Pokedex Entry #448: Lucario

[Steeler]

hack yourself a master ball, gg

seriously

i think squirtle does alright at low to mid percent because he can avoid the huge hitboxes alright. good pressure, and lucario has really bad grab range, so that's a really good benefit for you. at high percents though, you'll be getting weaker as lucario gets stronger...that's a problem for all 3 but moreso for squirtle.

ivysaur i really dislike. outcamped and outranged. really uphill battle imo.

charizard is a big target, and that's bad for lucario's big hitboxes. he's okay at high percent (no comboz) and can kill luke early.

i think this is a disadvantageous matchup overall.

 

[Kris121]

or we can easily use a master ball or just bair wall with ivy

 

[Browny]

from my experiences... (vs numerous matches against my brothers PT, once in tourney and a few matches vs tcranter)

Charizard is your best choice against lucario. Rocksmash omnomnom's Lucario's usual fair approaches, his KO tilts send at very low angles making recovery difficult vs flamethrower, fair etc. Lucario outranges squirtle pretty bad in the air, he can camp with bairs, uairs, dairs and squirtle cant afford to trade hits. IDK much about ivy, rarely play against them lol.

 

[Syrus_Draco]

Squirtle does well when when Lucario when Lucario is at low percents but take him out with the higher percents since the knock back will do him in. For any Squirtle uses who use Withdraw it's best to avoid the attack since nearly all of Lucario's moves have good knock back.

Ivysaur does have a bit of a disadvantage on the ground so bring Lucairo into the air when you can. Ivysaur's aerials will our range him so space him out with Bair and Laser Leaf. At low percents Razer Leaf can negate Aura Ball but don't rely on it.

Charizard has decent game but being a big target Lucario won't have too much trouble landing his moves. Be tactful with your approaches. Lucario's Forward Smash can go through the Flamethrower as well as his Aura Ball at higher percents. Put some grab game on Lucario where you can. Lucario's grab game may not be as good as Charizard's but be careful. A good Lucario player knows how to set up moves so he can grab, and use his grab to set up more combos.

 

[Milln]

I'll actually help on this one cause I like playing as Poketrainer, too.

Chairzard

In my experiences, Aura Sphere goes through Flamethrower relatively early making it lawlworthy. Force Palm Grab to follow-ups are lawls and Chairzard is a big guy with slower attacks so whatever we want to hit usually will if we're not dumb about it.

HOWEVER. Since Chairzard is a dra-dra-dra-dra-DRAGON, Rock Smash is bs and most of the time our Aura stuff with break the rock for you and we'll take damage from the spray anyway. Fair is ugh if you sweet it and no one ever likes getting hit by a flaming tail. Dthrow, fair, bair, ftilt, Rawk Hawk Smash, and maybe Fly and maybe Dair if we're idiots and ESpeeding too close are what you'll probably want to use to KO Luca.

Ivysaur

Don't get knocked off the edge. We can stay on stage and make you go for the ledge and then ExtremeHog(cause it lets us do it without being obvious) it for your stock. Don't get mindgamed.

That being said, I'm not sure if your uair goes through our dair, but it's worth looking into, but a good Lucario will see you jumping up and dair early and catch your spacing if it indeed does. Pretty sure Aura Sphere gets cancelled out by Razor Leaf at all percents, though I could be wrong, I never fight Poketrainers that know what they're doing enough to get me to high percentage vs. Ivysaur. =\ Uair will prolly be the only that that'll kill a Lucario. *shrug* =o

Squirtle

Ah mah gawd I would get banned if I use Squirtle during tournament cause I laugh too much I have to pause the game he's so funny and I make so many jokes. <3

 

[XavantTheEnigma]

Squirtle!

 

[Milln]

Is that last one a picture of Bowletta?

 

[Lycan_Rawr]

Chairzard

T^T

Spoiler

10sillytypos

 

[XavantTheEnigma]

Hey Lycan! :D
Hows it going? :3

also, idk. I just searched and copy pasta'd the squirtles

 

[phi1ny3]

Squirtle does well when when Lucario when Lucario is at low percents but take him out with the higher percents since the knock back will do him in. For any Squirtle uses who use Withdraw it's best to avoid the attack since nearly all of Lucario's moves have good knock back.

