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Thanks for the info, that does makes sense. But so far, Captian Falcon and Marth have something awfully close to horrible Pivotboosts. Captian Falcon has moderate Pivotboost and Marth's Pivot animation takes so long to complete, it leaves him way too vulnerable. I may just need to practice a bit more with Captain, but Marth's got me puzzled.
Nice, so you have experience with this. First, how many people actually used this technique (in tournaments)? I don't attend them as much as I used to, but at least half the roster can make use of this, espcially Samus, and I haven't really noticed any one using it. Second, the input commands, did you have Tap Jump ON or OFF? I found it extremely hard to perform this technique with Tap Jump ON, and it's close to impossible to perform the Reverse Pivotboost with Tap Jump ON. In your vid (at the end), where it says Craqwalk = Pivotboost Old News, how old is this, 'cause it seems like a lot of people are unfamiliar with this. It also seems like this technique is Link specific, when it's not, and I remember a lot of people showing a strong dislike for the name Craqwalk.
A lot of the better Link players use this skill because it allows for better tech chasing and allows you to do a moving downsmash. Tap jump is on.
You know you don't have to crouch to do this right? By the way that "boost of speed" is actually a nice smooth slide that can be used to throw yourself and a smash attack at the enemy much like the wavedash did in SSBM.
yea because a moving dsmash or fsmash is totally useless right? this move is not useless at all, just because you have only found a few implementations from it doesnt mean that its useless. watch the very end of the video i uploaded for this very thread. that technique works wonders on low % foes.
Nope, close but no cigar. When you chain Pivotboosts together, you get an increase in speed, no matter which character it is. However, Samus benefits well from both reverse and normal Pivotboosts, as shown slowly in Demo 3, :13 - :19, and in Demo 4, :32 - :38, which increases her speed when performed consecutively, offense/defense when using a Reverse Pivotboost to avoid an attack and using the spacing gained to your advantage, and mindgames. Pit also gains from the Pivotboost and Reverse in the same manner as Samus. Walking and crouching is actually what got me started on this whole thing. Now, I realize that anything done out of a Pivotboost can be done out of a walk, however there are a few more advantages that come out of Pivotboosting, compared to walking. This technique is not to be abused, this is not Melee 2.0.
I'm not in a place to re-test this, but, without crouching, there will be no boost in speed. If I'm not mistaken, if you were to Pivot then walk, you would be cutting off the boost too early. The only other way to take advantage of the boost in speed is to attack by tilting, or smashing (or grabbing). I think of the crouch as a "neutral state." Since you can't return to "stand still" position without killing the boost, the crouch is the closest thing "stand still".
You know what, now that you mentioned it, in some of those Demo's, like Pit for example, I was actually performing somewhat of Pivot Smash. However in the Meta-Knight vid, I would Pivotboost, then F-Smash. I'll have to re-test Pit to see if there is a difference and try to keep that in mind for future testing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfgzVCD3uS4
Crouching isn't useless. It's great for d-tilts, *getting to the other side of the stage faster than if you were to walk, **and is a great approach to opponents who camp. * I'm going to use your example, the one at :42, Pivot -> Smash or Pivot -> Tilt WILL SLOW YOU DOWN compared to crouching after each Pivot, which allows you to chain the boosts together further increasing your speed. Watch the first 8 seconds of this Demo. Keep in mind that this when I first began my research. **Watch at around :55.
This "nice smooth slide" you refer to is the momentum gained from WALKING. Performing this trick+attacking has the same effects as walking+attacking. However, because walking is easier to do, you're likely to perform your intended attack sooner.
You cannot attack in the middle of a pivot boost. If you did you would probably be attacking in the wrong direction since you have to rotate the control stick to perform a pivot boost. However, you CAN attack at any time during a walk, and it's also easier to change directions. The only thing I have found that a pivot boost can do better than a walk is to: get closer to your foe and then use a dtilt facing the wrong direction. Fun. =_=
No, actually there is no increase in speed. You're merely re-using the momentum gained from initial walking speed. Unless a character has a faster initial walking speed than their normal walking speed (doesn't this sound a lot like fox-trotting?), only then will they get a boost in speed. Samus MAY be an example of this, but crouching slows this down enough to make me think that walking is still more effective. Pivot boosting requires more finger motion than walking (a rotation of the control stick with tap-jump off). So if an attack was dodge-able via pivot boosting, it is very likely that the same attack can be avoided by walking.
you can attack in the middle of a pivot boost, but the longer you wait the longer the slide is. you DON'T rotate the control stick, you tap left, tap right then do an action, its no slower than doing a dash dance to JC'd upsmash with fox.
