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Playing "gay"

rawrimamonster

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
745
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dearborn heights MI
Something popped into my head this morning while I was practicing in the form of a question. What does the community as a whole some characters consider just "gay"? Honestly it never registered in my mind until my friends complaints of calling me tryhard. But I wonder what everyones input on this is? To me (in most cases where the "gay" wins) gettin called "gay" is practically a compliment, it means you admit you lost, you couldnt figure out how to beat what you think is "gay" and to get past your loss you gotta talk ****.

I know some people call jigglypuffs gay, but its just like...why? Campy styles are hard to deal with but just find a counter strategy and a way to beat em instead of just makin johns. Seriously man. In my time in Melee I've been called everything under the sun including "playing gay" but serious it just seems like an excuse to me. :glare:
 

R2_GP

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
317
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Tegucigalpa, Honduras
imo peach is not gay, she's a very hard char.. but here i go: jigglypuff IS, in fact, a gay character, and i'm not talking about the campy stuff, his bair just makes the match truly boring, uncomfortable, it takes away almost every good technical/logical aspect that makes this game playable, i'ts really hard for most of the people not to think he is "gay" or "lame" when you know you're a better player than a jiggz main and he just rest you 3 stocks in a row. There's many good jiggz out there, but just a few are really good melee players.

I hope you don't take any offense with this, is just an opinion.
P.S: Peach is amazing, just play Peach lol
 

rawrimamonster

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
745
Location
dearborn heights MI
imo peach is not gay, she's a very hard char.. but here i go: jigglypuff IS, in fact, a gay character, and i'm not talking about the campy stuff, his bair just makes the match truly boring, uncomfortable, it takes away almost every good technical/logical aspect that makes this game playable, i'ts really hard for most of the people not to think he is "gay" or "lame" when you know you're a better player than a jiggz main and he just rest you 3 stocks in a row. There's many good jiggz out there, but just a few are really good melee players.

I hope you don't take any offense with this, is just an opinion.
P.S: Peach is amazing, just play Peach lol
Lol I dont get offended, I've been in the smash community way too long for that to happen anymore. :bee: but good point I suppose. But in this case I think its more of the tactics used being too good or even broken if its passing skill boundaries like you're implying.
 

oukd

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
1,464
i think the community in general agrees that from the audience's perspective, if anything makes the match less exciting to watch, it's deemed lame. most players worth their salt don't care about playing against lame strats and just play without johns, its when they become the audience that the complaints come up.

on the other hand, scrubs love complaining about playing against anything they can't figure out lol
 

R2_GP

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
317
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Tegucigalpa, Honduras
is just that i felt really bad when people were leaving during those sets of GF at Apex 12, that's not good for the game men
 

MountainGoat

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
247
It's really frustrating when you're trying your *** off with fox tech or something like that and you die to someone spamming Peach's downsmash or Marth's fsmash. I don't think calling it gay is the right reaction though. Just gotta deal with it and keep going.
 

Kaizer

Smash Journeyman
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Aug 13, 2005
Messages
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Oslo, Norway
then again, you probably shouldn't get hit when peach is spamming downsmash, despite the tech skill effort.

r2_gp: yeah, that's exactly what's going on in a puff/ylink match... i'd suggest you try it against armada.
 

EthereaL

Smash Journeyman
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Lost in Thought
Yeh, i mean, it must be really hard to spam one or two moves for 8 minutes uff lol
Jigglypuff is a baiting and spacing character. She plays inherently slower paced than, say, Falcon vs Falco.

If you get outspaced by the same two moves for eight minutes straight, you have a problem.
 

AppleAppleAZ

Smash Journeyman
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Ayy Zeee
Jigglypuff is a baiting and spacing character. She plays inherently slower paced than, say, Falcon vs Falco.

If you get outspaced by the same two moves for eight minutes straight, you have a problem.
this, also maybe instead of complaining about it, spend time strategizing on how to counter the playstyle.
 

Beat!

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
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Uppsala, Sweden
It's really frustrating when you're trying your *** off with MARTH SPACING or something like that and you die to someone spamming FOX'S SHINE. I don't think calling it gay is the right reaction though. Just gotta deal with it and keep going.
Edits in caps. While your conclusion was good, I just wanted to point out that the complaints can go both ways. Everyone has to "try their *** off".
 

R2_GP

Smash Journeyman
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Jigglypuff is a baiting and spacing character. She plays inherently slower paced than, say, Falcon vs Falco.

