Piklopedia - The Olimar Matchup Thread (1st ed. complete, open discussion)

[Zard lover Doom Desire]

Ganon's recovery is not worse than cloud's.

Ehhhh, his up special alone is much better, but in terms of making it back overall, I'd say it is, due to Cloud's higher air speed, higher jumps, wall jump, lower falling speed(?) and I think lower gravity. But if we're strictly talking about up specials, Manon is better.

 

[Mothman]

For the Bowser match up, I would say that this one is in Olimar's advantage. Bowser is slow enough that Olimar can pretty much avoid his approaches as well as safely go in for most grabs due to his grab range. , His weight allows olimar to be able to combo him more easily than other characters. His fire breathing also doesn't do much to keep Olimar away, since the red pikmin can still attack through that. Olimar can wall Bowser, but Bowser can be dangerous if he actually manages to get a hit, an ideal stage to take him to imo is somewhere like lylat cruise, the platforms keep his down b and down a from being a big danger. This is probably one of those times where FD isnt ideal for Olimar.

I can't really say much on the mewtwo and ganon much ups as I rarely face them.

 

[StripedNinja]

I think you'd be surprised how mobile Ganon is, and our Dash Attack will kill thrown purple pikmin. It might be your advantage but you need to play REALLY careful or we can end a stock in two mistakes. If you say you have a 70-30 advantage against Ganon wouldn't that make ZSS also a 70-30 advantage because she kills off mistakes too? The only proper edgeguarding you have against us is throwing a purple into the abyss, and our recovery isn't bad, it's just a our air speed.

Dash attack clashes with purples? Unless you mean when they're already on the ground but Oli will likely be looking out for you trying to kill them and punishing your option.
Any of our edgegarding tools work fine against Gannon. You can run off with any areil and if you correctly read the airdodge (or lack thereof) you're dead. Or if we throw a purple forcing you to airdodge and then catch you out of it with an ariel you're dead. Or if we think you're gonna up B we can try to space a dair or if we don't want to risk that we can catch you below the edge with a dtilt or dsmash which is pretty easy to get against Ganon. Yeah you can kill early off of reads but that's literally every character vs Ganon. I don't really understand your ZSS comparison.

 

[StripedNinja]

Dash attack clashes with purples? Unless you mean when they're already on the ground but Oli will likely be looking out for you trying to kill them and punishing your option.
Any of our edgegarding tools work fine against Gannon. You can run off with any areil and if you correctly read the airdodge (or lack thereof) you're dead. Or if we throw a purple forcing you to airdodge and then catch you out of it with an ariel you're dead. Or if we think you're gonna up B we can try to space a dair or if we don't want to risk that we can catch you below the edge with a dtilt or dsmash which is pretty easy to get against Ganon. Yeah you can kill early off of mistakes but that's literally every character vs Ganon, if the opponent is playing well and careful there's no reason Ganon should win. I don't really understand your ZSS comparison.

 

[AjuicyPineapple]

Mewtwo can struggle with Olimar in neutral because he shadow ball is almost obsolete because of Pikmin and can't stuff approaches with down tilt because Olimar really shouldn't approach. He only has reflector which can be baited and what not but that's all Rock Paper Scissors. And mewtwo a offstage game is amazing, he'll have no problem gimping oli off stage . He can go off stage with back air and if oli try's mixing up going high, he can just do a rising back air which covers a crazy amount of space. Olimar is also one of the few characters that gets put on battlefield platform from confusion which usually leads to an up smash

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

We have a couple sets against olimar to watch. Neither of which I think accurately represent the MU because of how uncommon it is to fight Olimar. Le Troof's game 1 against Logic was abysmal. Not only did he SD, but he missed two guaranteed Uair followups in a row that would have secured a kill at 70-80%. And he didn't have the MU experience to know how to respond to pikmin throw. Sitting and jabbing incoming pikmin was the wrong call, because you only have three active frames to work with, and pikmin have different trajectories and travel speed depending on color. Shielding is also bad for us because while pikmin can't latch to a shield, they can still latch on to Bowser's back side if we let go too early. Fire Breath is much better, especially on stages that lack platforms. It stops and desyncs all pikmin before they get close, except for reds. But that's just if you really don't want to approach Olimar. We're also free to just run through and tank the latch damage. We're not in danger of dying until well past 100%, a little latch damage is fine if it means successfuly grabbing Olimar for Uthrow to Utilt or Nair. Either move kills all latched pikmin while getting its 15-30% damage in. As for Uair, you can expect it to kill starting in the mid 70 range. Rage and Uthrow staling can lower it further. Olimar has pretty desirable falling stats to escape or just be too high to reach past 100%. On Battlefield or Dreamland, Landing our Side B on the top platform can kill at these higher percents where Uthrow is a liability. And if Olimar has reached past 100%, just about all of our moves have the knockback to kill in the right scenario.

Being able to sustain twice as much damage as Olimar can with each life sounds desirable, but we really can be at a loss as far as getting past walls of flying pikmin. Besides mindlessly running past to dash/pivot grab him, we can Fortress out of a run to beat dodge options. It will also kill any currently or soon to be latched pikmin. Short hop autocancelled Fair and Bair can put in some work against Olimar's poor OoS options. Much of what we can do loses to one or more options, but I strongly feel aggression is the way to play here. Or at least using our running speed to get to punching distance and then stopping. Our skid stop is only about 8 frames, so we can respond to retreating pivot grabs or smashes on reaction, then close the distance for a punish. We can edgeguard Olimar very well, but he's never in a position where he needs to recover low via Up B. We can get a lot out of trades since our limbs are intangible during hit frames. And if we're ever too pressured to land, we can fall or double jump to the nearest ledge and bomb straight there to grab it. We have a lot of ledge hop mixups from the ledge. Bowser's troubles with landing are pretty overblown. If you're familiar with A-landing, we can do that with an aerial command grab and there's no tight time window that we need to meet. It always autocancels. Landing with Side B into shield, jab, Fortress or just using it to face a certain direction are all great because they cover so many of the opponent's aggressive options at once. It's rare that we'll ever have to tech the ground as well, thanks to the move. Finally, Bowser's jab confirms into a lot of moves, including dash grab. But Olimar can double jump on reaction if he's hit by the furthest part of the punch. Bowser's primary niche as a heavyweight is excellent options to stave off aggressive approaches, and Olimar is not an aggressive character with conventional approaches.

I think if both players have equal MU knowledge and skill, the match should be around even if not in our favor. But realistically, a lot of us don't know what to do about Olimar, so you can win an easy set against Bowser by staying non-commital and defensive. Any moment you're within punching distance of him, you run the risk of massive damage or death.

