PM Arts and Alts Thread

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

Those are cool, unique ideas, but they don't follow the rules very well. They don't reference a specific instance in any Zelda series, except maybe a situation or two in Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland.

Oh, and I would like to point out how sad I am that Zelda's Ocarina of Time palette swap didn't get replaced... That means that the chance of her white Melee palette swap is even more limited. That one was my favourite.


IDEA. So Tock's Minish Cap is basically the Wii ROB for Toon Link - but there's a big problem: The only differences between it and the standard swap are very insignificant: A different shading in the belt, a different sword, very easily confused. I've been trying to think of ways that the hue of Link's tunic could change, but it's hard to think of "different green". So what if Link - instead of wearing a traditional tunic, wore something more of Minish origin?

Spoiler

His tunic could be composed of leaves stitched together, he could have those grass band thingies, maybe a little darker hair? He could even use the legendary Four Sword! It wouldn't be a vastly different outfit either, it would somewhat semi-alty! This piece of artwork depicts him with the mirror shield:

Spoiler

http://zeldawiki.org/images/3/3a/Darkhyrulecastle.jpg[/spoiler]

Spoiler

That's not a bad idea for a T.Link costume, but it's also not conductor Link.

 

[NinfanNanz]

View attachment 72399

did you HAVE to remind me #FE was a thing.


also Lucario's fighting Gi isn't really a reference to the blackbelt pokemon trainers - "The main costume uses the "Focus Band" and "Expert's Belt", with a fighter/steel type symbol on the back." it's just an outfit that references things about him and fits thematically.

Hahah! I actually was not thinking about that game at all! I just thought that all the characters would look great in stereotypical japanese anime high school uniforms similar to these two.

Lucario alt costume: Really? I thought I remember PMDT saying something along the black belt reference. *shrugs*

 

[Nanobuds]

http://www.reddit.com/r/ssbpm/comments/3k4dm6/_/

 

[NinfanNanz]

I feel so lied to right now............but I love it. Hbox will now rule Project M. Great job KingJigglypuff and Tock and Nano! Looks awesome. AND IT HAS A SPEC MAP?! so cool!

 

[Draco_The]

Breast physics when.

 

[4tlas]

Squirtle's costume is not a reference of TMNT i think. You did just miss this discussion, which is funny, but he lacks a reference to anything I believe. Lucario's outfit is not based on Ryu, it is based on a black belt trainer (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Black_Belt_(Trainer_class)). JSR Sonic works because it falls within Sega universe and fits his character imo. The biggest rule of the characters is that since the characters must use the same voice as the brawl one due to current techinical limitations, The must be the "same" character. It's why we have Sonic semi-alts instead of Shadow, Silver and Tails. You would have the three shouting sonic noises. They also gotta feel like the character, since they are the "same" one. A masquerade Zelda is a great idea, but it doesn't convey Zelda. That's my take though. Sorry if this sounded mean, I didn't mean it that way! just wanted to let you know!

Thank you very much for the explanation! It didn't sound mean at all.

I feel like the Secret Agent idea might be a little off since a masquerade Zelda is supposed to look like she's someone else, but I could still see Twilight Princess Zelda with Assasins Creed Sheik work. They are just supposed to be clothes, I don't want to use someone else's model. It still doesn't seem too weird to me. If the masquerade doesn't work, how about a suit? Dapper lady at the party, Transform to Sheik to sneak around and find the diamond vault?

 

[GunBuster]

Lucario alt costume: Really? I thought I remember PMDT saying something along the black belt reference. *shrugs*

well, i'm quoting the written passage from the initial unveiling of it on the PM website.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ssbpm/comments/3k4dm6/_/

OH HEY

A thing

Thank you very much for the explanation! It didn't sound mean at all.

