Meta Pikachu Metagame Discussion

[Megamang]

Don't rely on T.Jolt against Marth, it'll get you annihilated.

What you need to do is not really be afraid of that range and keep in mind that we can outspeed him. His sh F.Air has a large gap as he is falling down; Dancing Blade has gaps in between each slash, but the down variation can be used as a great fakeout since after it Marth moves himself back a surprising distance.

He only has a single KO setup, and it's Jab 1 > F.Smash, but you can just jump away after Jab 1, outside if that he literally can't KO you unless you let him.

Marth has falling uair kill confirms AND a better KO throw than we do. Ftilt tippered will also kill near the edges.

Also dont get cocky with fsmash landing traps; Marths counter is also deadly in certain situations (charging a fsmash is a good one)

 

[Angiance]

Yeah, but all of that is stuff that Pikachu really has no business getting hit with.

 

[Megamang]

You must be on another level if you dont get hit with ftilt

 

[Angiance]

Marth has to try hard to get Pikachu

 

[Coro_]

Umm, Marth has no answers to Tjolt, in general he struggles against projectiles.
If he jumps it he can be aerial'd, if he Counters he's vulnerable after, if he shields it he's vulnerable to grabs; in other words, he's susceptible to the mixup. He's nowhere near fast enough to come over and punish you during tjolt cooldown if you don't use it near him either. If at full stage length, abuse tjolt and force him to come to you, then punish him. He has cooldown on a lot of his moves so putting the pressure on him to approach will make it a simple punish game.

 

[Angiance]

APPARENTLY none of you have played a GOOD Marth, because a GOOD Marth will KILL YOU for using T.Jolt so reliably

 

[Megamang]

You tjolt outside of his range; its called zoning and pika is excellent at it. Yea, if you tjolt standing still in fsmash range, youll probably lose.

 

[Coro_]

Like i said, he lacks speed to run over and punish you if you use it at say, the other end of FD. Obviously you don't use it if he can just dash-sh fair you out of it
Once you have the jolt hitbox on the stage, that leads to the mixup I mentioned earlier, so yes, use tjolt

 

[Angiance]

Okay, sir. If you are really going to sit here and act like the GIGANTIC startup window of T.Jolt isn't something an opponent will take advantage of, then you need to get off of For Glory. If the Marth is smart, he will adapt to it and take advantage of the huge weakpoints it has: just DASHING IN as Pikachu is rising during it's animation is nasty for the Pikachu because now Marth has stage control and you're still in the animation in the air...it's too easy to PowerShield and punish Pikachu for the T.Jolt and it's also too easy to attack through the T.Jolt and hit Pikachu

 

[Coro_]

Hitbox of air tjolt is active at frame 19-116, FAF is 58
Marth at fullscreen cannot cross the stage and hit you out of it in 58 frames unless he predicted it and is already dashing in, which he can't predict if you're using it sparingly
once hitbox is on the stage, he has to deal with the jolt coming towards him, while pika is free to act

 

[Megamang]

You must really commit when you tjolt, because no one else feels that way. Yes it has startup (massive? No). So take that into consideration, use tjolt intelligently... and now marth has to approach/ battle two hitboxes on the ground. Yes, individually each tjolt approach can be stifled, but he has to choose preemptively and pika doesnt, so take advantage of that.

 

[Angiance]

I am very upset with the both of you right now...go ahead, keep using T.Jolts, see how far it gets you

 

[Thor]

Considering ESAM uses t-jolt sparing against ZeRo, who is playing a faster character than Marth with a burst mobility option [bouncing fish], I'm pretty sure t-jolt can be used sparingly against Marth with at least decent results.

I don't feel I'm terribly effective at using thunder jolt effectively myself, but I'm hoping I can improve that with time (something tells me I'm not capitalizing on what my opponent does after they perfect shield it, jab it, or jump it or whatever). I definitely use a decent number of them in any case.

Marth uthrow is pretty reliable for killing Pikachu... Pikachu won't live much past 150% in this MU, and shieldbreaker hits shields pretty hard, so shielding is less safe in this MU than in most MUs.

