Meta Pikachu Metagame Discussion

[hell-dew]

that data mine is actually amazing thxs for that dude ^

also yoshi tips

SPACE YOUR DAMN MOVES
like im serious spaicng against yoshi matters to an insane degree we have a lot of tools to surprisingly outspace the crud out of him. IE pivot Fsmash uptilt up air and Dtilt are godlike against yoshi also remember foot stool bodies his recovery its not always easy to get on him if the yoshi isnt bad but remember it in the back of your mind. dont camp him with jolts cause Eggs>>>>>Jolts like really hard. also remember he has a bajillion kill moves. if you get Faired into the ground be ready to tech of Nair the hell out of the bounce. DO NOT GET FAIRED TO UPSMASHED that crap kills stupid early. also im pretty sure fair can be safe on shield that move is stupid. and Nair is dumb so when juggling use the outer part of the upair hitbox likewise baiting Nairs with shield is a free body bag.

be aware of shielding against him cause he has a ton of options to hit shield he can Dair Down B and egglay your shield so yeah scary AF command grab that is super annoying. the other thing about yoshi hes mad heavy. like respect his weight and kill him when you know you got it i dunno the upsmash kill % off the top of my head but just remember this dino has a few pounds.

recoverying dont for the love of god get spiked. yoshi is one of the characters that has a pretty free spike. he can spike you out of skull bash for free dont dont be stupid and the startup of quick attack is also free to punish if hes right there for him so yeah dont be a idiot recovering. go around him go low if you must realize your recovery is way better then his actual ability to cover it and even if he reads you just make sure its not ending with you dead.

oh and if your fighting yoshi on wifi rip out all your hair and pray to palutena no seriously hes super super tough on wifi he gets away with murder hes insanely hard to punish. just poke him where you can and never overextend unless your feeling the inner reading rainbow.

 

[isaiah :)]

so i went over some of the stuff we posted originally and i don't think much of it was very viable so i think we should start from scratch and begin a MU Character rotation like the other character threads, with the nice format listed above, however we need Hell-dew active on the front page. @ hell-dew


Edit: i think the rotations should go by quickly since we all will start from scratch with much more knowledge on each of the Match-Ups then several months ago.

 

[Ritronaut]

Thats a good idea, should we make each matchup discussion a different thread? Or would it be all in one thread and we move on to the next after a while. Because the latter is very flawed, since if someone wants to talk about a certain matchup that has already passed the discussion time, they can't really bring it up, since were discussing another character. And if they can bring it up, it would kind of look like a mess.

This could be an amazing idea if we all put in the effort though. If we could all gather certain data on each matchup (I hate to make myself the example but) like I did with the Yoshi one, we would get much better at certain matchups.

 

[Soul.]

I thought of making a big matchup thread (i.e: hub) with all the info from separate MU threads, and then post the thread URL in a spoiler.
The big matchup thread could be used to talk about everything [about MUs], whereas the separate MU threads could be used to talk about that specific MU, such as like, say, Yoshi.

 

[A10theHero]

^ I agree with this.
This thread can be our central hub and @ hell-dew could edit the OP to put the links to the individual matchup threads.
Now the question is who should we start with? Do we want to go down the list on the CSS (start with Mario) or should we talk about the current "best" characters (start with Sheik) first?

 

[isaiah :)]

i think the best thing to do is look at the current tier list to reference who we should start with and go down the line from there, there has always been the "i need a top tier pocket" or something like that for tourneys and i've seen a lot more sheiks and diddys then any other character tbh ,so starting with someone like sheik or R&L is probably best.

 

[Ritronaut]

I say we do it. We should definitely start from the top tiers, such as Sheik, Diddy, Rosalina, and Luigi.The only thing is that seperate matchup threads may clog the recently posted stuff, but we can try it and see how it would work.

 

[Soul.]

It really doesn't matter honestly.
If separate MU threads are a problem, the Index thread can solve that; it could link people to the MU thread which then links them to the separate MU threads.
also agree on starting with top tiers.

 

[isaiah :)]

well we just need someone to start the thread

 

[A10theHero]

I was waiting to hear more opinions, but I guess I'll go make the thread then. Might as well get started.

Edit: I made the thread.

 

[Umbreoff]

Matchup Compilation List Version 0.5

This now includes all matchup information from posts 1-400 of this thread. Before today, it was just 1-200, but I went pretty hard on this project today and doubled the amount of info. Not much has changed. It's the same general stuff I posted last time, just more of it. I hope you guys find this useful.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XWWiqnsBIOmK6hlQ5L4yeoJpJvqjZ51_wOfOkzIFmH4/edit

 

[Ritronaut]

That's pretty cool, organizing it all like that. Good job!

We should definitely do a 2.0 on these, some may be outdated.

 

[Soul.]

