Q&A Pikachu Q&A Thread (Ask a Quick Question, Get a Quick Answer)

[Angiance]

I still like D.Throw better for the simple fact that I literally know EXACTLY where they will be-plus, once the percent reaches about 130 or so, even with maximum DI away, you can dash all the way under them and Thunder-they *cannot* escape it because the hitstun is too great

From about 130%

 

[Underhill]

I dunno, I still feel better about D.Throw because at the very least I know EXACTLY where they will go

Underhill
Samus is SUPER VULNERABILE to F.Air because of how she is a giant-but the projectiles shouldn't be an issue as long as you don't FEAR them-the very moment you start to fear them she has, essentially, won the match

Thank you for the advice, but that only slove half of my problem. Her projectiles, z-airs, SH aerials, and charge shots end up forcing me to shield and to respect her game which instead, I tried to get a read off of her landings and aerials. Unfortunately, I keep getting baited and couldn't even read her charge shots because she can release it at anytime. Even as Pikachu, appoarching Samus was a pain for me which end up shutting down my offensive and forces me to be defensive, looking for reads, and shielding her projectiles, but not for me to get shield breaked on because its not happening XD You're right about the fear part which I'll try to work on that alittle, but if you have any more information, then I'll appreciate it.

 

[Angiance]

Underhill

You CANNOT allow her to have her way-you need to be aggressive. She stand absolutely no chance against an aggressor Pikachu​

 

[Underhill]

Underhill

You CANNOT allow her to have her way-you need to be aggressive. She stand absolutely no chance against an aggressor Pikachu​

Ok, I'll try; Thanks.

 

[iVoltage]

Uthrow is better because it's faster making it harder to react to with DI and it has less recovery which makes it less likely they'll dodge a guarantee thunder follow up.

And bair can be used the same way as nair as a follow up after uairs. They both have similar damage, knockback, and speed. There isn't much of a difference between them as a finsher except you can't use bair near the ground because you won't get all the hits. I guess if you don't want to stale one then use the other. But which move is better to keep fresh?

I Would say keep bair fresh since it kills off the side blastzone.

 

[phili]

But If they DI forward it's pretty much a lost cause though. If it ends up that up throw thunder is guaranteed with whatever DI and one masters it, I think that up throw will be the better option.

ESAM seems to be able to consistently hit uthrow > thunder even when the opponent DI's, making me think that it is guaranteed, regardless of DI. It could be that his opponents aren't air dodging because they think they're safe if they DI the throw though. I can never get this to work for myself though.

I also agree with Pikabunz . Uthrow is a faster animation than dthrow, making it less likely for your opponent to react and DI uthrow than dthrow. Plus anyone who knows the pikachu matchup will know not to DI behind pikachu at higher percents because thats the only way to get hit by dthrow > thunder, and fthrow won't kill you even if you DI away at the ledge

 

[Underhill]

ESAM seems to be able to consistently hit uthrow > thunder even when the opponent DI's, making me think that it is guaranteed, regardless of DI. It could be that his opponents aren't air dodging because they think they're safe if they DI the throw though. I can never get this to work for myself though.

I also agree with Pikabunz . Uthrow is a faster animation than dthrow, making it less likely for your opponent to react and DI uthrow than dthrow. Plus anyone who knows the pikachu matchup will know not to DI behind pikachu at higher percents because thats the only way to get hit by dthrow > thunder, and fthrow won't kill you even if you DI away at the ledge

I can't get it to work, either. I know its not guaranteed, but the up throw to thunder doesn't seem to work for me on good players because they keep di away, far enough out of the thunder's range to hit the opponent. Esam is doing it well and even way better than me, trying to connect it. Even at 90%, depending on the character, I still can't catch them with it, even though I read the air dodge.

 

[Soul.]

On the subject of NAir and BAir, I would keep NAir fresh instead of BAir but that's just me. At around 140% NAir can kill (I need to check); I would just keep BAir fresh if I were to stage spike someone. Even then I would have used it as a combo finisher sooo....

 

[Angiance]

The thing about D.Throw > Thunder is that you have a much better idea of where they will go since they do not have the option to DI behind us like they do with U.Throw, plus the hitstun is greater with D.Throw and you can actually KO them off the top if they airdodge the cloud because they'll still get hit by the lighting bolt.

N.Air is our second form of attack and allows us to be ridiculously aggressive, so there is absolutely no reason to be worried about keeping it fresh, trust me.

B.Air can KO offstage really well actually, it's horizontal knockback is higher than all of our other aerials I believe.

 

[iVoltage]

On the subject of NAir and BAir, I would keep NAir fresh instead of BAir but that's just me. At around 140% NAir can kill (I need to check); I would just keep BAir fresh if I were to stage spike someone. Even then I would have used it as a combo finisher sooo....

