Pikachu Information Dump

soju

SD God
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#1
Decided to scan the whole Ask About Pikachu thread and extract as much useful stuff as I can from it since I've been realizing all the stuff asked on the thread has pretty much been covered now. It was quite interesting seeing the development of this thread in its 2680+ posts and seeing my how my view on pikachu has changed since I first started posting on it. It's not in any sort of order because I accomplished this in around 4 hours so I apologize for that, also I only took from the Ask About Pikachu thread and not the Matchup or Pikachat thread. Hopefully this sparks a bit of life in the pretty much dead pikachu boards.


Basically, before you ask Axe or N64 a question on their boards, check here because its probably already been covered

[COLLAPSE="Axe Stuff"]alright, well let's see...

pikachu's uair has 4 different hitboxes that effect the trajectory of your opponent.

if your opponent is directly behind you and you hit him with a uair, he'll be sent almost strait up, slightly backwards. (assuming they don't DI)

if you hit them with about a 45 degree angle behind and above pikachu, then they'll be sent backwards/downwards (kind of in the same trajectory as Fox's shine, except the distance they travel depends on the damage they have, whereas fox's shine has fixed knockback) in what you could call a "reverse tailspike".

if they are directly above you/slightly above and in front of you, then you'll perform the regular forward tailspike. it's the same trajectory as the reverse tailspike, only they go forward instead. this is VERY useful for finishing off opponents and gimping

if they are directly in front of you, then they'll be sent in somewhat of an arc up and over your head, being sent behind you. at lower percents on lightweights, you can combo this into an upsmash if you run backwards right after this hits

The dair has the best priority with someone directly under you. if you fall with a dair, it'll at least trade with most hits. in my opinion, it's very usefull for edgeguarding. for instance, if someone is recovering kinda low, then you can drop down with a dair, and their recovery will trade with your dair.

Dair, Nair, and Bair all have the same damage given (i think). whenever i use Bair, i use it as a last hit from a combo when my nair/dair are already stale. i just use it to give a little more damage, but from my experience, there's nothing that can combo out of your Bair

as far as using the quick attack offensively from different angles off the edge, that's just something i like to do. this technique isn't necessary, so you really don't have to worry about it. i personally love using it though =) but i haven't seen too many others use it. this technique isn't necessary.

try using a rising uair out of shield. this (i'm pretty sure) is pikachu's best option out of shield a majority of the time. as a fox player, think of it as a shine out of shield. it can stop pillaring falcos or any other kind of shield pressure most of the time. this is something VERY useful. when i do it, i press up on the control stick then press A, but that's just me. if you hit someone behind you with your uair, you can combo them. you should be able to find out combos with this through experience. you can pretty much do anything out of a rising uair if you hit them upwards. i personally love using uair -> dair, but anything else will work. it also depends if you're fighting a fastfaller or not. just mess around with it

as far as throws go, with MOST characters, a Uthrow will usually lead to another guaranteed hit. against light characters like marth, you can Uthrow -> nair/uair. against fox/falco/falcon, you can either chaingrab them with Uthrows, or do Uthrow -> up smash. Uthrow and Bthrow can combo into an ariel if they DI towards you at mid/high percents, but if you're looking for a guaranteed hit, Uthrow is good. if you'd like, you can also Dthrow and tech chase, kinda like falcon.

i hope all this info helps :p[/COLLAPSE]
[COLLAPSE="TDK Samurais Sheik Tips"]yea, don't feel bad, shiek is all pika's worst matchup, but I agree with n64 that it is exagerated.

Some advice I can give you off the top of my head

1. fight near the ledge on big levels. This is the one matchup where I like yoshis because I get impatient and fight in the middle, but she can't chaingrab me as far.

2. Always, always, always DI chaingrabs off the stage. Some people get the mentallity that they can trick shiek by going back and forth and mixing it up. They don't realize how easy it is for shiek to chaingrab out of reaction. A good shiek will get you every time. But if you DI off the stage, then even though your off stage, chainbrabing has stopped.

3. edgegaurding shiek isn't like edgegaurding most chars. Her upb makes her invincible for some time so you can't hit her, just hang on the ledge and keep your invincibility, and then one of 2 things will happen, she'll go for the ledge and you be there, or she'll go for the stage, in which case just tap up and upsmash that ****.
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Axe Up-B Ledgehog Info"]
anyways, about the up-b to the edge...

basically, you CAN jump if you want to, but it's not necessary. HOWEVER, it IS necessary if you want to sweetspot when you're standing closer to the edge

if you practice enough, while you're standing on the stage, you can grab the edge (sweetspot the edge) by using your up b. so for example...

if you're on the left or right side of the stage, and you want to grab the edge, just do the first zip of the up-b so you go off the edge, then have the second zip go diagonally downwards towards the stage, so you grab the edge. it's VERY important that you let go of Down on the control stick, because if you keep holding down after the second zip, you will NOT grab the edge

it's kinda hard at first, because immediately after pikachu does the second zip, you have to let go of the control stick or you might bypass the edge. it just takes practice.

also....

the closer you are to the edge, the higher you have to jump before you do your up-b. so if you're very far from the edge, don't jump at all. if you're like about a wavedash's distance away, you should jump about the height of a shorthop before you start your up-b. it IS possible to sweetspot when you're in that position without jumping, but you have to do the 2nd zip at an angle that's almost horizontally backwards, but slightly downwards, and it's pretty hard to pull off. i usually just jump instead so i can do the second zip at a 45 degree angle downwards to grab the edge. just practice, and you'll get it[/COLLAPSE]


[COLLAPSE="TDK's Above Opponent Situational Tips"]well that is nice you can do those things with pichu, but as faith said pointed out, with pika being above an enemy is scary, a couple suggestions I will throw out are

1. air dodge, depending on your situation is where you air dodge, but personally I prefer the air to airdodge down, or diagonally if I'm close enough to hit the ground.