So, are we making this thread the hub/whatever of MU discussion?

 

[busken]

I think we should make specific MU threads for each character so information will be more organized and accessible. We should also make this thread like a directory for the specific MU threads.

 

[isaiah :)]

thats a good idea

 

[Umbreoff]

Some of the info is a little outdated. I still wonder if ESAM still thinks luigi vs. Pika is in pikachu's favor. As more and more time has gone on, it seems like luigi has gotten to be more and more of a threat (mario as well I think). I don't remember if ESAM did a write up on Mario yet, but a lot of people seemed to be struggling with the mario matchup around late April. Hoenn is still having a lot of trouble with that matchup. The diddy matchup talk around mid-April was interesting. It took place around the time the patch that nerfed him first dropped. I fight a really good ROB main named Mister Eric on his stream sometime. Shoutouts to him. Maybe I'll link his stream if I get his okay, he's a really nice guy that I think deserves more followers. I might possibly write out some thoughts on the ROB matchup or get him to write up something, but I'm not all that good at the game, so we'll see. I plan on working on this more today. I don't think I'll finish it, but I might get to post #500. I know this is a matchup thread (and I should probably be posting this in the social thread anyway lmao), but after I'm done with my smash break I would love to get some practice with some of you guys. A lot of you are really knowledgable!

Edit: Post#401 is the first one asking for someone to organize all of this information somehow. lol ur welcome. Also, I probably should have organized this post a little better, but meh. Also, ESAM said some things about mario on post#299, but it wasn't a detailed write-up.

 

[busken]

Some of the info is a little outdated. I still wonder if ESAM still thinks luigi vs. Pika is in pikachu's favor. As more and more time has gone on, it seems like luigi has gotten to be more and more of a threat (mario as well I think). I don't remember if ESAM did a write up on Mario yet, but a lot of people seemed to be struggling with the mario matchup around late April. Hoenn is still having a lot of trouble with that matchup. The diddy matchup talk around mid-April was interesting. It took place around the time the patch that nerfed him first dropped. I fight a really good ROB main named Mister Eric on his stream sometime. Shoutouts to him. Maybe I'll link his stream if I get his okay, he's a really nice guy that I think deserves more followers. I might possibly write out some thoughts on the ROB matchup or get him to write up something, but I'm not all that good at the game, so we'll see. I plan on working on this more today. I don't think I'll finish it, but I might get to post #500. I know this is a matchup thread (and I should probably be posting this in the social thread anyway lmao), but after I'm done with my smash break I would love to get some practice with some of you guys. A lot of you are really knowledgable!

Edit: Post#401 is the first one asking for someone to organize all of this information somehow. lol ur welcome. Also, I probably should have organized this post a little better, but meh. Also, ESAM said some things about mario on post#299, but it wasn't a detailed write-up.

It's amazing to see others contributing. Thank you.

 

[Umbreoff]

I did it guys! It's complete! Every relevant post is accounted for! :D Version 0.8/0.9 is up. Scroll up a few posts for the link.
Shoutouts to everyone who contributed. It still needs some sprucing up, but should serve its main organizational purpose quite well.

 

[Eonn]

How do you punish Sonc's landings when his dair has no end lag?

 

[busken]

How do you punish Sonc's landings when his dair has no end lag?

His d-air has no ending lag when you double jump+spring making it very predictable. As soon as you see Sonic jump and use spring jump in mid-air you can bet he's gonna d-air. Just simply catch his landing and shield grab him, or you can quick attack into him. If their are platforms using b-reversed and wavebouned thunders work well too.

 

[hell-dew]

your other option is to hard read his option after it and sometime accept the fact the punish on it is stupid. its a lot like robs Nair where if hes far enough away you can punish the start up simply respect it and watch what happens after

 

[Mister Eric]

Hey guys.

I fight a really good ROB main named Mister Eric on his stream sometime. Shoutouts to him. Maybe I'll link his stream if I get his okay, he's a really nice guy that I think deserves more followers. I might possibly write out some thoughts on the ROB matchup or get him to write up something, but I'm not all that good at the game, so we'll see.

Happy to see your contribution to the Pika boards :D

My thoughts on the Pika/ROB MU:
As a ROB main, I come into this MU fearing two main things:

1.) How low to the ground you stay
This MU got me like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYH7_GzP4Tg
In all seriousness, I find this a big problem for ROB. I have only a few options to attack a Pikachu. Especially if you're coming out of an aerial or if we're on a stage with slants/slopes. I d-tilt & dash attack a ton here.

2.) Quick attack
I fear the beep out of this. Why? I got a big booty. I know you've seen it, and I know you've combo'd it. Like most chars if you nail a quick attack, then it's combo time. The thing I feel in this MU is, my booty loves being hit. Maybe I'm easier to hit b/c of it. Sure feels like it. So once you have me in the air b/c of the quick attack initiation, then it's game time for you. ROB's can get choked up over this and want to sit in shield. I ain't taking damage for a brief period, but now my booty is poking out of my shield like "hit me pls." And you will.