Im telling you bair is a better horizontal killer than nair, plus nair is best used in combos and as an oos option.

 

[Angiance]

N.Air is the thing that gives the ability to be horrifyingly aggressive in the neutral

 

[Soul.]

Im telling you bair is a better horizontal killer than nair, plus nair is best used in combos and as an oos option.

I know the bolded part already; when exactly does BAir KO?

 

[iVoltage]

I know the bolded part already; when exactly does BAir KO?

Im not sure exact percents but around 100 it can kill if you position the last hit towards the blastzone. Thats done by simply moving the stick toward the stage while the move hits.

 

[Ritronaut]

ESAM seems to be able to consistently hit uthrow > thunder even when the opponent DI's, making me think that it is guaranteed, regardless of DI. It could be that his opponents aren't air dodging because they think they're safe if they DI the throw though. I can never get this to work for myself though.

read the context again

 

[Angiance]

I still like D.Throw > Thunder better, I mean-c'mon you all; with U.Throw the opponent has the ability to DI behind you, while D.Throw only allows the opponent to DI in one direction...plus, D.Throw has higher hitstun so you can actually MAKE something off of it even without the cloud connecting. If you D.Throw them and you aimed for the lightning bolt rather than the cloud, the lighting bolt's hitbox actually lasts longer than the airdodge, so it's actually a very good followup after D.Throw.

On the other hand, if the opponent applies maximum DI they just wind up getting placed in the perfect position to get hit by the cloud-and even if they don't get hit they wind up putting themself in a horrible position since they'll be so close to the edge and still in the air.

With U.Throw, they are put up very high and the only realistic followup is the cloud of Thunder; with D.Throw, they aren't put up as high and if they try to DI away they are put low so we can actually do something afterwards, plus we can possibly trick them into DIing incorrectly by doing a pivot grab and then D.Throwing

 

[Ritronaut]

I still like D.Throw > Thunder better, I mean-c'mon you all; with U.Throw the opponent has the ability to DI behind you, while D.Throw only allows the opponent to DI in one direction...plus, D.Throw has higher hitstun so you can actually MAKE something off of it even without the cloud connecting. If you D.Throw them and you aimed for the lightning bolt rather than the cloud, the lighting bolt's hitbox actually lasts longer than the airdodge, so it's actually a very good followup after D.Throw.

On the other hand, if the opponent applies maximum DI they just wind up getting placed in the perfect position to get hit by the cloud-and even if they don't get hit they wind up putting themself in a horrible position since they'll be so close to the edge and still in the air.

With U.Throw, they are put up very high and the only realistic followup is the cloud of Thunder; with D.Throw, they aren't put up as high and if they try to DI away they are put low so we can actually do something afterwards, plus we can possibly trick them into DIing incorrectly by doing a pivot grab and then D.Throwing

I'm like 99% sure that no followup is guaranteed if they DI in front of you, since down throw already throws them forward, DI-ing forward brings them extra forward. I think mastering up throw, reading DI, then down B is much more efficient. The thunder cloud hitbox that hits into your blue thunder does a lot more damage than just the lightning rod. Down throw is a great mixup though, if they DI behind you expecting an upthrow, you'll get it. I think in a year, Pikachus will master the up throw and reading the DI, and we'll always get a lot of damage from it.

On a related and probably more controversial note, does anyone else think this kill confirm is not THAT good? It only kills when you have a lot of rage. If you have no rage and they DI to the farther blast zone, it never kills for me. And when it would kill for sure, at like 140% they go too high for me to hit it. If they DI, I'm pretty sure double jump thunder doesn't go high enough, and if you do wait for the jump to go higher, it's too slow. This is especially true on battlefield with the platforms and big blastzones

 

[Lomogoto]

On a related and probably more controversial note, does anyone else think this kill confirm is not THAT good? It only kills when you have a lot of rage. If you have no rage and they DI to the farther blast zone, it never kills for me. And when it would kill for sure, at like 140% they go too high for me to hit it. If they DI, I'm pretty sure double jump thunder doesn't go high enough, and if you do wait for the jump to go higher, it's too slow. This is especially true on battlefield with the platforms and big blastzones

I agree that it is pretty bad in comparison to others (though i will take what i can get!). I think the DI toward the other blast zone is when down throw would come in because, if i remember correctly, DI backwards on down throw thinder will still send them forward.

 

[Angiance]

You see, the lightning bolt KOs them

If Pikachu had any more KO power he'd be too good of a character-I mean, have you seen how freaking hard a sweetspotted F.Smash hits?

The only thing I wish Pikachu got an upgrade with would be way less landing lag on U.Air and N.Air, like there is no reason for them to have such ridiculous landing lag-only thing them having low landing lag would do is give us a much better combo game

 

[Pikabunz]

Dthrow doesn't have more hitstun than Uthrow. They're actually about the same, but Uthrow has a slightly higher frame advantage since it ends earlier after the throw. Also, if you think Uthrow sends them too high for thunder to hit, then you can double jump thunder. This is much faster than chasing someone who DI'd away from your Dthrow and thundering. If you believe dthrow to thunder works better for you then keep doing it.

 

[Angiance]

Trust me: I will~

 

[Ritronaut]

I agree that it is pretty bad in comparison to others (though i will take what i can get!). I think the DI toward the other blast zone is when down throw would come in because, if i remember correctly, DI backwards on down throw thinder will still send them forward.

Even if they get hit by the cloud, as they're being spiked they can DI towards the blastzone they want to.

 

[Pikabunz]

Even if they get hit by the cloud, as they're being spiked they can DI towards the blastzone they want to.

You can actually prevent them from DI'ing behind you. You just have to jump slightly back and thunder. No one ever does this though.

 

[Soul.]

I never really thought the kill confirm we have was that good to begin with; unless the devs gave uthrow more hitstun in a future patch (doubt it lol) so that going for Thunder is more reliable, we'll have to stick to DI guessing games. As much as I'd like having a proper kill confirm it's better than nothing.

Has anyone found any uses for wall jump B-reversed Thunder?

 

[Gibbs]

N.Air is the thing that gives the ability to be horrifyingly aggressive in the neutral

How does n-air effect pika's neutral. SH n-air is crazy unsafe on block with all that lag and FH n-air just gives away stage position. It's also probably pika's least disjoint aerial, so it's garbage for spacing. F-tilt probably has more uses in neutral than Nair.

 

[Ritronaut]

You can actually prevent them from DI'ing behind you. You just have to jump slightly back and thunder. No one ever does this though.

That's actually something worth looking into, moving very slightly towards the farther blastzone if they end up not DIing so that they can't DI there after the spike.

Has anyone found any uses for wall jump B-reversed Thunder?

I'm 99% convinced this is actually useless and a waste of time to practice.It doesn't look useful like, anywhere, just something cool to do.

 

[Soul.]

Good to know. I didn't even think it was useful to begin with; was just asking.

 

[Thor]

I mostly use NAir after UAir. I mean, is there ever a time where I'd want to use BAir instead?

I use bair after uair because it has a wider hitbox. That said, I'm trying to use nair more [I for some reason get a lot of sourspot nairs after uair, something I need to grind in training or something to fix].

[Also, if my calculations are correct, bair does marginally more damage... nair does 8.5%, bair does .8*7=5.6+3 = 8.6%, although if the move stales as it is used than this is inaccurate.]

I don't know if this question can answer, but I'll go ahead and say it.

If any of you Pikachu players have good experience against Samus, not Zero suit Samus, then please let me know and I'll do my best to improve. I just faced a really good Samus player and had fun, but I had a lot of trouble against Samus. Approaching her was the biggest problem because I keep getting wall out by her aerials, charge shots, and missiles. I tried being aggressive against her and put out pressure, but it didn't work because I keep having a difficult time reading her aerials which is hard to punish. I got in a few times, but I end up getting baited a couple of times and get charge shot at. Jiggling her is difficult thanks to her down-b. Well, that's all I have so I hope that your advice helps so I can get better with the MU as Pikachu.

We can walk/run under super missiles [test this to see if it's both or just one of them] and can definitely crawl under them.. Her SH fair is laggy, and her grab is not that fast so you can shield more in this MU than usual.

Samus should have issues landing... while down+B is good, if they use it a lot, just wait it out and punish it with fair or something. I could possibly offer more advice later... but one important thing is that you will occasionally have to shield projectiles in this MU, but when you do, occasionally consider doing Quick Attack OoS towards her to immediately close the gap. Yes, she can read this option, but if you do it rarely, it will let you start to quickly apply pressure.

Uthrow is better because it's faster making it harder to react to with DI and it has less recovery which makes it less likely they'll dodge a guarantee thunder follow up.

And bair can be used the same way as nair as a follow up after uairs. They both have similar damage, knockback, and speed. There isn't much of a difference between them as a finsher except you can't use bair near the ground because you won't get all the hits. I guess if you don't want to stale one then use the other. But which move is better to keep fresh?

I use bair a LOT [I think it's something I should change], but I will state that fresh nair offstage seems good for getting KOs while edgeguarding. I know bair has more KB (or it looks like it), but people can SDI bair to where they'll be stage-spiked [and they can thus be prepared to tech it or else play the 50-50 of tech vs no tech] or even just launched back onstage... while you (mostly) can prevent this by fading back with them in your bair, you're then taking them farther away from the blastzone, so I don't know if it actually KOs earlier than nair in that case.