 

[Theosmeo]

Dash attack clashes with purples? Unless you mean when they're already on the ground but Oli will likely be looking out for you trying to kill them and punishing your option.
Any of our edgegarding tools work fine against Gannon. You can run off with any areil and if you correctly read the airdodge (or lack thereof) you're dead. Or if we throw a purple forcing you to airdodge and then catch you out of it with an ariel you're dead. Or if we think you're gonna up B we can try to space a dair or if we don't want to risk that we can catch you below the edge with a dtilt or dsmash which is pretty easy to get against Ganon. Yeah you can kill early off of reads but that's literally every character vs Ganon. I don't really understand your ZSS comparison.

The ZSS comparison was meant to represent punishes, not reads. Ganon can read but he's better at punishing, and because it's so easy for him to kill pikmin you'll have to be plucking a lot. Dash attack AND down B straight up kill purple pikmin who are thrown and down B can lag be canceled. Dtilt will not work at the edge because of ganon's huge ledgegrab box and grab box on his up B out spacing both, and once he's on the ledge his insanely safe ledge grab protects him from harm. If you think runoff aerial is a good way to stop a recovery you clearly haven't fought ay ganon that knows how to mix up their recovery well. If having two purples is the safest neutral for Olimar Ganon can remove that advantage instantly, forcing 5 plucks and 4 throws off-stage before Olimar can regain that advantage.

 

[BarSoapSoup]

Mewtwo can struggle with Olimar in neutral because he shadow ball is almost obsolete because of Pikmin and can't stuff approaches with down tilt because Olimar really shouldn't approach. He only has reflector which can be baited and what not but that's all Rock Paper Scissors. And mewtwo a offstage game is amazing, he'll have no problem gimping oli off stage . He can go off stage with back air and if oli try's mixing up going high, he can just do a rising back air which covers a crazy amount of space. Olimar is also one of the few characters that gets put on battlefield platform from confusion which usually leads to an up smash

Remember that since Oli is short, Mewtwo can suffer a lot of whiffing problems with him. Mewtwo can't take advantage of Oli's landing lag with grabbing, nor can he use a U-Tilt to cover his backside should Oli get close behind him. There is also always the issue of 'phasing' in which a small character will land or is about to land directly in front of a big character, then 'phase' through them when the bigger character tries to attack.

 

[StripedNinja]

The ZSS comparison was meant to represent punishes, not reads. Ganon can read but he's better at punishing, and because it's so easy for him to kill pikmin you'll have to be plucking a lot. Dash attack AND down B straight up kill purple pikmin who are thrown and down B can lag be canceled. Dtilt will not work at the edge because of ganon's huge ledgegrab box and grab box on his up B out spacing both, and once he's on the ledge his insanely safe ledge grab protects him from harm. If you think runoff aerial is a good way to stop a recovery you clearly haven't fought ay ganon that knows how to mix up their recovery well. If having two purples is the safest neutral for Olimar Ganon can remove that advantage instantly, forcing 5 plucks and 4 throws off-stage before Olimar can regain that advantage.

Well again I dont think we need 2 purples at all, and purple pikmin during their throw will clash with any attack, not take damage. But plucking all the time doesn't really matter when we can cancel pluck into anything, it isn't really punishable. I use dtilt at ledge against ganon with success so I'm not sure what that's about, maybe poor spacing on the ganons part. And I didn't say runoff ariel is the best I said if we correctly read the ganons mixup offstage it is usually death, and runoff areil is one of many options. Dsmash at ledge can straight up kill ganon due to his bad recovery even with his jump cause of the angle.
I'm not saying ganon has nothing but there's a reason he's regarded as so low, and his weaknesses in my opinion are too great to compensate for. Olimar generally isnt a punishable character, with his quick safe projectiles and walling game. Dash attack is really the only solid approach option ganon has and that isnt safe if we see it coming. It just isn't enough imo, an Olimar playing well and safe should never lose to a ganon

 

[Blue Banana]

we can cancel pluck into anything

Grounded Pikmin Pluck isn't cancellable; it just has a very fast FAF that lets Olimar quickly do something else, at frame 9.

 

[G. Stache]

Hello Olimar mains! Your character has been requested for this week's MU discussion. If interested, please don't hesitate to click the link below.

http://smashboards.com/threads/luigi-match-up-discussion-thread.382918/page-14#post-20827152

 

[Xinc]

Ganon doesn't appreciate being pelted byPikmin, and has a deceivingly GOOD ground game. Many of his attacks kill Pikmin, and he can set up Olimar for a quick KO from just a choke at an insanely low percent. (Around 60ish near the ledge, that's about 3-4 hits without Flame Choke). Ganon's neutral isn't as good, but he has several ways on resetting situations. Not to mention, as a heavy character, you'll find killing a little bit difficult.

I understand Olimar has many tools and ways to take advantage of Ganon's weaker approach options, as well as subpar aerial speed. Though I would measure this around even, or a slight advantage on your end.

 

[Theosmeo]

Well again I dont think we need 2 purples at all, and purple pikmin during their throw will clash with any attack, not take damage. But plucking all the time doesn't really matter when we can cancel pluck into anything, it isn't really punishable. I use dtilt at ledge against ganon with success so I'm not sure what that's about, maybe poor spacing on the ganons part. And I didn't say runoff ariel is the best I said if we correctly read the ganons mixup offstage it is usually death, and runoff areil is one of many options. Dsmash at ledge can straight up kill ganon due to his bad recovery even with his jump cause of the angle.
I'm not saying ganon has nothing but there's a reason he's regarded as so low, and his weaknesses in my opinion are too great to compensate for. Olimar generally isnt a punishable character, with his quick safe projectiles and walling game. Dash attack is really the only solid approach option ganon has and that isnt safe if we see it coming. It just isn't enough imo, an Olimar playing well and safe should never lose to a ganon

That's fair I guess, I just think you really shouldn't underestimate Ganon. Good talk though. Maybe we should play sometime too. I probably won't rep ganon too well though, I need to work on him more,

 

[Shmeckie]

I think this one might surprisingly be in Ganon's favor, but only slightly. While the Pikmin can give Ganon a hard time, Ganon can destroy Pikmin pretty easily, and outranges all but Olimar's smashes. Furthermore, Olimar's recovery leaves him a sitting duck against one of the game's best edgeguarders, and his lighter weight means you can't afford to take many hits at all. Approaching him air-to-air is even more dangerous now with his new n-air, and his DA plows through thrown Pikmin. Going for a d-smash or f-smash leaves you open for a jump-in f-air from Ganon, which is going to kill you if your % is looking a little on the red side. Plus, Ganon has a lot of ways to kill Pikmin that are latched on to him pretty quickly and safely.