Ivysaur does have a bit of a disadvantage on the ground so bring Lucairo into the air when you can. Ivysaur's aerials will our range him so space him out with Bair and Laser Leaf. At low percents Razer Leaf can negate Aura Ball but don't rely on it.

Charizard has decent game but being a big target Lucario won't have too much trouble landing his moves. Be tactful with your approaches. Lucario's Forward Smash can go through the Flamethrower as well as his Aura Ball at higher percents. Put some grab game on Lucario where you can. Lucario's grab game may not be as good as Charizard's but be careful. A good Lucario player knows how to set up moves so he can grab, and use his grab to set up more combos.

Squirtle does very well in terms of hydroplaning, and I suppose hydroplaned grab will be useful due to lucario's sub par grab range. He will do ok against lucario at low percents, but lucario is essentially a longer ranged, bigger combo monster at low percents. Overall, your air game will constist of you beating him to the punch, otherwise his aerials will burn. On the ground, similar things apply, and though lucario's shield game isn't used so often (as opposed to someone like bowser/D3), using tilts/jabs I guess would do well against a lucario who isn't careful about getting away. Watch out for AS, it is very useful for racking up damage, but it's also valuable pressuring and limiting options, "cover fire" for approaches, and for killing (FCAS)

On Ivysaur: Even though Ivysaur's razor leaf can cancel AS at low percents, higher percents it's harder, and BAS has less launch lag (so it can be fired faster) than razor leaf, meaning that lucario outcamps Ivy. Bair wall will be useful, dtilt comes out pretty fast iirc, but overall, Ivy is at definite disadvantage (especially since lucario's gimping game is great, not to say that Ivysaur doesn't have any options to get rid of edgehoggers). If the lucario is sloppy, you can try for vertical kill (since lucario is easier to kill vertically than horizontally), but don't rely on a strong aerial game for Ivysaur.

Charizard, (or if you're from Lucario IRC, Chairzard) has some good stuff against lucario. Amazing grab range, long range tilts that compete with ours, pretty good recovery options, and early kill moves. Lucario has AS though, and at high percents, lucario's AS will go through fire (I once played against my friends bowser, and at high percents, my fully charged AS went through like three fire hitboxes, and though I don't know about Charizard's fire properties, I'm sure the same applies). Don't get into the air, because unless you bait for a rock smash, lucario is going to have a holiday building up damage on charizard with fair, dair, nair, etc. utilt is pretty good, since it has good range, but I think our dair beats it.

 

[Charizard92]

FINALLY!!!

Well, There are two things I want to point out:
The more damage Lucario takes, the more powerful he becomes. Characters that can KO early can avoid this problem. Squirtle WILL have problems.
Lucario is somewhat light when it comes to vertical knockback, and the best way all three Pokemon KO is ^.
Lucario is My second, yet since I've been playing PT so much, Me playing him is rare. Despite this, I have been one of the people lurking around the Lucario Boards...

Lucario vs Squirtle: This is clearly a Lucario shutout (if there is one). for starters, Squirtle can't Kill Lucario Early, so Squirtle WILL feel the power of the Aura (and so many Dragon Ball Z memes). To compound this, Squirtle is Light, so a powered up Lucario is going to Hurt badly.
Please Ignore unless some other PT gives Confirmation

Lucario vs Ivysaur: Again, this goes to Lucario, yet it isn't much of a shutout as Squirtle. For starters, Ivysaur's Usmash (if it ever connects [it unlikely will]) and Uair (beware) will Both KO you upwards at around 70% or so, which doesn't really allow Aura to kick in as much. Conversely, Low power Lucario will likely gimp you, and Ivysaur is a prime candidate for "worst recovery in Brawl". If Ivysaur ever leaves the stage, Game over.
Please Ignore this until some other PT gives confirmation (I am not an expert on Squirtle or Ivysaur)

