Q&A Pikachu Q&A Thread (Ask a Quick Question, Get a Quick Answer)

[Golden Sun]

I meant I have trouble with Pikachu vs. Yoshi and Pikachu vs. Link. I hope Yoshi bodies Link, because the Link matchup seems like a careful footsie issue, whereas the Yoshi matchup is just a mess of stupid parries and crap.

oh lmao I also thought you said "Yoshi was almost ungimpable.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

With Pikachu? Yeah. Nothing Pikachu has in the air gets through his jump armor. I'm sure Kirby has a slightly better time of it (inhale helps), but Pikachu? Hard. Very hard.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

*wall of text*

Let's say Pikachu does end up Top 3 at some point in the metagame. I still think he would be overshadowed by Diddy, Sheik and other less input heavy, technical characters. Pikachu has never really been a character you secondary because he requires a lot of practice and upkeep. I think we would see an increase of the amount of players using him, but I don't think having a pocket Pikachu (lol pocket pocket monster) would be too common. I do agree with ESAM that he is a great character and I agree that few people really understand his potential.

So.
http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2t0p5n/ct_esam_on_twitter_might_as_well_say_it_im/
What does this mean for Pikachu? inb4 it's low tier (I'm only kidding lol)

That means one of us needs to get good, fast. Also we really need Pikachu players producing more video footage. I will be doing so starting this weekend. I'll be posting everything I record of myself so I can analyze and grow and that others may benefit.


Also Yoshi is really scary. I find the matchup difficult as well. He's kinda fat, is hella fast in the air, can DJ Armor through our aerials, kills more efficiently than we do, and can maintain constant pressure and threat from just being a flying dinosaur/his annoying eggs. Its also hard to go in on Yoshi when Nair can break combos and he's fast enough in the air to run away for extended periods of time.

 

[JayWon]

Let's say Pikachu does end up Top 3 at some point in the metagame. I still think he would be overshadowed by Diddy, Sheik and other less input heavy, technical characters. Pikachu has never really been a character you secondary because he requires a lot of practice and upkeep. I think we would see an increase of the amount of players using him, but I don't think having a pocket Pikachu (lol pocket pocket monster) would be too common. I do agree with ESAM that he is a great character and I agree that few people really understand his potential.

Good. I agree. That's a relief. I posted that video on reddit and Pikachu got huge amount of attention today and some have been saying they'll pocket Pikachu so casually in the comment sections on Youtube/Reddit -_-;;

 

[Chey]

Hello! I'm new to the Pikachu board and just wanted to introduce myself. I'm Chey, 17 and female, and played Smash Brothers since Melee, but only started playing more seriously with Smash 4. I'm also from Germany so excuse any english-mistakes! I was always a Pikachu-fan and used him a lot in Brawl to annoy my friends I'll sure ask questions about techniques and other topics later, but right now I don't have any. I'd also love to play with some of you, so that I can get better through tips and experience (I'm not that good, yet) Thank you already for the many helping guides, tips and youtube-links!

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Weisste was toll ist über fremdsprachler?

Die tun ihr bestes, gescheid zu reden. :D

Welcome to the pikachu boards. Now I'm not the new guy any more! If you want to check out the ditto, I'm up for a few rounds in maybe an hour or so. Also, do you know www.smashlabs.de ?

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Well since Smash 4 will be at EVO, I'm going to go and my plan starts now. If I find a European teammate (if any are going), my experience will be complete. I wanna team with someone I'd never get the chance to team with regularly.

 

[Soul.]

Well I've been wasting my time on the 3DS version trying out Pika's customs. Distant Thunder is eh. Heavy Skull Bash is great, I don't know what else.

Up throw → Distant Thunder at high percents sounds like it could work.

 

[Ephenilliac]

I was playing a match on 3ds against a Pikachu the other day and I noticed he was doing something that looked like a dash dance. Would anyone know how someone would be able to do something like that with Pikachu or other characters? Excuse my laziness if someone explained this elsewhere.

 

[Soul.]

I was playing a match on 3ds against a Pikachu the other day and I noticed he was doing something that looked like a dash dance. Would anyone know how someone would be able to do something like that with Pikachu or other characters? Excuse my laziness if someone explained this elsewhere.

I'm pretty sure you're talking about perfect pivots. Those are helpful for Pika when you need to space with FSmash.

 

[Ephenilliac]

I'm pretty sure you're talking about perfect pivots. Those are helpful for Pika when you need to space with FSmash.