Beware of that aerial down-b, too. Seems obvious considering how FG Ganons just throw this out, but a smart Ganon is going to save this until you get antsy with a throw follow-up and drop down on you like a comet. This move is strong when it's fresh, and it's very likely to kill you, so keep it in the back of your mind.

Ganon's recovery can be deceptive; remember that it is only horizontally bad. He can actually recover quite well from down deep, and Olimar doesn't really have any edgeguard options that can beat out Ganon's excellent u-air. This makes edgeguarding him more difficult than it may appear. He also has one of the game's largest ledge snap ranges, so hitting him right by the edge won't work either; he'll often seemingly teleport to the ledge if you try to smack him away at the last minute. Make use of your superior air mobility to go for less obvious spike and gimp attempts. Jumping right at him hoping for a d-air will get you flip-kicked.

Also of note, Olimar is unique in that he, more than any other character, cannot afford to miss teching the Flame Choke. If you do, Ganon has every option available as a follow up. Including an option he only has against Olimar; a d-smash. And d-smash was buffed big time a few patches ago, meaning a missed tech is going to get you killed.

I actually play pretty frequently with a skilled Olimar, and I have a good deal of practice with this matchup. While Olimar has spacing options, and a disjointed throw, Ganon has a lot of power, and a lot of tools to get around Olimar's shenanigans. The main tool in Olimar's arsenal to handle Ganon, besides throwing Pikmin and timing your whistle armors, is the disjointed throw. Abuse this, but don't get predictable with it. Familiarize yourself with the range of his best pokes, don't approach him with aerials in neutral if you can help it, and you'll do fine.

And for the love of god watch out for that Flame Choke. It's more dangerous for Olimar than anyone else in the cast.

 

[Zard lover Doom Desire]

So are customs banned from Evo 2016? Because my mains will suffer a lot, especially in the off chance of an Olimar main showing up.

 

[Blue Banana]

So are customs banned from Evo 2016? Because my mains will suffer a lot, especially in the off chance of an Olimar main showing up.

As far as I know, it depends on what the Smash 4 community says.

The question isn't appropriate for this thread, though. You should look in the Competitive Discussion board for an answer.

 

[Zard lover Doom Desire]

As far as I know, it depends on what the Smash 4 community says.

The question isn't appropriate for this thread, though. You should look in the Competitive Discussion board for an answer.

It's sort of relevant, I was talking about customs earlier, just wanted to know.

 

[Freezie KO]

Made a thread for us to share early MU impressions and Olimar/pikmin interactions for the new DLC characters. For example, how Witch Time works with latched pikmin.

 

[Mr. B]

Maining Mewtwo, I find that Olimar is one of characters I REALLY don't like to come up against. Sure, I have a reflector at my disposal, but its kinda slow, and easily baited (as someone already mentioned) especially when Oli already makes me paranoid.

He is an underused character, so maybe part of my problem is that I haven't had enough encounters to find the best strategy. I am so used to being rushed down and playing defensively (Mewtwo's optimal playstyle, IMO) that Olimar makes me come unstuck; DTilt (my main combo starter) becomes useless in these conditions. I find Oli hard to read too, and since winning with Mewtwo is primarily hard-read>PUNISH, I tend to have a bad time.

I seem to have the most luck when the Olimar tries the gimping game, since recovery-and-retaliate is so easy with Mewtwo's FAir and NAir. It also seems to be the time when my reflector is the most effective. However, the best Olimar players seem to already know this, and they often only try it once before learning quickly.

I feel like my NAir should kill attacking Pikmin with all that fancy electricity running over my skin, but it just tickles them a bit.

 

[StripedNinja]

Grounded Pikmin Pluck isn't cancellable; it just has a very fast FAF that lets Olimar quickly do something else, at frame 9.

Sorry you're right I think my brain went to 'cancel' thinking of the animation for the empty pluck. But yeah point is it's pretty safe.

 

[Blue Banana]

Event 51 cleared! I'm moving discussion on to the next set of characters a little earlier than usual because I'll be busy tomorrow. Thanks for all the responses.

is an even matchup.
is a slightly disadvantageous/even matchup.
is a slightly advantageous matchup.

------------------------

Discussion 16 - Space Fighters II: The Buster Arrives

()

Falco Frame Data
Samus Frame Data
Cloud Frame Data

No old posts.

Discussion will be closed on Friday, February 12.

 

[Xygonn]

Olimar wins. Pikmin eat cs. Olimar's best ko options are vertical. He is short has small hurtbox. Very tough mu. Samus' autolinking hitboxes work better on olimar than most of the cast though. Like fair and usmash, but we can't hit you with usmash on the ground.

 

[Zard lover Doom Desire]

This is a heavily advantageous matchup. Samus has no options against Olimar, Pikmin wall out her one good move, he has a good up smash which smashes floaty fighters, he can carry fighters offstage, which will kill Samus if she loses her jump, provided he takes her far enough. Up smash is even more useless than normal, side smash is slightly more useless than normal, and down smash is still the worst smash attack in the game, and they're all quite punishable. Her strong, or tilt, attacks are pretty bad anyway, with the exception of her strong up attack which isn't even that great, so they won't be good on the tiny captain either. As Xygonn said, the autolink attacks are slightly better because Olimar has a thick frame, but those moves generally won't hit in the first place. Bombs are...well...not so good, they're mostly for setups and stopping approaches, neither of which apply to Olimar who doesn't have to approach you or get close when at a disadvantage. Only things that work well on Olimar are down air and Screw Attack, which are easier to land and kill earlier, respectively. Oh and back air is a thing, pretty strong, pretty hard to hit Olimar with. Don't play Samus if you know your opponent is picking Olimar is what I'm saying, and pick Olimar if you know your opponent is picking Samus, close to unwinnable I'd say, though not quite.

 

[Zard lover Doom Desire]

Cloud is slightly at an advantage here. Olimar can't force Cloud to approach as much due to Blade Beam being an amazing projectile, so Olimar may have to do the approaching, and Cloud hurts when you approach. He can do all but a few moves out of Limit Charge, so he's unpredictable, and his neutral air is great for slaying Pikmin, already on him or flying towards him. Cloud's godly range easily outclasses the captain's inconsistent range, he's additionally very good at killing floaties. His smash attacks are extremely hard to punish, having high shieldstun and little endlag, best to just hang back and maybe charge a side smash. There is good news, Cloud is super gimpable if his limits aren't broken, easily dying to a few forward airs offstage, though don't bother edgeguarding from onstage, Climhazzard will hit you. This is a common theme by now, but Olimar is easy to edgeguard unless he has no Pikmin, Cloud will very likely get a kill if you can't tech, or if he meteors you. He can also hit you with a two press Cross Slash into a down throw into a full Cross Slash, it works on nearly everyone, even a little man like Olimar. Play safer than you usually do, you might win. Slight advantage to Cloud.