2. up b, doesn't always work honestly, I get punished alot for it unless I do it to a platform where its still punishable unless they had commited their selves to an up air or something

3. ledge cancled up b, axe does this alot, he'll go above the edge, go diagonally out and down, diagonally in and down, he rarely gets punished for that that I see of, but its hard, I usually suicide, but failure is the best teacher so I'm not giving up on it.

4. if I don't feel any of these are a viable option, I will dair or fair depending on the char/move, and pray
[/COLLAPSE]



[COLLAPSE="Pikachu Hitbox Data"]http://phranck.org/HitboxSystem-1.0.17.1.rar

^ Seanson's (incomplete) hitbox system download. Luckily Pikachu was done to completion ^^. You can see the hitboxes for every move of it, including Pikachu's uair. Look at it if you're curious.

Each hitbox is roughly the same size but i got lazyish in my drawing heh.

Edit: Wait, posted this while i was downloading it, had seen it yeeeeears ago. Apparently from this though there's 5 hitboxes? o.O I am confused. Heh...

Double Edit: So here's the pics:

starting animation

first hitbox, pops up

reverse spike

? spike probably

spike

pops up and behind

totally helpless pikachu[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="CCing Pikas Uair"]sry for the double post, but just wanted to say...

after some testing, i came to the conclusion...

pika's Uair CAN be CC'd by any character, but NO character can CC pika's Uair while they are in the middle of doing a move. pikachu's Nair, however, CAN be CC'd, even while your opponent is doing a move

so, in the example of peach, if peach is in her animation of downsmashing, and you hit her with a falling Uair, she will always be sent up in the air. but if you fall with a Nair, she can CC and still downsmash again.

the same goes for every character. if someone is in the middle of an attack when you hit them with your Uair, they cannot CC it, but if they're doing nothing but crouching, then they will CC it

sorry for the misleading assumption[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Toasty's Whiffed Grabbed Options"]Behr - one of the simpler baits, conceptually, in Melee for anyone really [especially against someone who likes to grab and/or shield-grab a LOT] is to full/short hop toward them when they're grounded and waveland backward [or forward through them, depending on how close to them you're landing]

they'll whiff a grab and you're free to punish if possible

good/decent options: running usmash, JC-grab, SH-d/nair, fsmash, running dsmash [meh], dash attack [meh], f/d-tilt [if you feel it's your only appropriate option quick enough to hit before their whiff-lag is over]


you can make this work with like...medium-level spam.

Situations:
- when it can set up a gimp
- when you can 0-death CG a fast-faller [=D]
- when they're at enough damage to be effectively edge-guarded
- when they're at enough damage to die from the appropriate smash attack


non-Pika example so you can at least picture what I'm talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtGR60KRcaA#t=1m50s



Another setup, instead of simply jumping and wavelanding, is to time any aerial so you still have time to waveland...that way if you approach with an aerial, they're more likely to shield and take the bait [picture Doc's SH-bair and how he can still waveland after the bair is complete...or hell even Pika's SH-uair!][/COLLAPSE]



[COLLAPSE="N64 Wavedash Talk"]Wavedashing is mobility. Pikachu already has a lot of mobility as his dash and jump are pretty good, and most of his moves are pretty short (the ones you should be using a lot at least) so he won't be in lag often and will be able to move around more. Wavedashing adds an extra positioning element on top of what he already has with his dash/dashdance and jump. You mainly want to use it to confuse your opponent and create openings. I'll give you a couple examples.

You're half a stage away from your opponent, dash dancing a little in place and looking for a way to approach. Your opponent is, say, marth and he's doing the same. You suddenly dash towards him making it look like you're committing to an approach. Just as you reach fsmash tipper range, you wavedash back. Marth fsmashes expecting to beat your approach options, whiffs because you wavedashed back, and now you can punish this. Any other option you have would have been beaten or easier to spot.

Second example. You and your opponent trade hits in the air near the ledge. You hit the stage and techroll forward ending up a couple pika-length distances from the edge, they fly a little off the stage. Say they're fox/falco and are going to double jump illusion trying to sweetspot the ledge. The only way you can prevent this sweetspot is to down-angle ftilt the ledge. But you're not quite close enough, and if you dash forward you won't be able to ftilt because you're in dash animation! Wavedash forwards instead, ftilt, and kill that silly spacie trying to recover.

Also I haven't even mentioned wavelanding, which I think opens up many options for pika as well. Empty hop forward -> waveland back is a pretty good bait. Wavelanding onto platforms increases pikachu's chasing and combo options, i.e. you get a grab on battlefield on mid percent sheik somehow, uthrow them so that they land on the platform above. They choose to DI away and then tech in place. You jump, waveland towards them, then usmash/grab/do-whatever-you-want.

In thinking about wavedashing, think of it as an extra tool that, when used with your other tools, makes your whole arsenal that much better.[/COLLAPSE]


[COLLAPSE="Axe Fox Tips & Admitting He Is A Bad Black Guy"]haha thanks man, i tried my best ^^ mango's way too freakin good o.O i'm not 100% sure about pound sadly, but i'm probably at about a 50% chance right now



haha yeah... it's smash DI =) the moment the first kick of fox's uair hits you, you just push the control stick upwards. at least, i always try to smash DI it upwards. thanks to this, it makes it SO much easier to fight fox's :)

oh and also as you saw, as soon as the first kick hits you and you smash DI it, when the 2nd one misses, you can fastfall and counterattack with an ariel. VERY useful on fox players that love to uthrow uair



haha well... on fox's that like to DD a bunchload, and it seems like you can never hit them, i always try 1 of 5 things

1) approach with a full jump thunderjolt. many players don't think about doing an ariel through the jolts. whenever they don't know how to counter this, it's AMAZING because you can follow it up with an up smash, a running downsmash, a grab, or a Nair (at least, those are the moves that i always use to follow it up).