Lucario vs Charizard:
For Charizard: For starters, Charizard is really powerful, and strong. He is very capable of KOing Lucario at around 70%. Charizard himself is quite heavy, so Trying to KO him is a problem. This is also a problem because Charizard has a good recovery (around or a bit better than Lucario's for perspective). Compound this with super armor fly, and Gimping would be nightmarish. Charizard's U attacks can easily juggle Lucario, and Lucario's obvious Dair may be his only hope. If Charizard sees it coming, expect a shielded Usmash (requires that tap jump is on). He has several moves to Kill you, even horizontally (All tilts, usmash, rock smash, fair, bair, dair [on occasion], rock smash, and rarely, Fsmash and Dsmash). Let's not forget the grab game, as Charizard can throw you around a lot.
Against Charizard: Starting with His grab, Lucario abnormally lacks some friction, so he can't be regrabbed. Secondly, Aura sphere is a decent Projectile, and Charizard has NO defense against Projectiles. Also, Lucario himself, is a good Juggler, which is just as bad against Charizard as around half of the list for him is against you. Charizard has less defense against Juggling than Lucario (Nair may be the only real attack that works). Lucario could theoretically just Juggle Charizard into a comfortable range to KO him, and do so. This is even worse if Charizard decides to spare you. Let's not forget the air game, Lucario can use that to hurt you. Oh, and since this isn't pokemon, Charizard can't suck up your fighting moves and counter it with fire ones.
Confirmation preferred, but you CAN listen to this beforehand.

Really, Lucario has a complete upper hand against Squirtle, one against Ivysaur, and a slight one against Charizard (or even, it depends on which Pros and cons are more severe)

 

[Milln]

T^T

Spoiler

10sillytypos

Hey, Chairzard's really good, man. Chairzard counters Sakurai.

 

[Syrus_Draco]

On Ivysaur: Even though Ivysaur's razor leaf can cancel AS at low percents, higher percents it's harder, and BAS has less launch lag (so it can be fired faster) than razor leaf, meaning that lucario outcamps Ivy. Bair wall will be useful, dtilt comes out pretty fast iirc, but overall, Ivy is at definite disadvantage (especially since lucario's gimping game is great, not to say that Ivysaur doesn't have any options to get rid of edgehoggers). If the lucario is sloppy, you can try for vertical kill (since lucario is easier to kill vertically than horizontally), but don't rely on a strong aerial game for Ivysaur.

I hate how everyone discredits Ivysaur soley on his recovery.

I can agree that Squirtle wouldn't be my top candidate in the match up. One just needs patience and tact to fight as Squirtle.

Ivysaur has good moves to rack up damage and possibly kill. I do not think Ivysaur is at a definite disadvantage soley because of his recovery. On the fighting field Ivysaur can pit well against Lucario, and in a ledge fight a good PT will know how to approach the ledge when Lucario choses to be aggressive or use other means to gimp Ivysaurs recovery.

I can agree more or less on someof your points with Charizard. It's well aware that the higher the percents the more damage and knock back Lucario will deal and how Aura Sphere will have priority.

 

[Charizard92]

Helloooo! Anyone Notice My Posts?!

 

[phi1ny3]

I hate how everyone discredits Ivysaur soley on his recovery.

I can agree that Squirtle wouldn't be my top candidate in the match up. One just needs patience and tact to fight as Squirtle.

Ivysaur has good moves to rack up damage and possibly kill. I do not think Ivysaur is at a definite disadvantage soley because of his recovery. On the fighting field Ivysaur can pit well against Lucario, and in a ledge fight a good PT will know how to approach the ledge when Lucario choses to be aggressive or use other means to gimp Ivysaurs recovery.

I can agree more or less on someof your points with Charizard. It's well aware that the higher the percents the more damage and knock back Lucario will deal and how Aura Sphere will have priority.

Oh by all means, Ivysaur doesn't have disadvantage by gimping alone. I'm aware of Ivy's ability to dispose of edge games, but the sad thing is that lucario has a good edge game (It's like when people discredit Olimar by saying he has a horrible recovery, but forget that he can clear an edgehog attempt with uair's long hitbox). Also, I was adding on/correcting what was already said, so I didn't need to explain that Ivy's ground game and air game are at a disadvantage in range compared to lucario's. Overall though, I think Ivysaur is at a disadvantage in both air and ground, with Ivy fsmash, bair, and grab being better in range. If you think that uair is going to be a trump card, you need to see our dair on its longest reach. Ivy's fair would outrange, but it's also considerably slow, and is telegraphed. I obviously don't need to go into Ivy's dair and nair, so I conclude that lucario may need to worry at high percents in the air, but otherwise lucario is better in the air as well. Frankly, I lurv playing as PT, but I have to say that prolly the best option is charizard.

