Social PK Love - Lucas Social Thread: “Inside the mailbox was absolutely nothing”

[Login_Sinker]

Does anyone know if Lucas's Nair beats out Sonic's spin dash? I remember it working once but I haven't officially tested it.

 

[SkarmNightmare (Brett)]

l've figured out the secret to the mu

Spam forwardsmash

 

[k-ta]

~How to fight Olimar~
Step 1- Spam reflector
Step 2- That's it.

 

[A Polar Bear]

I have a mantra that I don't count wins against someone unless I did it with Lucas.

I could've beaten then handily with Ness, or crushed them with ZSS or Sheik, but until I've taken those stocks away as Lucas, I haven't really beaten them.

To be honest even though I'll never have the time to grow my play to a high competitive level, whenever I play seriouslies, Lucas is the only character I care about enough in this game to want to shape to be the best.

 

[pikazz]

not really adding to currect discussion but I want to share this:

made a Machinima (in brawl and Smash4) of how Lucas Joined Smash4 after being gone for a while!
a birthday present to my fiancie!

 

[Login_Sinker]

not really adding to currect discussion but I want to share this:

made a Machinima (in brawl and Smash4) of how Lucas Joined Smash4 after being gone for a while!
a birthday present to my fiancie!

Wow, that was pretty amazing. I'm moved.

 

[ilysm]

Whose decision was it to make this character so damn fun. I woke up yesterday and sort of understood how to play the Lucas neutral game and I've been having a blast! I think he's a better secondary than my Rosalina at this point. ^_^

 

[Login_Sinker]

Whose decision was it to make this character so damn fun. I woke up yesterday and sort of understood how to play the Lucas neutral game and I've been having a blast! I think he's a better secondary than my Rosalina at this point. ^_^

How do you play the Lucas neutral game anyway? I ended up dropping him from my competitive roster because he just feels so limited. Zair and PK Fire only do so much, and none of his aerials are safe on shield. T-T

 

[BasedGamerAce]

How do you play the Lucas neutral game anyway? I ended up dropping him from my competitive roster because he just feels so limited. Zair and PK Fire only do so much, and none of his aerials are safe on shield. T-T

I'm not the guy you asked, but I'll answer your question anyways.

I feel Lucas has a "time based"/ an "opponent based" neutral. What I mean is the way you play neutral depends on what your opponent does and how they react. I'll start off with a ton of pkf and zair spacing to force opponents into shield. Once you condition them into using shield too much, the fun begins. On some opponents you can literally run up and grab them (pivot grabbing is better just in case they spot dodge) because they've been conditioned to shield the second you do anything. Now that you have the grab, go do Lucas things. The next time you and your opponent are back in neutral they'll be more pressured (because making the wrong decision can lead to a ton of percent). This usually leaves opponents more open and can allow for more offensive approaches (nair, fair, ect.).

Basically, Lucas has a neutral that depends on your opponent, which is good but can also be very bad. If you're facing someone who's patient and doesn't mind waiting for Lucas to open up instead of vise versa you'll be in some trouble (or facing a sheik or fox. Sheik kinda just...wins neutral...unless they throw out an smash attack or something. Fox runs circles around us which kinda makes it harder to zone, and he can usually punish us in our pkf lag).

Hope this helped!

 

[ilysm]

^ Basically this, except Lucas has a few options outside of grab, zair, and PKF. Fair becomes safer to throw out once you get a feel for their movement patterns. Nair is similar in that you can use it to intercept a predicted approach for some good rewards. Ftilt is a good, safe poke option. Jab is super fast and basically gives you a tech chase at low/mid percentage. Even thought dtilt only combos into grab at higher percentages you can combo it into jab or utilt at lower percentages. I mean, he obviously lacks range, so treat these options gingerly. But they're not unusable.

 

[BasedGamerAce]

^ Basically this, except Lucas has a few options outside of grab, zair, and PKF. Fair becomes safer to throw out once you get a feel for their movement patterns. Nair is similar in that you can use it to intercept a predicted approach for some good rewards. Ftilt is a good, safe poke option. Jab is super fast and basically gives you a tech chase at low/mid percentage. Even thought dtilt only combos into grab at higher percentages you can combo it into jab or utilt at lower percentages. I mean, he obviously lacks range, so treat these options gingerly. But they're not unusable.

Right, that reminds me. I also like to space pivot ftilts in neutral. That's a fun thing to do.

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

Nothing after nothing came pouring out.

 

[KaptenFullkorn]

How do you play the Lucas neutral game anyway? I ended up dropping him from my competitive roster because he just feels so limited. Zair and PK Fire only do so much, and none of his aerials are safe on shield. T-T

OoS Nair helped wonders for me when i started to use it. And you can follow up with a psi magnet after your second jab - its not guaranteed but it works surprisingly well as a mixup. It sets up a tech chase and give you some breathingroom.

