PMBR says they are redesigning recoveries

[Hinichii.ez.™]

.. Side b is good, but a fully mashed down b is much, much better. You get a height comparable to a full hop, if you can mash it all the out. The side b is fine and tbh, Mario's recovery isn't as AMAZIN as people wanna believe. Just don't pick a pillar stage and don't be afraid to venture off stage. He doesn't have a plethora of options, when you try to challenge his recovery.

 

[Ganreizu]

.. Side b is good, but a fully mashed down b is much, much better. You get a height comparable to a full hop, if you can mash it all the out. The side b is fine and tbh, Mario's recovery isn't as AMAZIN as people wanna believe. Just don't pick a pillar stage and don't be afraid to venture off stage. He doesn't have a plethora of options, when you try to challenge his recovery.

Assuming you're equipped challenge it in the first place. He has probably the highest priority aerial in the game after all, and cape doesn't do you any favors either.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Assuming you're equipped challenge it in the first place. He has probably the highest priority aerial in the game after all, and cape doesn't do you any favors either.

You forgot, fox, falco, mk, Lucas, Mewtwo and others are in this game??

 

[Ganreizu]

You forgot, fox, falco, mk, Lucas, Mewtwo and others are in this game??

I did not, in fact.

 

[WIZRD.Pro]

.. Side b is good, but a fully mashed down b is much, much better. You get a height comparable to a full hop, if you can mash it all the out. The side b is fine and tbh, Mario's recovery isn't as AMAZIN as people wanna believe. Just don't pick a pillar stage and don't be afraid to venture off stage. He doesn't have a plethora of options, when you try to challenge his recovery.

Very well said. Though I wouldn't mind reducing his Up-B height a bit or giving him a stall limit of 2 or 3 capes.

 

[Scrubby]

Mario recovers from really far, but as options goes, he's pretty limited. Gimping him is much more simple than it looks. Best moment is if he uses down b the moment he pops, its highly punishable.

 

[Player -0]

Fix the grab box. It grabs the ledge from super far away.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Fix the grab box. It grabs the ledge from super far away.

2 many up b's with rather big, grab boxes.

 

[Darkevilprice995]

I do hope that they become more balanced, but I'm sure the backroom is well aware of the complaints towards this.

 

[kaizo13]

Gimping him is much more simple than it looks. Best moment is if he uses down b the moment he pops, its highly punishable.

except a good mario doesn't down-b near the ledge because they know its unsafe.

 

[batistabus]

No gliding in Smash 4...your move PM.

 

[MLGF]

I'm for 3.5 having Sm4sh Shuttle Loop

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I'm for 3.5 having Sm4sh Shuttle Loop

Hell no

 

[Brikmaethor]

As long as I can still reverse Shuttle Loop to recover from under the stage, removing the glide is fine with me. It's the only truly redonkulous part of his recovery. Seeing as he is a light fast faller, I think it justifiable for Meta Knight to have better options than most for returning to the stage.

 

[DrinkingFood]

And that kind of mentality is why recoveries ended up the way they are. "A great recovery is totally fine for this character because of reason, reason, and/or reason!" You can find those kinds reasons for almost any ****ing character. If you want to tone down recoveries you need a goal which makes those reasons invalid; then you can't just give preferrance to characters who have good reasons because your goal of "play the mass majority of the game onstage" overrides those reasons. No, you do not need characters to have good recoveries to compensate for their susceptibility to being punished. Sheik was combo food in melee and light, with one of the worst recoveries, but still very cohesive as a character.

 

[Une]

i hope they ****ing nerfs samASS's recovery into the ground

what a goddamn obnoxious character

She already took like ****ing three minutes to come back to the stage in melee and noew she has a PROJECT M TETHER? WTF? And it's the longest one! Seriously that's almost like the worst thing ever second only to Mewtwo being in the game

also remove trashtwo's teleport

better yet remove him from the game

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Classic avatar, classic.

 

[MLGF]

I love how "redesign recoveries" means "BURN TO THE GROUND!"

Some recoveries in PM are over the top, those need to go. But considering there ARE melee characters with great recoveries (Peach, Jiggs, Samus, ****ING Mewtwo,) it's not like everything needs to burn.

Just stuff like being able to act out of teleports and glides that go from one wall of dreamland to the other.

 

[InfinityCollision]

You don't even know what the changes are besides the info we've gotten on Lucas and the global tether changes. Unless there's something you'd like to share with the group?

 

[MLGF]

No, I don't know anything. I just mean that people are complaining about recoveries like they should all go to hell, that's not gonna solve anything.

 

[InfinityCollision]

Peanut gallery's covered in salt, that's all.

 

[Narpas_sword]

i hope they ****ing nerfs samASS's recovery into the ground

what a goddamn obnoxious character

She already took like ****ing three minutes to come back to the stage in melee and noew she has a PROJECT M TETHER? WTF? And it's the longest one! Seriously that's almost like the worst thing ever second only to Mewtwo being in the game

also remove trashtwo's teleport

better yet remove him from the game

She had better recovery with the melee tether...

now it takes less time.

So, if you're ******** about her taking '3 min' to recover in melee, you should like brawl tether.
It means samus players can make it back in 30 seconds instead =)

 

[Player -0]

There are disadvantages and advantages to the melee tether and to the brawl tether. Someone's written it up before so I'm not going to go dig to find it.

It kind of goes like: Melee tether is more versatile and complex while Brawl's is easy and can get to the ledge almost all of the time.

 

[GP&B]

I think Melee wall grapples are straight better in every way from a design standpoint. High skill floor and ceiling allows for a more dynamic recovery without being unstoppable by a large chunk of the cast.

 

[Player -0]

I think Melee wall grapples are straight better in every way from a design standpoint. High skill floor and ceiling allows for a more dynamic recovery without being unstoppable by a large chunk of the cast.

I agree with this, I'm think about quoting the post of the thingy. Not sure which boards it was under though, I think it was either the Link or Samus boards. It MIGHT have been this thread but I don't think so.

Edit - Melee tether mechanics may be close to unstoppable like the Brawl ones but in hindsight you can counterpick stages to limit their usefulness. While in Brawl the person has to reel up a predetermined path, although they can do things to mix it up more.

 

[GP&B]

The big thing is that if you're forced to tag any part of the wall instead of the ledge itself, you do the hop. Actually, unless I'm wrong you always do the hop in Melee. That's the big part that balances out how incredibly useful they are otherwise.

 

[Narpas_sword]

You can do various tricks to avoind the hop. tether breaking etc.

you can also sweetspot in various places, not just the edge. Depending how the momentum carries you to the edge, the reel in can snap you to the edge.

 

[Exodo]

Bowser will get his Clown Ship as an Recovery buff

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

You don't even know what the changes are besides the info we've gotten on Lucas and the global tether changes. Unless there's something you'd like to share with the group?

I don't get paid enough to share

 

[Broasty]

Maybe it's me but Luigi's recovery is still absurdly slow. I know his horizontal air movement is suppose to be trash and his Side-B is his real recovery but it's unreliable, slow to execute and it even moves slowly if you don't get the pseudo-RNG and even if you do, you might over shoot. Combine this with how slippery he is, it's really tough recovering if at all as Luigi. Not to mention his slow fall speed makes throwing him upwards is also stupid easy.

His recovery is fine the way it is, if you throw out a fireball in the right place and time, you can prevent your opponent from getting you if you sweet spot the ledge via UpB or you can store his Green Missile (which can be farmed) for the sake of fast recovery. He should be easy to kill off-stage, he's an offensive character just like how all other based offensive characters (minus Lucas) have a hard time making it back alive.