 

[EhMon]

From beating arguably the best Marth in Texas, I can tell you tjolt spam can definitely work. Tjolt spam and not falling for QA baits made it nearly impossible for him to get anything started. He was having to shield or jump so often I definitely felt in control since he was almost always on the defense.

Later on in the set, manipulating space and rhythm with QA1, empty jumps, and bursts of raw pika aggression and returning to tjolt camping really worked out. It's against pika's nature to play zoney imo, but he can definitely do it. Against characters with no comparable projectile or reflector, it's pretty much free if you're semi competent.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with anyone that mindless spam of anything will get you punished. Just that tjolt can really break certain matchups.

I disagree that Marth doesn't have the speed though...best walking speed in the game, and dash isn't bad either. Can easily power shield and close distance if you aren't careful. Again, just mind your spacing and you should be fine.

 

[Underhill]

How do you guys feel about the mu against ? I had a ton of experience against her and face a few competitive Peach players who are good and put in work on the character while also having experience against Pikachu. I'm cool with the mu and its fun also as long as you play it, right and be patient against her air game and float. Plus, I think its even, myself personally.

 

[Angiance]

Underhill
I don't believe it is even. We outspeed her, combo her, and we can KO her. She doesn't have anything on us at all.

 

[Underhill]

Underhill
I don't believe it is even. We outspeed her, combo her, and we can KO her. She doesn't have anything on us at all.

Yeah, I realize that now and Pikachu has a slightly advantage on her like Luigi does as well. While its still not a free mu for Pikachu if you play against a good Peach who also have knowledge on the mu, but he can still outdo her, though.

 

[Nijp]

I am not sure how active this board is since I don't usually go on smashboards, but i felt the need to post this here as well.
I have recently come upon a new type of QAC that I am calling Dash Cancelling or QAC-D (Quick Attack Cancelled - Dash). This technique not only creates new offensive options for pikachu, but also some defensive ones too. Check out this post for the details and gifs showing the technique off https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/..._new_qac_technique_dash_canceling_xpost_from/

The TL:DR of the post is that instead of jump canceling or special-cancelling, you can input left or right to get a dash or up and down if you want to shield or spot dodge immediately after quick attacking into the ground. It is super easy and it allows for a much larger variety of options out of quick attack.

 

[Noro~]

The biggest thing that Peach has on us is trading aerials. I used to have really big problems against my local Peach due to my overly aggressive Playstyle, but since I learned to fake approaches and started playing a more reactive style this MU became much easier.
Fair beats out her standard float > Dair approach. Once she starts going for trades (Fair or Nair will trade 12/15:1 against our Fair) you can just bait out the aerial, wait, then punish the ending lag. Jolt helps a lot, since it forces Peach to approach.


On another note, have you guys been using Upthrow > Thunder (sweetspot) on DI much? It seems to me that I'm the only Pikachu main in my country that hasn't abandoned this rather difficult tech (to the point where I'm the only one I know of who can pull this off consistantly on almost any Character if I read the DI), even though it nets me a considerable number of my kills.
To hit a Thunder after an Upthrow, they usually Upthrow, wait, then punish airdodges or jumps by delaying the Thunder, sometimes going for a kill off the top a la brawl. Which kills later iirc.
What are your thoughts? Which one do you prefer?

 

[Coro_]

Me personally I prefer using bthrow and fthrow to constantly throw opponents offstage, since I'm iffy with getting uthrow-thunder. Plus, forcing the opponent into an edgeguard situation constantly can do wonders on their mental state.

I do use it once in a while though which can surprise them and make them miss their DI.

 

[Angiance]

The biggest thing that Peach has on us is trading aerials. I used to have really big problems against my local Peach due to my overly aggressive Playstyle, but since I learned to fake approaches and started playing a more reactive style this MU became much easier.
Fair beats out her standard float > Dair approach. Once she starts going for trades (Fair or Nair will trade 12/15:1 against our Fair) you can just bait out the aerial, wait, then punish the ending lag. Jolt helps a lot, since it forces Peach to approach.


