoys me from falcos , is the stupid neutral a combo. That thing will trap althe 3 pokes...specially char and ivy. Falcvo acn end the combo with a reflactor and send u to the floor...making u vulnerable.
I have noticed that with squirtle...u can do a down tilt right after u get out of his neutral a combo and evade the reflactor attack. Also, with squirtle is just way easier to deal withthe lasers.

Ivysaurs canget chaingrabbed, can have difficulties withthe laser...and razorleaf, once predicted, becomes hopeless against the reflector. If the falco manages to neutralize ur razor, which will most likely happen, ivy will have a hell of a fight against a campy falco. The only good thing is that u can kill him early if u save ur best killers for the exact moment.

Charixard---- well this guy is the worst of the 3 against falco. U can kill him early, yeah... but thelasers and the reflector really own charizard. Flamethrower approaches become useless...the same with rock smash..... his neutral a combo(which grabs zard pretty easily) almost always lead to a reflector in the face.

Overall, i try to use ivy and zard the least...and abuse squirtle in this fight. Its an extreme tactic but i think u can get to a decent damage with squirtl and then try to killl him with ur other 2 pokes....or finish him with squirts down thorw.

 

[Elliot Gale]

I find it funny how people seem to think that lasers "wreck Charizard" when they don't.

 

[wasabicheese]

I find it funny how people seem to think that lasers "wreck Charizard" when they don't.

if somebody can SHDL perfectly (silent laser on the second shot) both lasers will hit charizard, and the Rate of Fire drastically increases, gimping Zard's movement, if he resorts to the air, falco's bair will give him nightmares.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

Elliot Gale, how do yu deal with the lasers??
And by the way, which are the moves to use against falco with ivy and zard?..... i think the responses may help everyone to think a little more in this matchup

 

[Elliot Gale]

Charizard is the juggernaut. Dash, cancel with shield when the lasers are about to hit, repeat until you're inside and can grab/jab him. Goes for just about any projectile.

In general, stay close so he's too afraid to laser.

 

[Hydde]

mm that is easier say than done.

His neutral a combo and the reflector are a force to befeared once u are in his range. Is not as easy as you put it.

 

[wasabicheese]

lol, Phatasm-cancelling owns shield dashing. nobody has brought up shield dashing in a while. phantasm cancel immediately after lasers, and either occurs
1. the oponent un-shields to prepare for the next laser, and get hit by the phantasm
2. the oponent holds the shield up and the phantasm goes throught the shield. if it was cancelled properly, falco loses all lag and moved imediately into 2 more options
- a) PT un-shields and receives a Bair to the back of the head.
- b) falco grabs the shield spamming poke and procedes to chain spike.


btw, i may sound somewat elitist, but i have to give u guys credit. PT is far too dificult to use for me, i am completely pathetic without atleast a mid-tier character, and PT is sadly probably low or bottom. im posting these facts to help u guys, hopefully a strong PT will break the ice soon and show everyone that tiers are not as big a factor in brawl. good luck.

 

[Elliot Gale]

Show me someone who can phantasm cancel with 100% consistency. lol

 

[wasabicheese]

sorry, i meant immediate aerial phantasm. my bad. what u do is shorthop, and as soon as u see falcos bend his knees (still on the ground) use phantasm. this glitches by making falco do a grounded phantasm but the game thinks its an aerial phantasm. therefore there is no ending lag (grounded phantasm) or landing lag (aerial phantasm).

 

[PkTrainerCris]

The falco main with the imposible-to-remember-or-write-again name may be right, the phantom may take away the security in shield dashing, but not in mid range combat

 

[Steeler]

let's wrap this up guys, i gotta go right now but let's summarize so we can make a new discussion.

 

[Beetle Juice]

guys um even though falco has terrible recovery, all three pokemons do to. also you guys are neglecting falcos air priority over PT and I never seen a falco player fight in the ground. Squirtle is Almost stands even against falco but he dies at low percents. Ivysaur has bullet seed and up smash on falco but he's pretty easy to take. Charizard is the easiest to take out he isn't no neutral vs falco, all he really got is his grab range, fair and neutral b if he wants to annoy us, he is gimpable because of his size and can be combo'ed in the air due to his size.

 

[Retro Gaming]

Yeah except that Charizard's Flamethrower makes Falco's return to the edge a living hell. I've kept Falco in it for at least 80% damage before, but the average will be about 30%.

I feel that all three are at a disadvantage, though none of them at a large one. Falco is really annoying to get to and fight, but Charizard is not "easily" gimpable. I mean, if you really wanted to you can just blow through any Falco edgeguard with the super armor on Fly, or jump away, force him to return to ledge because of his terrible recovery, and then use your remaining jump and Fly to get back. I don't really understand this heavily gimpable stuff. For the record, it seems Flamethrower is generally useful versus Falco, since most seem to want to Reflector Flamethrower back at you while on-stage. All you need to do is cut it early, shield the Reflector and you basically just got a free grab.

I'll stress again that if Falco is not very strict with his chain-grab timing Ivysaur gets out with Bullet Seed, and I'm pretty sure Squirtle can hurt Falco (Though cause no knockback) with Nair. These don't really apply any sort of weight to the match-up because we're assuming perfect play, but it's more of a "remember this" tidbit.