If you get outspaced by the same two moves for eight minutes straight, you have a problem.
saying "that's how he plays" sounds like a John to me, also, you have to keep in mind that this two moves are not just something you just ignore and counter right away, this "two" moves are the main issue with jiggs "metagame" if you approach you'll probably get hit in the face, if you get grabbed you're dead.... it's not the fact that she has this kind of moves, the fact is people seriously over use them.
 

Citrus

Smash Apprentice
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Jul 16, 2012
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Also apex 2012 GF being campy or "gay" was a two part effort of both players/characters. Not just puff
 

R2_GP

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Also apex 2012 GF being campy or "gay" was a two part effort of both players/characters. Not just puff
i'm totally agree with this, just because ylink vs jiggs is such a bad MU, but that's what it takes right? Armada changing his play style and going megacampy young link
 

weon - X

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Mar 9, 2009
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herpderpland
never cared much about bair camp. Jigg's punishes are just ridiculous. u miss a tech ... jab ur dead. like come on... some of us have to do more than 1 input for our kills... to some degree thats why i dont like peach. except its not as extreme, more like getting combo'd for 50 %.

their rewards are too much.
 

Kaizer

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i'd think there's more than one input to get a jab rest. not including spacing/pressure/etc. i guess it must be frustrating to play against a character with such a great punish game, but the thought that the more inputs you use, the better you should do is quite flawed.
 

Ryobeat

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Weon-x, while Peach does have that punish, there are ALOT WORSE for her. Her neutral game vs like most characters (Fox, Falco, Marth, Jiggz, Sheik) are sooooooo hard. One drill from fox, can lead to waveshine acorss the stage to upsmash or downsmash. Then that leaves them in a ****ty position. And most characters have auto combos on her. Upthrow up air and waveshines for Fox, Upair 3X and grab->Knee for Falcon, Lots of Fair for Marth, and then Sheik can just grab and do anything. It’s hard on a lot of matchups, but then there is downsmash<33
 

weon - X

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I obviously meant more than just pressing buttons. Sometimes I have to read my opponent. Guess whether they're gonna roll/wavedash oos/throw out a move according to what they've done before. PLUS I have to worry about not getting CC grabbed/downsmashed so I have to chose my moves right. The best way to end it would be with a kill without having to edgeguard but yeah that's not 100% assured. (this is all on chars that arent puff and me being fox/falco) (falco is a cun7 too)

Anyways I wouldnt ***** if I could do 100% assured u throw uair on puff but getting the second hit does require some finesse.

I don't think puff is easy to play but at times her punishes are just stupidly good. kaizer if u wanna explain more about your thoughts i'll gladly read em.
 

R2_GP

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Weon-x, while Peach does have that punish, there are ALOT WORSE for her. Her neutral game vs like most characters (Fox, Falco, Marth, Jiggz, Sheik) are sooooooo hard. One drill from fox, can lead to waveshine acorss the stage to upsmash or downsmash. Then that leaves them in a ****ty position. And most characters have auto combos on her. Upthrow up air and waveshines for Fox, Upair 3X and grab->Knee for Falcon, Lots of Fair for Marth, and then Sheik can just grab and do anything. It’s hard on a lot of matchups, but then there is downsmash<33
lol that's so true peach is a very vulnerable character vs fox, falcon and marth, but then again, dsmash an nair Oos too good :D
 

weon - X

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ryobeat i agree fox is a hard match up for peach.
just saying that in certain situations fox gets punished really hard by faceroll.
 

kd-

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Falcon/Falco hit stun auto combos
Peach trades, ability to wall you out just by wearing that dress and/or nair + nair applications (nair out of shield, during combos, edgeguarding)
Fox/Falco laser camping
Samus
 

HoChiMinhTrail

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There is really no easy character to use in this game at the top level. Some are more technical, while others are more mental. Defensive strategies are usually deemed "gay", but I honestly don't mind watching great defensive play. Jiggs gets a bad rep. because she isn't a very flashy character, however, how many jiggs players do you see competing at the top level? 1?
 

phish-it

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Theres alot of hate toward Puff.


Jigglypuff up throw rest kills Fox at 50 and it's considered gay.
Fox up throw up air kills Jigglypuff at 50 and it's considered legit.
 

kd-

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Offering an explaination as to why that is:

The Puff player can DI the throw sideways and is able to SDI the first hit of uair. The Fox, if good enough, can force only the second hit of uair to hit, or can 'guess' the Puff's SDI, or make it so it won't matter. Both players can do something to make it happen in his/her favor, and it takes some positioning to make things guaranteed.

