Q&A Pikachu Q&A Thread (Ask a Quick Question, Get a Quick Answer)

[Soul.]

Nah I was just wondering is all. BAir didn't get nerfed. You can still drag down.

 

[CarbuncleHero]

Hey, something interesting! Pikachu's FF fair> f/d tilt is now registered as a true combo. I noticed this in training and decided to see why that changed...

Pikachu's AC fair now has 2 frames of landing lag less. It went from 11 to 9, they actually decided to buff pikachu again lol!

You can test 1.04 and 1.05 yourselves and see. IMO the frames buff is a really good buff, it won't change how pika is played but the reliably of ff fair> ftilt (which deals at around 12-16 dmg) and further shield safety is so good!
But i'm biased because most of my practicing and issues were trying to make the most of fair, and this buff happens after I figure out how to use FF fair reliably...

the ending frames for ff fair, bair, uair, and nair in 1.04 are f11,18, 15, and 14 respectively if anyone wants to test for more changes. I'll edit if I find a change.
edit: all of pikachu's aerials LL was shortened! Wow, i'm excited. two techniques I was practicing just got buffed! I'll get the numbers real soon. If someone else would like to verify this...
-------
EDIT: Pikachu's new aerial landing animation frames are as follows:
Nair:f1-12, act on frame 13
Fair:f1-8, 9
Bair:f1-15, 16
Uair:f1-12, 13

Each move has 2 frames less landing lag, excluding uair which has 1 frame less. The 1.04 data for uair could have been an error on my part though, I tested these very carefully however. I didn't test dair mostly because I thought it was irrelevant in 1.04 so someone else will have to test that one. edit: it might 2 be frames less, my initial notes are unclear on which frame you act...

 

[Tagxy]

Pikachu could always FF Fair > dtilt/grab/jab/dash attack/reverse utilt (reverse utilt maybe too hard). I made a post about it a week ago in the character competitive impressions so its kinda new unless someone already knew about it, the key was it had to be fast falled at some point (best near the end). He can also FF fair > usmash under the right conditions.

I guess its good that the landing lag on his aerials is better but for some reason im skeptical, i feel either there was a mistake before on the frame data at some point or theres something up now.

Good stuff regardless

 

[CarbuncleHero]

Pikachu could always FF Fair > dtilt/grab/jab/dash attack/reverse utilt (reverse utilt maybe too hard). I made a post about it a week ago in the character competitive impressions, the key was it had to be fast falled. He can also FF fair > usmash under the right conditions.

I guess its good that the landing lag on his aerials is better but for some reason im skeptical, i feel either there was a mistake before on the frame data at some point or theres something up now.

I know, I've done it plenty, but now the game registers it as a true combo. Fair will pop the characters up unless you land on one of the frames that spike. I often had cpu's shield FF fairs into an attack, now landing on the ground is guaranteed to link into dtilt, and ftilt is guaranteed for both. I said before that it won't have any big impact probably, it's just guaranteed now, which is nice. FF fair on shield is actually better now which is more important than tilts.

By that do you mean that I made the mistake? I'm pretty sure i didn't any huge mistake, the frames are less for sure. But this can be checked...

 

[Tagxy]

I know, I've done it plenty, but now the game registers it as a true combo. Fair will pop the characters up unless you land on one of the frames that spike. I often had cpu's shield FF fairs into an attack, now landing on the ground is guaranteed to link into dtilt, and ftilt is guaranteed for both. I said before that it won't have any big impact probably, it's just guaranteed now, which is nice. FF fair on shield is actually better now which is more important than tilts.

By that do you mean that I made the mistake? I'm pretty sure i didn't any huge mistake, the frames are less for sure. But this can be checked...

I meant either the ones tested now, or perhaps they weren't correct in the initial version or werent updated after the last patch. If any of those 3 are wrong itd be off, although they could all be right too.