 

[FightAdamantEevee]

Nothing after nothing came pouring out.

I just now saw your combo videos that you sent me and they brought tears to my eyes.. so beautiful :'(

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

I just now saw your combo videos that you sent me and they brought tears to my eyes.. so beautiful :'(

Did you watch my newest one?
Thanks FAE <3 I miss you bud

 

[A Polar Bear]

I'm Star's number one fan on Smashboards.

At this point I'm almost convinced z-air -> grab at low-mid percents is true, even though I'm fairly certain frame data doesn't guarantee it.

The footstool combos Kreygasm.

 

[Login_Sinker]

So, real talk. How viable does everyone think Lucas is as a solo main? He's got his strengths, he's got his weaknesses. He seems to have a pretty high skill ceiling, so his potential is yet to be fully seen, but what conclusions can we make based on what we know so far?

 

[Lochy]

I think Lucas is really good but I'm also kind of biased. I currently main Ness and Lucas together (my sons lol) and Lucas lacks certain things from Ness but at the same time Ness lacks stuff from Lucas so I think it can be even tbh.
I think you can totally solo main him. He has a way better match up against Rosaluma and sheik because of his multiple options to get back to the stage. Also being able to wavebounce PK fire gives you more mobility options and his zair keeps people away.

Overall go for it! Continue to play and master Lucas! You'll be happy you did.

 

[JohnnyB]

So, real talk. How viable does everyone think Lucas is as a solo main? He's got his strengths, he's got his weaknesses. He seems to have a pretty high skill ceiling, so his potential is yet to be fully seen, but what conclusions can we make based on what we know so far?

I don't think any real conclusions can be made until we see how lucas performs in a big national. Characters like WFT(pre-buff mind you), G&W, and Jr. proved that they have viability at that level, but that they are essentially still mid-tier characters.

All we can really conclude is that at the moment there seem to be better choices than Lucas. Ness is a much stronger semi-clone and Ryu is a much better technical character.

Everybody knows that Lucas has hidden potential, but nobody knows for sure how far that will take him. Smash 4 is still under development, remember, and although i believe future patches will favor him there is every possibility that he will get neglected or even nerfed.

 

[HFlash]

I'm Star's number one fan on Smashboards.

At this point I'm almost convinced z-air -> grab at low-mid percents is true, even though I'm fairly certain frame data doesn't guarantee it.

The footstool combos Kreygasm.

Wow, I was going to post this, honestly flabbergasted at the creativity and skill of "Red" (the Lucas player) and then I see you already posted a video of his. Regardless, here's another video of some God-like Lucas play, enjoy .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAJwoZTzOC8

So, real talk. How viable does everyone think Lucas is as a solo main? He's got his strengths, he's got his weaknesses. He seems to have a pretty high skill ceiling, so his potential is yet to be fully seen, but what conclusions can we make based on what we know so far?

You could ask that question on this page: http://smashboards.com/threads/viability-ratings-v2-competitive-impressions.410551/page-229 which is a very active thread which talks about character viability.

 

[A Polar Bear]

It's not actually RED playing, it's Star (translate the description). Those two seem to be in cahoots :D.

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

New combo video is up, hope you guys enjoy!!

 

[Login_Sinker]

New combo video is up, hope you guys enjoy!!

I can never get enough of these. That ending had me dying.

 

[PKBeam]

I swear it was more lively last time I was here.

 

[A Polar Bear]

I swear it was more lively last time I was here.

You know anything having to do with Lucas has a very short life expectancy.

 

[Login_Sinker]

It's looking pretty likely that a balance patch will come with the new stage. What buffs to our boy do you all wanna see?

 

[JesterJaded]

It's looking pretty likely that a balance patch will come with the new stage. What buffs to our boy do you all wanna see?

Auto canceled aerials.

I'll take Usmash killing at 300% for auto canceled aerials.

 

[BasedGamerAce]

It's looking pretty likely that a balance patch will come with the new stage. What buffs to our boy do you all wanna see?

At least an auto-cancel Nair and Fair. That's the only buff I want and need. I don't want a single nerf either.

 

[k-ta]

Give Lucas realistic hair physics.

Honestly that's the most important buff Lucas needs.

 

[PKBeam]

I don't really have a problem with landing lag on his aerials, at least not enough to trade away our best trump card. Dair is the only bad one and at least that can be easily circumvented.

Buffered SH Fair autocancelling would have a similar duration to SHFF Fair, since its landing lag is so low. A retreating SH Fair that AC's would be nice but it's not like it's a terrible choice now.

