PM Arts and Alts Thread

[GFooChombey]

I'd say JSR and Sonic have more in common than ninjas and Pokemon.
Anyways I'm going to repeat that I do have a problem with the JSR costume in concept, but it feels up my nostalgia like I expect from a Smash game. Ninja Squirtle feels more like Pikmin Suit Falcon. I absolutely love that costume, but it has no place in an official build.

 

[Nefnoj]

I'd say JSR and Sonic have more in common than ninjas and Pokemon.
Anyways I'm going to repeat that I do have a problem with the JSR costume in concept, but it feels up my nostalgia like I expect from a Smash game. Ninja Squirtle feels more like Pikmin Suit Falcon. I absolutely love that costume, but it has no place in an official build.

I don't think that's a good comparison... A Pikmin Suit is a bit more logical than a Ninja suit, as Olimar and his Pikmin interact heavily with Captain Falcon. You can see their characters develop, you can see them become emotionally connected. You should check out my fan-fiction on the matter: "Siblings in Subspace". Nanobuds said it was the best thing he's ever read.
I am joking and lying at the same time.

 

[Shin F.]

I'd say JSR and Sonic have more in common than ninjas and Pokemon.

Not really, given that Pokemon has ninja Pokemon like Ninjask / Greninja, and there are ninja dojos, ninja Gym Leaders, and so on.

Squirtle himself has the connection due to him being a water starter like Greninja. Although I think the costume was revealed before Greninja was revealed for Smash 4, Greninja did exist in the actual Pokemon games before then, so...

 

[GFooChombey]

Not really, given that Pokemon has ninja Pokemon like Ninjask / Greninja, and there are ninja dojos, ninja Gym Leaders, and so on.

Squirtle himself has the connection due to him being a water starter like Greninja. Although I think the costume was revealed before Greninja was revealed for Smash 4, Greninja did exist in the actual Pokemon games before then, so...

So design it to resemble Ninjask and Greninja. Hell, I'd be all over a Ninjask costume. I always led with him back in gen 4.

 

[Rᴏb]

it really isn't comparable though.

one one hand, you have sega's mascot wearing beat's cloth as a call back to a cult classic sega game
on the other, you have squirtle wearing ninja clothes because... ninjas are a thing in pokemon? great reasoning

might as well give ivysaur a nurse costume, because that makes just as much sense

 

[Shin F.]

it really isn't comparable though.

one one hand, you have sega's mascot wearing beat's cloth as a call back to a cult classic sega game
on the other, you have squirtle wearing ninja clothes because... ninjas are a thing in pokemon? great reasoning

might as well give ivysaur a nurse costume, because that makes just as much sense

He's not wearing ninja clothes because ninjas exist, silly.

He's wearing them because ninjas are awesome.

Jigglypuff would make a better Nurse costume. In fact, both Nurse Joy and Officer Jenny hats would be great for her.

 

[Nefnoj]

might as well give ivysaur a nurse costume, because that makes just as much sense

NOT MY MAIN!! ANYTHING BUT THAT!!

So design it to resemble Ninjask and Greninja. Hell, I'd be all over a Ninjask costume. I always led with him back in gen 4.

I had the Greninja idea a while ago, but the Ninjask idea is so much better.

Crappy concept: It wouldn't take much to canon-ify the Ninja Squirtle.

 

[GFooChombey]

Make the mask look like that, find a way to use the wind pattern, and give it that color scheme and I'll stop hating the costume. Just saying.

 

[Shin F.]

Make the mask look like that, find a way to use the wind pattern, and give it that color scheme and I'll stop hating the costume. Just saying.

I kind of like the costume the way it is right now (though I'd be fine with the mask, too), but what if he put on the mask instead of his sunglasses with his smash taunt?

 

[Comeback Kid]

Yes, the mask taunt idea is clever while keeping the costume's integrity intact.

It's almost like what is fun is more important to the team than any of these rationalizations against it. Maybe if they put a bandanna from the games on Ninja Squirtle then we found the magic loophole that other characters get? The loophole that stops this madness for good.

 

[Nefnoj]

Make the mask look like that, find a way to use the wind pattern, and give it that color scheme and I'll stop hating the costume. Just saying.

Another crappy concept, this one's in a spoiler because the other one made me uncomfortable.

Spoiler

It really wouldn't take a lot to canon-ify Squirtle. I could probably model both of those ideas out if I weren't lazy.