Ive been able to register FF fair into dtilt and dash attack as a true combo before, I tested it using slow speed and buffering the attacks so Im sure it was right. Usually I hit the opponent first, then fast fall. Also even if theyre popped into the air, they usually dont have enough time to do anything until they land which is why sometimes you can usmash them, but all the other follow-ups should work too.

 

[CarbuncleHero]

I meant either the ones tested now, or perhaps they weren't correct in the initial version or werent updated after the last patch. If any of those 3 are wrong itd be off, although they could all be right too.

Ive been able to register FF fair into dtilt and dash attack as a true combo before, I tested it using slow speed and buffering the attacks so Im sure it was right. Usually I hit the opponent first, then fast fall. Also even if theyre popped into the air, they usually dont have enough time to do anything until they land which is why sometimes you can usmash them, but all the other follow-ups should work too.

That's interesting.
I've done it that way too, and i never noticed it register as a combo. But I never thought to check under slow speed, mostly because I never needed too. It's certainly noticeable now. But for some reason I'm having trouble getting reverse utilt to register, which should be possible. I haven't figured out how to get it to come out in 1/4 speed yet, but i can do it in normal speed easily and it is never counted as a true combo.

 

[redfeatherraven]

Interrupt you two to ask the most ******** question you'll ever hear?

When you talk about the game registering as a "true combo," what do you mean? I think my definition differs, and I'm having trouble following the discussion.

 

[Tagxy]

Theres a combo counter in training mode, but some things register as a combo that arent and somethings dont register that are. Its a good way to judge though what works as a combo.

 

[Tagxy]

Relevant double post.

@ C CarbuncleHero
I just noticed that you tested the old and new version together right? I thought you were using data for the old one. Interesting. By the way is this just the 3ds version?

 

[CarbuncleHero]

Relevant double post.

@ C CarbuncleHero
I just noticed that you tested the old and new version together right? I thought you were using data for the old one. Interesting. By the way is this just the 3ds version?

I tested the old version earlier when I was testing out SH options. I just tested 1.05 at the time of the first post.
This is the 3ds version, did the wii u get an update yet?

 

[Tagxy]

I tested the old version earlier when I was testing out SH options. I just tested 1.05 at the time of the first post.
This is the 3ds version, did the wii u get an update yet?

Im just confirming that the 3ds and wii u version are different.

 

[CarbuncleHero]

Im just confirming that the 3ds and wii u version are different.

Ah, okay.
It seems that the frames are actually 2 frames less not 3, dsmash isn't a true combo either. My notes are unclear on when you can act for the 1.04 data. I'll fix this in my posts. If you want to check this you can, as I am pretty prone to mistakes.

 

[Tagxy]

Its cool I dont know how to frame test, Ill just wait for more info.

 

[redfeatherraven]

Actually, while we're on the subject, frame testing is another subject I was curious on...perhaps overly ambitiously so, but still.

Any resources on how I might learn?

 

[Hoenn]

Frame testing is hard, that's why I leave it to people that have the dedication to do it... Props to anyone that actually counts frames, you are super legit

The only time I have ever Done frame testing in this game was to test how fast shield comes out... It comes out frame 1... Easiest frame test ever.... My only frame test ever... That stuff is hard LOL

 

[CarbuncleHero]

Actually, while we're on the subject, frame testing is another subject I was curious on...perhaps overly ambitiously so, but still.

Any resources on how I might learn?

I'm no pro. Which is why I need someone who is to make sure this is correct.
What I do is use 1/4 hold L speed on mute city. I swipe my hand on the L button really quickly, and that gives one frame. If the background doesn't move that means I pressed too lightly and I restart (just in case.) Testing for things like invincibility I use bumpers and the galaga item, but I don't know what others use.
Lol @ Hoenn

 

[Hoenn]

You can also record 60fps footage and play it frame by frame to get more consistent results
And you can use pause buffering to compare frame data, Like, To test how fast shield comes out, I plugged in 3 controllers, and used pause buffering to buffer a shield and a frame 1 move. The frame 1 move was blocked

 

[Ussi]

So I have the worst habit of air dodging into the ground... how long did it take for you guys to break it? (mainly those guys who transfered from brawl..) Its been 2 days and I keep doing T_T I seriously lose too many games to this.

