Pikachu Match-Up Discussion

[Scuba Steve]

I do agree that the match-up is difficult, but I think it's important to note the tools that Pikachu has to help him out in the match-up as well as his weaknesses in it. Pikachu's vertical kill ability with upsmash, upsmash -> Thunder, and uptilt -> Thunder allow Pikachu to score much earlier kills on Mewtwo than many other characters who have to deal with killing him off the side because of his very good recovery and buffed weight. Pikachu also has an easier time dealing with Mewtwo's teleport antics and hover antics better than some other characters. Granted, this is probably because I main Ganon and have only started picking up Pikachu as a serious secondary several weeks ago, but dealing with what I guess could be called hover shield pressure is much easier as Pikachu. Here's an example of what I'm talking about. Basically the Mewtwo is hovering behind your shield, usually out of a teleport, to avoid getting grabbed, but during his hover he can also harass your shield with aerials. Ganon doesn't really have any answers to this besides rolling because of his poor OoS options, but Pikachu can use his upair OoS to get a combo started. Pikachu also has an easier time getting back to stage against Mewtwo than most other characters because of his godlike recovery. Edgeguarding is a strong point of Mewtwo's game and having the ability to get around that helps a ton.

TL;DR
Still a hard match-up because of Mewtwo's tail, but Pikachu has a lot of things that can help him out in this match-up

 

[JakieWinks]

Pika vs Ivy?? Spacing game on ivy annoys me so much

 

[MisterNipNips]

Pika vs Ivy?? Spacing game on ivy annoys me so much

I have the same issue man. Ivy is not a fun matchup for pikachu. That bair shuts down alot of your options it sucks. I've asked for info/help on this matchup and didn't get anyone to respond

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

I've played an incredibly good Ivy plenty of times, but he's so much better than me in general that I don't have a lot I can say. Just be conscious of where his solarbeam could hit you (you should never be above him at a certain angle) and try to interrupt his combos with dtilt or ftilt. Usmash is probably a really good killing move here. Use QAC wisely as I'm fairly sure he can easily hit you out of it with one of his vines if you spam it too much.

I find that, in general, it's best to play as the character you have the most trouble against for a while. This lets you learn their strong areas and weak areas and allows you to capitalize on this in future matches. I've heard people say Yoshi is hard for Pika but I used to play Yoshi occasionally in Melee, and due to that experience I have zero trouble with Yoshis.

Hope this helps you out!

 

[Cubelarooso]

I actually think it's better to stay near the Solar Roadway, alert and uncommitted. This way they might get antsy and waste it while you can avoid (and possibly punish it), which is particularly useful against Ivys that don't go for/get many bulb attacks.
Remember that at certain percents it can even be a waste if it hits. At regular killing percents, they've traded a scarce resource for a forthcoming one (BTW, DI out if you know you'll die either way, to disallow them extra time from the star KO). Below around 35%, it's not so great at killing, so they've traded it for less damage and positioning than a regular combo, although who's favored by this depends on your ability to recover against that Ivysaur.
Like I said though, all this is player-dependent. Some Ivysaurs will continually get full charges out of two-hit combos, in which case it's better for you if they hold it, so they can't use Synthesize during downtime and they can mess themselves up by forgetting they can't Synthesize.

 

[Paradoxium]

The Ivy match-up is free for Pikachu. It is so easy to punish Ivy's end lag on all of her moves, and she's at perfect combo weight for pikachu. Her up b is also predictable enough for you to jump down and gimp her. I honestly think Ivy struggles against pikachu.

Edit* ok the match-up isn't exactly "free" but I think it is in Pikachu's favor.

 

[Jiggle4Life]

bowser matchup, I know its in pikas favor but what do you guys think?

 

[JakieWinks]

bowser matchup, I know its in pikas favor but what do you guys think?

Pika seems to be at least relatively good on all the heavies. Down smash is godly and you can pretty much run circles around them if you're proficient with QaCing. Just don't get hit by an f-smash

 

[Rubix.]

I've played an incredibly good Ivy plenty of times, but he's so much better than me in general that I don't have a lot I can say. Just be conscious of where his solarbeam could hit you (you should never be above him at a certain angle) and try to interrupt his combos with dtilt or ftilt. Usmash is probably a really good killing move here. Use QAC wisely as I'm fairly sure he can easily hit you out of it with one of his vines if you spam it too much.