I feel like the Secret Agent idea might be a little off since a masquerade Zelda is supposed to look like she's someone else, but I could still see Twilight Princess Zelda with Assasins Creed Sheik work. They are just supposed to be clothes, I don't want to use someone else's model. It still doesn't seem too weird to me. If the masquerade doesn't work, how about a suit? Dapper lady at the party, Transform to Sheik to sneak around and find the diamond vault?

okay. straight up.
why would Smash reference Assassin's Creed in any way, shape or form?

 

[Shin F.]

Breast physics when.

You mean you didn't hear?
http://kc-mm.com/2015/07/21/highly-antitscipated-hack/

why would Smash reference Assassin's Creed in any way, shape or form?

It would be really cool, but I'm in agreement here.

 

[Draco_The]

You mean you didn't hear?
http://kc-mm.com/2015/07/21/highly-antitscipated-hack/

I knew about it, but it doesn't use breast physics. You have to animate them like any other object, and that means that it needs a FitMotionEtc file to go along with the costume.

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

Spoiler

Here come the headbands.

 

[4tlas]

okay. straight up.
why would Smash reference Assassin's Creed in any way, shape or form?

Why not? Why does Smash have Snake in it? Why do we have a Jet Set reference? Why does Lucario have moves and a mechanic straight out of Street Fighter?

The PMDT seem willing to reference and draw from things outside of Nintendo, and even Sakurai grabbed things from outside Nintendo (many of Snakes moves were never in the games that were on Nintendo systems). What's so bad about having Assassin's Creed on the game's ninja?

 

[Shin F.]

Characters will not have references to anything outside their original series.

They've not stuck super strictly to it as long as it's close enough (like with JSR Sonic), but Assassin's Creed seems too far out there from Zelda.

 

[Nefnoj]

Why not? Why does Smash have Snake in it? Why do we have a Jet Set reference? Why does Lucario have moves and a mechanic straight out of Street Fighter?

The PMDT seem willing to reference and draw from things outside of Nintendo, and even Sakurai grabbed things from outside Nintendo (many of Snakes moves were never in the games that were on Nintendo systems). What's so bad about having Assassin's Creed on the game's ninja?

Snake was included because Hideo Kojima and Master Hero Soccer Guy are bros, and Hideo's son plays Smash Bros. The Jet Set Reference is due to Sega's habit of crossover stuff. Lucario doesn't have moves nor mechanics from Street Fighter, they simply made him behave like a Fighting Pokémon, where before, he behaved more akin to a Psychic or something else. One of Project M's biggest priorities is to keep references for characters to their game series. Assassin's Creed isn't iconic to Nintendo at all, has no relation to Smash Bros., and no relation to Zelda.

 

[4tlas]

They've not stuck super strictly to it as long as it's close enough (like with JSR Sonic), but Assassin's Creed seems too far out there from Zelda.

I had not seen that comment before, where did you find that quote?

Snake was included because Hideo Kojima and Master Hero Soccer Guy are bros, and Hideo's son plays Smash Bros. The Jet Set Reference is due to Sega's habit of crossover stuff. Lucario doesn't have moves nor mechanics from Street Fighter, they simply made him behave like a Fighting Pokémon, where before, he behaved more akin to a Psychic or something else. One of Project M's biggest priorities is to keep references for characters to their game series. Assassin's Creed isn't iconic to Nintendo at all, has no relation to Smash Bros., and no relation to Zelda.

Lucario's upsmash and nair are straight off of Ryu's moveset, and the cancel mechanic also comes from a fighter (I think its street fighter).

I understand that you are saying there is no relation, but there is also no real relation between Snake and a party fighting game, Lucario and a traditional fighting game, or Squirtle and ninjas. Jet Set I guess you can say has a slight relation to Sonic, so I will stop bringing that one up.

 

[Shin F.]

I had not seen that comment before, where did you find that quote?

From this thread. Click the arrow beside "Nanobuds said" to go to it.

Lucario's upsmash and nair are straight off of Ryu's moveset, and the cancel mechanic also comes from a fighter (I think its street fighter).

This is absolutely true, but the rule applies to costumes as opposed to moves.