 

[Angiance]

@ Ussi
Each time you do it, acknowledge it and tell yourself to not do it. You'll probably fix this habit within a few hours of straight playing

 

[Soul.]

Is the landing lag reduction confirmed or just speculation?

 

[Dark_Ky]

is Pikachu really top 5?

http://www.eventhubs.com/images/201...ins-why-his-super-smash-bros-wii-u-tier-list/

I have heard this from other topplayers like Zero too. what makes him so good or what makes other people that he is so great?
I dunno much about him so I would like to know why he is rated so high.

 

[CarbuncleHero]

Is the landing lag reduction confirmed or just speculation?

Not confirmed yet. I tested it, but no one else has so don't take it as an absolute fact.

 

[Soul.]

is Pikachu really top 5?

http://www.eventhubs.com/images/201...ins-why-his-super-smash-bros-wii-u-tier-list/

I have heard this from other topplayers like Zero too. what makes him so good or what makes other people that he is so great?
I dunno much about him so I would like to know why he is rated so high.

Small target, can combo, Quick Attack, has projectiles, can edgeguard, can rack up damage easily and has the tools to beat top tier characters.
Only downsides Pikachu has are its light weight and its reliance on usmash, up throw to Thunder and jab locks to fsmash / Heavy Skull Bash (with customs) to KO. Combos also depend on DI.

Not confirmed yet. I tested it, but no one else has so don't take it as an absolute fact.

oh no I'm not taking it as a fact. I was wondering.

 

[Hoenn]

I think pikachu is the 2nd best in the game

@ Ussi If you are getting punished for air dodging, try to get better at landing in general. The best way to get rid of bad habits is to develop good habits to replace them.
I have had a really bad air dodge habit too, so I focus on evading my opponent completely so that I don't have to air dodge at all
Pikachu has tons of landing tools and IMO is the hardest character to juggle, especially because any small move can commit hard enough for pikachu to turn the tables with 1 quick attack and put them in a bad position

90% of the time you are better off jumping away to be honest

 

[「Ocean」]

I've gotten two thunders in a row in the middle of the stage before, is that common? It was on For Glory, and i think the other guy hit me in the beginning of the thunder animation

 

[Pikachutobal]

I think Pikachu is one of the best characters in the game, as Top 5 because Pikachu has a versatile arsenal for every situation
But I do not think it's the best, being a light character and without extensive ability to kill in ground
Nevertheless, pikachu is a complicated enemy to defeat

 

[American JEDI]

After being a previous Fox and then Meta Knight main, I can really appreciate Pikachu's speedy and combo-heavy play style:

SPEED:
Pikachu is so quick (I LOOOOOVVVE his QA). He is truly fast, and after familiarizing yourself with his moves, Pikachu can be very, very difficult to keep up with. Much like Fox was back in Melee. As I previously mentioned, I absolutely love taking full advantage of his QA. I'm a firm believer that--besides his main recovery option--QA should be used as Pikachu's main form of transportation (moving around the stage). One should abuse QA: It's Pikachu's fastest moving option, It's amazingly accurate (pin-point location landing) once mastered, great for mind-games ("where's that Pika going next!?"), it a phenomenal approach option and a wonderful combo starter when you collide with an unsuspecting opponent (eventually conditioning them to shield often, which leads to other beneficial situations... I MEAN!!! there's just limitless uses for QA (Aaaaaaaahhhhh!!!! :-D)... Anyway, you get the jist **satisfied sigh, yet still jumpy**

COMBOS:
I'm not gonna go over combos specifically (plus the boards are littered with them, and I'm just expressing my excitement), but Pikachu is a combo KING! Meta Knight was known for his easy, obvious combo setups in Brawl (and SSB4 too, just not as good), but Pikachu is no slouch and should not be overlooked in the slightest. Pikachu has great combo starters and and lots of high-priority (low lag) options too. Use them often!! : Nair, Fair, Dair, Bair (Yep, all his airials, easy on the dair tho, slightly more compromising), U-tilt, D-tilt.. all the tilts (shoot)! I'm telling ya'. He's a machine! Specials are also great! All his moves are good and most of them are great for combos. Need I mention Pikachu can tech-chase like a Boss!

I'm just saying... Pikachu is so good in Sm4sh!
Master him and partake in the glorious benefits!

 

[American JEDI]

I think Pikachu is one of the best characters in the game, as Top 5 because Pikachu has a versatile arsenal for every situation
But I do not think it's the best, being a light character and without extensive ability to kill in ground
Nevertheless, pikachu is a complicated enemy to defeat

Yes, Very complicated! Especially when pushed to his limits. He can be sooo tricky and hard to keep up with.

And I feel you... but remember. You have keep the game balanced. And with someone as combo-heavy as Pikachu, giving him more "easy" kill options would be--frankly--unfair and unbalanced. Pikachu mains will more than often need to work for kills by building damage with combos and then finishing the job with well placed kill moves. Gimps are always a viable option (Pikachu lends itself to good gimping opportunities). At high-enough percentages, even tilts can kill when used near stage edges. But I also believe that Pikachu's main kill move (Up-smash) is one of the best in the game (often compared to Fox's. It's fast with low start and end lag. Other good options: side-smash, charged side-B (as a good punish), down-B....
Though, like I said. Work for a kill.

 

[Pikachutobal]

Another thing that plays in favor of Pikachu
It is that any attack (Ftilt, Utilt, Dtilt or Grab) it serves to make combo and eliminate any enemy advantage over you
At any time, any mistake of the enemy, Pikachu can make a spectacular comeback
and that's what I like about this cute pokemon

 

[American JEDI]

Here's a very common approach I use as Pikachu (and one that's super annoying for opponents lol): ...

• Run (towards opponent) >>
• Jump (towards opponent) >>
• Use "neutral B" (thunder jolt) midair >>
• Once landing, chase the thunder jolt (as closely behind it as possible) as it moves along the ground >>
• Then... (1) if opponent blocks the jolt, use "grab"; (2) if opponent jumps over the jolt, use "N-air", "F-air" or "U-air"; (3) if opponent gets hit by jolt, use "dash attack" or "grab" or...

... Well, there's plenty of options at this point (after opponent getting hit by jolt) tbh.

Enjoy!

 

[M15t3R E]

Here's a very common approach I use as Pikachu (and one that's super annoying for opponents lol): ...

• Run (towards opponent) >>
• Jump (towards opponent) >>
• Use "neutral B" (thunder jolt) midair >>
• Once landing, chase the thunder jolt (as closely behind it as possible) as it moves along the ground >>
• Then... (1) if opponent blocks the jolt, use "grab"; (2) if opponent jumps over the jolt, use "N-air", "F-air" or "U-air"; (3) if opponent gets hit by jolt, use "dash attack" or "grab" or...

... Well, there's plenty of options at this point (after opponent getting hit by jolt) tbh.
Enjoy!

This has been my favorite way to approach since Brawl's inception. Just don't use it every time.

 

[redfeatherraven]

I know at least one needle-happy Sheik that despises this approach.

I feel like anyone who camps fears this, but I do have concerns about its use in close quarters. How much distance would you be looking at, minimally, to be sure it's a safe approach?

 

[M15t3R E]

I know at least one needle-happy Sheik that despises this approach.

I feel like anyone who camps fears this, but I do have concerns about its use in close quarters. How much distance would you be looking at, minimally, to be sure it's a safe approach?

