Social PK Love - Lucas Social Thread: “Inside the mailbox was absolutely nothing”

[KaptenFullkorn]

Just had a thought, as you can magnetcancel with a jump - shouldnt it be possible to JC Upsmash out of a magnetcancel?
I tried it out, and sure thing it works. Havent tried it out in a game yet, the only real scenario i can think of where it might work would be vs a Mario who approaches with FH Fireball dair... Is it possible to JC fsmash? Or any quicker option from a Jump cancel? Just food for thought I guess, might be nothing at all.

 

[Login_Sinker]

Just had a thought, as you can magnetcancel with a jump - shouldnt it be possible to JC Upsmash out of a magnetcancel?
I tried it out, and sure thing it works. Havent tried it out in a game yet, the only real scenario i can think of where it might work would be vs a Mario who approaches with FH Fireball dair... Is it possible to JC fsmash? Or any quicker option from a Jump cancel? Just food for thought I guess, might be nothing at all.

Even though it's extremely situational, that's a pretty neat find. And if I recall correctly, you can't JC a Fsmash. Still pretty neat though, especially if they try to hit you during the invulnerability frames of Usmash.

 

[Luco]

@ Mekos and @#HBC | J I've missed you both so much ;_;

My smash 4 Lucas is a lot weaker than my smash 4 Ness, but I'm not giving up on him at all and slowly I'm reducing the gap between them. Only tried him in tournament once early on, and I won, but that was also pre-patch. I think he's set to get better as time goes on. So hyped that we might just get our rep back. :D

 

[NekoJubei]

This doesn't have to do with 1v1s with Lucas but in doubles, Lucas can heal Ness in the middle of a combo like
Ness Down Throw-Lucas Footstool-Ness Jab lock-Lucas Charged PK Freeze-Ness Magnet Cancel(heals 30%) to SH Nair(So that the Ice Cube lands in the floor)-Ness PK Fire into Lucas Grab.
Pretty cool :o

 

[SkarmNightmare (Brett)]

Hello.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I'm about to pick up a prepaid card so I can download Lucas. Any changes between his play style in Brawl and Smash 4 I should be aware of?

 

[Mekos]

@ Mekos and @#HBC | J I've missed you both so much ;_;

My smash 4 Lucas is a lot weaker than my smash 4 Ness, but I'm not giving up on him at all and slowly I'm reducing the gap between them. Only tried him in tournament once early on, and I won, but that was also pre-patch. I think he's set to get better as time goes on. So hyped that we might just get our rep back. :D

Haha thanks buddy. I've missed you guys too.

I think that is the same for all of us. Right now, Ness is just so much stronger and better than Lucas :/.

It's like do we go the easy route and pick Ness or take our losses and get stronger with Lucas.

Hopefully the patches will help us out.

 

[Mekos]

Also, anybody good at making YouTube banners? I'm trying to get a cool one made for my Lucas channel.

 

[A Polar Bear]

Also, anybody good at making YouTube banners? I'm trying to get a cool one made for my Lucas channel.

PM somebody called AuraLink on Youtube. The guy has experience with that stuff and does excellent.

 

[Cryz]

So about that zair edge cancel, could it be possible to: wavebounced PK fire and then land on the plateform and zair cancel with the momentum of the PK? that would be a quick way to go between the plateforms and maybe punish and opponent?

 

[BasedGamerAce]

So about that zair edge cancel, could it be possible to: wavebounced PK fire and then land on the plateform and zair cancel with the momentum of the PK? that would be a quick way to go between the plateforms and maybe punish and opponent?

Most likely, but I'll test that out now.

 

[Luco]

Haha thanks buddy. I've missed you guys too.

I think that is the same for all of us. Right now, Ness is just so much stronger and better than Lucas :/.

It's like do we go the easy route and pick Ness or take our losses and get stronger with Lucas.

Hopefully the patches will help us out.

Hmm, my view on it is slightly different. Ness isn't truly easy-mode, at high level play most of his stuff is quite unsafe in neutral and it takes a lot of concentration to excel in the areas you need to - the thing is, I've had so much more experience with Ness at this point, and his playstyle has clicked with me once again like it did in Brawl whilst Lucas has gotten a lot harder to work with. I know I can take tournaments with Ness. With Lucas, it's shaky at best (ohhh the irony :'/ ).

