Pikachu = ....C Tier?

[Zylar]

So there are no other pika's that place?
Or no pika's that go to tourneys?

 

[Roller]

I hate you.

There will be a next time, I promise.

Going by your logic, though, Anther IS Pika as far as the tier list is concerned. If that places him where he is on the list (now that you've SO KINDLY corrected my understanding of what the tier list is ), then it is what it is.

Just think of where he'll be when/if the rest of us catch up....

lol, I know I came off as really rude right there, I have a horrible habbit of needing to own people who I am having a debate with. I have no ill will towards you, nor do I think of you as being unintelligent or anything.

And I agree that it seems that for the tier list's purposes Anther IS pika, and that is my qualm with Pika's pacement. In the business world, people who use numbers for their jobs such as Actuarial scientists discredit outliars (A value far from most others in a set of data-Dictionary.com) because one number should not have such an impact on the big picture. I am meerly suggesting that we take that proffesional business stance and apply it here. In which case Anther's impact should be minimalized, because good pikas in the current meta aren't as good as Anther with the only exception being Anther himself; and as he takes up only one spot in the metagame consisting of all tourney players everywhere this would be in the best statistical interest of the tier list.

EDIT:
Zylar, sorry but you misunderstand. I'll try to clarify. I am saying the exact opposite of that actually. I am saying that there are plenty of pika players. HOWEVER, none as good or who have done nearly as well in the tourament scene as Anther. I am saying that the majority of good pika players in the metagame (which have not been doing as consistently well at tourneys) should be the ones judged for the tierlist. Not just one pikachu who has done well.

What I am saying is the tierlist is the one saying what you just suggested I had implied. I think this is an atrocity; as you could just as easily take one sucky pikachu and base pika's tier placement on him. The tier list should state the likely top contenders at tournaments around the country (as it is indeed a national tierlist) not just one godly person from the mid-west.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

pikapika has won 2 tourneys and consistetly places high. i wouldnt call anther the only pro pika lol.

 

[Roller]

pikapika has won 2 tourneys and consistetly places high. i wouldnt call anther the only pro pika lol.

I am not suggesting he is the only "pro" pika. I am suggesting that he is the "best" pro pika, and has gotten to the finals and won far more tourneys than the rest of the pro pikas. I think pikapika is actually a better representation of the high end pikachu players in the metagame.

 

[KayLo!]

lol, I know I came off as really rude right there, I have a horrible habbit of needing to own people who I am having a debate with. I have no ill will towards you, nor do I think of you as being unintelligent or anything.

It's fine, lol. I was wrong in my assumption of what the tier list represented, and you corrected me. My feelings weren't hurt or anything.... I love arguing/debating.

I'll just get you back someday.

<3 Roller

And I agree that it seems that for the tier list's purposes Anther IS pika, and that is my qualm with Pika's pacement. In the business world, people who use numbers for their jobs such as Actuarial scientists discredit outliars (A value far from most others in a set of data-Dictionary.com) because one number should not have such an impact on the big picture. I am meerly suggesting that we take that proffesional business stance and apply it here. In which case Anther's impact should be minimalized, because good pikas in the current meta aren't as good as Anther with the only exception being Anther himself; and as he takes up only one spot in the metagame consisting of all tourney players everywhere this would be in the best statistical interest of the tier list.

Hmm, I get what you're saying (biopsych major here... labslabsmorelabs, not to mention Bio Stats), but let's not forget that this list is still subjective. If they did "minimize" Anther, they'd run into a whole mess of trouble trying to do that objectively.

Which isn't to say that I don't think they should have tried, at least a little. I'd say Pika would have moved down 1 or 2 spots in that case.

pikapika has won 2 tourneys and consistetly places high. i wouldnt call anther the only pro pika lol.

What Roller said.

Anther is pretty far ahead iirc. I don't study tourney results or anything, but I'm pretty sure that's the truth. Objectively, his results warp Pika's results as a whole. That's not a bad thing, it just gave Pika a manysortaundeserved step up on the tier list.

Edit:

This chart shows the score each character got when the votes were averaged. The divisions were placed so that:

1. Gaps between tiers were relatively large, and
2. The spread within tiers was relatively small.

The particular number of tiers isn't special--that's just how the votes ended up. The majority of us believed that using a smaller number of tiers would be misleading, given the results.

