Pika's worst matchup

[N64]

So there's actually a decent differing of opinion on this topic. The most common responses are Sheik and ICs, but Marth, Falco, and Mario aren't uncommon either. So I wanna know from you all, what do you think pika's worst matchup is and why.

While it's not my least favorite matchup, that title goes to marth, my vote goes to ICs for worst matchup. Grab = death, and wd dsmash is scary as ****. Every stock seems to be decided by "can i gimp nana before popo kills me".

inc "n64 you're dumb, shiek is so much harder" gooooooooooooo
I want to hear what all of you think though. What character absolutely shuts pika down the most?

 

[Zig-Zag!]

n64 you're dumb, shiek is so much harder

There is a reason why Shiek is harder than IC's.

Shiek is ALWAYS dangerous, whereas the Ice Climbers, as their character flaw, are NOT always dangerous.

Against the IC's, I tend to run around on platforms and jump like crazy until I get a better sense of what they're gonna do. One of the VERY first things I do in the match is an immediate dash grab and backthrow. I am constantly backthrowing the ice climbers around, and quick to tail spike nana. Mind game them into coming for a grab, then downsmash. If the climbers are ever stupid enough to be above you for some reason, its an upair buffet.

This as opposed to shiek, who is ALWAYS dangerous. She will **** you up close, she will **** you at the approach game, and she will **** you far away. All you can really do against her is keep her in the air. and exploit your weird character-ness. There is never a time when fighting a shiek where you go, "now its time for a quick tail spike/upssmash/backthrow." And even if sheik's chaingrab isnt as dangerous as the IC's....its **** close.

The point is...against the IC's, you have a game plan. If there is any game plan against shiek, feel free to forward it to me.

 

[Anther]

In my opinion Marth's easier (on most stages...) than Fox, Falco, IC's, and Sheik... You just have to stay confident... cause hessitation gets you tipped.

Sheik gets easier if you crouch cancel her dash attack and follow it up with some sort of up-air combo or up-smash and play underneath her for a bit for some control of the match...

In terms of feeling shut down, I'd have to say Falco does it the best... but good falco's seem to have certain troubles against Pika anyway.. so I don't wanna say its that bad (Even as helpless as he makes you feel sometimes x_X.)

Overall, I agree with you 64, IC's seem to be the most capable of shutting Pikachu down in my experience.
And the thing that scares me is that after you kill nana, a wavesmash from popo is very likely to kill you at a relatively low percent anyway XD. Main thing Pika has going for itself is that piks is good at separating them and getting rid of nana... and beating up on Popo afterwards.

 

[Lixivium]

The point is...against the IC's, you have a game plan. If there is any game plan against shiek, feel free to forward it to me.

You only say that because you haven't played any good IC's.

 

[Zig-Zag!]

You only say that because you haven't played any good IC's.

I'll tell Trail you don't think he's any good

 

[Tope]

Trail is... decent.

My vote goes for ICies, especially on FD, which is impossible.

 

[Anther]

Trail sandbags vs Pikas >.>

But yeah, IC's have some things to be afraid of vs pika at the same time... You can tell in the way they... ... do ic stuff....
(logs off for the day -_- )

 

[Zig-Zag!]

Trail is decent, yes.

The point is, I would rather take my chances versus a general IC player versus a general Shiek player any day.

 

[Lixivium]

I'll tell Trail you don't think he's any good

Trail's no good; he doesn't even grab.

Speaking of IC's vs. Pikachu, can IC's WD out of shield to (jab) grab Pikachu after an Up-Smash, or is there too much shieldstun?

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

Trail is... decent.

My vote goes for ICies, especially on FD, which is impossible.

u should of money matched me and got ***** at fc lol.... so many kids suck at this game it makes trail laugh .

 

[D. Disciple]

Worst match up for Pika would have to be ICs, Shiek being extremely close.