I find that, in general, it's best to play as the character you have the most trouble against for a while. This lets you learn their strong areas and weak areas and allows you to capitalize on this in future matches. I've heard people say Yoshi is hard for Pika but I used to play Yoshi occasionally in Melee, and due to that experience I have zero trouble with Yoshis.

Hope this helps you out!

I think the reason people have so much trouble against yoshi is because of match up unfamiliarity. Not knowing how to fight yoshi makes the match up much more difficult than what it really is. My friend mains a solid yoshi and after playing countless matches against him I think it's safe to say that the match up is relatively even maybe just slightly in yoshi's favor. When fighting yoshi you want to be very VERY cautious when approaching. Avoid getting grabbed at all costs. Recklessly jumping in with a nair will lead to you to getting pivot grabbed and eating massive percent from up airs. When going for a grab on yoshi make sure that you WILL get the grab or he can down-b you to avoid it and punish you, setting up a juggle and/or killing you. Also be aware of when you are in yoshi's neutral b zone. It pretty much outranges everything pika has. Yoshi can also b-reverse it in the air and b-reverse from the edge onto the stage so be prepared for that since that seems to catch everyone off guard not just pika mains. Same goes for his down smash especially at the edge. You must sweet spot or you'll find yourself losing stocks as early as 30 percent from a failed attempt at sweet spotting. In this match up I believe you should abuse t-jolt all game. It forces yoshi's arial approaches which is exactly where you want him, above you. Just watch out for any incoming down-bs from yoshi because it kills early but is easily punishable. Another pro for using t-jolt is that it clashes with yoshi's side-b so it can stop his side- b approach. Thunder-jolt has also broken me out of yoshi's grab/neutral b many times during the animation where yoshi is bringing you in with his tongue, which can be life saving in dire situations. Plus it works wonders by the edge. Up air is really good as well since you'll be forcing yoshi to approach from above you. It sets up easy combos and the pseudo spike it has can gimp yoshi if he's lost his jump. I also find QAC really useful in this match up. QACs help cover a lot of space, which you will need against yoshi because of his ridiculous range, and also ease approaching. One last tip is to not challenge yoshi when he's juggling you. Good yoshis know how to abuse their super armor so they can eat up your down air and continue the juggle or finish your stock with an up air. Just try your best to get back on the ground before you engage again. Ultimately, I feel like pika must work harder to obtain kills in this match up due to the fact that it's hard to get a kill move in on yoshi. Yoshi on the other hand just needs to wait until you do something stupid, grab you, and up air you to death. The thing with this matchup is that pika needs to be aggressive and needs to keep pressuring yoshi while still staying safe and avoiding getting grabbed. Both have ways of killing each other early though which is why i find the matchup to be around 55:45 in yoshi's favor.

 

[4letterword]

^I agree with Rubix about Yoshi. My good buddy/training partner is also a solid Yoshi main (shoutout to Damp), so I've played this matchup countless times. You outcamp Yoshi thanks to thunderjolt. Thankfully, Pikachu is fast enough that he can't outcamp you with eggs, so you have to play perfect, patient waiting game.

Like Rubix said, don't be reckless or you will get grabbed because Yoshi's dash grab is ridiculous (long-ish range and the grab box stays out longer than you expect). If you get grabbed, he will down throw chaingrab you for a long time, and your only hope of getting out is to mix up your DI, but even that isn't guaranteed to get you out. For example, I like to DI up and away for the first few throws and then DI horizontally behind Yoshi, so he keeps dash grabbing in the same direction and whiffs.

Unfortunately, upsmash isn't as strong as you would hope because of Yoshi's heavy weight. You should follow every solid upsmash with thunder if you want to kill vertically.

A good Yoshi will be better at edgeguarding PIkachu than you might expect. He can set up a rising nair wall and continually knock out of your recovery if you try to recover high, so go low and sweetspot the ledge. Yoshi can use his aerials below the ledge too, but you should be fast enough that he (hopefully) can't catch you. In my experience, Yoshi won't try to go deep for edgeguards because they know that a) their recovery isn't amazing below the ledge b) your recovery is far superior.

All that said, Yoshi is certainly not impossible for Pikachu, but I would also agree that is slightly in Yoshi's favor. Outcamp, outspace, and wait for your perfect opportunity. In general, I tend to poke and make my escape to rack up damage for a sweet high percentage smash kill later. As long as you are smart and don't get grabbed, you should at least go even with Yoshi.

 

[Rubix.]

How do you deal with lucario? I know he doesn't have many approach options and that you should crouch cancel a lot but other than that I feel like I'm going in blindly whenever I must face a lucario.