I find both of these difficult to deal with, so please abuse it. If you think ROB shuts this down, ESAM I'm looking at you. I know you have that MU exp. Maybe not a lot, b/c I haven't seen you and 8bitman play much. But maybe you have. I know you think 8bit is a god. That's cool, but how is that MU for you?

What ROB does good here:
Fading nairs to keep you out.
Dtilt.
Gyro
Gyro
Gy-...laser
SH retreating fair
jab
dash attack

That's what you have to deal with. But I think Pika is hard to hit and is slippery enough to find ways in on ROB. Esp with quick attack. If we are camping each other and you are full hopping a neutral b and I am tossing out gyros and lasers like nobody's business, I feel like you win this exchange too. I will land on the thunder jolts, I will clash with them (boooo) and my accuracy won't be as on point because you are a tiny mouse and I'm distracted by your spam.

Overall, this MU is prob 55:45 or MAYBE 60:40 in pika's favor. The meta is still young. But in theory, I see pika having at least an itty bitty edge on the robot. Hopefully that changes

That's about it. Sorry if it's a bit jumbled together. I wrote this on the fly.
Hope this helps!
#ROBSquad beepboop

 

[hell-dew]

Pika rob is bloody annoying i have some experience fighting holy in the MU although the first game i fought him on stream was really spaghetti the second game was a lot closer

rob can punish QA surprisingly well just react properly. people need to stop being bad against that move its not remotely broken as an attack (it is good not gonna deny that) Rob actaully has good tools for boxing us out to his jab and tilt game is hella annoying not to mention the projectile spam which im ok with. lets not forget he has a kill throw that can toast you pretty hard. he has both Dthrow upair which is just dumb and the pile driver (always be aware of platforms above him) his Nair is actaully really dumb you can punish the startup or if you can get the right part of the hitbox otherwise respect it and on landing its pretty silly.

Rob can go under the stage and spam up airs for comming back i just throw jolts at him in my MM with holy (which i need to finish cause i did leave it off at 1-1 q.q) i killed him with wave bounced thunder into the stage (jank) and i also killed him with stage spike up air (more jank) cause rob is surprisingly easy to juggle and hit.once your past his moves. outside of that be aware of the laser at all times espically if off stage holy had that MLG head shot accracy and killed me in teh side blastzones with it so be ready for it.

also when getting off the ledge WATCH OUT. he can spike you straight off the ledge if you linger he can also Zdrop gyro spike you so dont be an idiot when getting off the ledge. Robs upsmash is insane luckily were are small just dont get bodied on the ground but dont anti aired with it cause its knock back is stupid

In terms of the gyro i honestly liked throwing up straight upwards its not only a trap you can throw him into (since hes big its really easy to) it also delays the amount of time he can respawn it keeping it out of his reach. i liked catching it with air dodges to i hadnt tested to many other janky gyro techniques and my item game is kinda meh.

Thundering rob is easy hes a huge target hes not fast at all hes very slow so dont be afraid to beat him up a bit. be aware hes crazy heavy so he dies mad late and rage rob hits like a train. also he can use up up B to get out of combos without losing his jump. and speaking of up Up B you can waste his fuel till he dies if you pressure him enough off stage i had good luck with Fairs and Nairs.

thats the basics as far as i know Esam could easily shed light on the MU cause i really only fought holy for like a grand total of 4 games 1 of which i won.

 

[Umbreoff]

Matchup Compilation List Version 1.00

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XWWiqnsBIOmK6hlQ5L4yeoJpJvqjZ51_wOfOkzIFmH4/edit

I'm going to call this compilation version 1.00 as I think this is the one that finally deserves it. This list includes all posts contained on this thread up until today and a "Meta-Matchup Analysis" section that details how well we've analyzed the characters so far and how much we should prioritize them in the near future. There's also a few really small notes included. I also made this based off of post#250:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lmR_AafY4ghxWd4eR0KdiRiDgtjQxDHplSOt6aLFSbM/edit#gid=0

It's ESAM's matchup list ranked from freest matchup to toughest matchup instead of alphabetically. I think that ranking it from freest to toughest is good because people (newer players in particular) can look at it at a glance and say "Oh so this is who pikachu has trouble against... Guess I'll pick up another character for that matchup." I invite other people to do something similar to what ESAM did in that post. I'll find a way to organize it. I might have a weighted matchup list that finds a way to make sense of all of the matchups and combine them into one essentially.