On another note, have you guys been using Upthrow > Thunder (sweetspot) on DI much? It seems to me that I'm the only Pikachu main in my country that hasn't abandoned this rather difficult tech (to the point where I'm the only one I know of who can pull this off consistantly on almost any Character if I read the DI), even though it nets me a considerable number of my kills.
To hit a Thunder after an Upthrow, they usually Upthrow, wait, then punish airdodges or jumps by delaying the Thunder, sometimes going for a kill off the top a la brawl. Which kills later iirc.
What are your thoughts? Which one do you prefer?

It's U.Throw > Thunder...that's just a standard KO setup of ours, nothing special.

I am not sure how active this board is since I don't usually go on smashboards, but i felt the need to post this here as well.
I have recently come upon a new type of QAC that I am calling Dash Cancelling or QAC-D (Quick Attack Cancelled - Dash). This technique not only creates new offensive options for pikachu, but also some defensive ones too. Check out this post for the details and gifs showing the technique off https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/..._new_qac_technique_dash_canceling_xpost_from/

The TL:DR of the post is that instead of jump canceling or special-cancelling, you can input left or right to get a dash or up and down if you want to shield or spot dodge immediately after quick attacking into the ground. It is super easy and it allows for a much larger variety of options out of quick attack.

None of the crap you're talking about is a cancel. We call it Quick Attack Cancel because the animation of Quick Attack is literally canceled into aerial time...

 

[jmjb]

Do you guys find game and watch to be a pain?
he can bucket your thunder jolt and thunder. most of his moves have no down time. his recovery is Hella fast so there's not much gimp. and he's tiny. bacon walls are tricky to get around, since you can't tjolt.
I just find him a pain to deal with, anyone else have thoughts on him?

 

[Dashie]

Do you guys find game and watch to be a pain?
he can bucket your thunder jolt and thunder. most of his moves have no down time. his recovery is Hella fast so there's not much gimp. and he's tiny. bacon walls are tricky to get around, since you can't tjolt.
I just find him a pain to deal with, anyone else have thoughts on him?

I have some experience.

 

[Megamang]

A nice trick vs gaw is to fire off tjolts when he cant afford to bucket them, ie kill percents. The first 2 are punishable by running usmash.


Often i open with one, grab punish the bucket... later i fill a second for a kill... then never fire one again. Probably pretty frustrating to play against.

 

[Dashie]

A nice trick vs gaw is to fire off tjolts when he cant afford to bucket them, ie kill percents. The first 2 are punishable by running usmash.


Often i open with one, grab punish the bucket... later i fill a second for a kill... then never fire one again. Probably pretty frustrating to play against.

Yeh just use T-Jolts for baiting, off stage and in unexpected moments.
When the bucket is 2/3 full use T-Jolt more sparingly than usual.

From my experience G&W has a lot of moves with little ending lag, so I just learned to space G&W out, get the necessary combos, get any necessary reads and keep away from his stronger moves.

In short just learn to play smart and figure out what works and doesn't at each stage of the match as (almost) every character is unique and how the opponent uses the character.

 

[Blackxkaiba]

could this be potentially useful or is it basically useless?

 

[Piyuli]

What's the best for a new pikachu player to improve ? Zoning with the B and trying to punish or playing aggressif ?

 

[Dashie]

What's the best for a new pikachu player to improve ? Zoning with the B and trying to punish or playing aggressif ?

Probably being aggressive and avoiding obvious stuff.
You probably won't learn much if you camp as a newb and end up not getting mileage.

Best to experience up close, then if you feel like you can get more off zoning the enemy out, try playing more campy.

Just experiment and see what you could do!

 

[jmjb]

could this be potentially useful or is it basically useless?

was that just walking fsmash? it seems dash speed, but farther than dash distance

 

[Pikabunz]

If you use fsmash at the start up of crawl or something you get the slide.

 

[Blackxkaiba]

was that just walking fsmash? it seems dash speed, but farther than dash distance

Yeah if you input the f smash at the beginning of the crawl this happens

 

[w0ah]

For the mu you're forced to play patient. Puff will try to bait you by using moves that are safe on shield so be careful acting oos. I reccomend running away then full hop tjolt. Puff will recover high often so try for thunder kills.