 

[ConDeeCas]

Another crappy concept, this one's in a spoiler because the other one made me uncomfortable.

Spoiler

View attachment 71607
It really wouldn't take a lot to canon-ify Squirtle. I could probably model both of those ideas out if I weren't lazy.

Dang Neffy you've been having a lot of not horrible ideas!

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

The costume is just gross man

And I'm disappointed that they didnt make firefighter squirtle, something that was actually canon and one of the most memorable things about the squirtle squad

Edit: as for JSR Sonic, There's several games that Sonic and Beat appear in together (The sega racing games, super star tennis) along with Sonic being referenced in JSR itself, with a character named Garam wearing his skull on a necklace. This alt didnt come out of nowhere

Firefighter squirtle would be cool. However, I don't think it will work. The squirtles wear their coats over their shells, so it would look odd whenever squirtle withdrew into his shell.

 

[PlateProp]

Firefighter squirtle would be cool. However, I don't think it will work. The squirtles wear their coats over their shells, so it would look odd whenever squirtle withdrew into his shell.

Modifications could be made so that they wore it just on the body, simular to the ninja costume. It doesnt have to be exactly like the show. In fact I think that it would look pretty dope if it had a firefighting helmet, along with Squirtle pulling a gas mask instead of shades as the secret taunt (or a shade shaped gas mask for extra swag) but that's probably just wishful thinking.

 

[StarWaffle]

hate to be that kind of guy, but really man - this question was answered literally first post this page...

My bad. I was just officially confirming what he had already said.

As for Shinobi Squirtle... Didn't mean to offend so many people with it

My reasoning behind it was 3 things:
-Greninja: He had just been announced and squirtle had pretty much been deconfirmed by them also revealing solo zard. Thought it would be a funny nod to him being replaced by the *new* cooler ninja water starter.

-Ninja Turtles: I ****ing love puns (is it even a pun? Idk I thought it was funny). We even revealed Shinobi Squirtle very soon after the ( albeit awful) release of the tmnt movie.

-Squirtle's playstyle: he's fast and slick. He really plays like a mini sheik. His movements really suited a ninja costume I felt.

It was a combination of those 3 reasons. If even one weren't there, Shinobi Squirtle would have never been created.

I apologize for it not being as canon as a lot of people would have liked it to be. But it is what it is. There won't be any augmentations to the costume in the future to make it more greninja like (maybe a recolor?) Only thing that might happen is for Squirtle to actually throw his (water) Shurriken for his diwn-b

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

I think it'd be cool to give Ivysaur a costume based on the pokemon ranger class, they often use grass pokemon in the main series and it represents an entire sub-series, not to mention the entire goal of the pokemon rangers is help defend nature, linking with the grass typing once again. There are a variety of characters you can base it on, there's the generic ranger class in the main game or even one of the six player characters in the Ranger games.

 

[A6stringthing (A6ST)]

I wonder how progress on the Roy alt is coming along. Haven't heard about it in a while.

 

[Nefnoj]

-Ninja Turtles: I ****ing love puns (is it even a pun? Idk I thought it was funny). We even revealed Shinobi Squirtle very soon after the ( albeit awful) release of the tmnt movie.

This part really bothers me, and I was really hoping it wasn't true. A vague cultural reference in Smash Bros. that you can't really tell is a direct cultural reference by the design, and only by the concept? :\

-Greninja: He had just been announced and squirtle had pretty much been deconfirmed by them also revealing solo zard. Thought it would be a funny nod to him being replaced by the *new* cooler ninja water starter.

This part kind of makes me a bit more comfortable....

I apologize for it not being as canon as a lot of people would have liked it to be. But it is what it is. There won't be any augmentations to the costume in the future to make it more greninja like (maybe a recolor?)

Why not? It wouldn't be the first time the team adjusted a few costumes and had something coincidentally featured in Sm4sh and Project M, and from the varoius ideas thrown out - wouldn't take a lot of changes to make it canon and meet Project M's standards. And we were barely brainstorming there, there are so many Ninja-ish Pokémon that Squirtle can half-cosplay as. Squirtle could add a few bands and it could become a Hitmonlee or Croagunk costume. The pattern could be changed and it could become a Sawk or Throh costume... So many infinite possibilities!

Spoiler: Actual Ninjas:

Spoiler

Turns out a lot of trainers in the animé wear blue.