 

[StripedNinja]

Cloud is slightly at an advantage here. Olimar can't force Cloud to approach as much due to Blade Beam being an amazing projectile, so Olimar may have to do the approaching, and Cloud hurts when you approach. He can do all but a few moves out of Limit Charge, so he's unpredictable, and his neutral air is great for slaying Pikmin, already on him or flying towards him. Cloud's godly range easily outclasses the captain's inconsistent range, he's additionally very good at killing floaties. His smash attacks are extremely hard to punish, having high shieldstun and little endlag, best to just hang back and maybe charge a side smash. There is good news, Cloud is super gimpable if his limits aren't broken, easily dying to a few forward airs offstage, though don't bother edgeguarding from onstage, Climhazzard will hit you. This is a common theme by now, but Olimar is easy to edgeguard unless he has no Pikmin, Cloud will very likely get a kill if you can't tech, or if he meteors you. He can also hit you with a two press Cross Slash into a down throw into a full Cross Slash, it works on nearly everyone, even a little man like Olimar. Play safer than you usually do, you might win. Slight advantage to Cloud.

I would disagree and call it even for the reason that blade beam is like completely negated by pikmin. Since the hitbox is so tall it will basically clip on any pikmin anywhere on the feild, and this includes limit breaker blade beam. Oli definitely doesn't have to approach.

 

[Zard lover Doom Desire]

I would disagree and call it even for the reason that blade beam is like completely negated by pikmin. Since the hitbox is so tall it will basically clip on any pikmin anywhere on the feild, and this includes limit breaker blade beam. Oli definitely doesn't have to approach.

Cloud can use Limit Charge, he won't care if a few Pikmin latch on, and you have to be much closer to hit with a Purple.

 

[StripedNinja]

Cloud can use Limit Charge, he won't care if a few Pikmin latch on, and you have to be much closer to hit with a Purple.

I'm not talking about pikmin being latched, I'm saying that Clouds projectile just goes away as soon as it touches a pikmin anywhere on the feild. Because of this Cloud absolutely has to approach.

 

[Zard lover Doom Desire]

I'm not talking about pikmin being latched, I'm saying that Clouds projectile just goes away as soon as it touches a pikmin anywhere on the feild. Because of this Cloud absolutely has to approach.

And he can do so, quite efficiently.

 

[-The Gucci Fairy-]

Event 51 cleared! I'm moving discussion on to the next set of characters a little earlier than usual because I'll be busy tomorrow. Thanks for all the responses.

is an even matchup.
is a slightly disadvantageous/even matchup.
is a slightly advantageous matchup.

------------------------

Discussion 16 - Space Fighters II: The Buster Arrives

()

Falco Frame Data
Samus Frame Data
Cloud Frame Data

I'll edit in old posts for these characters later.

Discussion will be closed on Friday, February 12.

So I havent posted in here for a while but,
Key Points vs our free friendly neighborhood

-Spacing

-Shield(he has no followups or kill options)(if he grabs you, air dodge oor jump away from the throw, or try to di down and shield at 0), Play the matchup by forcing him to grab u-u could beat him otherwise and heavy punish him if he attacks and mispaces on your sheild-be mobile-dash shielding ----->Mix up your OOS options cuz more than likely he will punish u by waiting what u chose to do out of it

- Force him to use and lose his limit break, by throwing him off the ledge (when he has to use up B ) TL:DR MAKE HIM WASTE HIS LIMIT

- Yellow Dsmash onstage edgeguard (easiest when he uses his double jump and has to upB)


-Cloud has nothing guaranteed from his throws
if he down throws you-you can air dodge or jump away'


-be smart about your landings

Misc:

-He has to approach you (be smart and play around his limit break BS, respect it but dont fear it, one use and he has to start all over again)
-Edgeguard for early kills (dsmash/fair/purple)
-Play careful vs his fully charged limit break( based on the position you and he are in)
-Always at least have 1 purple( follow ups and recovery purposes)
- Save jumps if you can/ but opt into using it do mixup vs his upair/
-You can whistle his upair juggles
-His upsmash has little cooldown
-While charging limit break he can cancel it easy
-He can dash cancel into anything
-He can spam upairs all day unless he is in limit break, he can only use it once in LB.
-In essence treat him as a falcon/roy hybrid
-Be wary of getting early killed by clouds up B (limit break or not) idk how this actually works if ur too close to the blast zone

 

[StripedNinja]

And he can do so, quite efficiently.

Sure, and Olimar can wall out quite efficiently. And both can abuse each others recoveries. So like it's even.

 

[Blue Banana]

Reminder that discussion will be closed on Friday. Any input on the Falco MU would be appreciated since there are no posts on him yet.

 

[Kon]

Oh man, I missed quite a few discussions again.

I'll add my two cents to all the match-ups I have a bit experience against.


One thing that you should always keep in mind when playing vs Toon Link is definitely the fact that bombs bounce of the shield and there still are a threat in the air. So shielding and moving backwards is especially important vs Tink's bomb throws to avoid situations where a bomb may surprisingly hit you afterwards. Purple Side B is so important in the MU as the side b beats the boomerang and arrows and keeps an active hitbox which means it's a good tool to punish boomerangs. (and arrows too) Avoiding the bombs is in my opinion a key-element, because by avoiding the bombs you don't give Tink the possibility to follow up the bomb with an aerial. Depending on the range, fsmash can be useful vs boomerang and arrows too, but I prefer purple side b. Offstage I sometimes throw a purple to catch Tink, but this only makes sense when he didn't take a bomb out first. Otherwise you'll just waste your purple while Tink still comes back which would be a bad trade after all Also in this MU, powershielding will be important. Any other side b than purple can stop arrows and the boomerang when timed right. Also be aware of Tink's strong bthrow. Especially with rage, you should not let yourself get catched by a grab near the ledge.
Tink's zair is a good tool to keep pikmin away. So when you're throwing Pikmin at him, he can stop them with his zair if timed right.