2) Short hop at them like you're about to shffl a nair, but instead at the last second, waveland backwards. you have no idea how many fox players will try to grab you once you land. if you waveland backwards, unless they expect it, they'll always whiff a grab, which allows you any free hit on them

3) SHffl Uair approach is actually really awesome. too many fox players think you're too far away to hit them, but then the very tip of your tail will reach suprisingly far and flick them behind you. most fox players won't tech that, and you can run backwards and Usmash while they're on the ground. i love this =) i probably shouldn't have said SHffl uair though, cuz it's most likely better if you don't fastfall. just uair right before you hit the ground so that way the tip of your tail extends its furthest forward

4) running Dsmash. this is risky, but most of the time i do this, the player will run into it. if you miss, you could get punished, so don't spam this. this is just a suprise move if nothing else works

5) running Dtilt. i LOVE this. this is the approach that i use the most on DD happy players. most of the time, the Dtilt will miss though, but that's still a good thing, because this move has such little lag that you can't be punished for using it. if you watch my vids, i use dtilt A LOT, i love that move lol. it's probably my main approach move. if the dtilt misses, i usually do a shffl neutral, and for some reason they always misjudge and get hit by it. Dtilt -> grab is awesome too. this is pretty much my safe move

Scumfever: <3 :)

SoldierRift: although i'm black, i suck so bad at making up raps lol! good luck with that man[/COLLAPSE] :p

[COLLAPSE="N64 Sheik Matchup Essay"]Replying to ICG: So I started on a new matchup guide, and started with sheik, and this is the first part of it. I don't know how much if any of it applies to pichu, and this is also only vs. sheik while there are plenty of other chars with brutal grabs in pika, but yeah. Hope it helps:

Don't get grabbed:

Getting grabbed in this matchup really sucks for pikachu. Not all sheiks are willing to chaingrab you, and some don't quite know the timing/positioning for it, but regardless you should still avoid being grabbed at all costs, as she can still reliably dthrow->ftilt>fair or just dthrow->fair and now you're recovering against a sheik. So, how can pika not get grabbed in this matchup? None of this is foolproof and it relies on your own judgement and reacting to what the sheik does (or what you believe she'll do), but here are your main options.

Sheik has a few ways of getting a grab. Primarily, she will try to just sheildgrab you. You want to never be immediately in front of sheik unless you're grabbing her or punishing her lag/tech. Even if you are spaced a little bit she can often wd out of shield->grab, so you always want to stay at just the right distance against sheik unless you are sure that either she cannot grab you or if you are trying to lure a grab and punish her when she misses it. If you do, however, end up directly in front of her, you still have a couple panic options. First is downdodge. Pika's downdodge is pretty fast and can be pretty useful. If sheik tries to grab as you downdodge, it will whiff and her animation will end long enough after yours that you can almost always (depending on how soon you started the downdodge) grab or usmash before she can do anything. Relying on this makes you very predictable, however, and if sheik waits half a second instead of going for the immediate grab then she can grab you at the end of your dodge anyway. Another option is rapid jab, just mash A and all your troubles go away. Continue this until sheik is far enough away from you that she can't just grab. She can still wd grab or dash grab, so be ready to downdodge/run away in case. The last options are rolling, running away, or grabbing her first. All of these are slower than her grab if she goes for it immediately, so use them only if you think she'll wait or try something other than grab.

The second most common way she'll get a grab is by just dashing up to you and grabbing. Always watch what sheik's doing and where she is in relation to you. If she has a grab opportunity, she's very likely going to take it as the reward for getting that grab is huge. If you don't have a jolt already going towards her, then ftilt or dtilt can work well to hinder her approach. Also a properly timed usmash will hit her before she gets in grab range (but if she shields it, you'll probably get grabbed). The main way to prevent this, however, is just staying mobile. She can't grab you if you're in the air (though admittantly her aerial game is really good too) and if you're constantly changing position it's difficult for her to position a grab. And any time she whiffs one, you'll often have the opportunity to punish. Try to stay close enough that grabs seem possible, but maintaining just enough distance and alertness to avoid the grab and punish. Pika's punish game on sheik is actually decent, but I'll get into that later.

The next most common way she'll get a grab is with aerial pressure. Sheik comes down on your sheild with a fair, and then grabs you right afterwards. To my knowledge this isn't guaranteed, sheildstun from fair doesn't last quite long enough, so buffer a roll (preferably), downdodge, or sometimes you can usmash out of shield (if the fair hits your shield high) to avoid the grab. Related to this, she can also get grabs from falling needles->grab. To avoid this you kind of have to just avoid being in front and slightly below her. Always watch her position, you are fast enough to reposition yourself accordingly. Use your speed and don't get caught!

So, you got grabbed:

It's bound to happen, regardless of how careful you are. But not all hope is lost when it does. Depending on what percent you're at, there are a few things you can try to either escape the grab or at least not die from it.

At low percents (0-15%): Mash out. You should be trying to mash out regardless, but you're most likely to actually get out around here. It rarely happens, but if it does then yay! you're out of the grab.

