Please be vocal on Miiverse.

[Dax]

For those who own a WiiU, it is a well known fact (see the PAL 60hz VC games, etc) that Nintendo does gather feedback from Miiverse.
Now, and I'm talking about melee players in particular, if you want the damn gravity to be a bit less brawl-like (don't hate me brawlers, I'm not saying to tell 'em to make Melee 2.0 ) and no tripping, that's your chance. I don't think it is too late at all to make changes.
Pester Nintendo on Miiverse's Smash board about what you feel should change.

 

[Frostwraith]

For those who own a WiiU, it is a well known fact (see the PAL 60hz VC games, etc) that Nintendo does gather feedback from Miiverse.
Now, and I'm talking about melee players in particular, if you want the damn gravity to be a bit less brawl-like (don't hate me brawlers, I'm not saying to tell 'em to make Melee 2.0 ) and no tripping, that's your chance. I don't think it is too late at all to make changes.
Pester Nintendo on Miiverse's Smash board about what you feel should change.

I second this.

Miiverse is probably among the best features of the Wii U, because Nintendo listens to the fans. This Nintendo Direct showed that once more.

 

[DakotaBonez]

You're right, if we work together we can get Popeye into the next smash bros! Just kidding.

Ugh, cant go anywhere on miiverse without someone making a character support thread today, gonna avoid miiverse for awhile.
But if Sakurai did actually listen to miiverse this guy would've been revealed by now

Heres a link to the smash bros community on miiverse -> https://miiverse.nintendo.net/titles/14866558073037299863/14866558073037299866https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/pap/zlCfzRA0I48ECOaprP

 

[Chiroz]

I own a Wii U and I am very much in favor of this. I truly encourage everyone to give your opinions about the trailers in the Miiverse Smash comunity, asking for faster gravity and higher hitstun (amongst a few other things). Lets do this!

 

[Sedda]

I'm actually going to go ahead and disagree with this.

I still don't know why you guys hold your breath for more Smash games the way THIS community wants them. Didn't Melee sell like 10 million copies? We're are such a small part of the people who play Smash that it's ridiculous for us to demand changes to their game while everyone else is simply having fun with it. Why do you expect anything from Nintendo? You guys have a great community and two games that are still evolving after 10 years. I'd love for new Smash games to be somewhat similar to Melee, but I think it's a mistake to give them all this attention and hope for them to listen to us. They know we exist, and they don't care.

 

[RATED]

^ this man. I love competitive smash but that is the truth.

 

[Kirbunny431]

The only thing that is a real concern of mine is that we make a stink about getting rid of tripping. Did it pop up in any of the gameplay released, by any chance?

 

[Chiroz]

I'm actually going to go ahead and disagree with this.

I still don't know why you guys hold your breath for more Smash games the way THIS community wants them. Didn't Melee sell like 10 million copies? We're are such a small part of the people who play Smash that it's ridiculous for us to demand changes to their game while everyone else is simply having fun with it. Why do you expect anything from Nintendo? You guys have a great community and two games that are still evolving after 10 years. I'd love for new Smash games to be somewhat similar to Melee, but I think it's a mistake to give them all this attention and hope for them to listen to us. They know we exist, and they don't care.

So your basic post is...

Don't say anything because you won't get listened to and you won't make a change.

Then why wouldn't we say anything? We don't lose anything by trying, worse case sceneario the game doesn't change, at best we change at least something.

Anyways, anyone reading this thread go into Miiverse and look for the Account: Zykrex and Yeah! my post plz, lets get it to popular!

 

[Sedda]

So your basic post is...

Don't say anything because you won't get listened to and you won't make a change.

Then why wouldn't we say anything? We don't lose anything by trying, worse case sceneario the game doesn't change, at best we change at least something.

Anyways, anyone reading this thread go into Miiverse and look for the Account: Zykrex and Yeah! my post plz, lets get it to popular!