I'm pretty sure that Olimar's fsmash beats Bowser Jr's side b. So a main approach tool of Bowser Jr doesn't really work on Olimar. Fsmash can even be fast enough to destroy a mechakoopa first and then perform another fsmash to hit Bowser Jr. as far as I can recall it. Getting pikmin attached on Bowser Jr isn't that hard. Of course fair can eventually pretend pikmin from attaching on Bowser Jr, but the fair has also some cooldown, therefore double side b should at least get one pikmin attached on him.
There is one thing I'm not sure about. I'll probably test it tomorrow to be sure about. I wonder if the fsmash keeps an active hitbox after destroying the mechakoopa or if the hitbox disappears after the destruction of the mechakoopa. This is an important thing because an active hitbox would give Olimar an important advantage similar to Villager's lloid setups. As said I'm not sure about this and I'll just test it.
Bowser Jr's Side B fakeouts should be punishable with a side b and even if it misses, you're not letting yourself open for too much, because Bowser Jr's Down B takes some time to take out a mechakoopa and the mechakoopa keeps some time to approach you too. Also Side B has some startup frames, so trying to punish the fakeouts on reaction shouldn't be a bad idea after all no matter if the bowser jr goes for down b or side b afterwards. Even if he shields, well the pikmin toss at worst would miss while still not creating any opening for the opponent.
What may work in Bowser Jr's favor is the rage effect as he can survive pretty long vs Olimar. This makes his killoptions like smash attacks and upb to hammer really scary. However in the footsies game I am normally out of the range of any smash attack.


As my brother is a Lucas main, I can tell some things about this MU. First things first, a yellow pikmin attached onto Lucas is pretty good as most of his moves have electro-hitboxes. Only his fsmash, upair, jab, dtilt and zair can be used to actually kill the yellow pikmin. It's good to know because this means his get off options are very limited vs yellow pikmins. In general I prefer throwing out many side bs to wrack up damage as this works best so far. Keeping the distance while attaching pikmin on him. Also going offstage vs Lucas is generally spoken a bad idea as he has this electro-hitbox during his upb making it hard to land the spike(I only catched him a few times with purple dair but timing looks very strict). Often you get hit instead of getting any further advantage by going offstage. Therefore you should better just try to cover ledge getups instead. Dtilt near the ledge can be nice to catch lucas during his upb and maybe get the 2frames punish. You can throw pikmin at lucas with your side b to shorten the recovery, but most of the time, the effect wasn't that big vs lucas and he still managed to grab the ledge anyways. You can stop the PK fire with your side b, but keep in mind that the pk fire hitbox gets extended by the pikmins.
Lucas can also reflect Olimar's smash attacks with his fsmash, so better be careful when to use smashes vs Lucas.
Another thing I found pretty useful is juggling Lucas. When positioning yourself under Lucas, his best tool is to dair, but when you jump and bait out the dair, then fastfall you can catch him afterwards with an upair. This is interesting, because of his limited options to cover his landing. He has to expect you to either go immediately for an upair and throw out a dair higher up in the air or he expects you to first only go for a bait and then upair him and time his dair closer to the ground. However this works best on fd and smashville which are two stages I honestly don't pick often vs Lucas. I prefer playing vs Lucas on stages with more platforms such as Battlefield, T&C, Lylat and Dreamland. In general I like playing as Olimar vs Lucas.


Charizard is interesting, because as an heavyweight he survives pretty long and therefore can benefit of rage. His upthrow is buffed by any stage with higher platforms. It's the main reason I would play on stages like FD, Smashville and maybe Lylat. Also Charizard's jab looks pretty fast. A friend of mine likes to space with nairs in neutral and cover his landings right afterwards with a jab. Also the fire of Charizard can be pretty annoying as it can make it harder to attach pikmin on him and the fire is also pretty good to cover ledge getups or at least corner you right away. Also keep in mind that Charizard has some moves with super armor that he may like to use. Edgeguarding Charizard isn't that easy too. I honestly prefer to cover ledge getups instead of going offstage vs Charizard. I like juggling Charizard above the stage. His dair isn't that fast and therefore it is doable to land an upair before his dair hitbox becomes active. However keep in mind that he could go sometimes for a down b instead and catch you when performing an upair thanks to the super armor. What makes the Match-up a bit hard is the fact that Charizard has much killpower and this gets even buffed with rage. Charizard as an heavyweight will benefit much of rage vs Olimar while Olimar has to build up much damage and the higher the percentage, the more you have to work for the percentage as combos won't work anymore at higher percentages.


I feel like Olimar slightly wins the match-up, because he doesn't have to approach Ganondorf after all. He can stay out of Ganondorf's range and ignore baits such as throwing out many upsmashes in a row i.e. The neutral goes to Olimar by far. However if Ganondorf ever lands a side b and Olimar misses the tech, for some reason Ganondorf's down-smash can connect before Olimar can act from the ground. At least this worked a few patches ago. I haven't played many Ganondorf players since then and if so, they didn't use the dsmash after Ganondorf's side b, so I can't say for sure if it's still the same. Especially after the whole changes on getup frames of many characters, this may need some testing again. If it still works, Ganondorf has a quite strong killsetup vs Olimar. Also offstage Ganondorf can be very scary with his dair-spike, upair and bair. So you have to be very careful when recovering vs Ganondorf. Probably the best thing would be to use the upb without any pikmin to recover high and far away from Ganondorf maybe even on a higher platform in order to have the time to plug pikmin right after landing onstage. When you get Ganondorf offstage and you have a purple pikmin, throwing the purple at ganon while he tries to recover will most likely be enough to gimp him.
I also know that Olimar can crouch under some moves of Ganondorf. I know that he can crouch under Ganondorf's down B. I think he can also crouch under the normal-angle fsmash of Ganondorf. Also while it's not really that useful, he can crouch close to Ganondorf when he is performing the Warlock Punch and the punch will miss Olimar. However as said, the warlock punch isn't something you'll have to face often and most of the time you'll probably go for an immediate punish during the startup lag of the Warlock Punch instead of waiting in a crouch close to Ganondorf.
The main issues in the match-up are rage(as Ganondorf benefits much of this when you don't gimp him) and being offstage vs Ganondorf is probably a situation you don't want to be in. However as Olimar wins the neutral and doesn't have to get into the range of any of Ganondorf's moves, he can safely wrack up percentage and then finish the stock sooner or later. This is the reason why I would put the MU slightly in Olimar's favor.


With the 1.1.3. patch, Bowser got some significant buffs, especially buffs for his grabcombogame. With 1.1.4. the koo-pa doesn't work that long anymore, but still his combogame is pretty good out of grabs. Most of the time, Olimar will have to stay out of Bowser's range and at some points get a grab in order to wrack more percentage with dthrow + upairs. Offstage I think Bowser isn't that scary. He can't jump too low offstage, he has no spike options, his bair is pretty slow, his nair isn't really good offstage, so all what's left is his fair offstage or performing his fire near the ledge. Keep in mind that Bowser can get kills on platforms too with his side B command grab. So I would like to pick flat stages such as Omega or Smashville at best. Rating the match-up as even seems not far off especially because Bowser as most heavyweights gets scary with rage. However Olimar has a good neutral vs Bowser and he can wrack up percentage vs Bowser pretty effective too. Bowser has problems getting something started vs Olimar, but his killconfirm, especially with rage, is something you always have to keep in mind as well as a rage side b on a platform which can also be a strong killoption. I would guess it's even or slightly in Olimar's favor because of the neutral game advantage.