Seems to me, if we're going by the chart, Pika should have been at the bottom of B tier. But I guess they didn't want C tier to have only 3 characters....

The letters are still stupid.

Also, oddly enough, I would rather pika be top of C tier than the a** of B tier.

 

[Roxas215]

Anther is imo what pika could be like. Like someone else said he isn't doing anything we don't know it's that his overall game and the intelligent player that he is makes him place high in tournaments.

A tier list is a list of chars based on equal skill level using the current metagame. Since anther is placing well in tournaments against other pro players pika should be judged off that.

 

[Roller]

Anther is imo what pika could be like.

I get what you're saying, but I definately think thee is room for even Anther to improve. Meaning that pika has even more potential than that.

Like someone else said he isn't doing anything we don't know it's that his overall game and the intelligent player that he is makes him place high in tournaments.

A tier list is a list of chars based on equal skill level using the current metagame. Since anther is placing well in tournaments against other pro players pika should be judged off that.

The problem lies in the tierlist's overall accuracy when you do that. By placing pika in a spot on the tierlist based primarily on one player's merits you are effectively giving a false presence of how many and how well pika players overall are playing and winning in tourneys. One person from one city shouldn't be used as almost the sole focus of the national metagame. It is misleading and works against the idea of what a tierlist is trying to accomplish.

 

[Khanxay]

Hmm... I always was a C student.


I entirely agree all the way with Pikachu's placement (Along with all my other characters, who are all lower). Pikachu keeps it real. No one's taking his spot.


And it's stupid how I have trouble with people in the lower tiers but that due to lack of experience (and laziness of reading other character boards).

 

[KING BRISKET]

-LOL, Falcon can't catch a break
-Diddy definitely deserved a raise
-IC are B tier, **** YOU ALL
-Pit droppin out of C Tier...WTF
-Give Zelda her old spot back
-Sheik over Bowser
-Good job Pika

 

[M15t3R E]

I get what you're saying, but I definately think thee is room for even Anther to improve. Meaning that pika has even more potential than that.

Agreed. It would be silly to think otherwise.

The problem lies in the tierlist's overall accuracy when you do that. By placing pika in a spot on the tierlist based primarily on one player's merits you are effectively giving a false presence of how many and how well pika players overall are playing and winning in tourneys. One person from one city shouldn't be used as almost the sole focus of the national metagame. It is misleading and works against the idea of what a tierlist is trying to accomplish.

So what you're saying is, the potential of a character should not be used to place a character in the tier list, because it can conflict with tournament results of that character. Interesting concept, to which I agree.
Though, as I've said, what the true potential of a character is, is nothing but subjective. I do believe the SBR created the tier list based solely on character match-ups and tournament results for each character- not speculation of how a character could possibly start to rise above other characters.

 

[SilverSpark]

there's room for all of us to improve

for example, all of the applications for QA and QAC (and those other 80+ tricks)

 

[!Boom!]

Psh im already perfect. I dont need to improve in anything.

 

[gallax]

pika is a finess character by any and all means. small hits leading to higher percentage kills comparatively to others chars. we are all getting better and i can tell you now that after being gone 4 two months and coming back to fight stealth....wow. huge improvement. i know that we are all improving.

edit* and if anyone would ever like to practice against a god snake/marth/oli im always here. i have a good sheik too but its sheik...come on.

 

[!Boom!]

LOL its stealth. What else would you expect from the thunder god?

*Sucking up*

 

[gallax]

you know i was actually gonna critique him about the thunder b/c when i played him he didnt really use it that effectively...or even that much. we used it about the same. unless im using it more then i think he was either sandbaggin or he didnt want to use it against me...

 

[Stealth Raptor]

it really depends on my mood galax/ i can be a thunder ***** at times. it also depends on your playstyle. if you play me enough you will eventually see why they call me the thunder god lol.

 

[Steeler]

for some reason, my master ball doesn't work on stealth's pikachu

:\

 

[gallax]

trust me thought too stealth...i hvae seen what you can do. like 55% on a thunair?

 

[Stealth Raptor]

lol thats the absolute upper range.... its more how i use thunder lol. and rofl steeler gtfo of the pika boards. jkjk <3 pokemon buddies 4 life.

 

[Tornadith]

At least we're not 16/26 from Melee. Yuck.

I'm just glad that we're even CLOSE to top tier.