I understand that you are saying there is no relation, but there is also no real relation between Snake and a party fighting game, Lucario and a traditional fighting game, or Squirtle and ninjas. Jet Set I guess you can say has a slight relation to Sonic, so I will stop bringing that one up.

Snake was Sakurai's decision. The PMDT have their own rules that they follow, regardless of what's done in other Smash games. Squirtle does have sort of a connection to ninjas - he's this game's water starter Pokemon, a role which is Greninja's in Smash 4.

 

[GFooChombey]

http://www.reddit.com/r/ssbpm/comments/3k4dm6/_/

We knew this was coming.

You all said it wasn't possible, but we knew.

Spoiler

So what happens to green team Jiggs? Does it become headband? Does it stay sleepy cap? Does sleepy cap get recolored purple?

 

[4tlas]

From this thread. Click the arrow beside "Nanobuds said" to go to it.
This is absolutely true, but the rule applies to costumes as opposed to moves.

Snake was Sakurai's decision. The PMDT have their own rules that they follow, regardless of what's done in other Smash games. Squirtle does have sort of a connection to ninjas - he's this game's water starter Pokemon, a role which is Greninja's in Smash 4.

I never knew I could do that with quotes, thanks!

I suppose I am treating it like the logic should apply universally. Sakurai already ruined the rule of Smash-related only, so I figured PMDT would stop trying to enforce it. I also assumed that if PMDT were willing to draw mechanics from other games then costumes would be even more reasonable since they are just costumes, but I suppose not.

I'm also quite amused that Nanobud's picture is Ezio from Soul Calibur V

 

[Draco_The]

Inspired by Ryu? Maybe. Copy & paste? No. Lucario's up smash and N air are normals, not specials. The up smash hits a lot of times, can be canceled into a jump on hit, can be charged and lacks invincibility, while the N air doesn't have any effect on Lucario's momentum which is a key trait of the air Tatsumaki. The hit cancel mechanic is also very different to what you can find in any Street Fighter game.

The reason why no one has a problem with things from Metal Gear Solid being in PM is because Brawl already had content from that series. It's not only because legal issues and crap but also because it makes the mod look genuine. Otherwise what's stopping you from having Dragon Ball references in the mod?

 

[Mordo]

http://www.reddit.com/r/ssbpm/comments/3k4dm6/_/

My only complaint is that the band sits so low on her face that it clips over her right eye.

 

[4tlas]

Inspired by Ryu? Maybe. Copy & paste? No. Lucario's up smash and N air are normals, not specials. The up smash hits a lot of times, can be canceled into a jump on hit, can be charged and lacks invincibility, while the N air doesn't have any effect on Lucario's momentum which is a key trait of the air Tatsumaki. The hit cancel mechanic is also very different to what you can find in any Street Fighter game.

The reason why no one has a problem with things from Metal Gear Solid being in PM is because Brawl already had content from that series. It's not only because legal issues and crap but also because it makes the mod look genuine. Otherwise what's stopping you from having Dragon Ball references in the mod?

As for Lucario having Ryu moves, those changes you described seem to be a consequence of being in a different engine and game style. I consider that copy-paste, but I don't think inspiration is a bad way of describing it.

What is stopping you from having Dragon Ball references in the mod? Anything can be done in good taste. There is an excellent Vegeta Falco and Goku Fox already out there and they don't look remotely out of place in my opinion. When done well, nothing looks like it doesn't belong.

 

[Draco_The]

Regarding people saying that the PMDT lied about that not being possible (IDK if it was serious or not but just in case), AFAIK they didn't lie.

Adding bones to a model was possible for quite a while now, but it always messed the enumeration. Animations only use the names of the bones as a reference so they will never look bad no matter where you add bones, but the moveset file uses the bone numbers instead for pretty much everything (model changer bone groups, bone references for TransN and other important bones, collisions, gfx, etc), which means that if you add a bone somewhere you'll need to change every bone number referenced in the moveset file that got changed, which means that it's not possible to have a single costume with a different bone structure without having major issues.