At low-mid percents (0-70%): So, if she dthrows immediately and you can't mash out, you need to try to DI out of the grab. The first thing you should do is check to see if the sheik player actually knows how to (or wants to) chaingrab you. DI up and slightly behind, and if you do it just right pika should end up right behind her head. Mash jump rapidly, and if they don't do the chaingrab just right, she'll whiff the regrab and you can jump out and away to (relative) safety. Now, if this doesn't work, assume the player does know how to chainthrow pika, and pick the direction that the closest edge is. DI that direction until you either get to about 80%, or until you reach the edge. Then refer to the next section.

At mid-high percents (80-140%): Ok, luckily the chaingrab ends here with proper DI. Unluckily, she can still follow up after the dthrow with a fair. So, you want to still DI away and in front of her (NEVER go above her at this percent, it's a free usmash/uair for a guaranteed kill) and then as she jumps to hit you, DI up and towards. This is your best chance of surviving the fair.

At high percents (140%+): Now, she can't follow up out of the dthrow any more unless you let her. DI away and jump asap and you should avoid whatever she tries to follow up with. Unfortunately, now you're in the air without your second hump, but you just have to maneauver around via fastfalling and/or quickattack and try to get to the ground/edge safely.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Pikachu Team Tier List"]that's what I'm saying

my tier list for Pikachu teammates are

Pikachu Tier
Pikachu

God Tier
Fox

Pri Goot Tier
Falcon
Sheik
Falco
Ganon
Marth

Skler Tier
Link

Kwan Tier
Donkey Kong

Complete and Utter Garbage Tier
Everyone else[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Axe Edgeguarding Spacey Tips"]Ah yes, tail spiking a spacey, one of my favorite things to do :) lol

I'm not sure if this will help, but i'll try my best to explain. If I'm correct, you're asking about trying to Tailspike a spacey out of the start of their up-b, correct? While they're charging up their fire?

well... The best position for it (IMO) is to drop below them, then double jump upwards and tailspike them. Sometimes if you feel you don't have enough time to do that, you can run off the stage, fast fall, and do a falling Tailspike, but that takes a bit more practice.

Anyways, when (i'll use Falco for this example) Falco is charging his up-b, and you fall below him about to double jump and tailspike, make sure your positioning is correct. What works best for me is to position myself so that he is directly above and slightly in front of me. Let's say... if directly above pikachu is 90 degrees, then i'll want the falco to be at about 80 or 75 degrees. When you do the double jump tailspike, what helps me is to try to hit him with almost the tip of my tail. I usually will try to hit him with pretty much the outter most part of my tail. But this doesn't mean you have to over do it. I guess... to be more accurate, you should hit him somewhere between the absolute tip of your tail, and the middle of your tail. So almost at the tip, but not quite. You can hit him even when he's closer to your body, but just be careful. If he's too close, then you'll get the 1st hitbox (which sends him upwards). If he's too far in front of you, then you'll get the 4th hitbox (flinging him behind you, which means he'll be able to tech the stage, or even still live just by doing his up-b again). If he's even the slightest bit behind you and you hit him with the tip of your tail, you'll probably get the reverse tailspike (which... i GUESS still works, but you still don't want this).

If it helps, you can drop directly below Falco (or Fox), then do your double jump backwards, then tailspike. My biggest problem before I could get this down was not falling far enough, resulting in inaccurate tailspikes (which sometimes did the tailspike, but other times made him go in a random direction). You probably need to drop further below Falco than you might think.

As far as quick attacking to the edge from the stage... Honestly, I find it easier to pull off when I do a small jump before I start my quick attack. So pretty much, I'll press up (which will make pikachu jump), then as soon as pikachu leaves the ground (so he's like BARELY off the floor), I'll perform the sweetspot. This is still pretty much as fast as when you do it standing on the stage. I can still do it while pikachu's still on the stage, but like 10% 0r 15% of the time, i'll miss it, whereas if i jump first, i'll miss it almost 0% of the time. You don't have to jump first, but I do and it seems to work slightly better, so you should try it out too just to see how it is.

Also more about the sweetspot... the angles I do are pretty simple. The first zip goes completely horizontal. The second zip goes at a 45 degree angle downwards in the opposite direction. Make sure that AS SOON AS your second zip starts, let go of the control stick, or you might bypass the edge (because holding down makes it so you won't grab the edge, and sometimes your controller will count the 45 degree downwards angle as you still pressing down, so you'll still end up missing the edge). Just practice, and you'll get it =)[/COLLAPSE]




[COLLAPSE="Axe's Double Up-B Experiment Leading To Awesome Discussions"]WOWOWOW ok.... So I was very curious about doing your up-b only once upwards, and then somehow be able to turn around during that 1 zip. Well it turns out...

When you press up-b, BEFORE you take off for your first zip, you must lightly (and I mean VERY lightly) tilt the control stick in the opposite direction you are facing. If you do it right, you will go upwards and end up facing the other way. I can see this being useful, but it's very tricky to get down.

I can do it pretty well in training mode with the speed set to 1/4, but doing it in normal speed is very hard for me.

I also spent A LOT of time trying to find out how to go Upwards twice with your quick attack, but no luck. I tried everything I could think of... including trying things with this new turn-around technique. I thought maybe if you turn around during the first zip, then you can go upwards on the second one. But no luck... Then I thought maybe if you tilt the control stick in another direction (i.e. tilting it downwards, but very lightly so you will still go up) THEN press Up right after your first zip, then it'll work. Sadly still no luck there. I KNOW there's a way. I've seen it before. I wish I favorited the vid in which I saw it in a long time ago.


EDIT


OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just did it!!!!!!!!!!!!! ahhh!!! but... I don't know EXACTLY what I did, but I know I'm on the right track. I have a feeling that it has something to do with turning around during your quick attack, so it has something to do with some crazy tilting stuff.