Mewtwo can be very annoying with his side b. You have to be careful when to use smashes in order to not die early. Also Mewtwo has a killthrow and he has strong smashes which can lead into some early stock losses too. It's hard to juggle Mewtwo as an Olimar player because his nair can beat our upair(as well as fair, dair, bair). That's all I can think of right away.


Respect Falco's reflector. As it has a hitbox that is thrown away, I often find myself approaching with dash shield. When you shield the down b, it usually has enough ending lag so you can get a grab punish right afterwards. Also in neutral you should probably only use side bs. Pivot fsmashes are risky because of the reflector especially because it covers a good range after all. I like to dtilt to punish aerial approaches of Falco. Falco can be a threat offstage because of his fair killing pretty good offstage. Also his bair is pretty fast, so he can punish you pretty good with either a bair or fair when recovering too low. Olimar isn't that bad to wrack up percentage at low% easily, especially as Falco has no combobreaker. I often find myself conditioning Falco to reflect Olimar's side bs and then go in with dash shield afterwards to get a grabpunish when he still tries to use his reflector at closer range. From what I experienced so far, Falco isn't that good at approaching. However he has some low% combos.
From my experience Olimar has a bit trouble to really get things going. If he however gets a grab, he can get quite some percentage onto Falco. Also Olimar has a hard time recovering vs Falco. And you have to be very careful when to use an fsmash. These are in my opinion the big issues Olimar has in this match-up. However he definitely can condition Falco into reflecting side bs in order to later on get a grab and wrack up some percentage.
I would see the Falco match-up at least slightly in Falco's favor mainly because of his strong offstage game giving Olimar a hard time to recover.


I've played a few Samus players so far and while you have to put in some work, I feel like Olimar wins the match-up. You can destroy Samus' missiles with the fsmash and Pikmin on the way back to Olimar can block a fully charged charge beam of Samus too. This is the main reason why I tend to always have at least one pikmin on the way back to keep me safe from a fully charged charge beam. However keep in mind that half-charged beams may fly over the pikmin and therefore still be needed to be blocked. Her zair and her grab have a good range from what I remember. I like to pick stages with platforms such as Lylat, Battlefield, Dreamland and so on because you can better avoid projectiles with some platforms to jump around. Especially as Samus can't follow fast in the air, you don't risk too much by sometimes jumping on a platform. Also Samus can get comboed pretty well by Olimar once you get a grab. Egeguarding Samus isn't that easy however, so I honestly prefer to just cover ledge getups instead. What may make the match-up hard sometimes for Olimar is the shieldpressure Samus can apply when a missile hits your shield(if you don't get the powershield on it) or you once need to shield a charged beam. These are the main tools to slightly decrease your shield and make you perhaps vulnerable for a dash attack even when sitting in shield. Also the projectiles may condition you into shielding much which allows Samus to get a grab. However I can't remember Samus getting much out of grabs. Olimar and Samus both have to put in quite some work in neutral, but Olimar can get more damage out of a single opening. Therefore I would tend to say it's in Olimar's favor.


Cloud has a good tool to force Olimar to approach, because Cloud in neutral often starts with charging his limit and normally people don't want Cloud to fill up his limit for free. So Olimar needs to do something. He can of course throw pikmin with his side b at Cloud to get him into shielding and therefore stopping his limit charge. Also pikmin toss is good to block Cloud's projectile. It may even allow you to punish him right after the pikmin blocked the projectile. Also Olimar has a good tool to punish Cloud performing a dair when in the air trying to land. The pivot grab is amazing for punishing these dairs as well as pivot fsmashes. However offstage Cloud can be dangerous as he has two spikes he can go for, he can throw out his projectile(with limit, his projectile can even mean an early death for Olimar offstage). On the other side, Olimar can also punish Cloud for his upb when he doesn't sweetspot the ledge with something like Down-smash. As Cloud has not the best options out of grabs, shield is a strong option vs Cloud besides blocking his only projectile with pikmin toss. Also as always, be aware of extended hitboxes thanks to attached pikmins on your enemy. Don't get hit by the multihit-fsmash because of extended hitboxes.
Honestly as for now I feel like this match-up is even. Both characters have the tools to gimp the other. Both characters can force their opponent to approach. Cloud is good at juggling and your best bet to get out of the juggles is a well-timed whistle. I don't really see one or the other having a real advantage.

 

[Zard lover Doom Desire]

So I redact my statement about the Bowser match, Olimar may win this now. They just had to nerf the low tiers and not the top tiers...

 

[Kon]

So as I said, I've taken a few things to the lab in order to make reliable statements. It is possible to hit the mechakoopa first and Bowser Jr right afterwards if timed right with one fsmash. The fsmash destroys the mechakoopa and as thought keeps an active hitbox that can still get Bowser Jr out of his side b. In my opinion this almost completely destroys Bowser Jr's neutral vs Olimar giving him a hard time to get anything started. I would be curious to know how Bowser Jr wants to get some percentage on Olimar without these tools.

As I was testing projectile stuff, I did also try some things vs Toon Link again. So fsmash stops bombs no matter which pikmin color you play. fsmash can also first destroy the boomerang and then keep an active hitbox that can still get Tink right afterwards. (same as the stuff with bowser jr) This is also true for the arrow. However in order to destroy the bomb at a distance where the fsmash still can reach Tink, I got almost every time hit by the explosion too, so it was more a trade-situation in the sense that I got hit by the bomb's explosion and Tink got hit by the active fsmash hitbox of the Pikmin. So fsmashing can be useful with any color but purple vs the projectiles while purple side bs also work fine and are safer to punish projectiles.

And last I just checked if the Side B to Down-Smash stuff of Ganondorf still works after these whole getup fixes and yes, it still works vs Olimar if you don't tech the side b.

 

[Blue Banana]

Discussion for the Falco, Samus, and Cloud matchups is now closed. Thanks for all the responses.

is an advantageous matchup.
is tentatively a slightly disadvantageous matchup.
is an even matchup.

Also, thanks to feedback from the Olimar skype group (most of which is covered in Kon's posts), is now classified as an even matchup.

------------------------

Discussion 17 - Magic, Books, and Heavenly Powers

()

Palutena Frame Data
Robin Frame Data
Zelda Frame Data

Spoiler: Old Quotes (Palm tree)

Hey everyone. Just wanted to share a little bit of Olimar tech against Palutena to the community.