 

[GunBuster]

So green Hill Zone should get a Z stage select that's like the Death Egg Zone or something
you know, a place where those last stage vocal track BGMs that are on it can play and not feel terribly out of place

discuss.

 

[Nefnoj]

So green Hill Zone should get a Z stage select that's like the Death Egg Zone or something
you know, a place where those last stage vocal track BGMs that are on it can play and not feel terribly out of place

discuss.

I hate most of Sonic's music, but I'm definitely not opposed to more stages. I thought I heard from Llama Juice or Sandfall that the Project M Team is hoping to Warioland-ify more of the stages: Norfair, Skyworld, and a few others. I don't think the Sonic stage is in horrible need of a redesign, but I definitely wouldn't be opposed to it. The Sonic universe is huge, and has a lot of potential.

In other words - yes.

 

[CBO0tz]

I hate most of Sonic's music, but I'm definitely not opposed to more stages. I thought I heard from Llama Juice or Sandfall that the Project M Team is hoping to Warioland-ify more of the stages: Norfair, Skyworld, and a few others. I don't think the Sonic stage is in horrible need of a redesign, but I definitely wouldn't be opposed to it. The Sonic universe is huge, and has a lot of potential.

In other words - yes.

I was just thinking of how they could aesthetically change a Metroid map to make it fit more in line with the game's character style.
Frigate Orpheon definitely should be changed to something different, it's not a very iconic Metroid location. Maybe switch it to something on Tallon IV?

Skyworld needs to be replaced with something, but I'm too lazy to figure out with what.

 

[Shin F.]

I was just thinking of how they could aesthetically change a Metroid map to make it fit more in line with the game's character style.
Frigate Orpheon definitely should be changed to something different, it's not a very iconic Metroid location. Maybe switch it to something on Tallon IV?

Skyworld needs to be replaced with something, but I'm too lazy to figure out with what.

Tallon Overworld would be nice.

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

So green Hill Zone should get a Z stage select that's like the Death Egg Zone or something
you know, a place where those last stage vocal track BGMs that are on it can play and not feel terribly out of place

discuss.

I still think it would be cool if Z alts functioned as "alternate costumes" for stages. Aesthetically different, but functionally the same. That's basically what the N64 z alts are, but they could expand it to other You could get Ashleyware for Wario Land, Moonside for Fourside, or different Sonic zones as mentioned. I also wouldn't if some of the Z alts served as hazardless versions of stages. Non hazard Spear Pillar, anyone?

 

[Nefnoj]

I was just thinking of how they could aesthetically change a Metroid map to make it fit more in line with the game's character style.
Frigate Orpheon definitely should be changed to something different, it's not a very iconic Metroid location. Maybe switch it to something on Tallon IV?

It's pretty iconic to me, I think it just needs to be adjusted... If they gave it the crashed Frigate Orpheon look, all underwatery, they could give it a lot of cool animated mechanics, maybe make flipping slower or have a platform to become more natural.
Alternatively, this person had a great idea for it:

I still have a beef with the Parasite Queen just sitting there doing nothing without affecting gameplay.

Skyworld needs to be replaced with something, but I'm too lazy to figure out with what.

I've played the one on the 3DS - and there is a lot of potential... There's a version of Skyworld in it that's all sad and beat up, I think they could give Brawl Skyworld that version, while leaving the Project M version as standard as it is, since Brawl Skyworld falls apart when you beat on it.

I still think it would be cool if Z alts functioned as "alternate costumes" for stages. Aesthetically different, but functionally the same. That's basically what the N64 z alts are, but they could expand it to other You could get Ashleyware for Wario Land, Moonside for Fourside, or different Sonic zones as mentioned. I also wouldn't if some of the Z alts served as hazardless versions of stages. Non hazard Spear Pillar, anyone?

This is the best idea. It could also give the Project M team a chance to HD-ify some pre-existing 64 alts and make more original Wario Landy stages, I would love to see HD Zebes or Yoshi's Story. Moonside could also implement the new glowey system!
Throwing this out there - I really really hate Cresselia. They should retexture each Spear Pillar so you know what you're dealing with before totally getting slaughtered by stupid Cresselia.

 

[GunBuster]

I hate most of Sonic's music,

I certainly hope you mean the selection he got in Brawl, because yes, there's much better in the series. hell, it's most usually the only consistently good part of the later games.