One of the newest versions of BrawlBox made it so when you add a bone anywhere it doesn't start counting from 0 again to then assign numbers starting from the highest bone in the structure, but instead it just continues the enumeration no matter where you add the bone. So if the ThrowN bone is #162 and you add a child bone to a higher bone in the structure the new bone will be #163 and the ThrowN bone will still be #162 so there won't be any problems with either the animation nor the moveset file.
And that example comes from MK R.O.B. They used this trick to add bones for the wheels and the mufflers so they could be animated, and now they used it again to add bones for Jigglypuff's headband to give it physics.

 

[Nefnoj]

Regarding people saying that the PMDT lied about that not being possible (IDK if it was serious or not but just in case), AFAIK they didn't lie.

Adding bones to a model was possible for quite a while now, but it always messed the enumeration. Animations only use the names of the bones as a reference so they will never look bad no matter where you add bones, but the moveset file uses the bone numbers instead for pretty much everything (model changer bone groups, bone references for TransN and other important bones, collisions, gfx, etc), which means that if you add a bone somewhere you'll need to change every bone number referenced in the moveset file that got changed, which means that it's not possible to have a single costume with a different bone structure without having major issues.

One of the newest versions of BrawlBox made it so when you add a bone anywhere it doesn't start counting from 0 again to then assign numbers starting from the highest bone in the structure, but instead it just continues the enumeration no matter where you add the bone. So if the ThrowN bone is #162 and you add a child bone to a higher bone in the structure the new bone will be #163 and the ThrowN bone will still be #162 so there won't be any problems with either the animation nor the moveset file.
And that example comes from MK R.O.B. They used this trick to add bones for the wheels and the mufflers so they could be animated, and now they used it again to add bones for Jigglypuff's headband to give it physics.

TL;DR:

They made it so that things can have more things without breaking other things.

 

[NinfanNanz]

Master Hero Soccer Guy .

Nefnoj.........you are amazing.

-snip-

Oh wow. I was mostly kidding, but that's actually really cool! Thanks for the awesome explanation.
And thanks Nefnoj for the TLDR. Made that easier to understand.

 

[GunBuster]

Nefnoj.........you are amazing.

There are variations of that. I prefer "mashed potato soccer guy".

 

[NinfanNanz]

I have never heard of these. This thread is wonderful and I am so glad it exists. Thank you.

 

[GFooChombey]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/3k4dm6/project_m_art_tuesday_headband_jigglypuff/cuuukz1

We're toying with the idea of adding more hats to make another team color set.

Rev up those ideas, Jigglypuff boys.

I think it should go without saying that blue will be the bow from 64/Melee. I would have said use Pokemon Trainer's hat for Red, but Pikachu claimed that one. Maybe Leaf or Lucas' hat.

 

[A6stringthing (A6ST)]

Speaking of Jigs, Marker Smash Taunt when?

 

[Nefnoj]

After consulting with my brother, a Jigglypuff main since the 64 days, still is to this day, from game-to-game, we've both come to the conclusion that Jigglypuff needs a Mad Max costume.

I was joking.
But he is not.
com

Joking on my part aside, I do think Jiggs should have an absolutely terrifying cosmetic. After all - the one thought that enters any sensible player's mind when they see they're going against a Jigglypuff main consists mostly of swears, screams, and crying. Anyone know of any brutal Pokémon items? She also needs a little more purple. She has 8 slots if you include the new sash. They could reuse the barber shop hat for a red team colour if need be. We need more purple.

 

[archedmaid]

Why not? Why does Smash have Snake in it? Why do we have a Jet Set reference? Why does Lucario have moves and a mechanic straight out of Street Fighter

Didn't the first two Metal Gear games come out on NES? Isn't that like Nintendo seniority?

 

[4tlas]

Didn't the first two Metal Gear games come out on NES? Isn't that like Nintendo seniority?

Yes, but that one was a point against things having to feel in-universe. Things that aren't Nintendo style games are still valid to consider. Snake is relatively realistic and gritty in comparison to the rest of the cast.