You misunderstood my post. The point is that us, as a very small portion of the entire player base that will play Smash 4, can't expect our demands to be met over the larger group, which is only looking for fun and MEGAMAN. I would say it's even unfair to those other gamers. Yes I think we should do NOTHING about it because you keep dreaming and dreaming but Nintendo doesn't care about us, and they don't have to. They will listen, but they won't change a thing because we're a very small fragment of their fans and seems to me like we're also an annoyance to them.

This community has built its own self-sustaining ship, and it will be fine. The best you can do for Smash 4 is accept it as it is, and judge by yourself whether you'll be playing it or not. Don't expect them to do anything for this community, because they won't.

 

[Chiroz]

You misunderstood my post. The point is that us, as a very small portion of the entire player base that will play Smash 4, can't expect our demands to be met over the larger group, which is only looking for fun and MEGAMAN. I would say it's even unfair to those other gamers. Yes I think we should do NOTHING about it because you keep dreaming and dreaming but Nintendo doesn't care about us, and they don't have to. They will listen, but they won't change a thing because we're a very small fragment of their fans and seems to me like we're also an annoyance to them.

This community has built its own self-sustaining ship, and it will be fine. The best you can do for Smash 4 is accept it as it is, and judge by yourself whether you'll be playing it or not. Don't expect them to do anything for this community, because they won't.

How did I misunderstand your comment? You literally rephrased exactly what I said.

"Yes I think we should do NOTHING about it because you keep dreaming and dreaming but Nintendo doesn't care about us, and they don't have to."

Why do people stop throwing trash? Other people won't stop and they won't really make a difference, we should just not do it at all, in the grand scheme of things other people don't really care and nothing really changes (No major oil company has shut down because they were moved by people stop throwing trash).

I am not expecting anything out of anyone, yet you shouldn't say we should just stay put if other people want to try to do something you shouldn't say no, there's no reason not to. You lose 5 minutes of your life hitting Yeah on a Miiverse post, it isn't like you are paying money or changing your whole life about it.

 

[Mic_128]

It's always better to try and fail, then to never have tried at all.

 

[Chiroz]

It's always better to try and fail, then to never have tried at all.

Go into Miiverse and hit Yeah, account: Zykrex, maybe we can get it to popular

 

[Mic_128]

For that to occur though, I'd have to have a Wii U

 

[BelitZ]

I don't think tripping in necessarily something specific to the competitive community, it pisses everyone off. Wavedashing and SHFF types of mechanics are never going to be the focus in development, but realizing tripping was a mistake in brawl shouldn't be hard to translate to the Wii U and 3DS versions.

 

[Chiroz]

The only thing that is a real concern of mine is that we make a stink about getting rid of tripping. Did it pop up in any of the gameplay released, by any chance?

Well, there's in game video of about 3 minutes of gameplay and there wasn't a single trip, it might actually be gone already.

Edit: Hadn't read that post.

To clarify I am not de-confirming anything, but there is a full 1:30 minute match between Sakurai and someone else plus about 30 seconds of footage from the Trailer and 1:00 from Megaman and Wii Fit girl reveal and there wasn't a single trip.

 

[RomanceDawn]

Well, there's in game video of about 3 minutes of gameplay and there wasn't a single trip, it might actually be gone already.

Edit: Hadn't read that post.

To clarify I am not de-confirming anything, but there is a full 1:30 minute match between Sakurai and someone else plus about 30 seconds of footage from the Trailer and 1:00 from Megaman and Wii Fit girl reveal and there wasn't a single trip.

You are right, I didn't even think about that.

Well I'll let it turn out the way its going to turn out. Aside from specific characters my demand will be costumes! I hope others follow suit. Draw them to get lots of attention!

 

[Renji64]

Worth a shot. I don't want another bad game.

 

[lordvaati]

I'm actually going to go ahead and disagree with this.