Guess I'll have to look into perfect pivots, thanks for the info

 

[Chey]

@ Budget Player Cadet_
Das stimmt, man ließt von "native speakers" oft schlimmere Fehler :D

Right now I'm pretty busy with life, I think I have time on sunday, but thank you for offering to play with me. I hope we get to play at some point! I still make a lot of mistakes which I don't notice, so maybe someone else sees them

 

[PF9]

I just realized that there are 25 replies in the Skype group thread now, and 25 is Pikachu's national Pokedex number

Anyway my Pikachu Amiibo, nicknamed The Brain (cookies to whoever can guess this reference) is level 37 now, I've been training it by having it team up with me as Pikachu against 2 level 5 CPU Pikachu. Initially I did 5-stock matches on Final Destination, then 10, then 20, next match will be a 30-stock match.

 

[M15t3R E]

Check out Zero playing Pikachu on For Glory if you haven't done so already! Compared to ESAM, Zero doesn't do all the fancy advanced tricks Pikachu can do but you can still see just how effective Zero is able to utilize Pikachu's basic toolkit in a very overwhelming manner!

Holy crap the juggles!

Anyways, Zero mentions that he believes Pikachu is a hidden top tier character, definitely Top 3. He mentions no one knows just how good he is and thus root for Pikachu since he's the "underdog" against the current top tiers and he's just so cute. Esam believes Pikachu is Top 1!

How would you feel if eventually in the future Pikachu's potential is finally acknowledged and it is indeed known by everyone Pikachu is indubitably a Top Tier (potentially #1 best) character? How would you feel if everyone starts to have a "pocket pikachu" and playing Pikachu is seen as a tier *****? Though I'd assume it wouldn't be as bad as diddy since diddy requires no effort, and even though Pikachu may be extremely good, Pikachu still does have to work very hard.

Any general thoughts related to Pikachu's future?


____
Just other things,
Background information about me: I'm just a casual, I only play For Glory (70% win rate), no tournaments. But holy **** Pikachu has so many options at EVERYTHING-- Edgeguarding, approaching, punishing, grab follow ups, juggles, getting back on stage. SO SO SO MANY OPTIONS! Like... a simple thing like approaching with thunder jolt + [the many many options] just gives off SO much nonstop pressure! Sometimes when I play people on For Glory I sense just how overwhelmed they must feel from the constant pressure, especially when they think they finally have a break and some space but BAM in your face quick attack follow ups.. and I feel bad lol.

For example (IF YOU HAVENT SEEN THIS DEFINITELY WATCH IT!)

This isn't me playing but look how helpless Ganondorf is the majority of the time. Holy crap did you see the offstage game of Pikachu in the second game?

And I also feel bad sometimes when I am able to go ridiculously deep and make it back with so safely with quick attack lol.

Pikachu is at least top 5, but few are willing to commit to learning this very technical character.
And WOW that Pikachu was good, even if he loses. As fun as the gameplay is to watch, I can attest that it is just as fun, if not more so, to be the one behind the controller. That is why I play Pikachu. The thing is for this match-up, against slower characters who have start-up lag on most of their moves, Pikachu's true potential will come to light. I spar with a very competent Sheik player regularly and that match-up looks and feels far and beyond different from Pika vs. Ganon. You can do some similar things in that match-up but it's absolutely more nerve-wracking.

 

[~Radiance~]

I dont know if pikachu's theoretical placement is going to be synonymous with his actual tier placement. Pikachu suffers from many of the same faults he did in brawl, and while lack of SDI helps tremendously and lets strings happen, his lack of range and being very dependent upon playing very smart and confusing I believe is going to make him not a top choice for tier placement initially. I agree that he has a lot of great tools, and is one of few characters who can really take advantage of lack of SDI and grab follow ups now, but I think it's going to be similar to brawl in that we will have one key player and a lot of people who are relatively unknown and far below the level of the top pikachu. Just my two cents, i am a pika main and love him as i did in brawl, i just dont feel like his placement will be terribly high due to the skill cap.

Also hi again everyone, been gone lately because speedrunning the Zeldos has been my primary hobby as of late. Hope everyone is well!

 

[M15t3R E]

So.
http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2t0p5n/ct_esam_on_twitter_might_as_well_say_it_im/
What does this mean for Pikachu? inb4 it's low tier (I'm only kidding lol)

That is sad. I've always used Pikachu and Anther was my original insiration. But ESAM kept that going for me and many others. Now I have to make time to re-enter the tourney scene it seems.

 

[~Radiance~]

I intended to mention this yesterday but i thought it was already known by the pika boards. Also since its not an official claim cant also say for certain he will quit. This is actually why i said the whole tier list thing as well since ESAM was so much better than any other pika its gonna take a while before a new one comes on top as being really inventive and tricky the way ESAM is/was.