Zig-zag has some good points on why Shiek is the worst match up for Pika, but I still believe that ICs just utterly **** Pika and then some.

Zig-zag's point of jumping around platforms is a good strat, but if the IC's are smart enough they will catch on where you're going and should expect an uair or what Bluewolf likes to do, wavedash, desynch and have Popo bair and Nana uair. (Did it to me on Yoshi Story, it was weird and I didn't like it.)

However, I see ICs doing a lot more to Pika than Shiek can, with multiple ways of negating Pika's approach, getting them separated can be a hassle too, if it's a good ICs. I can agree with Raptorhawk and Zig-zag of nair-dsmash-uair is effective of separating them, or constantly back throwing them. I do that against ICs but if it's against a good don't expect to get away with that all the time, eventually they will catch on and then bam, you're out of ideas of approaching them again.

Too lazy to finish this rant, might later on in the future.

 

[Nigachu]

I'd say they are both equal because I get ***** by both IC's and Sheik equally. No preference.

 

[cablepuff]

I'd say they are both equal because I get ***** by both IC's and Sheik equally. No preference.

I officially think this is thread winner. Anyways Pika can get out of chain grab by sheik around 30 percent so its not really "kill percentage" or near kill.

 

[Anther]

Psh drunken moment will get back at that latr t.t

 

[-Chad-]

I dislike Fox most of all, following Peach.

 

[Zig-Zag!]

I dislike Fox most of all, following Peach.

Fox? Seriously?

 

[-Chad-]

I don't like fighting Fox's because a very defensive laser campy Fox player forces you to approach, and we all know that Pika isn't too good at that. Fox also has the speed to techchase you fairly easily which will lead to an u-smash or grab, which we all know leads to u-airs and I'm inconsistent about smash DI'ing out of them. Seeing how you get shined to the ground a lot fighting a Fox usually, that situation seems to arise quite a bit.

Yes I know Pika has very good combos on Fox, and can chain grab, but who doesn't have good combos on fastfallers?

Maybe I should specify.. I dislike fighting good and smart Fox players. If they're bad, lemme at em' cause it's almost too easy to combo them.

 

[Zig-Zag!]

I don't like fighting Fox's because a very defensive laser campy Fox player forces you to approach, and we all know that Pika isn't too good at that. Fox also has the speed to techchase you fairly easily which will lead to an u-smash or grab, which we all know leads to u-airs and I'm inconsistent about smash DI'ing out of them. Seeing how you get shined to the ground a lot fighting a Fox usually, that situation seems to arise quite a bit.

Yes I know Pika has very good combos on Fox, and can chain grab, but who doesn't have good combos on fastfallers?

Maybe I should specify.. I dislike fighting good and smart Fox players. If they're bad, lemme at em' cause it's almost too easy to combo them.

Well the way I look at it is...if Im behind against a fox, even a good one, I can still catch up. I mean...I always feel like I have a chance versus space animals. When I play against Dope, Viperboy, cunning, Kish2, Tink, or those guys...I feel like I can win if I play smart enough.

But like...if Im playing Drephen, that's a different story.

 

[quam]

peach is the worst, followed closely by ice climbers and fox

 

[Nigachu]

peach is the worst, followed closely by ice climbers and fox

Quoted for truth. I absolutely can't stand Peach, or Ice Climbers but Fox is a bit easier matchup.

 

[AXE 09]

i think the worst match ups are shiek, IC's, and Mario. i always get pwned by them ='( as far as marth goes, he can be pretty tough, but i found that if you're just patient, they'll eventually try to come after you with an ariel attack. right after their ariel, i always try to go under them with a usmash

with fox and falco, once you get in even 1 hit, then they're usually screwed. they're pretty easy to combo, it's just trying to get a hit on them that's the hard part

 

[vesperview]

Sheik by far!

 

[Anther]

I dun believe in that.