I may just be saying this because thematically, while it could work with the likes of Live and Learn and Open your Heart, I want a stage that I can additionally throw some of the Sonic games' later level musics on. and E-102 Gamma's theme.

but I'm definitely not opposed to more stages. I thought I heard from Llama Juice or Sandfall that the Project M Team is hoping to Warioland-ify more of the stages

well I like the sound of this.

 

[CBO0tz]

I've played the one on the 3DS - and there is a lot of potential... There's a version of Skyworld in it that's all sad and beat up, I think they could give Brawl Skyworld that version, while leaving the Project M version as standard as it is, since Brawl Skyworld falls apart when you beat on it.

Sounds cool. I wouldn't mind also seeing an NES Kid Icarus stage alt too though.

 

[archedmaid]

A Sonic stage based off of Ice Cap, Hydro City, Hidden Palace, or any Boss Stages would be nice.

S&K Hidden Palace, probably similar to the Metal Caverns stage, but with the super emeralds glowing in the background. Robotnik can fly around with his grabber too trying to steal the master emerald.

 

[GunBuster]

A Sonic stage based off of Ice Cap, Hydro City, Hidden Palace, or any Boss Stages would be nice.

S&K Hidden Palace, probably similar to the Metal Caverns stage, but with the super emeralds glowing in the background. Robotnik can fly around with his grabber too trying to steal the master emerald.

> a hidden palace stage

You know what? This is much better. The super emeralds could be the platforms themselves, just like in Sonic and knuckles. We need this. Especially if we start chuckling soon.

 

[DocStrange]

I think a cool thing to do to Norfair would be to turn it into Tourian and have Mother Brain in the background and maybe some Metroids floating around.

I really hope the team gets around to doing something with Spear Pillar and Shadow Moses to make them a little more competitive. Maybe for Spear you could limit the Pokemon interactions to just breaking parts of the stage (maybe keep the cave underneath but make the middle platform pass through?) Shadow Moses really just needs the pillars pushed back and the walk offs removed.

 

[GunBuster]

Shadow Moses really just needs the pillars pushed back and the walk offs removed.

or a stage that's based off of the roof you fight the HIND D on in the original MGS.

 

[archedmaid]

> a hidden palace stage

You know what? This is much better. The super emeralds could be the platforms themselves, just like in Sonic and knuckles. We need this. Especially if we start chuckling soon.

It would be pretty nice to see how the PMDT make the crashed death egg look.

 

[GunBuster]

It would be pretty nice to see how the PMDT make the crashed death egg look.

and with that, i had to throw something together.

Spoiler

simple, sure, but that's just me and my mad copypaste paint skills.

I can only Imagine what the PM art team could potentially do to it. there's a lot of stuff in the tileset from this zone that could easily make up background details, and i'd like to see the ancient mural of super sonic fighting robotnik hidden somewhere.

 

[archedmaid]

The background color just screams Project M.

 

[Cubelarooso]

If there's one costume I would personally use all the time, it's Gold's-hat Pikachu. I'm surprised it isn't already in the game, what with Red's hat (so there's already model) and Brendan's bandana, and how many other characters have Game of Death color schemes. I hope the fact that Smash 4 has one just makes it more likely that we'll get the classic design, rather than none at all.

 

[Nefnoj]

If there's one costume I would personally use all the time, it's Gold's-hat Pikachu. I'm surprised it isn't already in the game, what with Red's hat (so there's already model) and Brendan's bandana, and how many other characters have Game of Death color schemes. I hope the fact that Smash 4 has one just makes it more likely that we'll get the classic design, rather than none at all.

I wouldn't be opposed to that, though if they did, I think they should do something to make it a bit unique. Tilt it backwards? I wouldn't know, my nostalgia lies not with Gold and Silver, I'm a Gen III fan.

Speaking of Pikachu, I made some crappy concepts. What if each hat was converted to full costumes?

I didn't change the party hat, pirate hat, or default costume because they're obviously perfect. I think each hat should have accessories to correspond with their source material: The red one gets a vest from the Pokémon trainer or a Fisherman, green gets a Ruby and Saphire Satchel thingy, blue becomes Pichuy, and the one with Pokémon trainer's hat, is already perfect, but could get a tiny backpack.

 

[4tlas]

I obviously haven't read through 304 pages, so sorry if I say something that has been said before.