 

[Samuelson]

Lucario ***** Ivysaur and Squirtle but has kind of a tough time with the Zard. I have lots of PT practice from Typh and i just recently played PokemonMasterIRL. I think i have enough practice to say that Lucario overall has an advantage.

 

[Syrus_Draco]

Oh by all means, Ivysaur doesn't have disadvantage by gimping alone. I'm aware of Ivy's ability to dispose of edge games, but the sad thing is that lucario has a good edge game (It's like when people discredit Olimar by saying he has a horrible recovery, but forget that he can clear an edgehog attempt with uair's long hitbox). Also, I was adding on/correcting what was already said, so I didn't need to explain that Ivy's ground game and air game are at a disadvantage in range compared to lucario's. Overall though, I think Ivysaur is at a disadvantage in both air and ground, with Ivy fsmash, bair, and grab being better in range. If you think that uair is going to be a trump card, you need to see our dair on its longest reach. Ivy's fair would outrange, but it's also considerably slow, and is telegraphed. I obviously don't need to go into Ivy's dair and nair, so I conclude that lucario may need to worry at high percents in the air, but otherwise lucario is better in the air as well. Frankly, I lurv playing as PT, but I have to say that prolly the best option is charizard.

Hmm hard to say. I haven't felt that heavy of a disadvantage when I've been Ivysaur playing against Lucarios, be they the aggressive or camping types. I don't think that Ivysaur's air game is at so much of a lack as you may give.

I never give Ivysaur's Uair a thought to a Lucario A basic rule I keep on hand is to not stay under a Lucario since the Dair has good range and priority, or the Fair that has it's range with the aura and speed of it coming out. Ivysaur's Fair is slow but with proper spacing and timing it can make for a few decent hits if landed, nothing to rely heavily on. Rather just Bair for the approach and mix it with Razor Leafs where possible.

I'm not saying Ivysaur's a total beast against Lucario, but he's lacking credit here with what he has. Both characters have the spacing and Lucario does have priority on him, one just needs to see how to Ivysaur's moves and apply them.

Or they can double out to Chairzard. :/

 

[Rkey]

If I am not misstaken here, Lucario generally does worse against characters that KO him at low percent since he wants to get high. People have been saying that Zard does pretty well, and that Ivy's a so so. Are we talking something like:

Squirtle-Lucario: 40:60
Ivy-Lucario: 45:55
Zard-Lucario: 50:50

Just guessin'

Edit: Hey, someone said Squirtle won't ko Lucario early. Isn't Lucario pretty easy to gimp? I mean, when he initiates up-b, he's a target of watergun. Also, just fair at him and block the edge?

I'm sorry guys, I should stop talking. I'm tired and I've never played a good Lucario.

 

[Bomber7]

I've played quite a few good lucarios and my PT doesnt stand a chance. every move I make (including take step foreward) gets punished. I manage to get one kill (2 if I'm lucky).

 

[phi1ny3]

Hmm hard to say. I haven't felt that heavy of a disadvantage when I've been Ivysaur playing against Lucarios, be they the aggressive or camping types. I don't think that Ivysaur's air game is at so much of a lack as you may give.

I never give Ivysaur's Uair a thought to a Lucario A basic rule I keep on hand is to not stay under a Lucario since the Dair has good range and priority, or the Fair that has it's range with the aura and speed of it coming out. Ivysaur's Fair is slow but with proper spacing and timing it can make for a few decent hits if landed, nothing to rely heavily on. Rather just Bair for the approach and mix it with Razor Leafs where possible.

I'm not saying Ivysaur's a total beast against Lucario, but he's lacking credit here with what he has. Both characters have the spacing and Lucario does have priority on him, one just needs to see how to Ivysaur's moves and apply them.

Or they can double out to Chairzard. :/

Like I said, chairzard ftw!
Also, I've found that razor leaf can only be used for pressuring and surprise, never for true camping. Lucario's BAS can be fired faster than Razor leaf. Ivysaur bair range is beastly though, and I figure that some of Ivy's tilts can be useful, but I still think that overall best bet is Charizard. Ivy is solidly in the 60:40 disadvantage imo, but it certainly isn't close to even.

 

[Steeler]

yeah, i think ivy is 4/6 disadvantage.