Nair doesn't really gain much from AC. Maybe 5 frames extra combo time when you catch someone in SH Nair, but that would just be superfluous tbh.

If they made his SH a bit higher it might solve the problem, but a lower SH is better.

As for buffs, the thing I want most would be return of Zap Jump, but that's not happening, so slightly lower reaching hitboxes on the first two hits of Dair - just enough so that FH Dair can actually connect with medium height characters. After that it would be to get rid of the sex kick on Dsmash and either dump the spatial sweetspot on Usmash or give Usmash late hitboxes the same kill power as early hitboxes.

 

[A Polar Bear]

I want his up smash to kill at 40%.

Ok maybe not that early, but I just really want people to fear that move, instead of Lucas players fearing to commit to that move.

 

[JesterJaded]

I want his up smash to kill at 40%.

Ok maybe not that early, but I just really want people to fear that move, instead of Lucas players fearing to commit to that move.

I'd say 50 or 60% is fair, I mean even Little Mac's KO punch kills earlier but he has a host of other weaknesses that "make up" for it. Usmash doesn't have to be TOO OP for its endlag considering our other options, but definitely stronger than it is now.

Actually, if they extended the invincibility a tiny bit, shortened the endlag, and nerfed the kill power, I'd enjoy it as a pseudo counter / tank option. I think that would be something to fear.

 

[Login_Sinker]

I'd say 50 or 60% is fair, I mean even Little Mac's KO punch kills earlier but he has a host of other weaknesses that "make up" for it. Usmash doesn't have to be TOO OP for its endlag considering our other options, but definitely stronger than it is now.

Actually, if they extended the invincibility a tiny bit, shortened the endlag, and nerfed the kill power, I'd enjoy it as a pseudo counter / tank option. I think that would be something to fear.

That would be sick. I always have trouble trying to get someone with the invincibility frames on the move.

 

[PKBeam]

You have try to time it at exactly the same time. Like, exactly - 5 frames is 0.083 sec which is not much of a window at all.
It's much easier offline because you don't have a reaction time handicap.

I don't think the window should be extended any further than frame 8. If you extend the window to offset input lag then it makes it even easier offline. It's not like the window is in the middle of the starting animation - that would be really difficult - but it's right at the start.

The main difficulty is predicting an attack to tank, unless you're reacting to a super slow attack like Bowser Fsmash or Link's DA or a multi hitbox move attacks your shield like Pikachu Dair landcancel or GW/Link Dair. A shorter window promotes skill.

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

I would like to see PK Thunder end lag reduced by like .35-.50 seconds, or make it travel faster.

Dair to connect properly (This isn't even a buff, Yoshi can uair us through dair while he's being hit by it)

Dtilt to trip again and jab lock (It sweeps your feet, Bowsers dtilt trips and ours doesn't.)

Add 2 % more to nair, or make it so nair doesnt lag on shields so you can pressure with it instead of being punished everytime you nair someones shield.

Uair to have a hitbox pls.

Grab to reach like, a Mario hand further (best thing I could come up with)
Mario can fsmash and outspace our grab, which is uh... kinda bad. It's because he leans back but still, Smashes outrange a tether grab.

Any shorthop options that autocancels would also be nice.

These are just really small buffs/fixes here and there, most of these should already be in.


ALSO I WANT DSMASH TO HIT EVERY HIT!!!
Just because you shield it, the next 2 don't hit, and tbh that's dumb, NO other Smash attacks do that, it SHOULD do massive shield pressure, the next 2 hits don't do as much anyways, just make it not break shields right away, but it can be almost like a Marth neutral b (Not quite as good but VERY close), there are plenty shield breaks in this game, this would allow us to break shields and get U Smash kills.

No U Smash buff, I'd rather it be high risk high reward, heavy read.

 

[A Polar Bear]

Looks like we've all got our wishes written down, let's see if Santa Sakurai delivers.

 

[PKBeam]

Probably not.

 

[JesterJaded]

Dear Santa Sakurai,

It really doesn't make sense how Lucas' Zair is a mile long, but his grab is so tiny. Please extend the range and also shorten the startup lag, kthx.

Also bring Claus back.

 

[Login_Sinker]

Dear Santa Sakurai,

It really doesn't make sense how Lucas' Zair is a mile long, but his grab is so tiny. Please extend the range and also shorten the startup lag, kthx.

Also bring Claus back.

That was one of the first things I noticed about Lucas after downloading him. Just... why?

 

[meleebrawler]

That was one of the first things I noticed about Lucas after downloading him. Just... why?

Really only the dash grab that's short. Also the rule that tethers only hit as they're going out.