Of course I'm always going to keep going and make it work, Lucas is just that special to me and always be, but yeah Ness is just very much in that spotlight right now and it's gonna take some time before I can get Lucas back to being the co-main he has a right to be.

 

[Login_Sinker]

Haha thanks buddy. I've missed you guys too.

I think that is the same for all of us. Right now, Ness is just so much stronger and better than Lucas :/.

It's like do we go the easy route and pick Ness or take our losses and get stronger with Lucas.

Hopefully the patches will help us out.

I actually don't think Ness is that much stronger than Lucas. The gap in viability is probably smaller than people think, but Lucas is much harder to use and hasn't been properly explored yet.

 

[BasedGamerAce]

So about that zair edge cancel, could it be possible to: wavebounced PK fire and then land on the plateform and zair cancel with the momentum of the PK? that would be a quick way to go between the plateforms and maybe punish and opponent?

After some testing, I don't think it works. I can't wave bounce in full speed, so I did it at 1/2 speed (maybe that effected it, Idk) and whenever I tried to zair cancel, I'd get trapped on the platform even after adjusting myself multiple times. Then, I just tried pk fire normally and I still didn't get it to work. I'll try this again tomorrow, but for now I don't think it works sadly.

 

[Mekos]

Well I don't travel for tourneys like I used to and am no longer a smash "pro" but I'm still friends with smash pros and play them everyday on wifi. My ness can goes even or wins against many of them while my Lucas loses or has to work so much harder to get the same win.

Lucas doesn't have easy setups into kills like ness does. He doesn't have easy high damage combos like ness does. He doesn't have strong priority in the majority of his attacks like ness does. I could go on and on haha.

I have love for lucas. Please know that. I'm the number 1 lucas player in the world for brawl and never gave up on him but I have to keep it real. In smash 4 they sadly nerfed him...hard. Don't you guys remember how quick our attacks were in brawl. Most of our moves had no landing lag! We could dance around shields all day. Our poor nair now has like a frame of landing lag. He does some handstand thing so now if you attack a shield with it you will be punished every time against a good player. And hard punished. A grab or smash attack. Our uair has like no hitbox *crying*

For lucas to be viable in this game he will need some buffs imo. Right now we gotta just do our best to push the character and hope Nintendo helps us out.

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

Well I don't travel for tourneys like I used to and am no longer a smash "pro" but I'm still friends with smash pros and play them everyday on wifi. My ness can goes even or wins against many of them while my Lucas loses or has to work so much harder to get the same win.

Lucas doesn't have easy setups into kills like ness does. He doesn't have easy high damage combos like ness does. He doesn't have strong priority in the majority of his attacks like ness does. I could go on and on haha.

I have love for lucas. Please know that. I'm the number 1 lucas player in the world for brawl and never gave up on him but I have to keep it real. In smash 4 they sadly nerfed him...hard. Don't you guys remember how quick our attacks were in brawl. Most of our moves had no landing lag! We could dance around shields all day. Our poor nair now has like a frame of landing lag. He does some handstand thing so now if you attack a shield with it you will be punished every time against a good player. And hard punished. A grab or smash attack. Our uair has like no hitbox *crying*

For lucas to be viable in this game he will need some buffs imo. Right now we gotta just do our best to push the character and hope Nintendo helps us out.

Nair doing 5% when stale doesn't help, as well as uair not having a good hitbox.


Also took away our movement options yet Ryu got some like a dash in the air.


Dair connect very poorly, and jab locking isn't even a thing really for Lucas now either.


And... dtilt doesn't even trip.

 

[Mekos]

^ Yea, I didn't want to sound too negative haha.

 

[Snackss]

Well, Ryu's mobility is pretty garbage otherwise, and the dash out of Focus Attack has considerable endlag. It takes a lot of work, reads, and some luck to make use of it.