 

[4letterword]

How do you deal with lucario? I know he doesn't have many approach options and that you should crouch cancel a lot but other than that I feel like I'm going in blindly whenever I must face a lucario.

I'm not super experienced with the Lucario matchup, so take this with a grain of salt. But I would say that you're way faster than he is, so out-maneuver him and don't get hit. I'm assuming any decent Lucario will know his auto-cancel combo series, so any hit from him will probably lead to a lot of damage. That's also why I would say you should avoid crouch-cancelling. If he hits you, I'm sure he's already planning on comboing you, so you won't be able to react faster than his next auto-cancelled attack hits you.

I would also say be careful with your recovery especially if you're thinking about recovering high. Lucario can spike you with side b in the air, and recovering high will leave you vulnerable to that. He can also go decently deep for edgeguards/gimps, so just be cognizant of that.

Of course, this is somewhat speculative (based on friendlies with one Lucario at locals and trying to learn lucario a while ago). Maybe someone with more matchup experience can give some more advice.

 

[Jiggle4Life]

Anybody know toon link matchup and willing to help?

 

[Rubix.]

Anybody know toon link matchup and willing to help?

Idk much about this MU but I guess I know enough to be proficient at it. Against Toon Link you want to use a lot of nairs and try to space it so that you hit toon link directly above him. This will allow you to beat any of his OOS grounded up-b's or OOS nairs etc. Pikas dair works well for this same reason. He also seems fairly easy to combo. When you have toon link in a juggle be wary of his dair. Either make sure he's in hitstun, come at him from the sides, or if you want to put on your prediction pants you can even bait the dair directly above you and thunder (works well on platforms). Toon Links use their up air in a similar fashion to their dair so be cautious when you're directly above him. QACs don't seem very useful here since so many of Toon Links moves beat it. It's still a great mixup though so just make sure you use it sparingly and wisely when an opening presents itself. Toon Link has guaranteed follow ups after a grab so try to avoid getting grabbed. They usually try to trap you in your shield with all their projectiles. So at high percents be aware of this set up. You must avoid his bair too, especially at lower percents. It combos into several other bairs depending on your DI and can set up an aerial up b kill. The last bit of advice I can give is edguarding. Toon link has excellent recovery options. If done right he can glide toss bombs and/or up b into them and make it back from anywhere on the map. If your opponent is trying this try to interrupt his tosses and up bs with thunderjolts. Toon Link will also opt to recover with his z-air if he's close enough, so thunderjolts that travel along the side of the stage will force him to get up or to up b if he doesn't reel in his chain. Like I said before down air beats his up b if spaced properly so thats another edguarding option. Ive only faced one toon link ever so thats all I have to offer on this MU but he was a top toon link so I learned quite a bit from the matches we had.

 

[FEAR977]

How well does Pikachu do on Captain Falcon and Falco?

 

[Jiggle4Life]

How well does Pikachu do on Captain Falcon and Falco?

Pikachu beats falcon in neutral game, buy if you get hit pika is the perfect weight and he is going to combo you hard. that's the just
I would say 40/60 for falcon

you can combo falco really well but he wins neutral normally I would say 35/65 his favor

 

[Rubix.]

How well does Pikachu do on Captain Falcon and Falco?

Against falcon Jiggle4LIfe is right you should beat him in the neutral game, and don't get comboed. Pika does extremely well against Falcon if you know the MU. DI correctly out of his grabs and hits so you don't get kneed. Another thing tech roll A LOT. Missed techs and techs in place will have you eating knees for breakfast. I find it safer to tech roll into him once you condition him to think you're going to tech roll away but it depends on the situation. He's easily comboed by you as well so as long as you've learned your fast faller combos well you'll punish just as hard (for falco too). Both Falco and Falcon have terrible recoveries, so your main focus should be comboing them off stage or throwing them offstage if you're close to the edge. Their gimpability gives pika a huge advantage on them offstage so when an opportunity presents itself throw them offstage and go for the early kill. The fact that pika can get some sort of punish even if he misses the gimp gives both of them a hard time since they usually can't get back for free. Against falco learning to power shield lasers is definitely recommended. Also, when you're stuck his pressure you can either time an up air OOS/downsmash or roll. Falco vs Pikachu can be a little more debatable. I find myself stuck in my shield more than I'd like to but the fact that you can gimp him so easily makes me question who's favor it's in.

 

[Comet7]

What's the Pikachu vs Ness matchup like?