 

[Xephilon]

Just wondering, has anyone found any reliable kill sets up for Pikachu? The only ones I know are FF Fair -> Usmash and Uthrow/Dthrow -> Down B but none of these are truly reliable (Fair can get shielded, Throw can get DI-ed)

Sorry if this has been asked before but I don't want to go through 19 pages of meta discussion <_< just that my Pikachu combo game is really good, my QAC is finally becoming more stable with less SDs but I can never get a good read for the kill...

 

[Pikabunz]

Just wondering, has anyone found any reliable kill sets up for Pikachu? The only ones I know are FF Fair -> Usmash and Uthrow/Dthrow -> Down B but none of these are truly reliable (Fair can get shielded, Throw can get DI-ed)

Sorry if this has been asked before but I don't want to go through 19 pages of meta discussion <_< just that my Pikachu combo game is really good, my QAC is finally becoming more stable with less SDs but I can never get a good read for the kill...

You can try to go for a jab lock kill set up. You set that up with sh dair, dtilt, or by pushing your opponent off a platform.

 

[Xephilon]

Well yeah there's that too but if they tech (except pushing opp off of a platform) I won't be able to jab lock. So in other words, I guess there isn't one...I have to rely more on reads.

 

[w0ah]

Well yeah there's that too but if they tech (except pushing opp off of a platform) I won't be able to jab lock. So in other words, I guess there isn't one...I have to rely more on reads.

At the ledge if you grab them and you are facing the ledge pummel a few times, then try to d-throw thunder. Most people automatically DI in. Mario has a similar set up with D-throw fair.

 

[Code: Atlas]

Hi guys! New to SmashBoards, but definitely not new to Smash itself. For my first major post, I figured I'd contribute to the thread by adding the match-up I experience most often. I didn't see this match-up covered here, so I figured adding it would be good!

INTRO:
Alright, so many people are aware that this match-up is absolutely terrible, in most circumstances for Captain Falcon. Not too bad on stage, sure, but off stage it's a free win for a competent Pikachu. I myself am a Captain main, and the person I spend most of my time playing with just happens to be a rather skilled Pikachu player (lucky me...). In this post, I'll be going over the match-up as in-depth as I can, but please remember that this is from my perspective: I do not play Pikachu, so most of you reading this know far more about him than I do. I may get some things wrong when it comes to his info, feel free to let me know in a nice way; I'll correct it ASAP!

Alright, enough blabbering...onward!

THE NEUTRAL:
Advantage: Captain Falcon

The neutral stance is one of the only times in the match where I believe Captain Falcon has the advantage, if only slightly. On the ground, Captain Falcon has more mobility than the electric rodent. His run speed is the second fastest in the game, where as Pikachu is stuck down at 15. Also, the Captain's dashing animation is top-notch, giving his foxtrots and extended-dash-dances (EDDs) simply amazing (seriously, if you aren't doing these as Falcon, it's time for you to hit the lab). Captain Falcon has the best dash-grab, and (when properly boost-grabbing) can out-range the mouse's d-tilt if timed properly.

To make up for his (comparatively) slow speed, Pikachu has Quick Attack as an approach option. This move, staying true to its name, is extremely fast, and can be used to catch an opponent off guard. Captain Falcon is a fast-faller, so hitting a quick attack can easily combo into several tilts or aerials, or even a USmash for follow-up. However, this moves becomes predictable if used too frequently, gets stuffed by literally all of the Captain's aerials (including the Knee...ouch). Getting hit out of Quick Attack by a well timed NAir means easy combo damage at low percents, and getting hit by a BAir can result in an edge-guard situation. Obviously, getting stuffed by a Knee is sure death at higher percents, but this is extremely risky for for Falcon, and should be used rarely if ever.