I still don't know why you guys hold your breath for more Smash games the way THIS community wants them. Didn't Melee sell like 10 million copies? We're are such a small part of the people who play Smash that it's ridiculous for us to demand changes to their game while everyone else is simply having fun with it. Why do you expect anything from Nintendo? You guys have a great community and two games that are still evolving after 10 years. I'd love for new Smash games to be somewhat similar to Melee, but I think it's a mistake to give them all this attention and hope for them to listen to us. They know we exist, and they don't care.

understandable,but both side of the fence agreed about one universal thing:

Tripping.Was.Not.Fun.For.Anyone.

even if we can not fix competitive issues, universal problems like tripping could be stopped via Miiverse. so yeah, It's best not to take the Live and let Live approach here.

 

[littlewolf]

Yeah, really hope tripping isn't in Smash 4. Even casuals hated it. Only way I would be ok with it coming back is through an Item or Assist Trophy you could turn off when you wanted to.

Oh and where is this 1:30 minute match of Sakurai's? I haven't seen it yet.

 

[lordvaati]

Yeah, really hope tripping isn't in Smash 4. Even casuals hated it. Only way I would be ok with it coming back is through an Item or Assist Trophy you could turn off when you wanted to.

Oh and where is this 1:30 minute match of Sakurai's? I haven't seen it yet.

 

[Chiroz]

Also why was the Melee sales quoted? I believe Melee sold about 7-8 million copies.

But didn't Brawl only sell like 12 million copies? On a vastly more popular console with a greatly reduced number of games competing with it (less games for that target audience in the Wii)

I mean on an actual comparison Melee sold more per console and also per other game sold than Brawl. Not saying anything I sincerely LOVE Brawl, but there are things (many things) which Melee did better and even casuals see that

I have many casual friends who don't know a single AT apart from crouch cancelling and who have played both games and even though they prefer Brawl they do give Melee much credit and every single one of them finds it just as fun and Brawl. Even then they still complain about a lot of stuff that they say Brawl made worse (the overall incredibly easy recoveries and tripping is what most casuals complain about and most of the recovery problems comes from the floatyness and the edge mechanics in Brawl) And these are semi-casual players. (They play smash a lot just not competitively).

The thing is casuals won't voice their opinions as much, we can at least try to voice ours while there is still time to change it .

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Worth a shot. I don't want another bad game.

Yeah, it would suck if I had to suffer through 7 more years of melee.

 

[psyniac_123]

Worth a shot. I don't want another bad game.

I just don't want to play the same game twice. Also Brawl wasn't a bad game.

understandable,but both side of the fence agreed about one universal thing:

Tripping.Was.Not.Fun.For.Anyone..

But.It.Didn't.Ruin.The.Entire.Game.

 

[Vkrm]

Are they more likely to listen now for some reason?

I just don't want to play the same game twice. Also Brawl wasn't a bad game.




But.It.Didn't.Ruin.The.Entire.Game.

Metaknight.Did.Most.Of.The.Ruining.

 

[Dax]

I'm actually going to go ahead and disagree with this.

I still don't know why you guys hold your breath for more Smash games the way THIS community wants them. Didn't Melee sell like 10 million copies? We're are such a small part of the people who play Smash that it's ridiculous for us to demand changes to their game while everyone else is simply having fun with it. Why do you expect anything from Nintendo? You guys have a great community and two games that are still evolving after 10 years. I'd love for new Smash games to be somewhat similar to Melee, but I think it's a mistake to give them all this attention and hope for them to listen to us. They know we exist, and they don't care.

You're wrong. We're a small part? No we aren't, at all. It's up to use to prove we aren't. Smash may sell copies but it's the people like us that keep making it selling, by still playing it for YEARS. Melee will be in EVO this year. That's quite some FREE MARKETING for Nintendo, you know.
Again, I don't want it to be similar to Melee, read my post again. I think the floating gravity is bad for the game. It's that simple.

You misunderstood my post. The point is that us, as a very small portion of the entire player base that will play Smash 4, can't expect our demands to be met over the larger group, which is only looking for fun and MEGAMAN. I would say it's even unfair to those other gamers. Yes I think we should do NOTHING about it because you keep dreaming and dreaming but Nintendo doesn't care about us, and they don't have to. They will listen, but they won't change a thing because we're a very small fragment of their fans and seems to me like we're also an annoyance to them.