 

[Jiggle4Life]

What's the Pikachu vs Ness matchup like?

You gotta get him in the air, he beats you in the neutral game but once u star juggling him you kinda wreck him. So b cuz of this stages like battlefield are better than fd to prolong your juggle. He is also really light so upsmash kills quick. As long as u don't get hit by pk fire ness doesn't Combo pika to hard gl hope this helps

 

[Rubix.]

I'm having trouble with DK. Where exactly are you suppose to DI his cargo throw after he jumps? It seems no matter where I DI I get f-aired. Any other general tips on the matchup would also be appreciated.

 

[Jiggle4Life]

I'm having trouble with DK. Where exactly are you suppose to DI his cargo throw after he jumps? It seems no matter where I DI I get f-aired. Any other general tips on the matchup would also be appreciated.

U don't DI his cargo up throw u get on your knees and beg him not to do it and hope he has mercy

Real tho I think DI behind is good but I'm not to sure
I would just recommend not getting grabbed

Therefor to not get grabbed camp lol u can CG him to 50% and he doesn't have good oos options as bar as I know so good shield pressure should do you good

If he ever gets off the stage never let him back he is easy to gimp

 

[Rubix.]

U don't DI his cargo up throw u get on your knees and beg him not to do it and hope he has mercy

Real tho I think DI behind is good but I'm not to sure
I would just recommend not getting grabbed

Therefor to not get grabbed camp lol u can CG him to 50% and he doesn't have good oos options as bar as I know so good shield pressure should do you good

If he ever gets off the stage never let him back he is easy to gimp

I might as well just rage quit whenever I get grabbed lol. I know how to fight DK offstage and about the the chain grab but the fact that his jab links into a grab and that he has immense grab range makes it incredibly hard to not get grabbed. I've tried DI-ing back and I still get hit by a f-air. I know there's safe ways to DI but I can't find anyone to tell me exactly in what direction. That thing kills pika so early and because of it I can never keep a lead. Killing DK can sometimes become a problem too if i sit back and camp. If he holds on to one stock he quickly racks up damage. Also keep in mind I'm only having trouble with the top two DKs in SOCAL. They're DKs are at a much higher level than the other DKs down here who don't give me nearly as much trouble. They're DKs are much much scarier to approach .

 

[Cubelarooso]

DK has four cargo throws.
Cargo Fthrow is 65°.
Cargo Bthrow is 65° in the other direction.
Cargo Uthrow is 90°.
Cargo Dthrow is 40°.
Maximal DI is perpendicular to knocback angle, so straight backward or forward for Uthrow. Not enough experience with the matchup to know if you should be trying to go behind or above his Fair, but a mix of both might be best. You might also base your decision off what his own momentum is when he throws you.
If you're still getting hit, Fair is 45° and Uair is 90°.

 

[Jiggle4Life]

DK has four cargo throws.
Cargo Fthrow is 65°.
Cargo Bthrow is 65° in the other direction.
Cargo Uthrow is 90°.
Cargo Dthrow is 40°.
Maximal DI is perpendicular to knocback angle, so straight backward or forward for Uthrow. Not enough experience with the matchup to know if you should be trying to go behind or above his Fair, but a mix of both might be best. You might also base your decision off what his own momentum is when he throws you.
If you're still getting hit, Fair is 45° and Uair is 90°.

oh no numbers lol I havent played a good DK in awhile I would just say mix your DI up Pikachu might even be able to wiggle out of hit stun and up air or nair

 

[Rubix.]

Ok thanks guys imma try getting out of his forward air follow up by using this info in training mode with a friend. I'll let you know what I find as soon as possible

 

[Cubelarooso]

Here's a crouch cancel chart.
Also includes knockback armors.
I don't plan to memorize it, but you can if you want.
It could be a helpful review when you know who your next opponent plays.

 

[Choice Scarf]

So random thing I found in the lab, but Thunder (the bolt) can get Yoshi out of double jump armor at 18%. If you manage to force Yoshi offstage and recover low you can b-reverse Thunder edgeguard and Yoshi won't pop upwards if you hit him during the midair jump. Not sure how useful that will be, but at least it's possible to gimp Yoshi relatively early in percent

 

[Psyant]

^ That really works! I know a good Yoshi, so I'll try it next time I play against him if I can get him off stage at low %.

My biggest struggle so far is probably Pit. Anyone got some tips for this MU?