Those aren't Lucas-specific nerfs, that's general changes between Brawl and this game. Nobody has lagless aerials except for Sheik and sometimes Rosalina. I think what Lucas needs is some kind of buff to up smash, for one. Huge startup and recovery for a move that isn't even as strong or versatile as Ike's up smash? Why? And then make up air faster or give it a better hitbox. I know it's probably because they don't want down throw to up air to be too easy, but the hitbox is just so small. Dash attack sweetspot should be safe on shield and maybe dash attack should be safer in general. Down tilt isn't going to trip, it's supposed to link into jab.
But it's not Brawl. You can't play it like Brawl, and basically everybody but Sheik, Fox, and Diddy (originally) got nerfed due to the changes in frame data and play style between games. And some got deliberately screwed over, like Falco. I wouldn't put Lucas in the latter category. Lucas in this game is more about the sum of his parts than any specific strength. I know Ness has better aerials and better KO options and better frame data by a mile and better PK Thunder, but Lucas can be incredibly annoying to deal with. PK Fire can punish landings and approaches, Rope Snake is incredibly annoying, down smash can be really good, his forward smash is fast and also a reflector, down air is a solid meteor smash that's easy to land,

 

[SapphSabre777]

Hi, Lucas mains! Just wanted to drop this in: the Kirby boards are now discussing the boy from Nowhere, Lucas! If you could, please lend any sort of advice on the MU and input it HERE.

Thank you very much guys, and may your mothers guide you in spirit!

 

[Luco]

Well, Ryu's mobility is pretty garbage otherwise, and the dash out of Focus Attack has considerable endlag. It takes a lot of work, reads, and some luck to make use of it.

Those aren't Lucas-specific nerfs, that's general changes between Brawl and this game. Nobody has lagless aerials except for Sheik and sometimes Rosalina. I think what Lucas needs is some kind of buff to up smash, for one. Huge startup and recovery for a move that isn't even as strong or versatile as Ike's up smash? Why? And then make up air faster or give it a better hitbox. I know it's probably because they don't want down throw to up air to be too easy, but the hitbox is just so small. Dash attack sweetspot should be safe on shield and maybe dash attack should be safer in general. Down tilt isn't going to trip, it's supposed to link into jab.
But it's not Brawl. You can't play it like Brawl, and basically everybody but Sheik, Fox, and Diddy (originally) got nerfed due to the changes in frame data and play style between games. And some got deliberately screwed over, like Falco. I wouldn't put Lucas in the latter category. Lucas in this game is more about the sum of his parts than any specific strength. I know Ness has better aerials and better KO options and better frame data by a mile and better PK Thunder, but Lucas can be incredibly annoying to deal with. PK Fire can punish landings and approaches, Rope Snake is incredibly annoying, down smash can be really good, his forward smash is fast and also a reflector, down air is a solid meteor smash that's easy to land,

Actually, Lucas' Usmash is the strongest Usmash in the game period. Ike's horizontal range is larger but Lucas also has incredible vertical range, at least 3/4 of Palutena's Usmash (that little spark at the top does wonders). It's not great, but I don't feel any particular need for it to be buffed. Lucas needs Fair to AC again, possibly Nair, I also think range/size of hitbox buffs to Dair and Uair should be looked at, as well as speed of rope snake/how grab works in general. Lucas is so centralised around zoning and the grab, but grabbing for him is so risky that it basically invalidates what he wants to do half the time. I would also look at buffing PKT1, the end-lag on that is 3 years long, it's just silly lawl.

 

[KaptenFullkorn]

Lucas is so centralised around zoning and the grab, but grabbing for him is so risky that it basically invalidates what he wants to do half the time.

>this sums up my opinion of Lucas shortcomings.

 

[Snackss]

It doesn't cancel when it hits somebody, so I don't see why it's so long to recover.

I don't feel like Lucas is as centralized around grab as Zero Suit is, at least.

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

Oh and if Dsmash hits a shield, the next 2 hits wont do anything.

Yet Shulks dsmash can hit you over and over (shield wise) and so can like everybody elses that has a multi-hit.

He has aspects that apply to him that other characters don't have to deal with. Very annoying.