[I also edgeguard with dair a lot... do bair/nair really have more KB than offstage dair? I always thought dair and nair were about equal...]

EDIT:

Is it useful?

It theoretically has value in a teams situation where your teammate just go star KO'd... stall offstage with this for a while, since most people will have no idea how to punish it, even with two people, until your teammate gets back. It could also be used to end a timeout, but I don't know if it's worth learning it for either situation.

 

[Onyxsbayne]

Hello, Greninja main here, looking to try Pikachu for some fun. Over in the Grenjnja section, we have a board for all, (or most), of Greninja's combos and AT. Is there a quick guide or thread I could look at to get a general idea of how to play him. I checked the index, but didn't really see anything there like this.

 

[Underhill]

I use bair after uair because it has a wider hitbox. That said, I'm trying to use nair more [I for some reason get a lot of sourspot nairs after uair, something I need to grind in training or something to fix].
[Also, if my calculations are correct, bair does marginally more damage... nair does 8.5%, bair does .8*7=5.6+3 = 8.6%, although if the move stales as it is used than this is inaccurate.]

Samus should have issues landing... while down+B is good, if they use it a lot, just wait it out and punish it with fair or something. I could possibly offer more advice later... but one important thing is that you will occasionally have to shield projectiles in this MU, but when you do, occasionally consider doing Quick Attack OoS towards her to immediately close the gap. Yes, she can read this option, but if you do it rarely, it will let you start to quickly apply pressure.

Thank you. I never thought of OoS Quick attack and I'll have to practice it, but I appreciate the advice. It's ok; The more advice that you have, the more I'll be happy to hear and try to improve against her.

I sometimes use N-air off stage for gimps, depending on the character, but like Fox and Falco, when he uses Fire Fox, I'll have to use n-air and d-air instead of b-air, sometimes against their recovery.

 

[isaiah :)]

would it be possible for us to get a pikachu tech thread ?

 

[Soul.]

Tech as in "technique"? I suppose, dunno what would we discuss on there though. Techniques in general or just QA tech.

 

[Pikabunz]

Hello, Greninja main here, looking to try Pikachu for some fun. Over in the Grenjnja section, we have a board for all, (or most), of Greninja's combos and AT. Is there a quick guide or thread I could look at to get a general idea of how to play him. I checked the index, but didn't really see anything there like this.

Sorry we don't have anything like that, but Pikachu doesn't have any major AT's that you should learn besides QA cancel and his combos are all just uair to more uairs or utilts to more utilts then there's some dthrow stuff. The most fancy thing he can do is dthrow > uair > fair > grab and repeat, but I don't think that's a true combo.

 

[Angiance]

You're wrong: one of the most fancy comboes we have is D.Throw > U.Air > D.Tilt > Dash Grab > F.Throw > tech chase

 

[Coro_]

We should consolidate a proper comprehensive guide to Pika, maybe

 

[iVoltage]

We should consolidate a proper comprehensive guide to Pika, maybe

I also think that we need a decent one that isnt "uptilt. > upair"

 

[isaiah :)]

my go to combo at early percents is Utilt > Nair > Fair

and yes i think we need something, pikachu is a character that requires a decent amount of percent knowledge and we as pika mains are lacking in that area, i know most combo's are DI based but DI can be considered when listing easily.So we should have a list of different early percent combos that work on different characters (Ex most combos don't work on yoshi at early percents) as well as higher percent's and we really should learn what combo's pikachu can pull off at rage percent's (opponent has a fresh stock). what i see with most too all pikachu's and even with esam is pikachu has remarkably easy time racking up damage but at later percent's if pikachu doesn't have all the momentum, he cannot get the kill.

 

[miniada]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...oMZlbJXqKPtHEBFgA&sig2=S6h_5fXqPjLt5WNSvbfizg we are discussing pikachu and friends and would love your input

 

[Megamang]

You're wrong: one of the most fancy comboes we have is D.Throw > U.Air > D.Tilt > Dash Grab > F.Throw > tech chase

I think he meant combos that hit opppnents who have a clue.


Anyways, as for samus, take advantage of her lack of a good lingering hitbox to challenge QA. Combos out of QAs at mid percent are a great way to make the risk:reward of QA massively in your favor.

Her jab doesn't link properly at low percents, so get in and stay in. Keep a tjolt coming at her if she knocks you away, the less she fires charge shots the better. Her tether means you can pressure her shield more than most characters, but dont get grabbed when she has a charged charge shot.

Thats all i have for general tips, anything in particular you were having trouble with?

 

[Angiance]

I think he meant combos that hit opppnents who have a clue.

You do realize that the term 'combo' in Smash Bros' sense is any string of hits; it doesn't have to be true, hence why we have both the term combo AND true combo in the Smash Bros Library...

 

[isaiah :)]

--------------- great job on getting the thread organized guys