PK Cross: An Advanced Ness Guide

Gaussis · Nov 8, 2008

Well, I have noticed this when using it on the ground. Just wondering if it has a difference in the time it takes for Ness to snap out of PKT when it hits an opponent, the ground, or is outprioritized.

Justblaze647 · Nov 8, 2008

Oh! I've been looking for this thread!

Time to get into some Ness nastiness...

PKNintendo · Nov 12, 2008

Hey! EIDI!

Earthbound360 · Nov 12, 2008

Meh, I'll update it when I get my Wii back. I want to try it myself before I add it.

paper otavio · Nov 13, 2008

Thanks EB360!

I just know this will help my Ness game a lot.

Although,I wonder if anyone uses every single one of these........

Gaussis · Nov 13, 2008

I don't think everyone finds a use to every single tech in this guide. It's just something for Ness players to try for themselves. Learn one thing at a time and incorporate it into your game. That's how you will become better at using Ness.

Man of Popsicle · Dec 4, 2008

In dittos it seems kinda fun to thunder jump

Hit 'em with PKT, they Double jump, repeat.
Would be the best recovery in the game IMO.

Waael · Dec 7, 2008

I'm a fan of you EB360!

Also, I always wanted to make a Ness Suicidal Move, and I have, it's about more then 7 months old now, I call it PK Pickles, It works on mostly everyone, Easiest are heavy characters, But you need to get them at around 40-50%, And its really easy on MK too for some reason, but he,s really light. I also Did it on a Marth, you just need to position your jump!

Yep, I'm Linkhero32 and here is the video. In the past months I've did this to many people, and so have my friends, and one did it against me, It just makes Ness more epic!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1Xabg-z0v4

Gaussis · Dec 7, 2008

Sounds rather........finicky. Some characters can escape PKF rather quickly by just using their up-B recovery. This sounds good for the characters that can't escape it quickly, but for that, we already have this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULlJiVc2E7A.

Now, a PKT suicide using its tail...that would be awesome.

*goes off to find such a thing

Waael · Dec 7, 2008

Gaussis said:
Sounds rather........finicky. Some characters can escape PKF rather quickly by just using their up-B recovery. This sounds good for the characters that can't escape it quickly, but for that, we already have this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULlJiVc2E7A.

Now, a PKT suicide using its tail...that would be awesome.

*goes off to find such a thing

Yes, I just saw a video awhile ago about His PK Fire spike. But I meant for my move to be suicidal on purpose. The only character that can escape the PKF is Peach Or Zelda, But I got a peach mainer before.

Also if you Miss with the PKF you can recover back. Its not that hard if you miss.

Anyways, for the B sticking, I'm kinda worried if I should switch my controls to it, How long will it take to get use to it?

Man of Popsicle · Dec 8, 2008

B sticking is easy, just try it.

Waael · Dec 9, 2008

Man of Popsicle said:
B sticking is easy, just try it.

Ah thanks >_<

Man of Popsicle · Dec 15, 2008

Maybe five matches just to throw out a number.
At least for me. It's not that hard, as you really won't be using it all that much.

Uffe · Dec 20, 2008

I might use B-sticking more effectively. This is what I still need to learn. I can't seem to learn it for the life of me, though. Double PK Fire

Earthbound360 · Dec 20, 2008

Update: PSI Magnet Stopping does NOT WORK!!!

I might get aorund to adding a few more things later. I wuv my Wii.

Uffe · Dec 20, 2008

Earthbound360 said:
Update: PSI Magnet Stopping does NOT WORK!!!

I might get aorund to adding a few more things later. I wuv my Wii.

What do you mean PSI Magnet Stopping doesn't work? Is that the stall?

_clinton · Dec 20, 2008

Uffe said:
What do you mean PSI Magnet Stopping doesn't work? Is that the stall?

No it is removing knock back...the only way to remove knock back really is with Fair IMO...but whatever...

ColinJF · Dec 20, 2008

Using psi magnet in knockback actually gives you a boost AWAY from the stage... so it isn't much help.

As for forward air (and other aerials), they don't in themselves reduce the amount of knockback you take, but they do allow you to start making use of air control so that your horizontal air speed can counteract knockback (hold toward the stage). Also, if you fast fall an aerial, it makes you live longer vertically, because the (vertical component of the) launch speed required to kill vertically is simply an affine function of average fall speed over the total distance.

Man of Popsicle · Dec 21, 2008

Do any of ness' attacks have super armor frames?

Earthbound Zero · Dec 21, 2008

The first few frames of PK Thunder 2.

ColinJF · Dec 21, 2008

That's invincibility and it's a pretty sizable amount of time actually (a lot more than a few frames I think). You can plow through the blocks on green greens and not take any damage/knockback from any bombs.

Earthbound Zero · Dec 21, 2008

I didn't that about that. :o It must have actually quite a few invincibility frames at it's start now that I think about it.

Earthbound360 · Dec 21, 2008

No Ness doesn't. PKT2 has invul tho.

CO18 · Feb 8, 2009

this has to be the biggest brawl guide on swf

Uffe · Feb 8, 2009

CO18 said:
this has to be the biggest brawl guide on swf

And the s3xiest one at that.

PK Starstorm · Feb 10, 2009

yo EB, I'm wondering what tech do you use to counter G&W's key. that move is a major factor in my losses to him. alot of his move give me trouble, but his key and that fair of his completely screws me over. any advice?

Shaky · Feb 10, 2009

Shield the key, or use pkt2 on it since tail beats the key, uair will beat the key if timed correctly, get away from key?, shield the key, predict where he will land and then punish.