 

[Soul.]

This game (in general) is still new, so it's going to take a long time for a tier list to show up. And even then, customs will most likely be allowed which would make everyone pretty much viable. Meh.....tier lists are pointless right now.
What we know is that Pikachu is a great character, that's all.

--

I seriously don't know who wins the Pika vs. Sheik MU. Probably even.
It may be slightly on Sheik's favor. Pika needs to work hard to win this matchup. Most likely the point of this MU is to outplay the opponent and punish.

Also yes, we obviously beat heavies.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

A few things:

1. I've got two tournaments this weekend. Wish me luck.

2. I've started recording my gameplay and will have more videos this weekend. I'm still mid level at this point but I figure others could benefit from more Pika videos up.

 

[M15t3R E]

This game (in general) is still new, so it's going to take a long time for a tier list to show up. And even then, customs will most likely be allowed which would make everyone pretty much viable. Meh.....tier lists are pointless right now.
What we know is that Pikachu is a great character, that's all.
--
I seriously don't know who wins the Pika vs. Sheik MU. Probably even.
It may be slightly on Sheik's favor. Pika needs to work hard to win this matchup. Most likely the point of this MU is to outplay the opponent and punish.
Also yes, we obviously beat heavies.

I'll post this in the Matchup thread too.
Okay, this is my area of expertise. I have played the Pika vs. Sheik MU too many times to count. The first thing you need to understand is that the neutral game is dead even. Someone has to approach first and neither character will want to at the start of the game. The needles travel so much faster than thunder-jolts and don't fly over Pikachu's head. This usually prompts me to be the one to approach. If you anticipate the fairs and intermittent barrages of needles, you can approach in multiple ways. First of all, examine how the Sheik likes to try and shut down your approaches. If it's with excessive fairs, don't try challenging it with your aerials but instead move along the ground and close the distance. If it is a mostly grounded Sheik player (possibly zoning back and forth), approach by ground or fairs alternating every so often to mix it up. Approaching with QA is also effective as it is against any character so long as it is not abused. Sheik will space with fair and bair as their bread and butter attacks but this gives you an opening to rush in after you shield it. If the fair or bair is telegraphed, d-smash will work. At first, I was thoroughly intimidated by Sheik's bouncing fish (down B) as a follow-up and as an edgeguarding tool. If shielded, it will bounce Sheik right back to her starting position, too far to punish in most cases. An air dodge gives you the most invincibility frames to avoid it and when it is avoided Sheik is a sitting duck for a couple seconds. Bouncing fish is also surprisingly susceptible to being intercepted by Pikachu's fair and bair, in my experience. When you get the grab use f-throw -> DA at extremely low percents or d-throw -> u-tilt -> uair string at relatively low percents and any damage higher than that do d-throw -> uair string. If Sheik is being predictable while airborne, don't be afraid to get directly below and start a uair string right then and there. She can't do anything if you are directly below. As for tech chasing, Pikachu is adept in covering an opponent's tech roll and Sheik's is no exception. I frequently get the punish when my opponent's Sheik is being too predictable in their tech rolling. It's usually going to be performed in the direction away from Pikachu. Make use of this information and go for the tech chase! Off-stage game is pretty moot because neither character has an easy time gimping the other. Sheik can recover at deceptively far distances with vanish and once they hit Up B there is nothing more you can do to prevent them from grabbing the edge. I like to stand near the edge and predict their get-up by throwing out a thunder wall as I jump forward, putting the thunder between the two of us.
Well, that's all I can remember about that MU right now. It is either a dead even MU, or at worst 55/45 in Sheik's favor. I feel like Sheik does not need to work as hard to keep up but that is a biproduct of Sheik's gameplay- not a result of adapting to Pikachu's playstyle.

A few things:
1. I've got two tournaments this weekend. Wish me luck.
2. I've started recording my gameplay and will have more videos this weekend. I'm still mid level at this point but I figure others could benefit from more Pika videos up.

Good luck! I envy you, ya know! I need to find time for tournaments too.

 

[Soul.]

