PK Cross: An Advanced Ness Guide

[Gaussis]

pkt? lolwut?

You don't use it ? How do you tackle this matchup?

G&W isn't as hard to handle as the other top tier characters because of his predictable options (all which are punishable easily due to Ness's competing range. If you lose badly to G&W, it's most likely because you didn't read them well (this is why Wifi fails to reflect skill, reading characters like G&W is a lot harder).

 

[thesage]

I tend not to use it vs. GaW. Bucket brake doesn't really affect me since b-throw kills early anyways (it's to fast for gaw to get out the bucket) and I rather not fill his bucket.

I tend to use fair and u-smash a lot.

I use pkt juggling against other chars.

 

[ColinJF]

it's to fast for gaw to get out the bucket

This is the second time I've seen this now (on two different forums).

Moves don't kill at different rates if they are launching with the same force. Let's suppose that Ness's back throw at X% launches with exactly the same force as some arbitrary other move at Y% (and with DI, their angle is the same). Then they will both kill in exactly the same number of frames and they will both have exactly the same number of frames of hitstun. Moves don't have some mystical property that governs how quickly they kill.

So, of course Mr. Game & Watch can make use of bucket braking to help him survive Ness's back throw.



I like to use pk thunder versus Mr. Game & Watch, not for reasons relating to bucket braking though.

 

[thesage]

@Colin, I meant that Ness' b-throw sent GaW at a velocity fast enough that he doesn't have time to get out the bucket at reasonable percents (like 120 ish).

 

[ColinJF]

Well... that's true for every kill move, depending on how you define "reasonable". If the move has a higher growth rate then all momentum cancelling strategies will make less of a difference in the percent you can survive them at. Ness's back throw has a high growth rate for a throw, but not really for a kill move in general.

It's definitely not something you can ignore. Bucket braking makes a measurable difference in the earliest percent you can kill him at. Of course, you'll rarely be getting grabs when he's exactly at the minimum kill percent, so it's not that big of a deal, but as I said that's true for every kill move.

Just something that falls under match up knowledge. You wouldn't want to waste a throw that isn't going to kill him.

 

[thesage]

Well... that's true for every kill move, depending on how you define "reasonable". If the move has a higher growth rate then all momentum cancelling strategies will make less of a difference in the percent you can survive them at. Ness's back throw has a high growth rate for a throw, but not really for a kill move in general.

It's definitely not something you can ignore. Bucket braking makes a measurable difference in the earliest percent you can kill him at. Of course, you'll rarely be getting grabs when he's exactly at the minimum kill percent, so it's not that big of a deal, but as I said that's true for every kill move.

Just something that falls under match up knowledge. You wouldn't want to waste a throw that isn't going to kill him.

120 is pretty reasonable compared to other character's choices lol.

 

[hdrevolution123]

Oh my f***! How the hell am I supposed to remember all of those ATs??

 

[xoxokev]

Oh my f***! How the hell am I supposed to remember all of those ATs??

Try using flash cards

 

[hdrevolution123]

Try using flash cards

Just for Ness?? I think I'll just stick to what I can remember lol

 

[Arigon]

Wow great guide, great compilation. This will definitely help in my quest to get better at Ness.

 

[Zookeeper7]

This is a little off charachter,but if u Pk Jump with Lucas it does a UBER sized jump called the Zap Jump.But hey i only do it 4 fun(and an occasional recovery).Try it out sometime if u didnt know.Also i prefer Ness over Lucas in case ur thinkin I don't like Ness.By the way good job on the guide(good PK Fire techs especially .





Go Ness!!!

 

[smash64]

PK fire is one of the best techniques that Ness have!

 

[NintenJoe]

great guide. It would be nice if it was a tad more organized though...

 

[Uffe]

great guide. It would be nice if it was a tad more organized though...

I'm kind of thinking about revising this topic. But at the same time the one thing holding me back is that I'd feel like an *** if I did. I mean if it weren't for Earthbound360, I most likely wouldn't be here. Well, actually I just remember that I joined waaay back under a different name, but because of F-Zero GX.

Still, I most likely wouldn't have been here had he not messaged me back telling me to send him messages from here since he reads them here.

 

[Eagleye893]

Possible ness AT that could be useful. I did it a couple of times consistently.

First, when in the air above the edge of a platform, position yourself to pkt2 directily into platform (floorblast). Pkt2 at the absolute edge of that platform where you will still hit the platform, angled only slightly towards the ledge. When you hit the ground at the proper point you don't continue moving along/parallel to the platform with pkt2 or and up lying on the ground but instead completely cancel all ending lag and can do nearly anything directly out of it. Don't have a video, but if some other people could test to be sure, this could be really useful.

 

[AvariceX]

^needs a video. Also don't speak of angles when talking about PKT2. The only thing that matters is the location the PKT makes contact with Ness' body; the angle is of absolutely no consequence.

 

[Uffe]

It sounds familiar. I might know what he's talking about. Is this what you're talking about, Eagleye?

Weird Ness PKT2 Glitch

We know this isn't a glitch, but whatever, it's an old video.