Thats nice, since my controller is already arranged that way because thats how i use it for boost smashes, thanks, before, I was hopeless!
if i had a wii right now i would totally shut you down again, but instead i'll use a wall of text
All three of these techniques are the exact same because, all three of these techniques share one irreplaceable command, holding back. This is the main reason why all of these techniques work, not because of the crouch, first turn, or landing animations. The only reason why these techniques are performed differently is because they are all used to achieve a different sliding direction.
Good argument Arkive, however you're misunderstanding the argument I am making. And you actually didn't shut me off, I responded on that post and you never gave back an answer. So instead of repeating what I said, here's a video to clarify things
nice video, but the reverse pivot slide wasn't performed correctly, as i've already said its a little trickier to pull off, but you should slide just as far as the rsb
thats because you crouched when the slide ended and you took a step forward, i crouched during the slide and held down. The crouch doesn't affect the slide at all as my video proves clearly. what you're doing is hiding the extra steps that link is actually taking with a crouch. so technically you slide and walk out of it, which creates the extra distance. the crouching still has nothing to do with the slide, you might as well walk out of it.
Can you make a video of doing the reverse pivot slide? And is it faster than the RSB? If so, then dope that clears things up. Do the same thing as I did, start with Link's back foot at the left tip of the Diamond in FD. Then do the reverse pivot slide + Fsmash. Note where Link's backfoot lands. (In the case of the RSB, the back foot ends inside the first left arrow slightly in front of the tip.)
I believe the SB is faster but I've been meaning to do that comparison (it's just I haven't figured out how to do it with my crappy video editor (Cyber Link PowerDirector)). But once I do figure out we'll see
i dont have a wii lol....
no hard feelings here, i actually want you to prove me wrong so then i don't look like the only person on the link boards that can actually gather data lol....
How am I telling people that they're doing it wrong, like your way is set in stone? Using the control stick slows people down because they have to tap the control in the opposite direction before going foward. When using the C-Stick, you only have to tap one button to pivot, allowing you to pivot without compromising speed. The points you made with your vid at :22 and :42 are invalid. At :42 you F-tilt. Do that again without attacking and what do you have? A stand still, you stop the moment you do nothing after a Pivot. What if the person doesn't want to F-Tilt (or Smash) after an after a Pivot, but has the intention of approaching their opponent? Chrouching after a Pivot allows the player to carry their momentum in a near neutral state, allowing them to do much more than Tilt or Smash.
Your technique is what actually what got me started on this whole thing. I was actually maining Falco at the time and I was trying recreate the Tekken Wavedash. I noticed that the crouching had an effect on falco's speed. I began to play with the control scheme and by turning tap jump off, I discovered that when I rotated the control stick 315 degrews, Falco slid backwards and reverse his stance ending in a crouching position (reverse Pivotboost). Checkout the very first Demo I did and you'll see what I'm talking about. Through more expirementaion I found that when I slowed the rotation down, I could do the roughly same thing, except a pivot happens, and I could go further(normal Pivotboost). I was convinced (and still am) that this was totally different from the pivotslide becasue after the pivot an attack was necessary. The pivotboost went further than the pivotslide and left you in a position were you didn't have to attack, making it different than anything else discovered. The Smooth boots is actually quite nice, but at :53 when you combine with the pivotboost with the SB, it's a pivotboost. At :50 (and in the intro) you were perfoming the Pivot slide. I hope you can see the difference, ArkiveZero aswell. I plan to do more analysis of this technique (and others) in the future. I honestly do think that we are working on the same technique however, I am amazed by ArkiveZero. Coming in my thread, telling me how to do my technique.
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=t6jdzQteqiAComing in my thread, telling me how to do my technique.
i dont have a wii because im in california lol
My technique, that was a joke, lighten up, and just because you think it's "easier" doens't mean your way is correct. You must not have read my wall of text. Rotating the joystick was found through expirementation, I doubt if any one, would still do that. I haven't removed it from the OP so that people can compare the two methods. Using the C-stick is more effective. And I did know that in April, I knew that when I started this thread. . . remember? I had a link to the pivot slide thread in the Link boards to compare these two techniques.
Okay. . .before we go any further, I think we should sort things out. It's kinda like 52 pick up at the moment with all of our techniques. From what I understand:
