Pikachu Match-Up Discussion

[Garde Noir]

Olimar destroys you guys. Just saying.

and so do Ice Climbers. We know

 

[Paradoxium]

Alright, so I've given this thread a much needed facelift! I put all characters into a section, either only needing a color placement or needing any strategy whatsoever. I think we can all agree that Sheik is one of Pikachu's hardest matchups, so I put her in red already. Let me know which matchups you think deserve what colors, and any strategies if you have them! Thanks

i like what ya did to the place sapphire

 

[Cassio]

Pikachu loses to Mewtwo, Diddy, MK, Wario, and maybe squirtle and Ivy. Shiek ICs and Olimar are ezmode

 

[B.W.]

You've obviously never played against a real Olimar player.

 

[Paradoxium]

I think Pikachu loses to dk aswell, and I think he loses to tink

Everyone undestimates olimar because they have no idea how to play him

 

[Cassio]

He might have more bad MUs those are just ones Im pretty sure are bad. But if you camp DK and run away and force him to approach its fine, I think its pretty even. If pika didnt have a projectile it might be bad.

Toon Link and Olimar are two of the only characters pika can gimp reliably. I think he beats toon link since toon link gets beat so bad offstage actually. Olimar is only bad if you dont know how to deal with pikmin. The character could stand to be more advanced or the MU played more but I dont see a pika that knows how to control olis lineup having too hard a time.

 

[B.W.]

I dunno about all this, Pikachu can easily gimp Olimar reliably.

I'mma have to get Anther's attention on netplay to play this match more, but until I do, I disagree with that statement.

 

[Paradoxium]

No way man, Tink beats Pikachu. Its like 1 grab and it's 0 to death. Since Tink is really fast as well it's hard to get in on tink, and Tinks air moves beat out Pikachu's (But I think Pikachu's fair beats tinks nair). On stage game is in Toon Links favor

 

[Choice Scarf]

Forgive me for me noobness, but can someone explain exactly why Pikachu loses to Sheik, ICs, and Olimar? I've been looking around but Pika is not discussed much on those characters' boards. The Sheik boards even say Sheik vs. Pika is even, but they don't list why.

If I had to guess, I'd want to say Pika's fall speed and/or weight makes him combo fodder for Sheik, Pika's close-ranged options are overpowered by ICs' dps (for the lack of better term), and Olimar's Pikmin are just hard to get past without quicker disjointed moves.

Also, any good MUs? I'd think spacies and heavyweights due to chain throws, right?

 

[foxygrandpa]

Pika's pretty good on marth if you ask me. Out mobilizes him and can weave in and out of his distance game.
I really dont see sheik being bad now that her chain grab is gone. That was really holding pika back in melee
He's pretty damn amazing on spacies, and captain falcon.

 

[Jiggle4Life]

Pika's pretty good on marth if you ask me. Out mobilizes him and can weave in and out of his distance game.
I really dont see sheik being bad now that her chain grab is gone. That was really holding pika back in melee
He's pretty damn amazing on spacies, and captain falcon.

I know falcon is eithers pikas favor or even but I still have a hard time on him any tips?
also marth I just get f-throw f-smash sooooo many times these are my hardest MUs

 

[foxygrandpa]

I know falcon is eithers pikas favor or even but I still have a hard time on him any tips?
also marth I just get f-throw f-smash sooooo many times these are my hardest MUs

Im still kind of exploring pikachu. He's insanely fun to play with, but he's not my main or even secondary.
From what I can tell, pikachu can really combo falcon hard. Upthrow into upsmash and keep him in the air to make him helpless. Also, his recovery is really exploitable. dont be afraid to follow him off the stage, he's pretty useless there.
Dont get grabbed against marth. I know its easier said than done, but I think pikachu has an easy time not getting limited by his range. Also, you really just have to react to where he's throwing you. DI away no matter what.

 

[Cassio]

No way man, Tink beats Pikachu. Its like 1 grab and it's 0 to death. Since Tink is really fast as well it's hard to get in on tink, and Tinks air moves beat out Pikachu's (But I think Pikachu's fair beats tinks nair). On stage game is in Toon Links favor

Nope, pika beats toon link free. I played the best one too. lol, ok no free but its probably at worst even.

Also yeah I meant pikachu CAN gimp olimar.

 

[Paradoxium]

Nope, pika beats toon link free. I played the best one too. lol, ok no free but its probably at worst even.

Also yeah I meant pikachu CAN gimp olimar.

Who is the Toon Link you played? Because it appears we completely opposite views on this match up lol
Do you by any chance have the matches recorded?

I know falcon is eithers pikas favor or even but I still have a hard time on him any tips?
also marth I just get f-throw f-smash sooooo many times these are my hardest MUs

When grabbed by Marth hold your control stick down and away and you should be fine. Also cross up his shield to avoid getting shield grabbed, Although that's hard to do over laggy wifi

Ken actually believes the Pikachu vs Marth match up is in pikachus favor, and I can see why

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

I have decided to put Marth as yellow. He looks like he could go either way and I agree with the varying 40-60 or 45-55 matchup. He would only get red if he was consistently extremely difficult to beat with Pikachu, but it seems like this varies quite a lot (more than normal, I'd say) with skill level and MU knowledge.

 

[Jiggle4Life]

ok I have some insight on the ICs mathcup
I find there weak point is when you have them in their shield since they don't have many oos options but grab as long as you land behind them when you do an air attack
ten just keep the pressure once they are trying to space away they are most vulnerable

if you get grabbed at low percentss then DI away from them, they don't seem to have a CG on pika that I am aware of.

to desyns thm I think up-air does well to put nana in a hepless position
also QAC can be a fast escape to juggling or a way to appraoch

 

[jayeldeee]

So something I learned against spacies. Apparently back throw is really good against them. I've tested this out. I haven't found out percentages yet, but what you do is when you grab a spacie, back throw them off stage. When they come back for the recovery, thunder jolt them by jumping the air and landing a direct hit. It knocks them back and makes it literally impossible for them to recover. i'll test this more, but yeah, it's crazy.

 

[Jiggle4Life]

So something I learned against spacies. Apparently back throw is really good against them. I've tested this out. I haven't found out percentages yet, but what you do is when you grab a spacie, back throw them off stage. When they come back for the recovery, thunder jolt them by jumping the air and landing a direct hit. It knocks them back and makes it literally impossible for them to recover. i'll test this more, but yeah, it's crazy.

You can also do this with grab realease at the edge if your close enough
You can also use d-air to knock fox/falco out of up-b

 

[Paradoxium]

Fox and falco are free over the edge

Pikachu vs Squirtle, GGOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

 

[Cubelarooso]

Probably the main thing I've learned about fighting squirtle is go to a small stage, keep your distance, and let him kill himself with Side-B.

 

[Comet7]

What do you guys think of PIkachu against Charizard?

 

[Cubelarooso]

I should clarify that I'm only being partially facetious about Squirtle. Obviously, it's not a good strategy to rely on your opponent defeating themselves, but it does seem to be a material threat even for Squirtle mains, and evasion is the best response to Side-B. Fsmash can also hit him out of it after a certain point, although I don't actually know the threshold, and remember that he can jump over it. Small stages are good since Bubble, Side-B, crazy slippy-slides, and bair all mean Squirtle has the advantage at mid-range. GHZ might be best.
Also, be aware that his Up-B hits far in front of him, and I've had no success trying to Fsmash through it. Haven't had much chance to experiment with attacking from above or behind.

No real experience against Charizard.

 

[Comet7]

Does Usmash beat out squirtle's up special? I think I remember doing that to a cpu once...

 

[Paradoxium]

Does Usmash beat out squirtle's up special? I think I remember doing that to a cpu once...

How do you even hit squirtle with an upsmash while he is using his up B?

 

[MisterNipNips]

Matchups i need insight on: Pit, Mario, Yoshi, ike. Thanks!

 

[Jiggle4Life]

Matchups i need insight on: Pit, Mario, Yoshi, ike. Thanks!

Yoshi is a annoying matchup
If you do t combo quick enough he can nair and just escape
Also watch out for his side b if you get hit by it you gonna take allot of %
And be carefull putting shield pressing yoshi has insane oos option
As for edge guarding goes if you hit him with your up-air tail spike out of his double jump it cancels his upward momentum and just sends him downward and if he tries to side b onto the stage the just down -b allot hope this helps

 

[Jiggle4Life]

Matchups i need insight on: Pit, Mario, Yoshi, ike. Thanks!

Mario: his fireballs are annoying Mario likes to rush you down with them and the d-smash or something, you may be able to crouch cancel them but I'm not sure so don't take my word:
Qac are one of the best ways to catch him while he is camping since you can't really camp Mario
For edge guarding Mario is VERY tricky at the ledge with his wall bounce up b but I think a well timed f smash can take care of it not to much information but I hope this helps

 

[MisterNipNips]

i feel like Yoshi is a very overwhelming matchup. His side-B literally has priority of the gods. Only attack that seems to beat it is f smash. And it's a decently unsafe option if they see you are trying to trade/fsmash. A friend of mine has a scary yoshi and even though i win 3/4 times, i feel like im putting in 3x the work he is to get kills / damage racked on.

