Pit Matchup Discussion - Bowser

[Coffee™]

The boards are rather lacklustrer to me at the moment so I'm posting these matchup threads. The matchup summaries for all finished matchups will be completed later.

Boozer

Bowser


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Pros

Pros and Cons from Wikicheats.com since the Bowser boards don't have any.

I personally don't think all of these are accurate, but whatever.

Pros:
- Very fast Forward Aerial attack
- Good horizontal recovery
- Fast dashing speed
- Good at edgeguarding
- Bowser Bomb attack hits opponents on the way up as well as down
- Up Aerial A Attack is one of the strongest in the game
-Whirling Fortress attack can be used laterally as well as above
- Fire Breath can be aimed and has little lag

Cons

Cons:
-Largest character in the game, makes for an easy target
- Most moves are short-range
- One of the easiest characters for opponents to combo
- Poor vertical recovery
- Poor grab range
- No real combo attacks
- Long lag for most attacks
- Slow jumping/landing animation

Discuss!!!

 

[rinoH]

grab release?

 

[MrEh]

- Most moves are short-range

Haha, not really.

Arrows aside, he has the range advantage on the ground.

 

[yummynbeefy]

Pros:
- Fast dashing speed
huh? lol

i think this is one of pits easier matchups while bowser has a grab realease and can do alot of stuff out of that pit, can stay away with his arrows and such also his recovery is totally sheild capable, as well as having faster attacks and being faster than bowser overall id say a 65-35 or at least 60-40 edge cuz bowser is the least of my worries

 

[MrEh]

as well as having faster attacks and being faster than bowser overall id say a 65-35 edge cuz bowser is the least of my worries

Speed isn't everything. If that were true, then Sonic would be high tier.

Yes, Pit attacks faster, but Bowser outranges him. (Arrows aside.) 65-35 is just...silly.


EDIT: Nice edit. Har har.

 

[rinoH]

im thinking 55:45 or 60:40 havent played any great bowsers

 

[Nikenick]

I tried to make a summary:

Bowser:
- More killing power
- Heavier
- More range at most if not all of his attacks
- Grab release combos
- Can edgeguard with flames to gimp WoI ( I know Pit can glide and has 3 jumps but it's still possible)
- Bowserside can change a match
- Slower
- Big target
- Better aerial range

Pit:
- Can chaingrab bowser from 0% ~ 40%
- Mirror shield can reflect Bowser's Fortress
- Arrows
- Better recovery
- Isn't the best at killing
- Better ledgecamping
- Multiple hit aerials.

I think I forgat some. So if I did, please tell me.

Bowser will be forced to approach Pit because of Pit's arrows. Arrows will be a real pain in the *** for Bowser since he's really big. Sure, they can be Powershielded, airdodged, roldodged, spotdodged or just shielded but they will still limit Bowser's options. Bowser will get combo'd quite easily from 0% ~ 60% because of Pit's chaingrab with some combos following up ( chaingrab - dash attack - usmash or utilt / chaingrab - nair ). But don't think that you'll get Bowser that easily. If he hits, he hits hard. Bowser has some fast tilts and he outranges Pit easily. You'll see that Bowser can get you to 80% - 100% fairly quickly with just a few attacks while you've been comboing him like crazy. On top of that, Bowser is really heavy and he has way more KO power then you. You'll see that Bowser will sometimes live at 160% - 170% while you get KO'd at 100% - 110%. It's true that Pit can gimp Bowser easily, but you need to get him offstage first. That's kinda hard with such a heavy character. Bowsercide is something to look out for because it can cost you and Bowser a stock, but Bowser will likely do this when he's at a high % and you're at a low %.

Overall I think it's 55-45 maybe 60-40 Pit.

This might not be 100% accurate, so if I said something wrong just quote that part and tell me what's wrong about it. If you're right then I'll edit it.
I'm already expecting MrEh to quote 1 little word or sentence and critisize that so don't worry

 

[yummynbeefy]

Speed isn't everything. If that were true, then Sonic would be high tier.

Yes, Pit attacks faster, but Bowser outranges him. (Arrows aside.) 65-35 is just...silly.


EDIT: Nice edit. Har har.

i didnt even see your post when i edited it i just rethought the matchup and though "well bowser does have some range on him" and changed it
speed is a factor though dont forget that if pits f-smash takes 5 frames to come out (or something like that) vs bowsers that takes like 50 (i dont think that many but ya know just examples) pits smash is going to be harder to powersheild and dodge effectively

 

[MrEh]

Bowser will get combo'd quite easily from 0% ~ 60% because of Pit's chaingrab

Do you know what spinning like an idiot looks like?

pits smash is going to be harder to powersheild and dodge effectively

He doesn't need to shield it if he just attacks from a further distance away. Bowser's Fsmash>everything.

 

[rinoH]

lol bowser fsmash has wavedash in it and ive played some good Bowsers and yeah they spin like idiots alot but get away sadly

 

[MrEh]

lol bowser fsmash has wavedash in it

It's not a wavedash. Bowser's Fsmash just has a huge drawback animation, and a bogus hitbox.

But yeah, it's too good. It screws up spacing...a lot.

 

[Afropony]

If Pit was chaingrabbing Bowser and bowser used his UpB Pit could wait for him to use his UpB and punish the ending lag of it.

 

[Metatitan]

idk about pit (im just making the assumption cuz hes an arial char) but f smash screws up my spacing when im jiggs. btw mreh the drama is posted in the JBR i hope u liek it

 

[MrEh]

If Pit was chaingrabbing Bowser and bowser used his UpB Pit could wait for him to use his UpB and punish the ending lag of it.