As opposed to:

The Fox can DI the up throw, or else it's basically a guaranteed kill from 15-20% before the up throw.

Not saying that one is for sure 'gayer' than the other, just offering an explanation. As someone on the boards has a VaNz quote in their sig: "As Sheik if you downthrow fair they boo you out of the tournament. As Falcon if you downthrow fair they wet their underwear and laud you as a hero"
 

Twinkles

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Up-throw rest kills is like guaranteed death at 10%
I still think Fox wins the MU, but that is kinda dumb lol
 

ShroudedOne

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Mar 14, 2011
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You can just option select your DI whenever there's a feasible chance of getting grabbed out of an approach/during shield pressure (even though you should be grabbing her anyways)/most times she hits or grabs you anyways, since you don't want to DI bairs up. :\

If you go into most situations vs her keeping in mind that you might get grabbed off of something silly, you should be more prepared to DI. Keeping stage position in mind is also important, cause you don't want to get uthrown onto a platform and have to deal with silly tech windows.

Whereas Fox can almost always kill Puff off of uthrow if he's good at this game by spacing for second hits. I don't see how it's not lamer for Puff than for Fox, honestly.

EDIT: Everything DK and above in this game has some sort of lameness to it. The sooner you realize that and embrace it, the better.
 

Mahone

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Something popped into my head this morning while I was practicing in the form of a question. What does the community as a whole some characters consider just "gay"? Honestly it never registered in my mind until my friends complaints of calling me tryhard. But I wonder what everyones input on this is? To me (in most cases where the "gay" wins) gettin called "gay" is practically a compliment, it means you admit you lost, you couldnt figure out how to beat what you think is "gay" and to get past your loss you gotta talk ****.

I know some people call jigglypuffs gay, but its just like...why? Campy styles are hard to deal with but just find a counter strategy and a way to beat em instead of just makin johns. Seriously man. In my time in Melee I've been called everything under the sun including "playing gay" but serious it just seems like an excuse to me. :glare:
What does the community as a whole some characters consider just "gay"?

hahah, wtf is this sentence

why? because its easier than getting better and few people can admit their own mistakes, not just in smash but in LIFE...

i think we've all learned something here today.

imo peach is not gay, she's a very hard char.. but here i go: jigglypuff IS, in fact, a gay character, and i'm not talking about the campy stuff, his bair just makes the match truly boring, uncomfortable, it takes away almost every good technical/logical aspect that makes this game playable, i'ts really hard for most of the people not to think he is "gay" or "lame" when you know you're a better player than a jiggz main and he just rest you 3 stocks in a row. There's many good jiggz out there, but just a few are really good melee players.

I hope you don't take any offense with this, is just an opinion.
P.S: Peach is amazing, just play Peach lol
When i was really new to this game i thought marth was super broken since i played ics and could never get close to him because of his range... but as i got better i started realizing that he has a lot of weaknesses that make up for his range.

You sound exactly like that but with jiggs instead of marth.

At low level play, jiggs is pretty overpowered... if both players cannot hit lcancels consistently (and lets say the other player is playing fox), then the jiggs will completely destroy the fox without having to do much except shield-grab-upthrow-rest...

however, jiggs at high level is much different, and requires an equal or possibly greater amount of "technical/logical aspect that makes this game playable" than the other top tiers, so there is no use in calling jiggs gay or being upset that you are better and losing...

just keep getting better and things will change :)

There's many good jiggz out there, but just a few are really good melee players.

This line makes me just think you are regurgitating what every "cool" top player says when they talk **** about jiggs.

Like i said before, you don't seem to know enough about this game to make such bold statements. What makes a "really good melee player"? Are you positive you know the answer to that?

never cared much about bair camp. Jigg's punishes are just ridiculous. u miss a tech ... jab ur dead. like come on... some of us have to do more than 1 input for our kills... to some degree thats why i dont like peach. except its not as extreme, more like getting combo'd for 50 %.

their rewards are too much.
You're getting hit with a move that will force you to tech... then you miss the tech... then you get jab reset...

BUT, ofc if you are up a stock, she cant rest you and if shes above ~50%, its trading stocks

doesn't sound as bad when you put it that way imo
 

weon - X

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 9, 2009
Messages
528
Location
herpderpland
Theres alot of hate toward Puff.


Jigglypuff up throw rest kills Fox at 50 and it's considered gay.
Fox up throw up air kills Jigglypuff at 50 and it's considered legit.
where are these %'s coming from?

that would prolly work on yoshis.
and rest kills way earlier that that
 
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