Pikachu > Kirby

[Nybb]

I agree with Daedatheus and Nixxxon, Kirby is still really good at high levels. It's just that he is a giant douche and everybody hates him, so he doesn't get much top-level exposure. Pika / Fox / Falcon matches (and anybody else) are so much more interesting to watch and to play. With other characters, it's like, "wow, nice combo bro!" but with Kirby it's like, "wow, the fourth time you f-smashed them off the edge at 0% and then drilled their recovery was way cooler than the other three!" Don't get me wrong, the startegies Kirbies employ are quite effective and he is definitely second best in the game, but everybody who takes the game seriously realizes he's an ***.

 

[Fireblaster]

but with Kirby it's like, "wow, the fourth time you f-smashed them off the edge at 0% and then drilled their recovery was way cooler than the other three!"

This doesn't happen. Ever.

Also, you people are highly overrating kirby. At higher levels of play he's quite hard to play as.

 

[craiigg]

lol kirby can get gimped so easy, kirby doesn't scare me at all..
more good foxes or pikas..

 

[UnF-air]

Kirby’s glairing weakness is his Uair. Look at the other high tier character’s Uairs: Fox, Pika, Cap’n (see a trend?). Aerial combos are huge in this game, and at the higher levels of game play kirby’s drills + Bair/Nair (horizontal knockback), although powerful, can’t match the effectiveness of precisely executed aerial combos.

This combined with the spammable Fsmash and incredibly lame Dair-Utilt combo is why I believe Kirby is given little respect in the eyes of many.

 

[asianaussie]

Uh...Kirby is just cheap and easy-to-use. He has a massive recovery and powerful smashes, so noobs find him attractive. However, he is too basic. He's not fun to play as. Pika has better priority, an easier time comboing and maintaining combos, is faster in general and has a non-linear recovery to work with.

Kirby doesn't have to combo to be good. The nature of his attacks (high damage, easy to hit with) mean he can just skirt around, land some hits, then smash to kill. This is precisely why noobs love him. However, to be great (not good), Kirby needs mindgames and maybe a wall.

 

[SpongeBathBill]

^No Fence of Pain in 64?

 

[Daedatheus]

The main problem with Kirby at high levels is his aerial speed IMO, he just doesn't have the same mobility and maneuverability of Fox and Pika.

Also he is super-vulnerable on the top of his head, so gimping him low to the stage is viable.

 

[Lawrencelot]

The main problem with Kirby at high levels is his aerial speed IMO, he just doesn't have the same mobility and maneuverability of Fox and Pika.

Also he is super-vulnerable on the top of his head, so gimping him low to the stage is viable.

This
10char

 

[NixxxoN]

Kirby can be an extremely annoying char to play against... ask MATTS!
gay camping + utilt spamming kirbys do really own and suck at the same time

 

[Nybb]

but with Kirby it's like, "wow, the fourth time you f-smashed them off the edge at 0% and then drilled their recovery was way cooler than the other three!"

This doesn't happen. Ever.

Also, you people are highly overrating kirby. At higher levels of play he's quite hard to play as.

Obviously I was exaggerating a bit, but the fact that Kirby's ridiculous u-tilt, b-air, and d-air make it so easy for him to gimp keeps him in second place IMO. Obviously he doesn't even touch Pika, but the main thing I was trying to get across was that many people just pass him off as garbage at high levels, which is not true. Just because many noobs use him, does not mean he is a noob-only character.

 

[Vorguen]

Kirby has probably the lowest learning curve of all Smash 64 characters as well, I have learned.

He's a joke to master.

 

[Fireblaster]

Obviously I was exaggerating a bit, but the fact that Kirby's ridiculous u-tilt, b-air, and d-air make it so easy for him to gimp keeps him in second place IMO. Obviously he doesn't even touch Pika, but the main thing I was trying to get across was that many people just pass him off as garbage at high levels, which is not true. Just because many noobs use him, does not mean he is a noob-only character.