 

[Charizard92]

Edit: Hey, someone said Squirtle won't ko Lucario early. Isn't Lucario pretty easy to gimp? I mean, when he initiates up-b, he's a target of watergun. Also, just fair at him and block the edge?

I'm sorry guys, I should stop talking. I'm tired and I've never played a good Lucario.

No he is not. It is actually kinda hard to gimp a Lucario (provided they know what the **** they're doing). Extremespeed can be altered to grab the ledge, so water gun would be less effective.

 

[Adriel]

I think starting off as Ivysaur to rack up damage and then switching to Charizard for the KO is a good idea. Squartle first gets Lucario to a very high percentage which is dangerous. Once Charizard is KO'ed you can then use Squartle and then switch out when you feel like it and then just go with the flow after that.

 

[Miles.]

PT is not at a disadvatage to Luc.

Idk.

I used to think it was really in Lucs favor.

Now not so much..

Samuelson good **** sir.

Get some sleep next time mang.

you were way cool nice meeting you sir.

 

[Timothy2035]

I played against a guy who pulled out his Lucario yesterday. He was pretty good I tell you that. My best character was sort of Ivy. I kept using dash and tackle along with some forward tilts to make the most difference. My razor leaf against his aura spheres were just to nullify certain size ones, but if the sphere was rather large, the leaf would be nullified and the sphere would make its way through. Charzy did decent, but he got around rock smash several times. Squirt did some nice moves with back air. Which I feel is the most effective for Squirtle. I don't recall getting a win on his Lucario, but it was close in a couple of matches. I asked him about some further matches and he looks like he is all for it.

 

[Adriel]

Posted this in the PokeMasterIRL (and AD's) Motha Effin Vids thread:

Ivysaur does really good against Lucario in my opinion, just gotta play really campy and use bullet seed whenever possible, and then switch to Charizard for the KO. As long as you play really campy, you're not gonna get gimped much. You can limit Lucario's somewhat too by using instant tether. Lucario has to recover onstage if you use instant tether, so you can just get on stage and punish him.

 

[Yoshi-Kirby]

Yeah, characters that kill Lucario at low percents do well since Lucario can't kill at low percents. I would use Squirtle to rack up damage, then D-throw, switch to Ivysaur, kill, or if D-throw kills, use Bullet Seed or stay away and Razor leaf to get more damage. Then, maybe kill with Fsmash, or luckily a Usmash. Charizard would do well with Rock Smash and Fsmash as kill moves, and Ftilt and Dtilt work well too. I would say it's an even matchup overall.

 

[typh]

lucario scares me

he messes up my ivysaur fsmash tricksies because if lucario forward smashes at the same time he can hit you from, like, across final destination

 

[Charizard92]

Yeah, characters that kill Lucario at low percents do well since Lucario can't kill at low percents. I would use Squirtle to rack up damage, then D-throw, switch to Ivysaur, kill, or if D-throw kills, use Bullet Seed or stay away and Razor leaf to get more damage. Then, maybe kill with Fsmash, or luckily a Usmash. Charizard would do well with Rock Smash and Fsmash as kill moves, and Ftilt and Dtilt work well too. I would say it's an even matchup overall.

OK, Squirtle is the weakest, and requires that Lucario has some decent Damage before Squirtle can KO him. We are talking about the 100% range, instead of the 80% of Ivysaur and the 70% of Charizard.

IMO the matchup is like:

Squirtle:4/6
Ivysaur:4.5/5.5
Charizard:5/5

PT:4.5/5.5

Normally, it's the average of the top 2, as PT can sometimes get away with only using only two Pokemon, but because there isn't a midground between near neutral and neutral, near neutral it is.

 

[phi1ny3]

OK, Squirtle is the weakest, and requires that Lucario has some decent Damage before Squirtle can KO him. We are talking about the 100% range, instead of the 80% of Ivysaur and the 70% of Charizard.

IMO the matchup is like:

Squirtle:4/6
Ivysaur:4.5/5.5
Charizard:5/5

PT:4.5/5.5

Normally, it's the average of the top 2, as PT can sometimes get away with only using only two Pokemon, but because there isn't a midground between near neutral and neutral, near neutral it is.

I would say 45/55 is decent, though I'm inclined to say charizard's is 45/55 lucario's favor, or we could be gay and have matchup numbers in the decimals.