If Olimar grabs a character out of a attack with a push back/wind box effect, such as Palutena's reflect, The pikmin will stay in the position at where it grabbed the other character while Olimar is pushed back out of harms way and still able to input any direction to throw in.

Back throws out of this tech seem to be very peculiar since you are sliding farther away from your opponent while still able to back throw them towards you into any aerial option or potentially an up smash or other smash at low percentages.

This is just something cool I found that other characters are unable to do, since their grab hit boxes are connected to the character.

I feel that this Desync could become useful for follow up options against Palutena due to the increased spacing it grants the player. However this tech is very situational and must be baited by throwing pikmin until the palutena player chooses to try to reflect before going in for a close range grab.

Still trying to figure out other ways to recreate this type of grab desync against other characters. Palutena is just the easiest to perform this technique against. I'm sure this might be known but I feel like more research needs to be put into this. Thoughts?

All they really need to do is bait out our smashes then use their respective reflector. Palutena especially can spam the reflector like nothing and her down throw combos are really good for propping us up into the air and dmg as well as her upsmash light thing with its range. Zelda though i agree it would be hard to go in agains't oli since she doesn't have the best of options besides her vanish thing and her nayru's love reflector shenanigans. Keeping these all in mind,they prolly are the best options anyhow from the few times I came across these characters,not counting customs. However with customs,I believe Palutena is a significantly menacing threat with her increased mobility, although I personally have yet to look upon such things yet.

Spoiler: Old Quotes (Robin)

When facing Robin you wanna try to close the distance between you and him as much as possible, Olimar does a tremendous job at out spacing him and can dispel him quickly. If your not so comfortable going in then the Pikmin Toss camping is a fantastic option for baiting him in, as the Pikmin can stop Arc Fire, Thunder, Arc Thunder, and Ell Thunder. It seems weird but I found that the best way to take down a Robin is for you to be in his face stopping him from spouting out projectiles. Don't be too reckless though cause you could get hit with a meaty punish if you leave your self open.

Spoiler: Old Quotes (Zelda)

All they really need to do is bait out our smashes then use their respective reflector. Palutena especially can spam the reflector like nothing and her down throw combos are really good for propping us up into the air and dmg as well as her upsmash light thing with its range. Zelda though i agree it would be hard to go in agains't oli since she doesn't have the best of options besides her vanish thing and her nayru's love reflector shenanigans. Keeping these all in mind,they prolly are the best options anyhow from the few times I came across these characters,not counting customs. However with customs,I believe Palutena is a significantly menacing threat with her increased mobility, although I personally have yet to look upon such things yet.

It's similar to any other character with a reflector. She can't spam it because it's laggy, and Zelda has no way to actually approach Olimar. I don't need to use Smashes to land kills when I have uthrow, bair, and uair.

Discussion will be closed on Friday, February 19.

(there's a hidden music link this time!)

 

[Sky Pirate]

It's been a while for Palutena, so I don't have a whole ton to say about her. ><

-Vs. Palutena-

- She's actually really fast when she runs, so staying grounded or close to the ground is frequently a good idea.
- She has a reflector. It's big, it pushes you back, and it reflects. Makes it hard to space when you can't Fsmash. You have to make them afraid to use it by baiting it and dash grabbing to punish its massive endlag. You can hit with other stuff like Fair if it's early in the move IIRC, but I usually just dash grab. If she starts getting shy about reflecting, you can carefully put some smashes in.
- She can do some shenanigans with her jab, like canceling it and going into something else. Be careful not to reflexively airdodge, as they might try to jab then catch your airdodge with an Usmash.
- She has some stuff out of grabs, too. Dthrow leads into Fair, Uair, etc. depending on percent, and as with her jab, she can just Dthrow and bait an airdodge to Usmash.
- Don't get caught with her Uair. It lasts a while and seems kinda big.

Notes:
- Her dash attack and Bair have those weird shield frames. They're like Bowser's Usmash.




-Vs. Robin-

=LONG RANGE=
- Olimar can outcamp. Pikmin stop the first three versions of Thunder and Arcfire if it hits them. Thoron cuts through just about everything, though.
- Arcthunder can be very, very dangerous. If it hits your shield, Robin can run in, grab to dthrow, and Uair, and her Uair kills SUPER early. Avoid it altogether rather than shielding. If it hits your shield, consider letting your shield down for the final hit (unless you're at super-high percent).
- Also remember that she isn't restricted to Arcthunder/Thoron and may throw out Thunder/Elthunder when you aren't prepared for it.

=CLOSE RANGE=
- Try to stay away from Robin close-range. Her sword attacks linger and have quite a bit of range. Good movement is essential in this matchup.
- Our Fsmash is cool. It can stop projectiles if it hits them, trade with a lot (like falling fair/bair, not always good), and cut through depending on element.
- Elfire doesn't have the stun of Arcthunder, so you can often roll out of it when shielding or UpB/jump out of it if you get caught by it. She can still get follow-ups from it if you don't escape.
- Don't be content to sit in shield all the time. Nosferatu can grab you from the air and can make for huge percentage swings. ><
The amount she heals depends on his/her current damage.
- Latched pikmin can make her sword moves a bit more punishable.
- They might try to Dthrow and charge a smash to catch an airdodge at low percentages.

- Her aerials kill super-early, so avoid her like the plague if she chases you in the air.
- Dash attack is a kill option of hers, too. She runs really slowly, though. Just kinda be aware of it.
- Last hit of jab can kill.
- When she expends her books or sword, they pop out of her and can be picked up for a brief time and thrown as projectiles. They can do a lot of damage and/or kill, so be aware when it happens.
- They might try to run off of platforms and Bair, to catch you chasing them or to stage spike if you're offstage.

Notes:
- Don't forget that s/he has two spikes, Elwind and Dair.



I'm forgetting a lot, I'm sure.

EDIT: Changed all the "his/her" on Robin to "her" to make it less annoying to read.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Ah the Devil has summoned us to his playground to torture us with his earthly slaves...

Lol

Anyway Vs

I haven't really fought too many Olimars as he's kinda rare but if anyone played the matchup in brawl it's roughly the same just a little less of a nightmare for Zelda for this game compared to brawl.

The biggest blessing is Olimars smashes are reflectable so if Zelda gets a good read on a Fsmash and Nayrus it she gets alot of damage payoff. For pikmin throw Zelda can also reflect or she could just attack them cause sometime her big hitboxes like jab and Fsmash can eat pikmin tossed at her.

Olimar is light and kinda floaty but seems like he is still susceptive to Zelda s combos and also light so he doesn't live long if Zelda lands a killing blow.