Captain Falcon:
- Space with short-hopped NAirs and BAirs, while avoiding UAirs if Pikachu is grounded. He is half your size, and hitting a UAir on him while he's on the ground requires nearly frame-perfect inputs.
- BAir will true-combo into a dash-grab at low to mid percents, while a NAir will lead into another NAir or a UAir. Use this for damage ramp.
- Use EDDs to remain unpredictable, but avoid overusing them. A good Pikachu may see this as a good time to Quick Attack and engage, and your Dash-Attack just gets stuffed by it.
- Try and avoid becoming grab-happy. Pikachu can simply duck under your grab and punish. If they consistently do this, mix it up with the occasional Dash-Attack.
- If Pikachu uses an aerial on your shield try not to Shield-Grab. Many of the mouse's animations leave him low to the ground, and impossible to grab. A low-angled FTilt is your best bet here.
- DThrow to Knee works between 30-50 percent depending on the opponent's DI. Try to condition Air-Dodges, then bait and punish.

Pikachu:
- Try not to stay on the ground too much: this is what the Captain wants you to do. Empty-hopping is your best bet, as it threatens a Quick Attack.
- If Captain Falcon approaches you while you are mid air, a fast-falled FAir can combo into a grab. If you are grounded, you best bet is a mix of DTilt, FTilt, FSmash if you have time, or a Spot-Dodge. Mix it up.
- Many of your moves trip at low percents, leading into grab combos. Stay on the look-out for opportunities.
- The occasional TJolt is fine, as it can screw with Captain Falcon when he is spacing with EDDs. Watch for his reaction: he may be baiting you to use it more than once.
- Quick Attack combos into UTilt at low percents. The Captain is a fast-faller, so you can string several of these into a few aerials for massive damage.

EDGE-GUARDING AND OFF-STAGE:
Advantage: Pikachu

Offstage has never been a good place to be for Captain Falcon, and this match-up offers no exceptions. In fact, there is almost nothing the Captain can do in this situation to prevent his death, aside from mixing up the height at which he recovers (and occasionally using Raptor Boost instead). Because of this, I will only make a section for the mouse. If you want a tip for Falcon in this section, here you go: STAY ON OR OVER THE STAGE STAGE. Just try and time a solid FSmash, USmash, or UTilt. If you want to chase off stage, avoid going for air-dodge reads (unless you are above Pikachu, then you can bait for a spike), and instead just throw out fast hitboxes with BAir and NAir. Delaying because you are trying to bait will just give the mouse a chance to kill you off-stage instead.

Pikachu:
- If Captain Falcon is recovering low, just fall with BAir. Congratulations, you just killed him. DO NOT FAST FALL. If you do, you will likely SD.
- The Captain, knowing that below stage-level is dangerous, will often recover high. Punish with FAir and Thunder.
- LEARN TO TECH. If you miss a falling aerial and he catches you with Raptor Dive, and you don't tech, you may die. Excuse me, if you are above 60 percent, you WILL die.
- If the Captain recovers with Raptor Boost, FSmash. Nothing to it.

Seriously, that's all there is to say when it comes to edge in this match-up. 9/1 in favor of the rodent is giving the Captain too much credit.

STAGES:

Captain Falcon:
Smashville
Final Destination
Dreamland
Battlefield

Pikachu:
Town and City
Lylat Cruise
Delfino Plaza
Halberd

Fine For Both:
Castle Siege
Duck Hunt

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And that's about it! I may comeback someday and add somethings as I learn them (like frame data), but for now I'm going to call this complete. It should be noted that this guide is intended for people who already have a decent understand of both characters individually, and is not entirely new to the game. If you have in corrections, questions, comments, or concerns, just let me know!

Thanks for reading, and good luck in your games!
Atlas.

 

[PlayNuff]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KvOSWZ5gdc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6EGNVTujHk
I think it doesn't have been discovered yet, and it's probably true.

 

[w0ah]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KvOSWZ5gdc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6EGNVTujHk
I think it doesn't have been discovered yet, and it's probably true.

What characters does it work on? Does it only work on heavies?
Also Upsmash isnt your best option. You should go for double up tilt into nair or bair. A regrab is also good if you can follow up off of a Dthrow.

 

[PlayNuff]

The first seem to work the best on heavies, the others can DI out of it, the second seems to be more reliable on heavyweight, but it need more testing.