 

[festizzio]

I definitely think sheik is, ice climbers you can break up fairly easily by using dsmash which for some reason is easier to pull off on them. Peach is annoying to fight especially a camping turnip spamming one, but at least there's a chance at winning unlike sheik who chaingrabs you from 0-death every freakin stock. Fox and Falco I actually love playing, I have no idea what it is about fighting them but it just gets me so pumped and excited to play, definitely one of my favorite matchups.

 

[Nigachu]

I definitely think sheik is, ice climbers you can break up fairly easily by using dsmash which for some reason is easier to pull off on them. Peach is annoying to fight especially a camping turnip spamming one, but at least there's a chance at winning unlike sheik who chaingrabs you from 0-death every freakin stock. Fox and Falco I actually love playing, I have no idea what it is about fighting them but it just gets me so pumped and excited to play, definitely one of my favorite matchups.

Im the same way with Fox and Falco players. Probably because I can handle them better than a Peach. Man I really hate her. As for sheik.... dash attack+ fair= KO, and in some cases an arwing gunshot. haha. That tactic got me very familiar with shield grabbing. Back throw off the edge -> tail spike -> fsmash ledgeguard.

 

[festizzio]

About Pika vs. Fox, when they're coming back with the firefox from below the stage, surprisingly, hitting them with pika's a attack on the ground kills them some of the time. I've done it by accident a ridiculous amount of times and they just fall right down like I spiked them with falco's dair or something.

 

[Nigachu]

Aren't you awarded a wimpy KO for doing that?

 

[festizzio]

Yeah but it's really funny.

 

[Knyaguy]

For me Samus!

+ = :sniper:

( Samus is the sniper)

 

[McFly]

I dislike Fox most of all, following Peach.

I'm surprised you say Peach. I use Falco and Pika quite regularly and I pick Pika specifically to fight against Peach.

 

[-Chad-]

If the Peach likes to CC, good luck =x everything you do will get d-smashed. What approaches does Pika have vs that? N-air gets CC'd, so does f-air, and jolts are easily neutralized. U-air maybe, but I doubt it'd work too well.


Peach also has very good aerials that out prioritize Pika's and she can approach Pika easily with float canceled aerials that lead to more d-smash, and Pika's shield can't handle a d-smash since it's so small you'll usually take hits as the d-smash eats your shield away.

Sure she dies easy from a u-smash, but a good Peach won't give you those opportunities often..

Maybe I'm just wierd =x

 

[festizzio]

I agree with you Chad! :O CC-ing Peaches are the worst!

 

[Tope]

Just Dsmash her dsmash.


You can hit with the tip of your uair forward to pop her up.


It's mostly a hit and run game, kinda like sheik.

 

[N64]

Good peaches are tough, but there are many matches I like less than peach. Jolt moves at most peach's float height, and if the peaches start floating above that it makes it easier to sneak in a usmash below her. Yeah turnips beat jolt, but it's still nice to have. If she starts CCing a lot, dair. Dair is your friend against all CC-happy characters. Don't shffl it, just short hop it and glide through her, you want to hit with the aerial hit and not the ground hit. You can also hit with the end of uair and try to pop her behind you.

If she's floating a lot, there's not a whole lot you can do. Wd back -> fsmash, try ftilts/dtilts, or jolt spam seem to be the best options. I've also played around a little bit with quick attacking through her just above the ground to kill the float and disorient her, and it's seemingly difficult to punish if you position right, but it's meh damage and probably too situational to really mean much, more of a mindgame or just bait.

Usmash kills, but most peaches will be playing entirely to avoid it. Uair spike is good if you can position it, peach's vertical recovery is kinda lacking. You'll be surprised how many uair->ledgehog kills you can get in a match.

 

[Incronaut]

I know Pika vs Fox is pretty fair... until fox starts uthrow + uair left and right. pika dies at like 90% =(

I'd say sheik is still worse, but I hate foxes -.-

 

[toasty]

I'm surprised you say Peach. I use Falco and Pika quite regularly and I pick Pika specifically to fight against Peach.