Now we're getting into mindgames. Using that same logic, I could predict that you'll try to bait me and choose NOT to use my up B. Then I can punish you. But wait! What if you predict that I'm going to see through your ruse, so you grab me anyway? Aha! But you didn't know that I predicted that you would predict me predicting your prediction! Haha!

...

You hear how stupid that sounds? That's why we shouldn't even factor mindgames into this.

btw mreh the drama is posted in the JBR i hope u liek it

Sweet.

 

[Nikenick]

Bowser shouldn't be able to use his up B if Pit chaingrabs him perfectly. But it's possible to use Fortress if the Pit screws up, yeah. Bowser can also jab if Pit screws up, it happened to me alot on WiFi.

 

[MrEh]

Bowser shouldn't be able to use his up B if Pit chaingrabs him perfectly. But it's possible to use Fortress if the Pit screws up, yeah. Bowser can also jab if Pit screws up, it happened to me alot on WiFi.

Fortress has a frame advantage over the Jab, so it's usually better to use that.

 

[SkyRay]

I've always found it incredibly easy against bowser.
Quite a large target for arrows, and quite easy to juggle (easier than other characters anyways).
Also easy to ledge guard against Bowser's weak recovery, not to mention its one of the easier up-b's to shield with.
Dodging Bowser is quite easy and should make for an easy match all together.
I've never had problems against my friend as Bowser, of course its probably one of his lower secondaries.

 

[MrEh]

I've never had problems against my friend as Bowser, of course its probably one of his lower secondaries.

And therein lies the problem.

 

[Afropony]

Although Pit still does have the advantage.
And what he just said is mainly true.

 

[MrEh]

Although Pit still does have the advantage.

This is true.

And what he just said is mainly true.

This is not.

I've always found it incredibly easy against bowser.

Something is very wrong here. If it's incredibly easy for you, then the Bowser you're playing must suck. Incredibly easy would mean something like a 70-30 matchup, which is clearly ********.

Quite a large target for arrows, and quite easy to juggle (easier than other characters anyways).

This is true, but the actual effectiveness of this is exaggerated.

Also easy to ledge guard against Bowser's weak recovery, not to mention its one of the easier up-b's to shield with.

I'm not going to discuss this again. If you're gimping Bowser with your shield, then Bowser is doing it wrong.

Dodging Bowser is quite easy

Meet Bowser's Jab. If Bowser gets right next to Pit, what are you going to do? Run?

 

[SkyRay]

Meet Bowser's Jab. If Bowser gets right next to Pit, what are you going to do? Run?

powershield, lol

 

[MrEh]

powershield, lol

Jab outranges your ground moveset, so powershielding it doesn't give you any significant advantage besides being able to roll away 7 frames faster. It's punishable if Bowser does it 1 inch in front of you, but Bowser should be spacing his jabs anyway.

By your reasoning, I could use that to explain why Pit's arrows are useless against Bowser. Why? powershield, lol

 

[yummynbeefy]

well you have a valid point

after fighting this guy (who has a phonominal bowser) i think the matchup is more like 60-40 possibly even 55-45 pits favor

 

[MrEh]

i think the matchup is more like 60-40 possibly even 55-45 pits favor

It's probably either one of the other, it really doesn't matter which.

Pit has the advantage, but not a significant one.

 

[PukeTShirt]

just popping in to say that i follow almost every bowser mathcup thread for the sole fact that i know Mr Eh will be debating in them. His sig is legendary, and for an added treat, he debates very well and politely. Well Played sir, well played

 

[Admiral Pit]

I should be representing these angels here. As a former Bowser Mainer and a Pit veteran, I should be able to help out in some way, though I wont be completely specific.

 

[Doctor X]

I play against Sliq's Bowser a lot. I find the chaingrab isn't too big a deal, because any damage advantage that Pit gains from it is a bit negated by the fact that all of Bowser's moves are absolute MURDER and can easily kill Pit at much lower percentages than vice versa, which is not especially common seeing as Pit usually lives for freaking ever.

Mirror shielding Bowser is difficult, but possible. You'd probably see it happen at least once in a set of me vs. Sliq, though it's declining in frequency the more we play.

I'd say 60:40 to Pit.

 

[B!squick]

I have nothing to say. MrEh always steals the spotlight, lol.

 

[Bowser King]

I have nothing to say. MrEh always steals the spotlight, lol.

So true >:D

MrEH stop being so awesome

-Bowser King

 

[Seagull Joe]

the bowser mains have arrived.
bowser's fair and ftilt can outrange all pits moves.only bad thing is arrows **** bowser

 

[Admiral Pit]

Pit is outranged by Bowser, especially from F-tilt, and F-air, which are 2 of Bowser's fastest moves.

Pit can force Bowser to approach simply by shooting arrows (Charged arrows can go through Bowser's flames and hits Bowser directly).

-Pit's CG (err, chainthrow) is pretty decent against Bowser, but more effective against DK, because Bowser could escape with his quick Up-B if the Pit is slow + Bowser DIs away from Pit. Some Smart Pits such as myself, can forcefully stop the CG, wait for Bowser to use his Up-B, and then we can attack again.
-Bowser's Grab release game is the best, and with some practice and skill, Bowser himself can Chaingrab poor Pit.

Boswer's Defensive options (like Fortress outta shield) are great,
I'll have to get back on this later, which school being a pain and all. Besides maybe MrEH would like to steal fame again.