This community has built its own self-sustaining ship, and it will be fine. The best you can do for Smash 4 is accept it as it is, and judge by yourself whether you'll be playing it or not. Don't expect them to do anything for this community, because they won't.

But that's the point. That "larger group" does not care about the game at all. They'll buy it even if they put in that you land after 5 seconds after jumping. Instead, we're doing them a favor. We're trying to make the game more fun, for everyone. For them, and for us. So it is not unfair at all. We're doing them a favor. The only wrong here that thinks that that thought that Melee was too hard to pick up and play is Sakurai. He did it in good faith, but I've played Melee with 6 years old kids. They had fun, a lot of. There is no need to make the characters fly, it doesn't add any "fun". I want to show him that many people don't need that.
They won't listen you say? Who gives a damn? They listened to other stuff, it's worth a try. Takes 5 minutes of my life.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

The nay-sayers who believe that Smashboards represents a small, and therefore insignificant, part of the Smash Bros. demographic do not understand the demographic of the board itself, and certainly do not understand representative sampling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_(statistics)

Smashboards almost certainly contains a larger percentage of players who are hobbyists and not casual gamers. I haven't been on Miiverse yet, but I am willing to bet that the majority of casual gamers will not make a statement one way or the other about Smash Bros. on Miiverse, and a larger part of the hobbyists will. Given that the board is probably a mildly skewed sample of the Smash Bros. demographic, and the lack of enthusiasm from non-hobbyist gamers, I dare say the board can be represented well on the Miiverse, and hardcore, competitive population even more so.

But some of you have already given up. You did all your griping after the last game was made, and now you can't be bothered to submit any opinion. What a waste.

 

[patrickthekid]

I just got an idea. We could use the Miiverse feature to tell Nintendo about balance requests. Why not use it to tell them to fix Zelda's aerials, give Captain Falcon more damage or suggest uses for Mario's FLUUD if not to find a replacement. This could be huge, a place where we can finally voice balancing suggestions for characters.

 

[Renji64]

Yeah, it would suck if I had to suffer through 7 more years of melee.

I was talking about brawl the most bland campy smash bros of all time.

 

[I.S FoxMkloud]

Well, guys, we are kind of like special interest groups you know and and you know those groups can basically lobby their causes to affect the majority. So to say that we are minority therefore we shouldn't do anything is kind of silly. I mean, come on, if we are organized well enough, we can influence things imo. We won't get to make development decisions, yes, but at least our opinions on things will be heard or at least they will think about it once. They will know that we are there even if they want to say "Hey, you are minority so we won't listen to you". So yes, Miiverse organization thing I can support if I had my Wii U given our position. As long as our propositions make the game fun, I believe that we can catch enough majority support. Basically what I am saying is... we should apply Median Voter tactic lol.

 

[Orngeblu]

Hmm. I think I will try as well.

 

[Sedda]

I quoted the sales because I'm absolutely sure that 7-8 million people don't play the game competitively. Only a few thousand do, and we are only representative of this community, not of everyone who wants to have fun with the game and think nothing more of it.

Yes, young kids can have fun in Melee, but they can have fun in Brawl as well, because they don't know the hard facts and differences between them other than "brawl feels kinda floaty." I'm not a "naysayer." As I said, I wish they made a fast paced Smash game that was fun and viable for us and NOBODY outside would notice, but you guys think that because we put Melee on EVO we deserve something. It would be great if they helped us out by creating a game that we would love, but the reality is that we didn't pay 96k to put Melee at EVO. Melee is just a tool, a game that we use to have fun. What we put on EVO was this community, and we should be proud of that.
My point is, don't look at Nintendo and expect them to do anything for you. You can try all you want, but the point of this is that you're putting your focus and hopes on their GAMES, and the important thing about this community is the actual community, not the direction that they go with their games. They can make the game that they want to make and that's what they will do, UNLESS the MAJORITY (I'm talking MILLIONS) complain about the game. We can buy the game, accept it as it is, and build upon it instead of expecting it to be the way we want it just for the sake of it being competitive.

EDIT: It should be noted that I'm all for the removal of random elements (obviously talking about tripping) which is something a majority of the player base complained about.

 

[V-K]

If any of you guys have a WiiU please make requests about competitive play and combos. I really want to be hyped for this game but I don't know if the game is gonna be good or not.

Also talk about Evo.

 

[Kef]

To all Wii U users, make it happen guys.

 

[Chiroz]

I quoted the sales because I'm absolutely sure that 7-8 million people don't play the game competitively. Only a few thousand do, and we are only representative of this community, not of everyone who wants to have fun with the game and think nothing more of it.

Yes, young kids can have fun in Melee, but they can have fun in Brawl as well, because they don't know the hard facts and differences between them other than "brawl feels kinda floaty." I'm not a "naysayer." As I said, I wish they made a fast paced Smash game that was fun and viable for us and NOBODY outside would notice, but you guys think that because we put Melee on EVO we deserve something. It would be great if they helped us out by creating a game that we would love, but the reality is that we didn't pay 96k to put Melee at EVO. Melee is just a tool, a game that we use to have fun. What we put on EVO was this community, and we should be proud of that.
My point is, don't look at Nintendo and expect them to do anything for you. You can try all you want, but the point of this is that you're putting your focus and hopes on their GAMES, and the important thing about this community is the actual community, not the direction that they go with their games. They can make the game that they want to make and that's what they will do, UNLESS the MAJORITY (I'm talking MILLIONS) complain about the game. We can buy the game, accept it as it is, and build upon it instead of expecting it to be the way we want it just for the sake .

I understand your point, but here is where its wrong, or not wrong, thats not the correct word, the correct word is "weak".

You compare the Competitive number to the total number of players of Smash this would seem to imply that it is thousands vs millions when in fact it is not. As you said just paragraphs after most of the casuals won't even notice much of the differences from Melee to Brawl except that the game seems to have more aerial combat and people tend to never die, they don't look into the game as much and don't realize what happens which brings us to this other point you made yourself. The vast majority of this millions won't voice their opinion about anything.

You use this last statement to say that because of this Sakurai and his team will remain unmoved by our requests but actually this only makes our request stronger. These millions won't oppose the idea either, giving the notion that these thousands care a lot about something the millions have no opinion about whatsoever because of this, these thousands look much stronger as they have no opposing force to be to, we will only look bigger in numbers.

(An example of this would be making a poll about which controller should be used, maybe the casuals enjoy the wiimote better, but all in all they don't care, so the competitive scene all vote for Pro controller and the poll ends up 365-115 the Pro wins. The fact that casuals don't care to voice their opinions helps the competitive scene look bigger)

Anyways I understand your point and nothing is expected out of Nintendo, it isn't an expectation, it is a request.

 

[Sedda]

Yeah, you're right that the casuals won't complain about anything other than things like tripping that affect everyone. I'm not trying to be a downer, but I'm just kinda worried about the whole miiverse thing because of the differences between casuals and competitive players and the different things that casuals might ask for because of their ignorance.

For example, I was listening to The Game Station talk about what they want from the next Smash, and one of them said that they don't like clones because he's never seen the need to ever use Puff in any of the games. For us, that makes sense in Brawl, but Puff is a great character in the first two games (even in 64, where the tier list reflects other things other than just having a low tier placement).

It's gotten me thinking that, yes, if you guys are vocal they will listen and MIGHT change stuff, but remember the possibilities that that power represents in the hands of casuals.

I never really complained about Brawl. I just didn't play it that much, but I have changed my way of thinking and I will be playing the next Smash for fun first, competition later. Maybe something good can come from that.

 

[patrickthekid]

Maybe we can have a professional player like Mango or M2k explain some gaming mechanic changes as well as character balance ideas. It would at least give some weight into the arguments.

 

[umegames]

For those who own a WiiU, it is a well known fact (see the PAL 60hz VC games, etc) that Nintendo does gather feedback from Miiverse.
Now, and I'm talking about melee players in particular, if you want the damn gravity to be a bit less brawl-like (don't hate me brawlers, I'm not saying to tell 'em to make Melee 2.0 ) and no tripping, that's your chance. I don't think it is too late at all to make changes.
Pester Nintendo on Miiverse's Smash board about what you feel should change.

thats both a good and bad thing, because just more "brawl vs melee" arguments are going to be made, but yet, it is important that nintendo hears us, which i believe is why the smash community is up in the first place.

 

[Gardex]

Maybe we can have a professional player like Mango or M2k explain some gaming mechanic changes as well as character balance ideas. It would at least give some weight into the arguments.

Isn't M2K already going to be playtesting it or something along those lines?

 

[patrickthekid]

Isn't M2K already going to be playtesting it or something along those lines?

I'm not too sure on that. Still, any type of voice will go a long way in getting the ideal Smash Bros game.

I've gotten a small list on what needs to be addressed the most:

1. It's safe to say that everyone wants the game to be faster in general. Faster ground speed, faster fall speed and the like. It doesn't have to be Melee 2.0, but a little more speed wouldn't hurt.
2. Planking has to go. One of the main reasons Metaknight was OP was his ability to camp to no end. Getting rid of invincibility frames when letting go of the ledge will go a long way in preventing that type of stuff. We already have a way to safely get back onto a ledge.
3. Chain grabs have notoriously prevented characters such as Donkey Kong and Bowser from going anywhere in the tier lists. They have to go in order to balance those types of characters. The Ice Climbers can be exceptions because of how much they depend on it, but even they shouldn't be able to do 0-death combos.
4. Stale-move-negation should no longer affect knockback. It's arguably have it's benefits, but it was downright detrimental for a lot of the roster (Sheik, Peach, Pit, Sonic etc). The developers could allow everyone to have the same number of KO moves instead, but then there would be no variety. Having one or two reliable KO moves should be more of a challenge for the player than a hindrance that prevents a character from being viable.
5. Less landing lag in general. The main reason so many people want L-cancelling back is because how punishable landing on the ground is. Doing so will help make aerials a lot more viable in the game. It doesn't even have to be L-cancelling if you want it to.
6. Defensive options in general need a nerf. That's one of the biggest complains from Brawl was how effective powershielding and camping is thanks to Brawl physics. I'm not sure how this should be nerfed, but it should be addressed.

Unfortunately, I don't really have a Wii U, but I hope it's a start for most people. I could also do character specific changes later on.

 

[The_NZA]

I quoted the sales because I'm absolutely sure that 7-8 million people don't play the game competitively. Only a few thousand do, and we are only representative of this community, not of everyone who wants to have fun with the game and think nothing more of it.

Yes, young kids can have fun in Melee, but they can have fun in Brawl as well, because they don't know the hard facts and differences between them other than "brawl feels kinda floaty." I'm not a "naysayer." As I said, I wish they made a fast paced Smash game that was fun and viable for us and NOBODY outside would notice, but you guys think that because we put Melee on EVO we deserve something. It would be great if they helped us out by creating a game that we would love, but the reality is that we didn't pay 96k to put Melee at EVO. Melee is just a tool, a game that we use to have fun. What we put on EVO was this community, and we should be proud of that.
My point is, don't look at Nintendo and expect them to do anything for you. You can try all you want, but the point of this is that you're putting your focus and hopes on their GAMES, and the important thing about this community is the actual community, not the direction that they go with their games. They can make the game that they want to make and that's what they will do, UNLESS the MAJORITY (I'm talking MILLIONS) complain about the game. We can buy the game, accept it as it is, and build upon it instead of expecting it to be the way we want it just for the sake of it being competitive.

EDIT: It should be noted that I'm all for the removal of random elements (obviously talking about tripping) which is something a majority of the player base complained about.

Hey, just because a minority of players play it competitively doesn't mean the majority likes it better when that skill ceiling doesn't exist. Truth: You can only know where the population stands by expressing your opinion. Regardless of how you feel everyone else feels, just express yours wherever it matters.