Zelda and Sheik have only 1 alternate costume (Ocarina), and while team colors could totally be a thing, I think its cool to try and think of more unique ideas. That seems to be the point of this thread, anyway. Since Zelda and Sheik can transform, any alt you create for one has to have a counterpart. Zelda and Sheik are both graceful, but Zelda acts through wisdom and Sheik is swift. So I have 2 ideas.

1) The first is a sort of Dark/Light Zelda/Sheik, taking the normal wise Zelda and swift Sheik and swapping their Princess and Ninja attributes. Zelda would look like she does in Twilight Princess, while Sheik would pay homage to Ezio Auditore's outfit.

2) The second is a Secret Agent Zelda/Sheik, adding some mystery to both halves. Zelda would look like a famous girl wearing a masquerade mask (like wearing Cinderella or Belle's dress) and Sheik would wear a slim sexy sneaking suit, kind of like ZSS.

I'd love some feedback. Maybe this inspires some other cool ideas for the duo.

 

[Nefnoj]

Those are cool, unique ideas, but they don't follow the rules very well. They don't reference a specific instance in any Zelda series, except maybe a situation or two in Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland.

Oh, and I would like to point out how sad I am that Zelda's Ocarina of Time palette swap didn't get replaced... That means that the chance of her white Melee palette swap is even more limited. That one was my favourite.


IDEA. So Tock's Minish Cap is basically the Wii ROB for Toon Link - but there's a big problem: The only differences between it and the standard swap are very insignificant: A different shading in the belt, a different sword, very easily confused. I've been trying to think of ways that the hue of Link's tunic could change, but it's hard to think of "different green". So what if Link - instead of wearing a traditional tunic, wore something more of Minish origin?

Spoiler

His tunic could be composed of leaves stitched together, he could have those grass band thingies, maybe a little darker hair? He could even use the legendary Four Sword! It wouldn't be a vastly different outfit either, it would somewhat semi-alty! This piece of artwork depicts him with the mirror shield:

Spoiler

http://zeldawiki.org/images/3/3a/Darkhyrulecastle.jpg[/spoiler]

 

[4tlas]

Those are cool, unique ideas, but they don't follow the rules very well. They don't reference a specific instance in any Zelda series, except maybe a situation or two in Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland.

Oh, and I would like to point out how sad I am that Zelda's Ocarina of Time palette swap didn't get replaced... That means that the chance of her white Melee palette swap is even more limited. That one was my favourite.

I agree about the Brawl version of the Melee default palette not getting replaced, as now there are sort of 2 Melee Zelda/Sheik costumes.

I'm not exactly sure which rules you are suggesting. I didn't see any rules in the OP, so I thought this was just for suggesting ideas. Squirtle has a costume referencing Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Sonic has a Jet Set Radio costume, and Lucario has Ryu's outfit, so I don't see how this fails whatever metric those are passing. What did I miss?

 

[NinfanNanz]

I agree about the Brawl version of the Melee default palette not getting replaced, as now there are sort of 2 Melee Zelda/Sheik costumes.

I'm not exactly sure which rules you are suggesting. I didn't see any rules in the OP, so I thought this was just for suggesting ideas. Squirtle has a costume referencing Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Sonic has a Jet Set Radio costume, and Lucario has Ryu's outfit, so I don't see how this fails whatever metric those are passing. What did I miss?

Squirtle's costume is not a reference of TMNT i think. You did just miss this discussion, which is funny, but he lacks a reference to anything I believe. Lucario's outfit is not based on Ryu, it is based on a black belt trainer (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Black_Belt_(Trainer_class)). JSR Sonic works because it falls within Sega universe and fits his character imo. The biggest rule of the characters is that since the characters must use the same voice as the brawl one due to current techinical limitations, The must be the "same" character. It's why we have Sonic semi-alts instead of Shadow, Silver and Tails. You would have the three shouting sonic noises. They also gotta feel like the character, since they are the "same" one. A masquerade Zelda is a great idea, but it doesn't convey Zelda. That's my take though. Sorry if this sounded mean, I didn't mean it that way! just wanted to let you know!

I secretly pray for the day when high school student Marth becomes an alt costume we can use.

 

[GunBuster]

I secretly pray for the day when high school student Marth becomes an alt costume we can use.

did you HAVE to remind me #FE was a thing.


also Lucario's fighting Gi isn't really a reference to the blackbelt pokemon trainers - "The main costume uses the "Focus Band" and "Expert's Belt", with a fighter/steel type symbol on the back." it's just an outfit that references things about him and fits thematically.