 

[Mekos]

Well, Ryu's mobility is pretty garbage otherwise, and the dash out of Focus Attack has considerable endlag. It takes a lot of work, reads, and some luck to make use of it.

Those aren't Lucas-specific nerfs, that's general changes between Brawl and this game. Nobody has lagless aerials except for Sheik and sometimes Rosalina. I think what Lucas needs is some kind of buff to up smash, for one. Huge startup and recovery for a move that isn't even as strong or versatile as Ike's up smash? Why? And then make up air faster or give it a better hitbox. I know it's probably because they don't want down throw to up air to be too easy, but the hitbox is just so small. Dash attack sweetspot should be safe on shield and maybe dash attack should be safer in general. Down tilt isn't going to trip, it's supposed to link into jab.
But it's not Brawl. You can't play it like Brawl, and basically everybody but Sheik, Fox, and Diddy (originally) got nerfed due to the changes in frame data and play style between games. And some got deliberately screwed over, like Falco. I wouldn't put Lucas in the latter category. Lucas in this game is more about the sum of his parts than any specific strength. I know Ness has better aerials and better KO options and better frame data by a mile and better PK Thunder, but Lucas can be incredibly annoying to deal with. PK Fire can punish landings and approaches, Rope Snake is incredibly annoying, down smash can be really good, his forward smash is fast and also a reflector, down air is a solid meteor smash that's easy to land,

Incorrect. Almost everyone got buffed in this game. Are you really saying mario, luigi, peach, bowser, yoshi, captain falcon, etc got nerfed compared to brawl. Lucas is one of the few characters that is worse in this game.

Also, plenty of the cast has lagless aerials. Mario up air, back air, and down air all don't have landing lag. Sorry bro but you are wrong. And the main point is that we are talking about Lucas. Many of his moves before didn't have landing lag and now they do.

Also, the general changes from brawl to smash 4 did hurt him as well. HIs moves were never too good because they had low priority. But you could abuse his speed and quickness to trap opponents in shield or go in once their shield is low from pk fire pressure. Now that shield pressure is weaker in this game, we can no longer do that. For example, lucas gets punished by doing a nair on shield which is very disappointing.

It's not about me trying to play him like in brawl. It's the simple fact that he is not strong in this game and we are pointing out why.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

So I just purchased the Lucas DLC and cleared his classic mode on the Wii U version. I've noticed him to be a bit slower than he was in Brawl, but I could be wrong.

 

[Mekos]

Yea, he is not as quick. He only runs faster but like everyone runs faster.

 

[Snackss]

Incorrect. Almost everyone got buffed in this game. Are you really saying mario, luigi, peach, bowser, yoshi, captain falcon, etc got nerfed compared to brawl. Lucas is one of the few characters that is worse in this game.

Also, plenty of the cast has lagless aerials. Mario up air, back air, and down air all don't have landing lag. Sorry bro but you are wrong. And the main point is that we are talking about Lucas. Many of his moves before didn't have landing lag and now they do.

Also, the general changes from brawl to smash 4 did hurt him as well. HIs moves were never too good because they had low priority. But you could abuse his speed and quickness to trap opponents in shield or go in once their shield is low from pk fire pressure. Now that shield pressure is weaker in this game, we can no longer do that. For example, lucas gets punished by doing a nair on shield which is very disappointing.

It's not about me trying to play him like in brawl. It's the simple fact that he is not strong in this game and we are pointing out why.

In terms of general frame data, I had figured many characters were "nerfed" simply because of the differences between this game and Brawl. Just look at how fast forward smashes were in Brawl. Those characters weren't simply "buffed," they were completely reworked from their mediocre Brawl versions, especially Yoshi and Bowser. Lucas wasn't reworked. They took Lucas, changed his frame data and properties to be more in line with this game, gave his tether a hitbox, and put him in. He wasn't deliberately "nerfed" so much as the development team didn't really understand or weren't focused on what would make him good. With Roy, they were remaking him from the ground up, and Ryu was an entirely new character. With Lucas, they were just porting him to the game. Essentially the same deal as Mewtwo. That both Lucas and Mewtwo launched with weird quirks like moves not connecting properly, while Ryu and Roy didn't, to me highlights the difference between characters who were "reworked" and characters who they just wanted to have in this game.