I'm thinking of visiting the pikachu video thread and searching around on Youtube to find some good pikachu vs. whoever matchups. Either that or visiting other characters' matchup threads and trying to amalgamate that with what I have here. Linking characters' frame data also seems like a good idea. That would all take a long time, though, I think and if I follow through, this might warrant a thread of its own... Maybe.

In the meantime, I request discussions on custom mii brawler and custom palutena because I think they need them.

 

[Ritronaut]

Apparently I need access for that second one

Matchup Compilation List Version 1.00

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XWWiqnsBIOmK6hlQ5L4yeoJpJvqjZ51_wOfOkzIFmH4/edit

I'm going to call this compilation version 1.00 as I think this is the one that finally deserves it. This list includes all posts contained on this thread up until today and a "Meta-Matchup Analysis" section that details how well we've analyzed the characters so far and how much we should prioritize them in the near future. There's also a few really small notes included. I also made this based off of post#250:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lmR_AafY4ghxWd4eR0KdiRiDgtjQxDHplSOt6aLFSbM/edit#gid=0

It's ESAM's matchup list ranked from freest matchup to toughest matchup instead of alphabetically. I think that ranking it from freest to toughest is good because people (newer players in particular) can look at it at a glance and say "Oh so this is who pikachu has trouble against... Guess I'll pick up another character for that matchup." I invite other people to do something similar to what ESAM did in that post. I'll find a way to organize it. I might have a weighted matchup list that finds a way to make sense of all of the matchups and combine them into one essentially.

I'm thinking of visiting the pikachu video thread and searching around on Youtube to find some good pikachu vs. whoever matchups. Either that or visiting other characters' matchup threads and trying to amalgamate that with what I have here. Linking characters' frame data also seems like a good idea. That would all take a long time, though, I think and if I follow through, this might warrant a thread of its own... Maybe.

In the meantime, I request discussions on custom mii brawler and custom palutena because I think they need them.

Apparently I need permission for that second one, could you please fix that? I really want to see that ranking.

 

[Umbreoff]

Ritro- yeah. I will fix it tonight. Sorry about that man. I will edit this when I have this fixed (in the night sometime)

Edit: it should work now I turned link sharing on but I am also on mobile. Tell me if it works for you.

 

[Kaishin]

In your opinions, putting all of your matchup experiences together, who do you think Pikachu's worst matchup is?

I play Rosalina and Luma, for reference.

Without customs, Pikahead is definitely top 2 (with ESAM hailing him as the best character), and probably the only character that can challenge Sheik for the #1 spot. The only reason you don't see many people using him now is simply because his learning curve is so high that he is buns in the lower skill levels and even some mid skill levels. As the game ages, however, there are going to be more and more Pikachu mains able to meet the demands of the character and he is going to become more and more of a problem for the majority of the cast.

I can deal with the run-of-the-mill Pikachu mains that are just getting on the hype train. In fact, the only Pikachu I've ever fought that I've had trouble with was ESAM's. However, when it comes to the upper level ones I'm going to eventually hit a block as the matchup is really gonna get me. It's probably Rosalina's second worst matchup simply because of how good Pika is. Though, it's still significantly better than Yoshi as it's just a case of better char > worse char unlike that MU. I'm already looking for a secondary to counter Yoshi, so if any of you would have any advice on who counters Pikachu, I'm all ears.

From the looks of the word doc, only Sheik and YoshiYoshi are even with everyone else disadvantaged.

 

[phili]

In your opinions, putting all of your matchup experiences together, who do you think Pikachu's worst matchup is?

I play Rosalina and Luma, for reference.

Without customs, Pikahead is definitely top 2 (with ESAM hailing him as the best character), and probably the only character that can challenge Sheik for the #1 spot. The only reason you don't see many people using him now is simply because his learning curve is so high that he is buns in the lower skill levels and even some mid skill levels. As the game ages, however, there are going to be more and more Pikachu mains able to meet the demands of the character and he is going to become more and more of a problem for the majority of the cast.

I can deal with the run-of-the-mill Pikachu mains that are just getting on the hype train. In fact, the only Pikachu I've ever fought that I've had trouble with was ESAM's. However, when it comes to the upper level ones I'm going to eventually hit a block as the matchup is really gonna get me. It's probably Rosalina's second worst matchup simply because of how good Pika is. Though, it's still significantly better than Yoshi as it's just a case of better char > worse char unlike that MU. I'm already looking for a secondary to counter Yoshi, so if any of you would have any advice on who counters Pikachu, I'm all ears.

From the looks of the word doc, only Sheik and YoshiYoshi are even with everyone else disadvantaged.

I think the word document is right. Sheik is probably the hardest as she is probably the only character that straight up wins neutral against Pikachu. Yoshi is definitely hard too because he plays most of the match in the air, spacing with high priority aerials like fair and nair that Pikachu really can't contest. He also has double jump armor and a combo breaker nair to get out of Pikachu's combos and avoid taking massive chunks of damage.