 

[Jiggle4Life]

^ That really works! I know a good Yoshi, so I'll try it next time I play against him if I can get him off stage at low %.

My biggest struggle so far is probably Pit. Anyone got some tips for this MU?

I second this pit is tough some1 tell us how to win

 

[Paradoxium]

Pit can't deal with Pikachu's shield pressure and he is at a good weight to be comboed. His options in the neutral are limited and he can also be gimped when recovering below stage.

But after Pit lands one hit it's pretty much a zero to death auto combo, I honestly don't think it is even possible to di out of it

 

[Kaysick]

What are your guy's thoughts against Charizard, Lucario, DK, and GnW? I've been playing tons of Roy and Pika compliments my playstyle while closing in certain MUs that I don't like.

 

[Paradoxium]

What are your guy's thoughts against Charizard, Lucario, DK, and GnW? I've been playing tons of Roy and Pika compliments my playstyle while closing in certain MUs that I don't like.

Charizard is free, hes too fat.

You can CC a lot of Lucarios shenanigans and he is at a very good combo weight. The match up should be in pikachu's favor.

Dk is in Pika's favor, but not by much. Its probably very even. Dk has a lot of range and super good combos. But Pikachu can go ham on him and gimp him pretty well.

GnW is tricky, and I haven't played very many good GnW players. Its hard to get in on him with all of his disjoints but from what I've heard Pikachu actually give GnW trouble due to hit air and ground mobility.

 

[Psyant]

I think Pikachu has a slight advantage on DK. His range can be annoying, especially on his tilts which are fast and can shut down approaches, but you can avoid getting grabbed better than most and he doesn't actually combo Pikachu that hard, surprisingly. You can put a lot of pressure on him and just generally stop him doing anything. Dsmash is your friend, as it is against every big character, and uair semispikes are easy to land when he Up Bs and are almost always a death sentence for DK. You can also juggle him really hard as he's big, heavy and falls quite fast. His nair beats yours though, so don't try to trade with it if you see it coming. Also watch out for his crouch cancel down tilt as it's pretty godly. Crossing up DK with nairs is the way to go to avoid that and getting shield grabbed.

I've struggled with Lucario as the ones I've played are much better players than me, but CC Dsmash worked well. Trying to shield his stuff with Pikachu's crappy shield and grab range is pointless, so avoid his attacks instead and crouch cancel when you can't dodge. You can beat him in the neutral but once he manages to start something you'll eat a huge combo if the Lucario is good.

 

[PandaPanda Senketsu]

First time posting here but I've been a long time Pikachu main, I need help with a few match ups.

First, I need help against Metaknight, I have no idea what to against this character. I mainly need help in the neutral, I haven't played against enough meta knights to know all the details. I need to know what moves I should be using in the neutral against him, and what I can punish meta knight for in the neutral. I also need to know what metaknights should do in the neutral so I can counter it.

Next I need help with Falco, I don't really know how to go in on him. I get pinned down by lasers too much.

Next I need help with captain Falcon, I really have no idea how I should approach this match up. I just sorta wait around until they make a mistake and either combo him to death or gimp him. Even though I usually win in this match up it is mainly because my opponents aren't that good, I feel like if I was against better falcon players I would probably lose. I'm really lost when it comes to this match up lol I just wing it.

I also need help with the Fox match up, how do you even approach or punish this character.

 

[Cubelarooso]

Meta Knight can't clank Jolts; the one time I played one I did fairly well just zapping him until he was exposed.
You pretty much just gotta learn to powershield lasers.
You got the right idea with Falcon, that's really all there is.

 

[Linux_F_Smash]

I have a hard time fighting Ike does anyone have tips for this match-up?

 

[Usopp]

I also would like some tips on the Ike MU

 

[Jiggle4Life]

I also would like some tips on the Ike MU

spam thunderjolts so that ike cant use his dumb quickdraw... then you will win

 

[Comet7]

thunderjolts annoy ike a lot. you can also wait until he does something laggy or stupid and then do standard pika stuff. oh and don't roll into 3 f smashes like me. there isn't much else to it.

 

[Cubelarooso]

I just learned Zamus's paralyzation puts you in the air, so Smashville/Dreamland can be an amusing counterpick against her. Specifically, if she shoots you on the platform/before wind and starts charging Fsmash, she might get moved out of range.
Now that I think of it, stages like Smashville & Skyworld could be good couterpicks against tetherers, since the overhanging platforms don't do much for their recoveries. Additionally, they're not vulnerable to Zamus's Usmash or Up-B.