 

[archedmaid]

True, but weren't a lot of NES games gritty? they should have went with Geomon in my opinion, hes from the same company right?

 

[GunBuster]

Yes, but that one was a point against things having to feel in-universe. Things that aren't Nintendo style games are still valid to consider. Snake is relatively realistic and gritty in comparison to the rest of the cast.

look, can you just accept the fact that snake and MGS gets a free pass because Kojima/Sakurai?
Assassin's creed doesn't even have that, and it's just silly to try reference it.

 

[4tlas]

look, can you just accept the fact that snake and MGS gets a free pass because Kojima/Sakurai?
Assassin's creed doesn't even have that, and it's just silly to try reference it.

Uh, yes I can. I already stopped arguing, he was just asking me about what I was talking about so I indulged him. What's your problem?

 

[Nefnoj]

Uh, yes I can. I already stopped arguing, he was just asking me about what I was talking about so I indulged him. What's your problem?

Actually, he was asking a yes-or-no question. Two to be precise! Though I wish more characters got in Smash because the developers are bros. The history behind Snake's inclusion is just perfect.

 

[4tlas]

Actually, he was asking a yes-or-no question. Two to be precise! Though I wish more characters got in Smash because the developers are bros. The history behind Snake's inclusion is just perfect.

Yes, but I assumed the next question would then be "so if you knew that and agree that that's what it means, why'd you bring it up" so I elaborated! I'm sorry my suggestion seemed to annoy DEM GREEN EYES. I'll leave now.

 

[CBO0tz]

http://www.reddit.com/r/ssbpm/comments/3k4dm6/_/

Oh, nice you guys got that working.
For extra recolors to go along with that headband, I say pick the Nurse Joy/Officer Jenny hats, and the Smash 64 bows.
Unless you can't because Smash 4 has those too.. In which case, the people want May's bandana.

 

[GFooChombey]

Officer Jenny.

Eh.. I feel like we have enough references to the anime already. The games need more love.

 

[Nefnoj]

Eh.. I feel like we have enough references to the anime already. The games need more love.

Especially in terms of sounds, I get so tired of hearing "IVY, IVYYY, IVY, IVY, IVY, IVYYY, IVY, IVY" over and over, especially since the name thing really isn't much a game thing. Maybe each Pokémon's entrance sound could be their Pokédex sound, akin to Mewtwo's?

 

[CBO0tz]

Eh.. I feel like we have enough references to the anime already. The games need more love.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Plus it'd put more originality between Project M and Smash 4.

So some people want May's ORAS bandana, but I dunno if that's stretching past PMDT's rules of nothing outside what's already in the game is allowed because it was released past Brawl's release.

And the way May wears bandanas in both games would look weird on Jiggs because of the tuft of pink hair/fur/blubber on her head being around the same place.

Spoiler

So if the modern May bandana is the only one that can be worked onto her, I'll be happy anyway.
This seems like a good opportunity to talk about other Pokemon related stuff too! Examples:
Pikachu should get his green hat next while we're bringing Melee stuff back. And I still stick to the idea that Pikachu should get at least one team colored bandana tied around his neck to reference Mystery Dungeon boxart covers.

Spoiler

Then his last alt slot can be used to bring back Gold/Ethan's hat backwards!!

Does anybody have any ideas for a Spear Pillar alt? I think the Brawl Spear Pillar should be a Secret Stage Loadout, while the Alt Stage Loadout is Cerulean Cave. Mewtwo needs a home stage, after all. Plus both locations are probably the last places trainers are going to go in the game.

What about Saffron City? Mt. Silver Peak could be a pretty good alt for it, that would be cool fighting upon a windy, snowy background with a possible Red cameo.

 

[GunBuster]

So some people want May's ORAS bandana, but I dunno if that's stretching past PMDT's rules of nothing outside what's already in the game is allowed because it was released past Brawl's release.

what is Fire Emblem Awakening Roy.