 

[Jtails]

how about dropping from the ledge and immediately using absorb but face the other way (opposite of hanging on the edge), and you can double fair to block the ledge.

AT or T you decide. lol

 

[Uffe]

Jtails! So good to see you. That sounds interesting.

 

[Eagleye893]

@ uffe: that was it.

@ averice: I say "angle" for some wierd reason when talking about pkt but i really mean direct the pkt so you fly in X direction. i just shorten to angle and hope people know what i mean.

 

[Uffe]

Ah, good! :D Well I've seen it about a year ago and then recently saw it again. So it was still fresh in my memory of what had happened and where it took place. All I had to see was the title and Lylat Cruise as the image.

 

[Eagleye893]

so are we going to try and expand a pawn this? i think it could be one of the most usefull ness techs ever, but i have to see if it works on ledges as well, but my brother took mah wii!! ill have it bak soon.

 

[Uffe]

I can't test this myself since I lack a working Wii. It might just work on slanted platforms. If it's possible to use on flat platforms, then this could be useful.

 

[AvariceX]

Someone needs to find a way to make our PKT2 sweetspot hit twice...I don't have a freaking clue how something like that would ever be accomplished, but I'm sure having a move that auto-shield-breaks would be a slight boon to our metagame XD.

Until then all PKT2 techniques will remain risky because of the ability to shield -> punish (on the ground anyway).

 

[OnYourMark]

*Wakes up*

I have so much to learn about Brawl Ness... x.x thanks for the guide and all the posts. All 300 of the posts.

 

[_clinton]

Someone needs to find a way to make our PKT2 sweetspot hit twice...I don't have a freaking clue how something like that would ever be accomplished, but I'm sure having a move that auto-shield-breaks would be a slight boon to our metagame XD.

Until then all PKT2 techniques will remain risky because of the ability to shield -> punish (on the ground anyway).

To get PKT2 to hit more than once you have to be between each target...

Which is why characters like the Ice Climbers could have some issues dealing with said move and why you should take aim at things like Wario's bike, Snake's nades, and other things with a hit box like Luigi's mansion pillars...

To explain you smack Popo's shield with PKT2, but then you hit Nana's shield...well Popo's target is at risk again...

 

[Cacti]

No, the best new PKT2 technique would be if someone found out how to glitch it to make PKT be able to rise with Ness' DJ instead of canceling it, knocking Ness into the rising thunder causing him to auto-floorblast.

It would also give mim an awesome KO move.

But one can only dream...

 

[Eagleye893]

I can't test this myself since I lack a working Wii. It might just work on slanted platforms. If it's possible to use on flat platforms, then this could be useful.

I did it on battlefield twice, so yes it does.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

You can do some really trippy stuff with Psi Thunder.

 

[Lightosia]

Guys, I think I found a new setup for jab locks.

Do you know when someone is shielding in a platform and they get hit by an attack that pushes them out of the platform and go into a falling animation?
When they bounce in the ground, you can follow up with a jab lock!

Can someone test this with two players?

 

[Eagleye893]

Yeah, I've done it a couple of times, but the other player can normally use something before landing and prevent being jab locked... Although... Could you fastfall through the platform with sourspotted fair and force them into a jab lock? I don't think so, but that would be awesome.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

I just wanted to say reading this guide makes my brain hurt, but in a good way. Ness has some treats just like Sonic.

 

[PsychoNess]

Lol I can't get double aireal shuffle riet :3

 

[Uffe]

Lol I can't get double aerial shuffle right. :3

I can't remember if there are two types of aerial methods, but a double aerial shuffle (DAS) should be nair in the air and just before you land on the ground. I can't remember if that's a DAS, though. Good for spotdodgers.

 

[AvariceX]

The idea of double aerial shuffle is that you can use different combinations of aerials (hence the term shuffle).

SH >
-bair > uair
-nair > nair
-nair > fair
-nair > uair
-bair > nair

All of those are examples of the double aerial shuffle. I'm pretty sure there are other combinations but those are the only ones I use often.

 

[Eagleye893]

can't forget the fair>nair.... unexpected hit from nowhere if you use fair right out of SH and land with nair. but people catch on to that very quickly.

 

[Valiant]

Nice techniques, this is helping me become a better ness player for sure, =D

 

[MagicalTervor]

This is an incredible guide. It has almost everything about Ness there is in one post. It's a looooong post... but still, all that information in one convenient post is awesome. I can't thank you enough for writing this.

 

[Hyesz]

I just wanted to say reading this guide makes my brain hurt, but in a good way. Ness has some treats just like Sonic.

Same, it's really big but that's the brilliance of it.

I'll probably go through this, trying out anything I find that I didn't already know.

Thanks for teaching me some Yoyo Tricks, that'll help my Ness a little at least.

 

[Ch3s]

Ok this is such a big guide its hard to keep track of it all! But something stuck out and its kinda buggin me. Is there a difference between Double Jump Cancel (DJC) and what you call the Rising Aerial or whatever. It sounds the same but idk if ur doin somethin different to specifically make it rise?