It doesn't change the fact that Kirby isn't easy to play when you're playing against actual good players. I find him harder than playing with fox or falcon.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

In my opinion, Kirby is the easiest character to learn and to play well with. But Kirby actually does take skill to use. If all a Kirby player could do was wait on the side and spam up-tilt, he would be predictable, and anyone with a projectile or with a decent amount of skill would destroy Kirby. There is more to Kirby than just up-tilt spamming.

 

[Krevin]

TL;DR the rest of the posts in this thread.

Pikachu's recovery is quicker
Pikachu's vertical recovery is far superior
Pikachu's horizontal recovery is comparable to Kirby's, so long as Kirby doesn't have Jiggs' punch.
Pikachu's air-game is slightly better (due mostly to quicker aerial movement)
Pikachu's ground-game is significantly better
Pikachu's match-up with a character is typically better than Kirby's (Ness, Falcon, Jigglypuff, and Samus are the only exceptions I can think of)


EDIT: And Kirby is by far the easiest character to learn in SSB64. You don't have to learn to cope with any of his weaknesses, because there's no way around the few weaknesses he has, and you don't have to worry about going too far off the stage when chasing your enemy because he has so many extra jumps. Of course he's still gonna take skill, but that's because it's smash, and you can't beat good players without mindgames and at least a little bit of tech skill.

 

[Cryptic C62]

Kirby knocks Pikachu off.
Pikachu: *zip* *zip*
Safe.

Pikachu knocks Kirby off.
Kirby: Up+B.
Pikachu: Fsmash. (no timing required)
Win.

There's your answer.

 

[Dr_Strangelove]

something about an incredibly lame Dair-Utilt combo

Rofl.
Learn to tech-roll.

Pikachu's recovery is much harder to predict, although it IS interceptable.
People seem to think that pikachu is completely invincible when using his up-B, and that just isn't true.

Pikachu is much faster in the air.
Pikachu has u-air -> u-air -> finishing aerial of choice combo when taking someone off the edge.
Kirby is screwed when his jumps have depleted, whereas pikachu still has a fairly decent chance of survival.
Pikachu has a superior grab, and one of the best back-throws in the game.
Other stuff that has been mentioned in the thread...

 

[NixxxoN]

Kirby is DEAD when recovering from a low position. Kirby's weakness is the uair and generally when attacking up while in the air.

 

[Vorguen]

Yeah Kirby coming from below sucks. Unless.... you just drilled someone and he is plummeting to his death.


lawl

 

[Deleted member]

Kirby has probably the lowest learning curve of all Smash 64 characters as well, I have learned.

He's a joke to master.

Falcon is easily the easiest person to learn in this game

 

[Vorguen]

I found Falcon to be significantly harder than Kirby.

 

[Spire]

Of course Kirby eats Pikachu. It wouldn't make sense the other way.

 

[Vorguen]

Well.. That would make sense, except Pikachu can still "recover" from it.


lawl

 

[ballin4life]

Falcon is easily the easiest person to learn in this game

To be decent or to be really good? Of course anyone can do upsmash x 2 -> uair x 100 -> upb but most people don't do complicated combos with fair nair etc.

 

[Nixernator]

To be decent or to be really good? Of course anyone can do upsmash x 2 -> uair x 100 -> upb but most people don't do complicated combos with fair nair etc.

Because the Upsmash>Uair need no other moves 90% of the time. With his run speed and dash grab game, Uair chains are so easy to set up from a bunch of attacks.

 

[Daedatheus]

To be decent or to be really good? Of course anyone can do upsmash x 2 -> uair x 100 -> upb but most people don't do complicated combos with fair nair etc.

Falcon isn't good just because of his awesome combos. He has the best speed in the game, a grab game that leads to combos, and ******** dashdance that is hugely useful.

Not to mention his taunt canceling is the most entertaining

 

[Nixernator]

Oh and his spike which spikes at his head pretty much.

 

[Daedatheus]

Oh and his spike which spikes at his head pretty much.