GW should not be giving you much trouble, unless, of course, you don't know the matchup.

xoxokev · Feb 10, 2009

bait the key and punish accordingly

Earthbound360 · Feb 10, 2009

PK Flash can beat the key, and a well timed SH nair out of shield works as well, but you must be VERY good with timing because punishing the key is extremely difficult because of its autocancelling ability.

And uhh... I disagree with you Shaky. G&W is probably one of Ness' hardest matchups IMO, maybe second hardest.

Ref · Feb 10, 2009

Earthbound360 said:
PK Flash can beat the key, and a well timed SH nair out of shield works as well, but you must be VERY good with timing because punishing the key is extremely difficult because of its autocancelling ability.

And uhh... I disagree with you Shaky. G&W is probably one of Ness' hardest matchups IMO, maybe second hardest.

You shouldn't say that...

On wifi G&w is nonpunishable. Get some offline experience. Then comment. Just the truth... Wifi can't determine a lot of match ups....

thesage · Feb 10, 2009

Earthbound360 said:
And uhh... I disagree with you Shaky. G&W is probably one of Ness' hardest matchups IMO, maybe second hardest.

Proof proof and more proof that Eb360 is ********.

I'm sorry, I don't understand why people think GaW is hard. He's probalby the top tier character I have the most experience with. Mk, Snake, Marth, DDD, ROB, and many others are harder than him. From what I've played (against GaW's who are better than me, worse than me, and about even then me) it's even. It also isn't like they don't have Ness matchup experience.

Earthbound360 · Feb 10, 2009

Wait, I was wrong, dair doesnt autocancel, so yeah, shield to stuff works.

And the bair is extremely annoying as well as the fact that he goes quite even with you in the air. Offstage he'll wreck you, and the matchup leaves everything to carefully placed approaches.

thesage thinks its even? Lulz. Wifi may suck, but I refuse to believe this matchup is 50:50 even offline.

Ref · Feb 10, 2009

Earthbound360 said:
Wait, I was wrong, dair doesnt autocancel, so yeah, shield to stuff works.

And the bair is extremely annoying as well as the fact that he goes quite even with you in the air. Offstage he'll wreck you, and the matchup leaves everything to carefully placed approaches.

thesage thinks its even? Lulz. Wifi may suck, but I refuse to believe this matchup is 50:50 even offline.

I don't even know about the numbers in this match up but it seems really to be a game of chance.

Smash Di the turtle as fast as you can in a direction... I forgot it's direction... comes naturally to me... The G&W would just look and say what happened? Then you can do some weird whatever you do.

WIFI fails do not even trust anything you learned online. Forget all of it all the match up experience... Except the skill you picked up.

I think it's the numbers are Magical - Weird... Truth is you can't really find balance at all in that match up. It may seem one thing then something different the next day.

Shaky · Feb 11, 2009

Earthbound360 said:
Wait, I was wrong, dair doesnt autocancel, so yeah, shield to stuff works.

And the bair is extremely annoying as well as the fact that he goes quite even with you in the air. Offstage he'll wreck you, and the matchup leaves everything to carefully placed approaches.

thesage thinks its even? Lulz. Wifi may suck, but I refuse to believe this matchup is 50:50 even offline.

Maybe you don't know the matchup so well and keep losing to them. Once you know the matchup, GW becomes MUCH easier to beat (I thought it was 70-30 before I knew the matchup, now that I know the matchup I think it is 50-50).

You just have to practice vs GW constantly, reading the matchup wont guarantee an improvement vs GW.

_clinton · Feb 11, 2009

Ref said:
You shouldn't say that...

On wifi G&w is nonpunishable. Get some offline experience. Then comment. Just the truth... Wifi can't determine a lot of match ups....

>_>
Funny thing about people talking about Wifi...everyone says they are effected more (which is so ****ing funny to me)

I mean talk to AtoZ or some other G&W...they say G&W has issues on Wifi as well...

Uffe · Feb 12, 2009

Ref said:
I think it's the numbers are Magical - Weird... Truth is you can't really find balance at all in that match up. It may seem one thing then something different the next day.

I wouldn't say magical, but they are weird. I was able to beat a G&W multiple of times and then the next day it was different. I mean I know what G&W is capable of and how to avoid it, but as you said, it's something different the next tday.

xoxokev · Feb 12, 2009

I've never played a decent GW before my recent tourney... and I got rocked

I kept thinking I could punish GW's fsmash, but dtilt comes out so freaking fast... also dsmash to another dsmash is lame... and you can't juggle with PKT because GW will just bucket it... however it could be good for baiting the bucket to PKT2. This matchup was difficult for me... I need more GW practice

_clinton · Feb 12, 2009

xoxokev said:
I've never played a decent GW before my recent tourney... and I got rocked I kept thinking I could punish GW's fsmash, but dtilt comes out so freaking fast... also dsmash to another dsmash is lame... and you can't juggle with PKT because GW will just bucket it... however it could be good for baiting the bucket to PKT2. This matchup was difficult for me... I need more GW practice

The IASA frames for G&W's smashes makes them almost impossible to punish...really...the lag for his Usmash is pretty much 0 because of the IASA frames

A2Z has shown me what a good G&W looks like (that SOB is good with G&W ok)

In truth...PKT is the best tool for this match up...along with PK Jump...

thesage · Feb 12, 2009

pkt? lolwut?

_clinton · Feb 12, 2009

thesage said:
pkt? lolwut?

It is...fake outs are fun...

PK Cross: An Advanced Ness Guide

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