NOTE:

I did NOT press any buttons at all except for B one time, which was just for pressing up-b. I ONLY inputed directions, no buttons. I was getting really frustrated, so I decided to just do a bunch of random directions (which I think ALL of them except for the initial pressing up-b were TILTS). I'm PRETTY SURE that I only tilted left and right. I Think that I was tilting the control stick rapidly from left to right after I pressed up-b, but I'm not 100% positive. Also, I'm in training mode under 1/4 speed. I tried doing it again for about 5 minutes, but I couldn't do it again. Now that I've pulled this off 1 time, I really REALLY wanna figure this out.

EDIT:EDIT:

Just pulled it off a second time. This time I made sure that I only solely used tilts. Before I took off for the first zip, I tilted my control stick opposite where I was facing so I would turn around during the first zip. Right after I took off for the first zip, I gently rotated the control stick, so it just registered a bunch of very slight tilts. For some reason, it went upwards a second time. I'm not sure if it's necessary to turn around during the first zip or not. I'm gonna try to do it using the same method without turning around now, just to see if it's possible.

Oh and I also forgot to say: Every time, I've been jumping before i start my quick attack. I'm not sure if you can do it from the floor or not. Man this is so freakin exciting lol.


EDIT:EDIT:EDIT:(lol edit)

Alright... Pulled the double up-b off 2 more times. The first time, I was trying to do it without turning around during my first zip, but I couldn't do it. I gave up and started to always turn around, then I did it. As a note: unless I accidentally inputed another slight direction that I didn't mean to, I WAS ONLY TILTING LEFT/RIGHT. Which means that in order to do this technique, you only press Up Once, which is just for pressing the initial up-b. The rest is just tilting left and right.

The 4th time I did it, I actually did it WITHOUT turning around on the first zip. So it IS possible to do without turning around on the first zip. I did notice, however.... EVERYTIME during the second zip upwards again, Pikachu would turn around. So when I landed on the floor this time, I was facing the opposite direction from when I was initially standing on the ground. All the other 3 times, I landed on the ground facing the same way (which is because I turned around during the first zip, then turned around AGAIN during the second zip).

Ok........... I've tried doing this for a really long time now. I'm gonna stop trying for today. I really hope these conclusions can help someone to figure out exactly how to do this technique. It would be very useful.

The conclusion of this entire experiement:

-I'm pretty sure that this technique deals with TILTING the control stick either left or right (HORIZONTALLY). Up was not used except for the initial input of Up + B, and Down was never used. I MIGHT have accidentally tilted slightly downwards or upwards without noticing though, but I'm just throwing that posibility in there just in case. Someone, anyone, please try to figure this out!

All experiments were done in Training Mode under 1/4 speed.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="N64 Edgeguarding Fox Info"]Sorry, been busy lately. Lets see, gimping fox from backthrow.

Yes, what mogwai said works alright. There are a number of things you can do, and to an extent it's based on what you predict him to do. Here's a list (not necessarily complete) on what fox CAN do and what you can do to stop it. This is assuming fox is at mid percents (like 50%ish), so he goes an average distance on the throw.

1. Jump and forward B. This can come at 3 common levels: low enough to sweetspot the edge, at stage level to go through you (and potentially hit you), or high to try to get over you/get to a platform. The first one is beaten by a down-angled ftilt (which will send them low and force them to upB which you can usually just run off fastfall dair them as a followup). The second one (stagelevel) you can either ftiltif your reaction time is fast enough, or dash backwards a little bit (trying to position so that you'll be near the end of their upB), shield, and then punish them out of shield with grab/usmash/whatever. They can short their upB, however, which can mess with your spacing (though ftilting near the edge at the right time will cover every option at this height). For the third option (above you), you can follow their upB and usually be able to punish them before they land and recover from the lag, with a little reaction speed.

2. Jump and upB. There's a decent amount of variability to this, as they can choose at what time they jump (as long as they don't wait long enough that they can't recover), what time they start their upB (though it'll usually be at the height of their jump), and what direction they go (again, within the directions that they can recover with). The variability makes general options not always work, but there are a few things to note. When upBing fox hangs in the air for a second or two. This means it's easier to position tailspike/intercept/jolt/whatever in this time. Try to force him to show you where he's going to start upBing from and then use your speed to get to him before (or very soon after) he starts to move from the upB. From the distance away he is from the stage, you can usually tell whether he'll go high to try to get above you, go through you (rare), or try to sweetspot the stage. Going high is often tailspikable, going through you is punishable oos (and also interceptable, most commonly with ftilt), and sweetspotting is interceptable with downangled ftilts (usually) or just edgehoggable.

3. Jump and sweetspot. Downangled ftilt if you have time. Downsmash if you think he's going to miss the sweetspot.

4. Jump and airdodge. Usually you can ftilt and still follow him after the airdodge if the ftilt misses. If he uses it a lot though, just wait and punish where he lands.

Ok, that's a lot of guessing and quick reaction times for punishments. What you probably want is what are your most common, 'best' options. Mogwai mentioned my top choices already, but i'll try to answer your questions on them.

My main four responses are:

1. Full jump out and jolt. This covers most fox defensive spacing recoveries (where he jumps back and forward/upBs to the stage). Once the jolt hits, you are in prime position to tailspike or nair most often.

2. Full jump and jolt away from the stage. Jump, press slightly in the direction of off the stage, hit B. This covers standard or less hesitant jump forward/upB recoveries.

3. Down-angled ftilt. This covers any sweetspot attempt and can hit the quick jump->forwadBs anywhere near the stage. If they hold back and try up forward/upB to the stage instead, just ftilt again.