If you are looking for a secondary, I suggest Yoshi rather than Sheik because of the fact that you said you already struggle with Yoshis. I've heard a couple top players say that Sheik struggles with Yoshi because she has no reliable way to kill him. Therefore, picking Sheik would cover the Pikachu matchup, but you would still struggle when you came up against Yoshi. However, picking Yoshi also covers the Pikachu matchup, with the added bonus that it may also help you with Sheik.

Just my opinion anyway, hope this helps.

 

[NairWizard]

Matchup Compilation List Version 1.00

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XWWiqnsBIOmK6hlQ5L4yeoJpJvqjZ51_wOfOkzIFmH4/edit

I'm going to call this compilation version 1.00 as I think this is the one that finally deserves it. This list includes all posts contained on this thread up until today and a "Meta-Matchup Analysis" section that details how well we've analyzed the characters so far and how much we should prioritize them in the near future. There's also a few really small notes included. I also made this based off of post#250:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lmR_AafY4ghxWd4eR0KdiRiDgtjQxDHplSOt6aLFSbM/edit#gid=0

It's ESAM's matchup list ranked from freest matchup to toughest matchup instead of alphabetically. I think that ranking it from freest to toughest is good because people (newer players in particular) can look at it at a glance and say "Oh so this is who pikachu has trouble against... Guess I'll pick up another character for that matchup." I invite other people to do something similar to what ESAM did in that post. I'll find a way to organize it. I might have a weighted matchup list that finds a way to make sense of all of the matchups and combine them into one essentially.

I'm thinking of visiting the pikachu video thread and searching around on Youtube to find some good pikachu vs. whoever matchups. Either that or visiting other characters' matchup threads and trying to amalgamate that with what I have here. Linking characters' frame data also seems like a good idea. That would all take a long time, though, I think and if I follow through, this might warrant a thread of its own... Maybe.

In the meantime, I request discussions on custom mii brawler and custom palutena because I think they need them.

Just read this document. Nicely put together, entertaining read. But one thing on the Ike matchup:

I kinda lost in faith in the matchup discussion after SolidSense said it was 50:50 customs off. I’m sorry, but… no.

@san. believes it to be even now, and it was probably close to even before Ike's buffs this patch. Ike has a lot of tools that work well against Pikachu. The Ikes believed that the Brawl Ike vs. Pika matchup (when all Ike had was jab) was also even. Something to consider if nothing else.



In general, this patch buffed the sword users a lot, and I think we should talk about them sometime.
Link was buffed moderately, gaining KO confirms out of his grab, which has larger range now. He also got a d-tilt buff
Ike was buffed massively, gained landing lag buffs on everything, f-air has twice the vertical range now...up-tilt has 4 frames of extra duration, dash attack now KOs us at the ledge at 90%, etc. Heavy list of changes.
Marth was buffed so that jab to f-air is guaranteed (if you airdodge you eat an f-smash), Dolphin Slash and up-tilt were also buffed, DS is frame 4
Lucina too, f-smash is even easier for her though
Roy is a new character, should have some thoughts on him
These above sword characters merit some discussion at some point in time.

Sheik, as always, merits much discussion

Diddy Kong is basically a new character now and we should discuss him as well.

Brawler will be around in force at EVO and we should discuss him.

Mario is probably our toughest matchup (I know ESAM disagrees, but most of the Pikas find this difficult from my experience), and we should talk quite a bit about him.

^ these are my thoughts

 

[Jmacz]

What are the general thoughts on the Luigi MU? I really struggle playing my friends Luigi with Pikachu, probably win 1/10 games even though I feel as if he is my best character. I don't have nearly as much problems beating him with custom Kirby, Greninja, and post patch Charizard. I specifically have problems with him on the ground, his nair can be pesky when breaking combos but I've gotten a lot better at knowing when it's coming. But on the ground I just really struggle with punishing him. His F-smash comes out so fast I have all but given up hope on that, but his dash attack is what really annoys me. He is really predictable with it, and especially with Kirby I have gotten really good at baiting it out, hopping over him and bairing him for a kill or at least. With Pikachu the best I can seem to do is nair or bair him which just barley sends him offstage. It's really hard to follow up on those for whatever reason, and usually just able to grab the ledge before I can even do anything.

Am I just bad at Pikachu, or am I better off just using one of my other characters against Luigi's?

 

[Umbreoff]

Thanks for the thoughts on the doc everyone I will probably update it tomorrow with your guys' thoughts.

Solidsense can you elaborate more on the Ike matchup? You seem knowledgeable so I think you're right, but I'm curious now. What tools does he have that is effective against pikachu?