I suppose some are better at the matchup than others [whether you're talking about the Peach or Pika player.] Cow is a great Peach player but he's really good at this matchup and he knows my Pika really well and I've only gotten him to one stock one time and that was incredibly difficult...The_Doug, however, I believe is considered to have a better Peach. But getting The_Doug to one stock was relatively easier for me...

Falco's still a ***** for me to fight, haven't worked at that matchup hard enough. I guess the only Falco's I have a lot of trouble with are the SHL-happy ones who are actually GOOD at camping/approaching with lasers.

Sheik will always be my least favorite matchup. The match can get turned around so easily in Sheik's favor.

Against pro Marth's [and I suppose this is directed at N64, Tope, ZigZag, or anyone else who's had success against pro Marths...oh and for frame of reference, I'm considering Ether a pro Marth] how crucial are grabs to your game? I mean yeah bthrow->tailspike is great, but grabbing a Marth isn't exactly easy. Also: how much do you employ triangle jumping? or at least airdodging toward their feet [since, from my experience, it's ridiculously difficult to land aerials on Marths of this level...maybe it's just Ether and he's really good at the Pika matchup?] hmmm...I'll record a vid soon and then I guess it'd be easier for you guys to help me. Any other ideas on Marths of that level?

 

[technomancer]

Marth is pretty gay, you really have to understand what kinda gay he's working at to know how to beat him. There are ways around the Fair campy game. A couple of tricks are mastering WD out of shield to an immediate dash away to escape pressure and return immediately to begin an offensive, or even just going for a bait and hoping the Marth throws something laggy at you like a grab or fsmash. Nothing Pika specific. Also understand that Marth has good dash speed and good come-out times on alot of attacks but is definately not the fastest character that you can face, so playing as fast as you possibly can is important to give you the edge.

 

[Anther]

omg I went to bed at 10pm and I'm up at 5 in the morning and it's so effing amazing what the heck. Don't have class for 5 hours I'm on the top of the world!!
...
What technomancer says is true.
Marth is a mindgame. First of all, you don't want to face a Marth that just thinks he pwnz Pikachu (impossible btw). He has to get that doubt in his mind and you have to go into this matchup pretty confident o_O. Having an amazing gimp the first stock or showing that you can get past his range helps a lot, and not getting tippered immediately after that gimp >.>.

As a general rule, if he's dash dancing a lot I leave him alone, cause it's very easy to watch pika and dash back into anything with him. It's better to throw a couple jolts in that situation, or just wait for him to get bored. and when approaching, force yourself to mix up the timings of your aerials... cause marth has quite a few vulnerable points... and it seems for some reason that they have trouble dealing with that.. ( I just scratched the crap out of myself with my fingernail what the heck...). And avoid easy tippers plz, don't camp on top of a platform XD.

And I think as a good rule with pika, always have more patience than your opponent.... even if you have to pretend x.x.

 

[BoneMachine]

So there's actually a decent differing of opinion on this topic. The most common responses are Sheik and ICs, but Marth, Falco, and Mario aren't uncommon either. So I wanna know from you all, what do you think pika's worst matchup is and why.

While it's not my least favorite matchup, that title goes to marth, my vote goes to ICs for worst matchup. Grab = death, and wd dsmash is scary as ****. Every stock seems to be decided by "can i gimp nana before popo kills me".

inc "n64 you're dumb, shiek is so much harder" gooooooooooooo
I want to hear what all of you think though. What character absolutely shuts pika down the most?

I know several people that play much better after Nana is dead...

And Shiek is a foil to almost any character... that's why n00bs play as her so much, she's cheap and hard to keep track of.

 

[Dogysamich]

But like...if Im playing Drephen, that's a different story.

that's because drephen can beat 90% of the melee community using 3 moves.