Phantom is good at cutting down flying pikmin and helping Zelda space out Olimar. He also creates a temporary wall to stop the pikmin assult.

Nayrus is important for Zelda not only for reflecting smashes and sideB but also as an ok coverage move for Zelda.

When up close Zelda generally outreaches Olimar sans pikmin grabs so despite being faster if he doesn't have like blue pikmin and Zelda is spacing well she can contend with him up close on the ground.

Unfortunately for Zelda Olimar is still tiny and hard to hit with Zelda's lack of approach options leaving her to resort to mind games to try and close in on Olimar if he decides to lame her out hard and she doesn't have a lead. And despite her reach Olimar is still fast and can grab her from farther away than she can reach him pikmin dependant. Nayrus can be baited and if she mistimes a nayrus she can end up grabbed, juggled, or with pikmin on her that are hard to get rid off.

Offstage I've never had Olimar attempt to gimp me but he covers the ledge well enough where if she gets there it can be hard for her to get back on. On the flip side Zelda has a great spike and Olimar has no active hitbox while he's flying but with no Pikmin he could fly around Zelda and get back on if she doesn't read his movements well.

Better than last game but still a pain.
-2

 

[StripedNinja]

Ah the Devil has summoned us to his playground to torture us with his earthly slaves...

Lol

Anyway Vs

I haven't really fought too many Olimars as he's kinda rare but if anyone played the matchup in brawl it's roughly the same just a little less of a nightmare for Zelda for this game compared to brawl.

The biggest blessing is Olimars smashes are reflectable so if Zelda gets a good read on a Fsmash and Nayrus it she gets alot of damage payoff. For pikmin throw Zelda can also reflect or she could just attack them cause sometime her big hitboxes like jab and Fsmash can eat pikmin tossed at her.

Olimar is light and kinda floaty but seems like he is still susceptive to Zelda s combos and also light so he doesn't live long if Zelda lands a killing blow.

Phantom is good at cutting down flying pikmin and helping Zelda space out Olimar. He also creates a temporary wall to stop the pikmin assult.

Nayrus is important for Zelda not only for reflecting smashes and sideB but also as an ok coverage move for Zelda.

When up close Zelda generally outreaches Olimar sans pikmin grabs so despite being faster if he doesn't have like blue pikmin and Zelda is spacing well she can contend with him up close on the ground.

Unfortunately for Zelda Olimar is still tiny and hard to hit with Zelda's lack of approach options leaving her to resort to mind games to try and close in on Olimar if he decides to lame her out hard and she doesn't have a lead. And despite her reach Olimar is still fast and can grab her from farther away than she can reach him pikmin dependant. Nayrus can be baited and if she mistimes a nayrus she can end up grabbed, juggled, or with pikmin on her that are hard to get rid off.

Offstage I've never had Olimar attempt to gimp me but he covers the ledge well enough where if she gets there it can be hard for her to get back on. On the flip side Zelda has a great spike and Olimar has no active hitbox while he's flying but with no Pikmin he could fly around Zelda and get back on if she doesn't read his movements well.

Better than last game but still a pain.
-2

Good analysis, just FYI tho it's white pikmin with longer grab range not blue.
I know you don't play Oli so like no big, just clarifying for anyone reading

 

[koken]

Just some quick notes, maybe later I will continue this post.

Robin

Crouching nullify Thoron at every level of charge.
​

Vs Robin, Palutena and Zelda

You can punish his recovery while trying to catch the ledge easily.
If you are risky enough, you can even try an edge trump and gimp.
Be careful at gimping because Zelda and Robin may kill you with his up B.​

 

[Kon]

I didn't know you could crouch under every electric projectile of Robin, thx koken for the information. It's really useful to know.

About Robin:
So first an advice on stages. I would prefer stages with less platforms as Robin likes platforms. Omega and Smashville give you the opportunity to stop Robin's projectile while not being in a dangerous spot. Duck Hunt should be fine too. Platforms are useful for Robin as he can catch you very well with falling upairs on platforms in general.
On pretty flat stages, Olimar is doing pretty good vs Robin in my opinion. As he can block the projectiles with his pikmins, he isn't really forced to approach, so his neutral is pretty good vs Robin. He can just wait until there are situations to punish Robin. Especially catching Robin's landings is doable as Robin can't cover his landing that well. He can go for a fastfall upair, but other than that, he only has a risky option like upb(which brings him into a bad spot afterwards) or performing a dair, which doesn't really cover much below him.

About Palutena:
I found it kinda hard getting a dash grab when Palutena tried to use her reflector as it pushes Olimar back and most of the time I didn't get the grab because of this. In order to get Pikmin latched on Palutena, you have to bait out a reflector. Olimar can juggle Palutena a bit as far as I remember correctly, because dair has some startup lag, but nair can be tricky and also be aware of the counter when going for juggles. Avoid being above Palutena, because as already mentionned her upair is a decent killmove and the move in general is scary when Palutena is right below you. As far as I noticed, Palutena players don't use the reflector in the air that much, which means you may get some pikmin latched on her when she is in the air. Also don't underestimate her upsmash, because her upsmash is huge. Especially if you have to land on a platform, be aware that the upsmash has a huge hitbox you should never challenge. Offstage I never had the feeling that Palutena would be a huge threat.
Sorry but the last good Palutena I played was quite a while ago. Like 2 months ago or so. Therefore I can't think of anything more than this.

About Zelda:
Her reflector has to be respected of course. Think twice when using an fsmash. Most of the time you should opt for Side Bs and bait a reflector to get a grab and get in. Zelda's side b can make it hard to approach, but you can safely destroy the phantom with an fsmash right after you shielded the hitbox. When she sends out the phantom, she'll be so far away that you don't have to worry about reflected fsmashes. Zelda isn't that great at approaching, so when you keep playing patient and just capitalizing on a few openings, it should be enough to perform well in the MU.
There is one thing I'm curious about and I'll probably test it in the next days: Is it possible to crouch under Zelda's fair, nair and bair? Maybe even perform a dtilt without getting hit by her fair/bair/nair? This may be nice to know in order to get other options than pivot grab, side b and (a bit risky because of the reflector) pivot fsmash.
I don't know which stages would be best vs Zelda tbh. BF and Dreamland can be nice to catch landings with Olimar's upair while FD and SV may support more a strong neutral where you only have side bs as main tool in neutral and this may make it easier to bait out a reflector than BF or Dreamland.
These are mostly some thinkings. I've played some Zeldas but they weren't that huge of a threat. However I wouldn't say that they were great Zelda players, so feel free to correct me if you have different opinions or have made different experiences vs Zelda.