 

[Jiggle4Life]

i feel like Yoshi is a very overwhelming matchup. His side-B literally has priority of the gods. Only attack that seems to beat it is f smash. And it's a decently unsafe option if they see you are trying to trade/fsmash. A friend of mine has a scary yoshi and even though i win 3/4 times, i feel like im putting in 3x the work he is to get kills / damage racked on.

i played a Yoshi who went back and fourth with his side-b this is what found out
thudershock/neutral-b will perry it and put Yoshi in little lag this is when you rush him reall fast wth the attack of your choice,
a well timed f-smash can work to its just hard
I think neutral air can also perry with it

 

[MisterNipNips]

Hey guys, im back and need some more matchup help! I went to my second local tourney yesterday and placed top 5 out of roughly 45 entrants. I ran into two big issues. One was ivysaur, the other was mewtwo. Ivysaur was really campy with razor leaf/back air and mewtwo shut down any chance i had to go in with his up tilt. I need help on these matchups because i feel like they are near unwinnable. I might just have to go diddy for both of these matchups.

 

[Jiggle4Life]

Hey guys, im back and need some more matchup help! I went to my second local tourney yesterday and placed top 5 out of roughly 45 entrants. I ran into two big issues. One was ivysaur, the other was mewtwo. Ivysaur was really campy with razor leaf/back air and mewtwo shut down any chance i had to go in with his up tilt. I need help on these matchups because i feel like they are near unwinnable. I might just have to go diddy for both of these matchups.

Grays on getting top 5 that's good showing from the unheard of pikachu
Anyways I don't know ivy but I know some mew2
First off if you fair and try to grab or up smash he can nair and escape it allot of ways to get through his big hot boxes you can just qac behind him a up air and to edge guard you have to predict his up... Lots of mew2 like to go onto the stage and if they are to far to get there and have to go to the ledge than just charge a f-smash to hit them on the ledge more than likely he will not sweets pot
As far as more than fundamentals I don't know to much but hope this helps

 

[MisterNipNips]

Grays on getting top 5 that's good showing from the unheard of pikachu
Anyways I don't know ivy but I know some mew2
First off if you fair and try to grab or up smash he can nair and escape it allot of ways to get through his big hot boxes you can just qac behind him a up air and to edge guard you have to predict his up... Lots of mew2 like to go onto the stage and if they are to far to get there and have to go to the ledge than just charge a f-smash to hit them on the ledge more than likely he will not sweets pot
As far as more than fundamentals I don't know to much but hope this helps

Thanks for the quick response. During tournament i did try to go for the qac upairs behind him but he would always interrupt it with up tilt. Literally his response to everything i had was up tilt. I couldnt get around it :/

 

[Jiggle4Life]

Thanks for the quick response. During tournament i did try to go for the qac upairs behind him but he would always interrupt it with up tilt. Literally his response to everything i had was up tilt. I couldnt get around it :/

i would say he was just reading your approaches really well and just happened to use up-tilt to counter

 

[Paradoxium]

Thanks for the quick response. During tournament i did try to go for the qac upairs behind him but he would always interrupt it with up tilt. Literally his response to everything i had was up tilt. I couldnt get around it :/

when you QaC at m2 he has enough time to react with an utilt.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I heard recently, the MU is really up in pika's favor in melee. Thoughts?

 

[Scuba Steve]

I heard recently, the MU is really up in pika's favor in melee. Thoughts?

Mewtwo also sucked ballz in Melee

 

[MisterNipNips]

when you QaC at m2 he has enough time to react with an utilt.

That's what i'm saying. I feel like this matchup is 7:3 if not 8:2 in mewtwos favor easily.

 

[Scuba Steve]

It's a bit too soon to say that the match-up is that much in Mewtwo's favor yet, if at all. If you want to watch the best take on this specific match-up, watch how Axe handles Kaos's Mewtwo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjbKWsEBaBo

 

[MisterNipNips]

It's a bit too soon to say that the match-up is that much in Mewtwo's favor yet, if at all. If you want to watch the best take on this specific match-up, watch how Axe handles Kaos's Mewtwo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjbKWsEBaBo

True, Thanks for the video btw.

 

[Paradoxium]

That's what i'm saying. I feel like this matchup is 7:3 if not 8:2 in mewtwos favor easily.

Disjoints that keep opponents out have always been a big weakness for pikachu, and m2 in particular has a very good anti air game. Against characters like that you gotta really work on your dash dances and weaves, and always mix it up. If you try to just rush them down you will get shut down pretty easily, Pikachus moves get beat outright against characters with huge disjoints. There are ways to get in on mew2, you just have to be patient enough to find them.

I don't think the match-up is unwinnable, but i think it is very difficult. Like its very hard to get in on m2 and m2 has a really good combo game on Pikachu.