Mid range to long range. If the opponent is aggressive on their own, or likes to remain close to you before pouncing then you're better off using a SH approach.

 

[CarbuncleHero]

Sorry for bringing this up again, just a small update to the lag thing.
I tested the aerial landing lag of ver. 1.0, since i don't know how to revert back to ver. 1.04. and retested 1.05 and additionally tested default Quick Attack and airdodge for both.
Here is the frame data for both 1.0 and 1.05:

ver. 1.0
Nair:1-16, act on frame 17
Fair:1-10, 11
Bair:1-18, 19
Uair:1-16, 12
(i skipped dair again...)
QA:1-10, 11
AD: 1-14,15

ver. 1.05 (retested no change from my prev. test)
Nair: 1-12, act on frame 13
Fair: 1-8, 9
Bair:1-15, 16
Uair:1-12, 13
(No dair)
QA: 1-8, 9
AD: 1-11, 12

A few things to take note of: I made a few mistakes in the 1.04 data, but the 1.01 is more accurate and I made it clear when pikachu can move. QA loses lag, as well as landing airdodge in the update! Quick attack's ending lag is the lag after the attack animation stops and the smoke appears, the actual lag is ~8 frames more. I only tested these moves, so if any other moves are shorter I wouldn't know. Keep in mind that I am new to testing frames, so there are probably mistakes here; I had honest trouble with 1.0's bair, i don't know why. But pika obviously some loses landing lag, so for now this is about the amount that pika loses.

 

[M15t3R E]

Sorry for bringing this up again, just a small update to the lag thing.
I tested the aerial landing lag of ver. 1.0, since i don't know how to revert back to ver. 1.04. and retested 1.05 and additionally tested default Quick Attack and airdodge for both.
Here is the frame data for both 1.0 and 1.05:

ver. 1.0
Nair:1-16, act on frame 17
Fair:1-10, 11
Bair:1-18, 19
Uair:1-16, 12
(i skipped dair again...)
QA:1-10, 11
AD: 1-14,15

ver. 1.05 (retested no change from my prev. test)
Nair: 1-12, act on frame 13
Fair: 1-8, 9
Bair:1-15, 16
Uair:1-12, 13
(No dair)
QA: 1-8, 9
AD: 1-11, 12

A few things to take note of: I made a few mistakes in the 1.04 data, but the 1.01 is more accurate and I made it clear when pikachu can move. QA loses lag, as well as landing airdodge in the update! Quick attack's ending lag is the lag after the attack animation stops and the smoke appears, the actual lag is ~8 frames more. I only tested these moves, so if any other moves are shorter I wouldn't know. Keep in mind that I am new to testing frames, so there are probably mistakes here; I had honest trouble with 1.0's bair, i don't know why. But pika obviously some loses landing lag, so for now this is about the amount that pika loses.

Pikachu's QA loses lag?
As if it wasn't good enough. It is actually plenty fast enough to QA through an opponent, turn around and grab them.

 

[CarbuncleHero]

Haha I don't know why they would keep buffing pikachu, but I could get used to a buff every update.

 

[American JEDI]

Omg!!!! As if QA wasn't already a great move! They're loving on Pikachu this time around.

 

[tebrowser]

Hi, dumb question, I can't seem to use pikachu's down b as a recovery option, for some reason, I seem to drop a lot faster than esam when he does it, what am I doing wrong? Thanks for your responses.

 

[M15t3R E]

Hi, dumb question, I can't seem to use pikachu's down b as a recovery option, for some reason, I seem to drop a lot faster than esam when he does it, what am I doing wrong? Thanks for your responses.

Are you jumping straight up immediately before hitting down+b? If not, you'll just fast fall to your death.

 

[tebrowser]

Are you jumping straight up immediately before hitting down+b? If not, you'll just fast fall to your death.

I think I was waiting a bit too late, thanks for clearing that up.