I find now that his bair and uair are the best edgeguarding tools Falcon has. They can be pretty evil to your opponent.

But yeah his spike is awesome for combo finishers or techchases etc.

 

[Dr_Strangelove]

This forum is probably the best I've ever seen at going completely off topic, and then having an in depth discussion on said topic. :'D

 

[ballin4life]

Because the Upsmash>Uair need no other moves 90% of the time. With his run speed and dash grab game, Uair chains are so easy to set up from a bunch of attacks.

I agree with this if its against light or floaty characters. But if you're playing falcon dittos it helps a lot to be able to throw in fairs and more complicated stuff in your combos. Also, there is more strategy to uair combos than one might think. Some times you can get an extra uair if you plan correctly.

Falcon isn't good just because of his awesome combos. He has the best speed in the game, a grab game that leads to combos, and ******** dashdance that is hugely useful.

Not to mention his taunt canceling is the most entertaining

Agreed but still he's only like the 4th best character. Kirby's recovery is wayyyyyyyyy better. Anyone that knows how to edgeguard will have a chance against falcon because his recovery is the easiest to gimp.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

This forum is probably the best I've ever seen at going completely off topic, and then having an in depth discussion on said topic. :'D

It is because you are on the ssb64 forums

other areas stay on topic. :D

 

[Vorguen]

I'm pretty sure Ness's and Link's recoveries are worse than Falcon's.


They're so terrible.

... >.>

 

[Seala]

Links is worse for sure, Ness's recovery is kinda situational... it has it's good sides (it can recover quite some distance, and in almost any direction) but it has it's obvious flaws.

 

[Vorguen]

Yeah, you can just jump into his PK thunder and it's over.

 

[Superstar]

DownB on edge is sex.

I don't really get much how it works or to what range, but I managed to insta sweetspot a normally failed recovery with it once. XD

 

[Daedatheus]

I don't really get much how it works or to what range, but I managed to insta sweetspot a normally failed recovery with it once. XD

It just increases Ness's edge-grabbing range for some reason, so if you still have a 2nd jump, rather than jump onto the stage or slowly grab the edge, just get up close from low to the edge and hit down+b... Ness snaps onto the edge.

The spacing for it just takes a few tries in training mode or something. It's very useful because even Ness's second jump is pretty gimpable.

I figure you know all this already Supe but I thought I'd type it out for others as well.

Haha seems like we've gone off-topic again

 

[Vorguen]

I've never been able to pull it off.

 

[Daedatheus]

I've never been able to pull it off.

TRAINING MODE TIME!

Seriously, it's pretty simple, and a very important thing to learn if you use Ness at all. In some situations it's absolutely clutch!

 

[Kefit]

re: Kirby vs Pikachu

I was planning to discuss this in the matchup thread, but that seems to be dead so here goes:

Pika's uair hurts Kirby bad. I get annoyed when people blindly throw out Pika's uair as a reason for his superiority in matchups, but this is one where it is really true. Kirby has a combination of being light-weight, not floaty, and slooooooooooooooooooowwwwww that make him very vulnerable to uair chains starting on stray uairs.

Kirby's got two main answers to this: dair from above and bair spam. bair annoys Pika, but it can't really be chained into anything most of the time. However, Pika has a very difficult time escaping drill shenanigans once they start, so dair can be an effective weapon if employed by a campy Kirby.

Pika's main answer to Kirby's dair is to put a roof over this head in the form of platforms. When he can do this, he drastically reduces the effectiveness of Kirby's deadliest weapon in the matchup, and from this gains the advantage. Thus Pika has a fairly clear advantage on stages like Dreamland.

However, without these roofs the matchup becomes pretty even. I might even give the advantage to Kirby depending upon how camp friendly the stage is.

 

[NixxxoN]

Falcon is easily the easiest person to learn in this game

Kirby is the easiest on noob level, falcon is the easiest to learn on mid level.

 

[Superstar]

Actually, Falcon was one of the hardest for me to learn.

I was a strange case. Now he's the easiest for me to USE though.