Having safe aerials is an exception in this game, and it's apparent from that the characters with the safest and best aerials are all high/ top tier. The "general changes" didn't "hurt him as well," those general changes ARE the nerfs. Lucas didn't have safe aerials explicitly because there's a bulletpoint under Lucas that says "no landing lag," he had them because that was just the way Brawl worked. In this game, only special snowflakes like Pikachu and Sheik and Mario get multiple aerials without landing lag. The "nerfs" to Lucas I feel are more the result of general lack of knowledge as to how characters play, the same problem that hurt Marth severely and sent Falco straight to low tier than any actual attempt to nerf Lucas. The nerfs are because this game isn't Brawl. Lucas wasn't even good in Brawl. But he seems like it compared to this game because, well, Brawl is a different game with different dynamics and physics. You put a modest character like Lucas into this game, which is generally more punishing, then they're going to feel nerfed. Again, why didn't he get reworked like Ness or Fox did? I feel that it just wasn't a priority, especially since he's a DLC character.

Aside from that, Lucas really could use aerial buffs. Greninja finally getting his shuriken buffed and Ike getting much better frame data and hitboxes shows they have some understanding of how characters play and what they need to succeed. Lucas definitely got some buffs highlighting his stupider points (down tilt previously not even comboing into jab when it's in the damn trailer), so we'll see.

 

[Devil May Plop]

Jeez, last time I lurked here it was page 64...
Um, hi!

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Damn, ever since I bought the Lucas DLC, it's just like I'm 12 again. So much I missed about him.

 

[A Polar Bear]

I don't think I've ever seen someone bring it so far back from being so, so close to dying. Player: some Japanese test tube monstrocity named Star

 

[k-ta]

Japanese players confirmed Master Race

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

New Combo Video is up, hope you guys enjoy it!!!
Worked hard on it, I had 2 videos made but my Solid State Drive crashed and remade one, I think it's even better, lots of work in on it though...

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3jp2jt/psi_offense_up_a_lucas_montagecombo_video/

 

[Login_Sinker]

New Combo Video is up, hope you guys enjoy it!!!
Worked hard on it, I had 2 videos made but my Solid State Drive crashed and remade one, I think it's even better, lots of work in on it though...

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3jp2jt/psi_offense_up_a_lucas_montagecombo_video/

Hot damn, you always make the best combo videos. Nice work.

 

[A Polar Bear]

New Combo Video is up, hope you guys enjoy it!!!
Worked hard on it, I had 2 videos made but my Solid State Drive crashed and remade one, I think it's even better, lots of work in on it though...

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3jp2jt/psi_offense_up_a_lucas_montagecombo_video/

Why are you so good with Lucas? Why Blueberry syrup and not another flavour? Why does the Lucas in your icon have a detailed mouth when the original pic is just a white space? When are you going to answer these important questions?

 

[A Polar Bear]

Why can't I delete double posts?

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Why can't I delete double posts?

Here's what I saw done sometimes.

Step 1: Edit the lower post into the higher one, and acknowledge the 2x post in the lower one
Step 2: Use the report function, explaining that it was a screw up you caught yourself doing
Step 3: The mods will take care of the situation and understand it was a slip and not infract you

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

Why are you so good with Lucas? Why Blueberry syrup and not another flavour? Why does the Lucas in your icon have a detailed mouth when the original pic is just a white space? When are you going to answer these important questions?

Thank you haha, and I didn't know the original had a white space... Are you sure?

 

[A Polar Bear]

Thank you haha, and I didn't know the original had a white space... Are you sure?

fairly certain this is what the original looks like.

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

fairly certain this is what the original looks like.

I guess I'm a wizard.

 

[divade]

New Combo Video is up, hope you guys enjoy it!!!
Worked hard on it, I had 2 videos made but my Solid State Drive crashed and remade one, I think it's even better, lots of work in on it though...

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3jp2jt/psi_offense_up_a_lucas_montagecombo_video/

I can't give enough PK love for that. oh my hell.