4. Wait. The previous 3 commit you to an action that could whiff, and have various levels of lag/positional disadvantages to them. Sometimes you can still punish fox's recovery if you just wait (or dashdance or some idol movement to make fox think you're setting up for something while you still leave yourself open to punish) and then, well, punish what he does.

Also, what everyone else said, heh. Hope that helps.


As far as pika v. peach, I'm not that good at it, heh. Chudat probably has the best pika vs. peaches atm. But, anyways, a lot of what can mess you up in this fight is peach's priority is retardedly good. What you have to do is mostly use your mobility and any quick moves you have to knock peach around and build up damage before you set up a usmash. Tailspike can kill occasionally, as peach's vertical recovery is kinda limited, but your most common kill move will likely be usmash.

You want to try to hit her before she can pull out an appropriate move, or fake approaches and get her to throw out a move early, outspace it, then punish it. DON'T try to trade with peach with anything but maybe usmash (the reward for usmash is pretty big) as most times it won't trade and you'll just get hit. Use your speed to move around outside of her range, bait approaches, and dash back to punish them. If she's floatcancelling aerials, try to time it so that you dash away as the aerial comes down, and dash back to a grab or (preferably) jc usmash or jump in with an aerial. Be weary of her quick dsmashes/dashattacks after floatcancelled aerials, though. Usmash oos works well against her dashattack approaches (as long as pika's crappy shield holds). Uair works wonders if she gets above you because she can't really do much to get around it or go through it. Try to chip away at her with uairs and other aerials occasionally when she's in the air, and play a spacing game when she's on or close to the ground.

Turnips aren't much of a hassle. Shield them (and immediately roll away if she's following with an aerial), jump over them, catch them if you're daring, but generally just use your mobility to get around them. Conversely, jolts kinda mess with peach, especially if she likes floating low the ground as they will bounce along and hit her. Jolts should either force her into her shield (where her reactions to your approaches are more predictable) or into the air (which can let you get under her and create havoc). Just watch out for her trying to run under them if you jolt closeish.

That's what I can think of atm, let me know if there's any specific issues you're having against peach.[/COLLAPSE]


[COLLAPSE="Pikachu Combo Videos"]Looking for combos? Well, thank goodness for combo videos :)

Anther: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0wXG27IIvQ

Axe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGTWI2f6AIE

D. Disciple: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHzPPtPsAQ4

N64: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6161813820580477434&q=Electric+Shuffle#

Samurai: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGcC1KTnrR4


Ok I know I'm missing a lot, those are just the ones off the top of my head right now lol. Anyone wanna help me out? :)[/COLLAPSE]


[COLLAPSE="Axe Approach Options"]I really like Dtilt as my main approach. It seems to be very safe, and when you hit someone with it you can usually follow up with a shffl Nair or grab because they're usually too slow to react lol. But if you want an actual combo approach, Nair is the way to go. Just be careful, because if you miss then you're pretty likely to get punished once you land. However if you hit them with it, you can usually combo with either a Dtilt, Ftilt, Usmash:), Dsmash, or another Nair.

Running full jump thunderjolt is a very good approach for those who are too afraid to attack through it. I recommend trying this at least once. If your opponent attacks through it, I probably would never try it again. However if their reaction is to block or try anything else other than attack, then this approach works very well especially since it combos into Usmash most of the time.

Running Dsmash is a good approach for catching someone off guard. Many people I fight will run into it. Be careful though because if they're smart enough to not run into it, you will get punished. I recommend to also try this at least once and see what happens.

If all else fails, approach with a running SH -> Waveland backwards. Most people's reaction is to try to grab you once you land, but your waveland will make them miss the grab. Counterattack during the lag of their grab with a Usmash or a grab of your own (or maybe another move if you wanna mix things up). Hope this helped :)[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="More Axe Wisdom"]lol thanks man. ok, so for the super wave dash...

basically, with pikachu, all you need to do is up-b strait into the floor with your first zip, then go directly horizonatlly across the floor with your 2nd zip. if you're hit by something in the middle of your 2nd zip with equal priority (in Axe Effect, in the 2 times that i did it, i used YL's boomerang and my own thundershock that was reflected back at me), then the 2 moves will clank together, and you'll perform somewhat of a SWD.

if you have someone to practice with, i'd suggest trying out SWD's on final D with pikachu against link. just have him throw his boomerang, then up-b into the floor, then horizontally. links boomerang is the easiest to pull it off on in my opinion, but you can also do it off of things like most character's jabs, the flipper item, mario/luigi's fireball, etc etc. pretty much just anything with low priority.

Ftilt is AMAZING! it has awesome priority. you are definately using it correctly for edgeguards. most of the time, try to angle your ftilt downwards if you are trying to edgeguard. if you just do a normal ftilt, they sometimes can still sweetspot, so downard ftilts are awesome for edgeguarding.

for onstage usage of ftilt, you would want to use upward ftilt most of the time. it has amazing priority and stops others from being able to approach. if a falcon tries to approach you with a shffl'd nair, an upwards ftilt will beat it. it's a pretty safe move, and i love using it.

dtilt is very good also, i use it pretty often. it's kind of just a "get off me" sort of move. it pushes them away, and has very little lag which is very good. if you try dtilt -> grab, it should work most of the time, because the opponent usually doesn't know how to react unless you've faught them countless times. it works for me a lot. but in a nutshell, crouch cancel dtilt is pretty much just a move if you want other characters out of your space. if you're fighting a sheik that loves to tilt, crouch cancel down tilt will save your butt, trust me.