 

[BlueTerrorist]

I use Charizard to kill in this match alot more than any of the Pokemon. Squirtle, I just hit & run and try to find ways to knock Lucario back so I can switch and also damage him (I also use Water Gun to mess with his spacing and when he's charging his sphere). Ivysaur, I rack up enough damage (depending what my Squirtle did) and get ready to switch to Charizard to kill. I start with Ivy most of the time against Lucario. I do my best to keep the rotation going like that so I don't have to deal with his Aura with Ivy or Squirtle. Even though Lucario has an easy time hitting Charizard, Charizard has ways to defend himself. Anyway, just wanted to share my rotation for the battle.

 

[Charizard92]

I would say 45/55 is decent, though I'm inclined to say charizard's is 45/55 lucario's favor, or we could be gay and have matchup numbers in the decimals.

I'd say even. Lucario has aura sphere and will destroy Charizard if he tries to get airborne. Charizard has rock smash, and will Kill Lucario if he tries to get in his face. Lucario can Juggle Charizard, and vise versa. If Charizard grabs Lucario, game over. If Lucario gets a break, game over. It's all gonna come down to mere seconds who'll win the match.

PS: All Pokemon mentioned have an 87.5% chance of being male, so Squirtle, Ivysaur, Cahirzard, and Lucario, are likely to be male.

PPS: I also second Lucairo

PPPS: I play with PT so much that "second" means the guy I like sans PT.

 

[phi1ny3]

I'd say even. Lucario has aura sphere and will destroy Charizard if he tries to get airborne. Charizard has rock smash, and will Kill Lucario if he tries to get in his face. Lucario can Juggle Charizard, and vise versa. If Charizard grabs Lucario, game over. If Lucario gets a break, game over. It's all gonna come down to mere seconds who'll win the match.

PS: All Pokemon mentioned have an 87.5% chance of being male, so Squirtle, Ivysaur, Cahirzard, and Lucario, are likely to be male.

PPS: I also second Lucairo

PPPS: I play with PT so much that "second" means the guy I like sans PT.

It's also been implied through subtle clues that Brawl lucario is sir Aaron's, which means that it's a guaranteed guy.

 

[Fearmy]

It's also been implied through subtle clues that Brawl lucario is sir Aaron's, which means that it's a guaranteed guy.

Aaron, he lives in my state, been to tourney's with him

 

[Browny]

tcranter play meeeee

(btw this isnt a random request, i do main lucario and try to play against every character main in matchup threads )

 

[Charizard92]

It's also been implied through subtle clues that Brawl lucario is sir Aaron's, which means that it's a guaranteed guy.

This is very true.

 

[Steeler]

so like...

is it charizard neutral, ivy and squirt both slight disadvantage, overall neutral?

and how is the lucario aaron's??

 

[Charizard92]

A: Charizard is apparently neutral, Squirtle is at a 4:6 disadvantage, and Ivysaur is at a 45:55 Disadvantage.
B: Remember the top 2 average rule? Well, it would apply but there aren't any decimal ratios. So a 45:55 disadvantage for PT
C: In the 8th Pokmeon movie, an ancient Hero named Aaron had a Lucario, which could communicate telepathically (like this Lucario). Most other Lucario's in the Anime can't do this, so it is easy to infer that the Lucario in Brawl is the same as the one in the movie.

 

[phi1ny3]

A: Charizard is apparently neutral, Squirtle is at a 4:6 disadvantage, and Ivysaur is at a 45:55 Disadvantage.
B: Remember the top 2 average rule? Well, it would apply but there aren't any decimal ratios. So a 45:55 disadvantage for PT
C: In the 8th Pokmeon movie, an ancient Hero named Aaron had a Lucario, which could communicate telepathically (like this Lucario). Most other Lucario's in the Anime can't do this, so it is easy to infer that the Lucario in Brawl is the same as the one in the movie.

Also the fact that he's the only pokemon in Brawl that doesn't come out of a pokeball for his entrance (The lucario from the 8th movie lived prior to the invention of the pokeball).

 

[phi1ny3]

Double post: On with the discussion, enough with cameo crap! So, what does each pokemon do to counteract disadvantages/problems in the matchup? (like Charizard with Aura Sphere).