I'll post this in the Matchup thread too.
Okay, this is my area of expertise. I have played the Pika vs. Sheik MU too many times to count. The first thing you need to understand is that the neutral game is dead even. Someone has to approach first and neither character will want to at the start of the game. The needles travel so much faster than thunder-jolts and don't fly over Pikachu's head. This usually prompts me to be the one to approach. If you anticipate the fairs and intermittent barrages of needles, you can approach in multiple ways. First of all, examine how the Sheik likes to try and shut down your approaches. If it's with excessive fairs, don't try challenging it with your aerials but instead move along the ground and close the distance. If it is a mostly grounded Sheik player (possibly zoning back and forth), approach by ground or fairs alternating every so often to mix it up. Approaching with QA is also effective as it is against any character so long as it is not abused. Sheik will space with fair and bair as their bread and butter attacks but this gives you an opening to rush in after you shield it. If the fair or bair is telegraphed, d-smash will work. At first, I was thoroughly intimidated by Sheik's bouncing fish (down B) as a follow-up and as an edgeguarding tool. If shielded, it will bounce Sheik right back to her starting position, too far to punish in most cases. An air dodge gives you the most invincibility frames to avoid it and when it is avoided Sheik is a sitting duck for a couple seconds. Bouncing fish is also surprisingly susceptible to being intercepted by Pikachu's fair and bair, in my experience. When you get the grab use f-throw -> DA at extremely low percents or d-throw -> u-tilt -> uair string at relatively low percents and any damage higher than that do d-throw -> uair string. If Sheik is being predictable while airborne, don't be afraid to get directly below and start a uair string right then and there. She can't do anything if you are directly below. As for tech chasing, Pikachu is adept in covering an opponent's tech roll and Sheik's is no exception. I frequently get the punish when my opponent's Sheik is being too predictable in their tech rolling. It's usually going to be performed in the direction away from Pikachu. Make use of this information and go for the tech chase! Off-stage game is pretty moot because neither character has an easy time gimping the other. Sheik can recover at deceptively far distances with vanish and once they hit Up B there is nothing more you can do to prevent them from grabbing the edge. I like to stand near the edge and predict their get-up by throwing out a thunder wall as I jump forward, putting the thunder between the two of us.
Well, that's all I can remember about that MU right now. It is either a dead even MU, or at worst 55/45 in Sheik's favor. I feel like Sheik does not need to work as hard to keep up but that is a biproduct of Sheik's gameplay- not a result of adapting to Pikachu's playstyle.

Hmm. I tend to use QA to approach right away so that I can start the up tilt combos. I try to not "abuse" it though, so it's just for approach purposes. Most of the time I end up using forward throw → dash attack to rack up damage, though down throw → up air / nair works as well. Up throw → Thunder is a good KO set up (if that's what it is...).

Didn't know Bouncing Fish could be intercepted by FAir and BAir.

 

[M15t3R E]

Hmm. I tend to use QA to approach right away so that I can start the up tilt combos. I try to not "abuse" it though, so it's just for approach purposes. Most of the time I end up using forward throw → dash attack to rack up damage, though down throw → up air / nair works as well. Up throw → Thunder is a good KO set up (if that's what it is...).

Didn't know Bouncing Fish could be intercepted by FAir and BAir.

Yup, I forgot to mention the up-throw -> Thunder. I don't know for sure if it is ever guaranteed, but it works sometimes at high percents. Also, typically with rage, back-throw at the ledge will kill Sheik around 120% and up-throw will kill around 160%.

 

[Zeallyx]

Hello Pikamains, I've been playing around with Pikachu today and I've learned QACs and QALCs. This made me wonder, as pretty much every angle can be used to QALC (even when Pikachu is grounded, granted he's near an edge) how viable would you guys say a QALC OoS is to get to safety quickly?

Also, using some QALC angles opens up some nice combo potential. Pikachu is pretty cool. =D

 

[Comet7]

does pikachu's hurtbox still increase a lot during quick attack? i know it did in the previous games, so i really just want confirmation.

 

[M15t3R E]

Hello Pikamains, I've been playing around with Pikachu today and I've learned QACs and QALCs. This made me wonder, as pretty much every angle can be used to QALC (even when Pikachu is grounded, granted he's near an edge) how viable would you guys say a QALC OoS is to get to safety quickly?

Also, using some QALC angles opens up some nice combo potential. Pikachu is pretty cool. =D

QALC would be unecessary OoS as a simple two-directional QA would be sufficient. In actuality, this is not any better an option for retreat OoS than simply using nair, rolling, jumping, or dashing away.

does pikachu's hurtbox still increase a lot during quick attack? i know it did in the previous games, so i really just want confirmation.

It retains that property from Brawl, yes. An example of this is Sheik's up-smash still hitting after Pikachu has QA'd away from her over her head but before the QA finishes. This is not such a detriment though, as it is pretty much impossible to pull off intentionally and very rare to even do on accident.

 

[Zeallyx]

QALC would be unecessary OoS as a simple two-directional QA would be sufficient. In actuality, this is not any better an option for retreat OoS than simply using nair, rolling, jumping, or dashing away.

I agree, thanks for your reply.

 

[M15t3R E]

I agree, thanks for your reply.