Utilt is probably the move i use the least. it's actually decent, it's just move of the time i'd rather use another move. it's not a bad move though, i know other pika players have incorperated it into their game play. i can't really give much advice on this move cuz i don't really use it often lol.

and yes, if a character is on the floor, you can jab reset them with pikachu. it's pretty much the same as fox. you can jab reset and punish them with anything (i'd personally upsmash most of the time). however, if they're NOT on the floor and you jab them, it kinda sux because for SOME reason it has a ton of lag after it. the only thing that pika's jab will cancel into is another jab, so if you find that you jab someone, i'd recommend to keep jabbing until your jabs can't reach them anymore. sad to say, usually when i jab someone in the middle of the stage, it usually ends up in me getting punished. i usually only use it when a character is close to the edge, and i'll just keep jabbing until they fall off. if you jab in the middle of the stage though, chances are that you'll get punished, so use this move wisely.[/COLLAPSE]
[COLLAPSE="Elven Arrow Grab Frame Data"]Thought this might help here.

Pikachu:pikachu2:
D-Throw: NO
23, 51 [28] (Hitbox on Ground 12-22; 12-15 hitlag)

U-Throw: NO
23, 47 [24] (Hitbox on Head 14-22; 14-17 hitlag)

F-Throw: NO
37, 52 [15] (Continuous hitboxes on Back at 10, 14, 18, 22 of the animation with 2 added freeze frames on each hit; in real time the hitboxes are out from 10-33)

B-Throw: YES
30, 50 [20]

EDIT:

I should try the fthrow. Never used it before. It seems so Brawl-y, though.

I prefer the dthrow for tech chases into usmash. I dunno how it'd work out on floaties.

Oh the numbers are...

First frame the opponent leaves the throw, first frame you can act after the throw and the difference between the two.

Respectively.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Axe CG Tip"]when i chain grab fast fallers with pika, i ALWAYS JC grab. whenever i try to just dash grab, i always miss. i feel that the JC grab is a lot better because (even if it might have a little less range) the grab comes out faster. i have no idea about what frames they come out on, but i know that a JC grab comes out faster than a dash grab. if you wanna chaingrab fast fallers, i definately recommend running JC grabs if they DI.

also, with full DI, it's very hard to Chaingrab them starting at 0%. i usually get a little bit of damage on them, maybe at least to 15%, then i can chaingrab guaranteed.

just saying, you have to take into account how fast the grab comes out, not the range of the grab.

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="N64 Ftilt Info"]ftilt is easier with the timing. It seems to hang out there forever. As such, it covers a lot of options. If the fox goes straight towards the edge, he'll get there sooner than if he takes a shallower angle and hugs the wall. Ftilt stays out long enough to almost always cover all options (assuming fox is trying to grab the edge). Fsmash doesn't stay out quite as long.

Another big thing is angled ftilt hits sweetspotting fox/falcos, as long as they're close enough to the stage. It actually hits slightly below the ledge, so they can't sweetspot it unless they space themselves far enough away from the edge with the upB (usually you want to ftilt from a distance, as otherwise the hitbox of firefox will trade with your ftilt, and you'll get hit up while they're likely recovering from the next firefox). Fsmash does not hit sweetspotters, except on like water form of stadium, but that's because the stage is silly.

You also have less lag after ftilt, so you can do stuff like in the given example where axe ftilt->run off uair spike.

It also seems more difficult (sometimes impossible?) to tech. I have had very few ftilts teched, but it seems every other fsmash edgeguard i do gets teched.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Bair Info"]Anyways, bair essay. Here's everything I love about bair. It comes out fast. I don't know the frame data, but its hitbox has to come out in the first 5 frames or something. Its initial knockback is pretty nice too if you hit early in its animation. Also, it lasts forever. Some see this as a drawback as you're pretty committed to it once you start it, and I'll agree, but I love just floating down with a bair. A lot of people will expect it to end early or not have as wide of a hitbox (since pikas aerials have pretty poor range) or expect to be able to beat it or something and will try to punish, only to get hit anyway. Its priority is kinda bad, but it will still at least trade with a decent number of things. You can slide a bit with it, which makes it easyish to ledge-cancel, but i personally don't use it for this much as if it hits it doesn't really ledgecancel into anything. I guess it makes the move safer though. Lastly, one of the main things i loooove about pika is when you land with it for a few frames you are really short. Like, almost jigglypuff crouch short. And fortunately the few frames that you are this short happen to be when characters can first grab after shielding it. You don't duck everyone's grabs, but any medium-height character will fail to grab you. This includes sheik marth and ganon, most notably. And after they whiff, you get to punish them, usually with your own grab or rising uair.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="N64 Utilt Info"]I like utilt for shield pressure and as a delayed hit. Works well against people who like to jump out of their shield and when you think someone's going to grab you. It has decent priority and although it covers the same area as usmash effectively, it sets up combos (or forces a tech on low percent fastfallers) and has more hitstun than the non-'sweetspot' area of usmash.[/COLLAPSE]
[COLLAPSE="Axe's Dtilt"]I know this is a really late response but here goes nothing lol. Sorry you guys ^^



It's kinda hard to explain but I'll try my best lol. Basically...

My main use of dtilt is just using it as a safe little poking move to basically throw my opponent off their rhythm. One of my main approaches against an opponent that's a decent distance away is to dash towards them and do a running Dtilt. Sometimes it hits them, sometimes it doesn't, but after doing this for a while, I've realized that it's really effective whether you hit your opponent or not.