I also think that there is a lack of good pikachu players besides Anther so pikachu isn't that well represented in tournaments.

Also: If Captain Falcon is ranked 19 in tournaments...why is he 36? He's top of the C tier like us. (Except we're middle of B in tournaments)

C Rank <Borderline> 8.75%
19 Captain Falcon (2 top8, 1 win) - 30.2 - 31

 

[Zylar]

I'm pretty content with pika's placement, not to high, not low.

Torneys aren't the only thing tier lists are based off of.
Besides it's like three placements in tourneys where we don't know if it was 'important' or not.

 

[Jinkwai]

I'm pretty content with pika's placement, not to high, not low.

Torneys aren't the only thing tier lists are based off of.
Besides it's like three placements in tourneys where we don't know if it was 'important' or not.

True, but you know what they say...

"Winning isn't everything, but it's the only thing that matters."

 

[Roller]

Torneys aren't the only thing tier lists are based off of.

According to the one who posted the tier list this time they were almost exclusively based off of them, see my post on the last page for the exact quote of his.

As for whether that is good or bad, I leave to your own discression.

 

[yummynbeefy]

well im not too suprised i expected pika to be around where he is now
im disapointed in pit though

 

[Zylar]

According to the one who posted the tier list this time they were almost exclusively based off of them, see my post on the last page for the exact quote of his.

As for whether that is good or bad, I leave to your own discression.

Okay true. (I have the impression the first tier didn't do the same thing.)
But that only leads to their individual interpretatation of the tournament results.

 

[Roller]

well im not too suprised i expected pika to be around where he is now
im disapointed in pit though

ZOMG GTFO n00b! lolz

No really, Pit is seriously MADE of spam. I actually managed to get this screenshot of him earlier today..

 

[supermario27mx]

TR4Q, play pika for fun.
Im rarely ever on the pika boards so im not really familiar with other pika players and their performances but if anther is the only pikachu that places well pika should be dropped as some people have said. Best placement I have gotten at a large singles tournament is 17/70+ at quiznos V (socal, long beach area) I lost to Fly Amanita (ice climbers) and DJ (Falco MK). DSF won that tournament w/ MK and DDD. Im sure anther or the second best pika in here would have placed better.
At the moment I'm too lazy to read through the entire thread so sorry if this contributed nothing to the discussion but remember that pika may drop/rise in the next tier list. Its up to us to put pika as high as he can go.

 

[GreenAce]

I feel that donkey kong got downgraded way to low does anyone else agree.

 

[KayLo!]

I feel that donkey kong got downgraded way to low does anyone else agree.

Not really.... the characters above DK are imho better than him, so there was no place for him to go but down. He's not a bad character, just not... better than others, I guess. (Does that make sense?)

I always thought he should be below Pika anyways.

A lot of the placements C tier and below seem strange to me, but after considering it and reading some of the more intelligent responses from SBR members (see: Sonic boards), I respect that they're probably a heck of a lot more knowledgeable than most of us and composed the list to the best of their abilities. It's never going to be perfect.

Besides, at the end of the day, it's JUST a list. Anyone who bases their Smash experience off of it is just plain silly. (I'm not saying you are, just making a blanket statement.)

 

[Ussi]

With DK's down grade Pikachu is the best charcter I use now lol.. (DK is mainly for teams though)

 

[GreenAce]

Not really.... the characters above DK are imho better than him, so there was no place for him to go but down. He's not a bad character, just not... better than others, I guess. (Does that make sense?)

I always thought he should be below Pika anyways.

A lot of the placements C tier and below seem strange to me, but after considering it and reading some of the more intelligent responses from SBR members (see: Sonic boards), I respect that they're probably a heck of a lot more knowledgeable than most of us and composed the list to the best of their abilities. It's never going to be perfect.

Besides, at the end of the day, it's JUST a list. Anyone who bases their Smash experience off of it is just plain silly. (I'm not saying you are, just making a blanket statement.)

Yeah I guess you're right it just took me by surprise that he took a fall because in my opinion he's an incredible character but yeah it's just a list just because a character is ranked higher doesn't mean you're going to lose.Unless it's meta knight

 

[gallax]

actually there is this player in florida whose name is linguini and every time he faces a MK with DK you know he is going to win. he doubled killed m2k and cort in a doubles match to win once. it was amazing. DK really is a good character. but i think kaylo is right about him though. too many bad matchups above him.