We welcome any questions anyone curious about Pikachu may have so you're welcome.

 

[Soul.]

Yup, I forgot to mention the up-throw -> Thunder. I don't know for sure if it is ever guaranteed, but it works sometimes at high percents. Also, typically with rage, back-throw at the ledge will kill Sheik around 120% and up-throw will kill around 160%.

Well this is new. Back throw on the ledge will KO Sheik.....that's great. Even though she may DI so that she can recover back, use Bouncing Fish and come back, but we have FAir and BAir.

 

[M15t3R E]

Well this is new. Back throw on the ledge will KO Sheik.....that's great. Even though she may DI so that she can recover back, use Bouncing Fish and come back, but we have FAir and BAir.

Yes, I have killed with these throws quite a few times and I'm confident DI was irrelevant at that point. But note that I said with rage, typically >100%.

 

[CURRY]

HUH.
This thread doesn't notify me even though I'm watching it.
That's weird.
But yeah, fair is so weird. Does anyone have ANY idea why it sometimes sends opponents straight down when you don't connect with the last hit? Even though you're RISING? >.>
Also, Quick Attack is so fun. I need to get better at using it.

 

[Soul.]

HUH.
This thread doesn't notify me even though I'm watching it.
That's weird.
But yeah, fair is so weird. Does anyone have ANY idea why it sometimes sends opponents straight down when you don't connect with the last hit? Even though you're RISING? >.>
Also, Quick Attack is so fun. I need to get better at using it.

Either you're fast falling FAir or I don't know what is the other idea.
‐ FAir has meteor smash properties. Albeit, they're small and won't let you do that 100% of the time. You only connect FAir's last hit for combos in the air, such as FAir → FAir → FAir → FAir → KO on either the left or right blast zone.
Also QA is so fun I agree. You should definitely keep using it.

A bolded hyphen ("‐") means I'm not sure if it really does have meteor smash properties. Bolded hyphens are barely noticeable lol.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I placed 17th out of 62 ( I think?). I'm improving a lot but tournament nerves are putting a damper on my tech skill. I play soooo much better in MMs. I'm a totally different player with Pikachu when I'm calm. At least we're making progress.

Oh I got a lot of **** recorded too. So many different matchups too. Good start to my weekend. I learned so much. Switched up my mindset and it's working out great One more event tomorrow!

 

[~Radiance~]

I agree, thanks for your reply.

one benefit of using QALC or a QAC OoS is that you can reset to netural and do a tjolt out of it, so its a good option if its safe. Obv QA has startup and it makes your hurtbox bigger, so if you are in a ton of aggression in your shield it may be best to not QA away due to the startup and hurtbox issues it has, but overall if you have the tech to QA away and make it ledge cancel or QAC then go for it. its flashy and its good.

Also placed 5th in dubs this weekend with Pika Villager combo. Get hype

 

[Zeallyx]

one benefit of using QALC or a QAC OoS is that you can reset to netural and do a tjolt out of it, so its a good option if its safe. Obv QA has startup and it makes your hurtbox bigger, so if you are in a ton of aggression in your shield it may be best to not QA away due to the startup and hurtbox issues it has, but overall if you have the tech to QA away and make it ledge cancel or QAC then go for it. its flashy and its good.

Also placed 5th in dubs this weekend with Pika Villager combo. Get hype

The startup is what threw me off, but that's true. Thanks for the info!

 

[Chey]

I finally won with Pikachu against my friend who could always beat me with any character! Just two fights out of many, but still, that's huge to me!

 

[M15t3R E]

I finally won with Pikachu against my friend who could always beat me with any character! Just two fights out of many, but still, that's huge to me!

Good job, in what ways do you feel your gameplay has improved specifically? It is always a good idea to examine both your strong and weak areas.

 

[Chey]

I started to read his movements more, he spotdogdes way too often, so I could adapt to that. But I still roll to much and I need to mix up my approaches and defensive options, so he can't read me as easily as he always did.

 

[M15t3R E]

I started to read his movements more, he spotdogdes way too often, so I could adapt to that. But I still roll to much and I need to mix up my approaches and defensive options, so he can't read me as easily as he always did.

Instead of rolls try Oos nairs or sometimes holding your ground and putting up a shield or spotdodge is a better idea. Try approaching with quick attack, it's hard to punish.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

My results this weekend:

Rebirth:

5th out of 25 teams
17th out of 65 singles

Gamer's Gauntlet:

3rd out of 17 teams
9th out of 40 singles

I saw soooooo much improvement this weekend. Officially leveled up. And I found my secondary finally.

 

[Soul.]

What is your secondary? Is it Charizard or Ness? Not quite sure honestly.