If I end up not hitting my opponent with it, I still do a running SHFFL Nair, and somehow I guess the Dtilt kind of throws them off because Pikachu is stationary for a small amount of time, so they misjudge their spacing and end up getting hit by the Nair (or blocking it, in which case you can still do a rising Uair to prevent getting punished). Here's an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liy8D3bIOdU#t=5m18s (at 5:18)
I feel like the Dtilt is basically an extension of Pikachu's approach, making it very very wide and deceptive to your opponent.

If I end up hitting my opponent with the Dtilt, it kinda depends what percent they're at. If they're at a low percent (or they're a fastfaller and they're at a percent where they won't fall down), I usually end up going for a grab, or an Ftilt or another Dtilt just to knock them further away, then follow up with a running SHFFL Nair. Example of a grab:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLyHN3z85CY#t=45s (at 0:45)

If they're at mid percent, or they're a floaty character (or in a fast faller's case, they fall to the ground), I usually go for either a running SHFFL Nair right after I hit them (which can usually combo into Usmash), or just go straight for a Usmash.


All this stuff is kinda hard to explain lol. If you watch any of my matches within the last year and a half or so, I use Dtilt a lot in pretty much every matchup except for maybe like Peach and Jiggs since they're in the air so often, and I usually just use Dtilt against opponents who are on the ground for the most part.

I hope that helps ^^
[/COLLAPSE]


Random Tidbits

i'm going to become the cranky kong of pikas

back in my day we didn't have quick attack ATs

[COLLAPSE="ICG Amazingness"]


I think you may be wearing the wrong hat axe.

Red hat-you are teh pokemon master of all pokemon.
Wizard hat-more electric power with your wizard powers.
maf hat-you are going to rough up some people
Nude-people will look away, because no one wants to look at a nude guy and that's when you hit them.

I wish I could do pikachu's colors as good as pichu's like his backpack makes him heavier.

But axe you are the limit I don't think you will just stop where you are you will keep climbing your mountain without a top and watch as other people try to climb and they will look up to you as you reach what they think is the peak but there will be no end in the mountain of skill and there will never find a limit other than yourself.

But yeah your amazing and will most likely keep becoming more amazing kindof like drakrain, but I don't know if you can combo someone more than a fox waveshineing someone against a wall like darkrain.

I knew all of that stuff pikachu's is useless for offence fully charged can go over a falcon just standing, the side-B when I discover it myself I found the only useful place is jungle japes. fully charge it on a side platform on the edge faceing the stage and it will canel on the top platform.

Pichu's is stonger, lower(garder to avoid), faster,more damage, and mindgames people really bad when used smart.

If anyone says pikachu's side-B cancel is legit then why isn't pichu's perfect up-B it's faster and more flexible in everyway.

have you ever tryed to DD around and randomlly charge it? works for pichu and because your movement stops when you hit someone.

Oh it's way to legit for edge gaurd I think I used it vs a random falcon I ran off and charged it up and side-B ***** him as pichu. Ahh good times.

pichu's is better.


Hey I got a great idea for pichu that MAY work for pikachu. I know as PICHU you can't be grabed when jabing by peach or zedla giving you help when pressureing them. Well what about d-tilt? pichu's/pikachu's frame should be lower to the ground so it could help **** sheilds better than some thought like you can't be grabed out of it
Hey you know what works right? up-B staight into their face when they are falcon my brother was so stunned he didn't know what to do and ended up SDing.

also you guys don't know HOW to taunt staight up you need Godly mindgames I mean my brother will never attack a taunting pichu again (works with pika too) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx8M9WqCvCk SSSOOOOOO broken pichu's taunt is so cute/broken it can set you on fire better than roys sword
[/COLLAPSE]



[COLLAPSE="Perhaps the Greatest Piece of Pikachu Info"]
My friends my theory has just came to be, after countless hours of testing and going to many random game fests. It was hard work but I have in fact proven my theory to be positive. This theory also works for pichu the tiny cousin of pikachu. But yes my theory is that;

Playing Pikachu gets you the ladies, i have in fact proven this through countless exercises.

While playing pikachu you get: a +10 Cuteness stat increase to the ladies, a 45% boost in ladies watching you, a 50% chance of ladies saying awww its pikachu, a 30% increase in the likelyhood of said lady people in playing with you, and a 100% awesome bonus. It is almost the same for pichu

On the opposite end; Ganondorf has the exact opposite effects, as seeing that statistically less lady people watched me play, and a 70% drop in those who played with me. Surprisingly bowser gives you benefit effects to my amazement.

I gained all this information while using Space animals as an average ;D And using my amazing asian brain power to get the stats

Remember this is all statistics, but due to me being a professional in the art of Pikachu i say this is 100% true. ;D


vvAxe approves of this theory as well transforming it into a Law of Science vv
[/COLLAPSE]
 

soju

SD God
Premium
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Messages
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#4
well i juiced out all the good info and will probably add more if we get into any good discussions in our uber dead forums, i could do the matchup thread + anything interesting from the pika aim discussions, but for now its just this which is a lot of pretty basic but need to know pika info
 

soju

SD God
Premium
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Being a Scrub
#6
N64 already did a good job on the matchup thread, even if it is a bit outdated, so no need there.

And even if we did try and finish it, we would need more people because axe is inactive in this thread and the others also inactive, leaving only me who is still getting the hang of pika and n64
 

soju

SD God
Premium
Joined
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Messages
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Being a Scrub
#8
apparently, but after lurking the tourny results threads, i noticed d. disciple is still playing and recently got 9th :D im not sure if he still uses pikachu but still its pretty cool :B
 

soju

SD God
Premium
Joined
Jun 11, 2009
Messages
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Being a Scrub
#16
pshhh i like the non-stickiness of these threads >;3 makes it looks like the pika boards is more active then it actually is. Oh and self-bump for the win <3
 
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