Edit: I ask partly because you said it was close pre-patch too. Again I believe you, just wondering how.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Yay Kirby vs Pika isnt 65:35
lol anyways
I cant wait to see some actual true MU discussion going on, maybe it would help me to understand which of my mains best deal with Pika.
Its weird, you say Peach has an easier time then Kirby, but imo Kirby for some reason has an easier time, though thats just me and i dont wanna go into details on why xD

Anyways are there any other noteworthy Pikas besides ESAM, because taking more then one top level pikas opinions and experience would help more correct? I mean ESAM(i think?) is the only Pika (I know next to none so dont quote me on that)
that already played him greatly from brawl.

Well I hope you guys do well, sorry that I have to say its annoying Pika is STILL good considering how he was in brawl......or any game for that matter

 

[NairWizard]

Thanks for the thoughts on the doc everyone I will probably update it tomorrow with your guys' thoughts.

Solidsense can you elaborate more on the Ike matchup? You seem knowledgeable so I think you're right, but I'm curious now. What tools does he have that is effective against pikachu?

Edit: I ask partly because you said it was close pre-patch too. Again I believe you, just wondering how.

Ike is the only heavy in the game that is actually difficult to gimp/edgeguard. At some levels you can probably gimp Ike's side-b recovery by carrying him offstage with f-airs then intercepting the side-b with either Thunder (well-timed Thunder will make Pikachu immune to the Quick Draw hit but kill Ike) or just your body, and Ike will fall to his doom. But smart Ikes will conserve their double jumps and either Aether right away or airdodge (4-5 frames of punishment opportunity for airdodges that aren't to the ground in this game; offstage airdodging was buffed coming from Brawl) and then Aether. The invincibility on his up-b makes it hard to get a b-air, Thunder, f-air, etc. edgeguard on him, so often you have to just let him get to the ledge and then trap him there. Don't get me wrong, Pikachu is great against people on the ledge, but it's not the same as taking the stock like you can with literally every other heavy.

Bowser: can't recover high due to up-b landing lag, just kill him for recovering low
Ganondorf: n-air or b-air from above will do him in, or save your double jump and double jump n-air if he tries to get cute with up-airs
Dedede: he has a great recovery for most matchups but it's very vulnerable to Thunder and his airspeed is garbage, no threat here really
Charizard: up-b is kinda difficult to edgeguard, and Charizard has multiple jumps, but Charizard's aerial mobility is really bad, unlike Ike's, so you can carry Charizard off a lot easier and then f-air him when he's low.
Donkey Kong: only hard to edgeguard in customs, not really hard in default, the up-b doesn't have that much distance, and you can f-air or b-air through some of the blindspots iirc

Ike is harder than all of those guys to edgeguard, so he tends to live to higher %s, and as a result can better use Rage to KO us.

Prepatch, Ike relied on a handful of tools since many of his moves were bad: d-tilt, f-air, n-air (which could be punished), b-air, pivot f-tilt, and jab. That was basically Ike, and that was why he was bad, but those tools were particularly effective against Pikachu. They were disjointed moves with a lot of reach, decent speed, and high knockback (well, d-tilt, f-air, f-tilt, and b-air at least)--Pikachu has never liked that, and Ike lived long enough against us to secure stocks with these moves. In addition, while Ike's slow on the ground, his initial dash and airspeed are great, and Pikachu's airspeed is actually not that great despite QA and great air acceleration/max horizontal movement in the air. Ike could set up a handful of traps that it was hard to simply QA out of (such as bait an airdodge into delayed b-air, or crossup b-air on our shield into a grab). Finally, Eruption was actually decent against QA's ledgesnap and if Ike timed it correctly it destroyed us instantly. If you tried to QA over the ledge sometimes you would get hit anyway by the top of the Eruption; it's one of the only matchups where Pika has to be careful about recovering, though his recovery certainly isn't bad in the matchup.

If I had to put a ratio on it I'd say we beat him 60:40 prepatch, or maybe 55:45--it's hard to say when Rage d-tilts or a well-timed pivot f-tilt could take the stock so easily. It's a little different from other sword-character matchups like vs. Marth or vs. Toon Link or even vs. the Pits because those characters are lighter and don't kill us as easily off of Rage (I mean, Marth has tipper but Pikachu is so fast that it's hard to space the tipper against him).

Of course, the prepatch matchup is now irrelevant, as no one will ever play it again (likely), so let's talk about after the patch: Ike doesn't have to play defensively against us any more. jab 1 -> jab 2 is a lot faster now so jab 2 is basically a longer-ranged jab if his shorter-ranged but faster jab doesn't have enough reach. Combat walking (canceling jab 2 into jab 1) also builds up damage on us pretty quickly. f-air's vertical hitbox was improved massively, it now is both an up-air, a d-air, and a f-air all in one move, kind of like Dedede's f-air from Brawl (hits the top platform of Battlefield out of a hop), and it's hard to Quick Attack forward when QA extends our hurtboxes directly into the f-air so often now. Ike's dash attack now kills us as the edge of the stage at around 90% depending on the stage, so when Ike runs at us our options are slightly more limited since we don't want to guess wrong and lose a stock.

Random other buffs to Ike: The landing lag on all of Ike's aerials was decreased, so he can use up-air or f-air more liberally. His throw game was made better so he can trap into an up-air or f-air too. F-tilt was made faster so it's an actual tilt now instead of a pseudo-smash attack, and up-angled f-tilts beat all of our aerial approaches (especially pivot). d-tilt combos into f-air at a wide range of percents, and Ike can kill us off of either move (depending on %). Up-tilt's duration was increased by 5 frames (massive) so now if we try to QA through Ike and he up-tilts we can lose the stock for that, since it's a kill move. Quick Draw is now like 5 frames faster on startup so it's a decent mixup on recovery now. Incidentally, the buff to Quick Draw also applied to Close Combat, meaning that CC in customs can punish a lot of what we can do now.

Though, to be fair, I think we win against Ike with customs on since Heavy Skull Bash is ridiculous and Ike's disadvantaged state is bad. It's easy to trap him into an HSB. But I don't think that Pikachu has any matchups worse than 50:50 in customs.

 

[Umbreoff]

I didn't pay attention to the brawl scene, but I do know of some good pikas. No pika is on ESAMs level yet, but I can think of a handful of good ones to watch. Hell-dew, the op actually, placed well at GOML I think, so he seems good. Pikabunz (K prime) places consistently in Texas tournaments. Hoenn is a good Chicago player. NAKAT (east coast) has a good pika as well (though he plays more ness and fox I think). Kenny is good. You can probably find some videos of him at Smash At Xanadu (S@X). I don't really know who else. Pikachu is a character with a high learning curve, so it may be difficult finding good mains, but he's a great fighter, so expect more people to pick him up.

Edit: also Ty solid for the write-up. May make another edit once I read it.

Edit 2: just read it. Good post!

 

[Disgaea D2]

I'm no Pikachu main but I'm a G&W main so I'm willing to give some information on this unexplored MU. G&W isn't a threat when you first see him but in the right hands he can punish most of your mistakes. G&W has an up smash with invincibility frames which means you have to be clever if you intend to approach by air. G&W has also a really good dash attack, a pretty safe jab, dthrow combos, bucket, and one of the best edgeguarding tools if used right. In short, he's a character who will punish Pikachu's mistakes with some of his eccentric moves and jank. G&W is not without some mistakes. His aerials are a bit laggy and can be punished if one holds their shield long enough if not spaced correctly and G&W is the 3rd lightest character in the game. What Pikachu mains should do is out bait G&W and watch if the player makes a mistake. The MU (Sorry to be biased) is 50-50 or 55-45 G&W.

 

[Coro_]

After fighting a Japanese Game & Watch several times (and losing badly), I looked up the matchup document, but nada :/
So I guess here's some thoughts on the matchup, starting with notable moves:

Jab (Greenhouse) - Stupid fast startup, good range. The puff of smoke is disjointed so it stuffs out our own jab and even possibly dtilt. I found myself struggling at point blank cause he could always go into this after dropping shield, catching me in it
Ftilt (Lion) - This. Friggin. Chair. Sure, it has bad endlag, but the chair has no hurtbox at all, so it stuffs everything you try to hit G&W with, if you're at the wrong place. A good G&W can deny your spacing with aerials with strategic application of this, and your other means of approaching, Tjolt, well, see below. Also, this can kill around 133% at the ledge. Fun.
Dtilt (Manhole) - There's a windbox on this thing, so it can disrupt you if you're over it in the air. The move can also apparently disrput projectiles, but I'm not sure about that since the G&W I fought went for bucket over this when I shot a telegraphed Tjolt at him. Either way, it's yet another disjointed hitbox with stupid good range, and it also can kill at 137% at the ledge. Oh, and jab can combo into it. Also fun.
Dash attack (Helmet) - It's a pretty good dash attack, with very fast recovery. Due to G&W's choppy animation, I found it hard to read when he was going for it. With practice, I'm sure anyone can see it coming, but for now I'm mentioning it due to it's recovery and how many times he chased my landing with it.
Fsmash (Fire Attack) - The torch. Another disjoint, pretty far range, watch out :/
Usmash (Octopus) - Helmet headbutt. This smash is dangerous. Very, very dangerous. It gives G&W invincibility frames on his upper body on frames 4-26, which means he can startup after you attack and still connect this smash. A good G&W can catch a lot of landing with this, so if you see him preparing to smash, find some way to land away from him. This kills the earliest of all his smashes too (101% uncharged, 64% full charge)
Dsmash (Vermin) - The double hammers. It's also disjointed, but feels a bit more telegraphed. I dunno, never really had problems avoiding this, though I suppose technically it could be as bad as Fsmash.
Dair (Donkey Kong Jr.) - The stall-then-fall meteor smash key attack. Unlike our good friend Link, this stall-then-fall ends pretty fast, enough that you'll see G&W use this for edgeguarding. This thing also has a deceptively large hitbox, and it meteors on startup. The tricky thing about this move is that when combined with his Up B, he can either slowly drift down on his parachute or suddenly go into this fast-falling aerial. It's a bit of a guessing to catch him in the air when he's recovering via UpB, in that regard.
Neutral B (Chef) - Projectiles, projectiles, projectiles. Can be annoying to deal with if you're at the ledge. It won't gimp pika, but it will annoy him and tack on a bit of damage. You could try throwing tjolt to make him stop and let you come back on the stage, but you risk him bucketing it. Quick Attack might also work, but you can get hit during startup since there's so much food flying around. More often than not I found myself just taking a few hits to get over the stage, then going for Quick Attack further away from G&W. Maybe it's another thing that can be beat with practice, but it's definitely gonna catch you if you're unfamiliar with the matchup.
Up B (Fire) - I mentioned it under dair, but other than that he can also cancel into any aerial, so be careful.
Down B (Oil Panic) - aka the reason this matchup forces you to play different. Three tjolts is enough to secure a near OHKO on the little mouse, let alone if you let him bucket a thunder. It also doesn't go away between stocks - if you kill him once, he'll still have his oil on the next stock. Most G&Ws I've fought would like to fill the bucket, take your first stock, then get an Oil Panic on you for an easy KO on second stock (like Mac with KO Punch, except it can't be removed). This is why I suggest never ever using tjolt on G&W unless you're sure he can't bucket it, since he retains the charge for the whole game once he gets it. Yes, you can punish him bucketing it, but I feel it's not worth giving him such a powerful tool just to bait him out. If you wanna live on the edge, go ahead, but otherwise, yeah, he's denied us our projectile spacing tool.
G&W can also absorb Thunder, so things to note is to be careful using it to edgeguard. If you're dropping the bolt between you and him, he can absorb it. If you're offstage and dropping the bolt onto yourself, he can absorb it and let you fall further, since no burst to bounce you :/

Overall, this MU's way trickier than it looks. G&W's very choppy animation can make it difficult to discern startup and endlag, so you need to be far more familiar with the character than probably any other character just to begin with. Once you're past that though, G&W has a ton of disjointed hitboxes, so the neutral game can be quite challenging (both ground-ground and ground-air). The threat of Oil Panic can deny you the use of tjolt, making neutral even trickier. In the air, it's more in our favour I feel, as long as we watch for rogue dairs; we can juggle him as well as we can juggle anyone else. He doesn't really have an answer for Quick Attack either, so you can approach him with it, I guess - just watch out for Chef. He's gimpable too, but Fire is a really good recovery, so you have to work for the gimp.

Basically, once you open him up he's easy enough to deal with, but it's really difficult to open him up to begin with; and in this matchup more than any other matchup, you have to learn his animations to stand a chance.

EDIT: Wow, what a coincidence, another G&W post that showed up while I was writing this, who knew
Me personally I'd put it at 55:45 in Pika's favour, cause once he opens G&W up he can take the advantage :/

 

[Stigmata]

In your opinions, putting all of your matchup experiences together, who do you think Pikachu's worst matchup is?

The only reason you don't see many people using him now is simply because his learning curve is so high that he is buns in the lower skill levels and even some mid skill levels. As the game ages, however, there are going to be more and more Pikachu mains able to meet the demands of the character and he is going to become more and more of a problem for the majority of the cast.

Don't be too sure of that. Pikachu was hailed as a Meta Knight counter at the end of Brawl and had a chance to move up the tier list quite rapidly due to ESAM's success, and there were hardly even any Olimars at that point either. Yet nobody took the time to learn Pikachu because he was so tech-heavy while MK was pick-up-and-cash. I think you'll see the same problem with most top players picking Shiek for ease of success rather than Pikachu.

 

[Pikabunz]

Pikachu's learning curve isn't that high at all in this game. The hardest thing to learn is the edge cancels and that's not really that important. Just learn your bnb combos, your spacing, and get good at edge guarding and you're good to go. I hear Zero is going to pick up Pikachu because of all the nerfs to the other characters. I doubt this will last long and Zero will finally realize he's not a top tier character. At most he'll keep Pikachu as a counterpick character which is what Pikachu should be used for.

 

[Arkleus]

How's that Roy MU coming along?

 

[isaiah :)]

i've never played different against G&W if anything as pikachu you can use Tjolt to get game and watch to do what you want