Pikachu: A discussion

[festizzio]

Did you know that if you're standing on the ledge doing your teeter animation and you quick attack once straight up, you'll SD no matter what?

 

[Xanthyr]

That's 'cause you're facing the wrong way if you're doing the teeter animation.

 

[Anther]

Did you know that if you quick attack up and then towards the stage from the cloud on yoshi's story while it's at one of the lower positions you'll "sweetspot" the lower platform XD...

 

[Shadow 111]

ok, i've never used pikachu before but he's pretty fun to use.
i was just watching some of anther's vids like the combo video and i wanted to know what you pika players think of the match up against jiggly puff.
i main jiggly puff but dislike ditttos so i needd a character that's good at the match up.
pikachu can't really be rested easily so i'd think it in favor of pikachu.
tell me if i'm wrong though and could anyone give me some advice on the match up.

 

[PsychopathicEmus]

hmm...does anyone here know who Master of Chu is? i've seen a few vids of him playing t!mmy and such, but i've never heard of him (or her?).

 

[firexemblemxpryde]

Guys, I have been challenged by DivinoKage to go all Pikachu next tournament. Having the pride of a yellow mouse, I agreed.

*THE FOLLOWING IS A PRIMARY SOURCE DOCUMENT*
Kage the Champion, Pound 3... I await impatiently for this. says:
alright then next tourney go all pikachu =P
Kage the Champion, Pound 3... I await impatiently for this. says:
prove to me pikachu is good hehe
Manuel says:
fine

[/primary source]
SOME POINTERS PLEASE? LIKE HOW DO I PLAY THIS CHARACTER?

edit:// some vids!

vs Falsefalco

Match 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXFq_WExah4
Match 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qla9bnaRqfM

vs this marth guy
Match 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51X5qGZiWAg
Match 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4tq7AjoKwk
Match 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6RP2VM7fEo
Match 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF23fGpCsr8
Match 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLUMvJloGiA

also, what are some pikachu specific tricks i SHOULD know?
like with fox, there's drillshine usmash, uthrow uair, turnaround waveshine edgehog etc.
with marth, there's sh dbl aerial, falling uair, chainthrowing, blah.

I'm a good player, just not talented yet with pikachu. Plus i read like the first 50 posts of this thread, I deserve some feedback =O.

 

[PsychopathicEmus]

hmm, you've got a fairly decent pikachu there and i dont have much to say since you're better than i am XD. i would suggest jolting more if you get the chance: it does a fair amount of damage and could screw up and opponent's rhythm. as far as pika tricks, tail spike is the most important one, which you seem to have gotten down. check out the thread about the pika moonwalk, that's a nice one, otherwise, i dont think pika has any other "tricks;" someone can correct me if i'm wrong XD. also, if you havent yet, check out pictish freak's guide and n64's list of character matchups for pika.

 

[firexemblemxpryde]

Thanks for the reply.

My tailspiking isn't actually that good yet, I miss it like.. 50%. So I just nair them instead :| .

I will consider jolting more, it does like, 10%? Broken imho lol wtf.

Anything else? Technical ... ability doesn't matter, I'm pretty capable of learning. I realize my pikachu isn't the best, but there are a lot of really good pikachus around these threads with trixx up their sleeves.

 

[PsychopathicEmus]

well, for tail spiking i think this is how you do it:

normal: they're slightly in front and above and you're hitting them with sort of the tip but not the very tip of the tail..uh...i suppose you could call it the latter half of the tail XD

reverse: same as above except they're slightly behind and above

juggling: you're hitting them as your tail is horizontal or with the base of the tail

i'm pretty sure this is accurate, hope it helps =D

 

[Anther]

Pikachu has quite a number of random technical tricks he can pull off.
There are more essential ones that I hold pretty important... such as being able to:
-chainthrow a fastfaller to death on FD
-quick attack to the ledge confidently and consistently (So you don't hesitate and miss opportunities)
-basic wavedash maneuvers that most characters do (Getting to and returning from the ledge with WD)

Pikachu's really good at edgeguarding. Few characters have as many options or can create as much pressure as pikachu does when other characters are off the ledge as he can. You have ledgehopped dairs that work very well for those recoveries that you just can't tailspike. Then... tailspikes are amazing because of how high you can catch opponents that are trying to recover way up above the stage. Tailspikes are brutal, but I also noticed that I got into a rut for a bit where it was the only edgeguard I ever went for. Pika has at least 5 solid options to go after when edgeguarding, whether its a forward tilt after nairing back onto the stage, a WD into an upair, well placed thunderjolts... and he's just really good at being able to mix it up.

Also, there's some pretty good kill techniques once you have grabs against floaty characters that I'd forgotten for a while.. and even though they aren't always reliable, it's always good to have to think about. With a forward throw off the ledge, a lot of the time you can immediately dash into a dair and it's usually good enough to trade, even with something like marth's fair after the throw, which has landed me quite a few kills.

Dunno... I wanted to type more but ... dunno, there's almost too much to say... and I dunno what to talk about >.>...

 

[firexemblemxpryde]

Tell me everything, this is the kinda stuff i'm looking for. Do you mind watching the vids and telling me what I'm doing wrong? I recall telling you what you did wrong against Scotu. lol.

great info about the tailspike, btw.

 

[Anther]

When you wanna win. Use an attack that leads to a grab, use this to somehow lead to an edgeguard opportunity, and edgeguard like you know it's impossible for them to get back XD.

 

[festizzio]

I got my first horizontal thunder kill yesterday, it was on Battlefield against Dodger(kirby) and we had been playing for a while, so I kind of learned some of his patterns, so I had just died so I was on a fresh stock, he's standing on the far right ledge, I drop down below the middle platform, run in between the middle and right platform, thunder, and he rolls into it.

 

[PsychopathicEmus]

haha i got a horizontal thunder kill today in that school tournament thing. my opponent wasn't very good (but thought he was lol). i managed to KO a marth horizontally on the opposite side of where i was on dreamland 64 XD. i think the sad thing is, i got him up to that percentage without killing him X_X.

and firex, listen to anther, he is awesome =). i'd like to emphasize that pikachu is a very grabby character. people complain that i grab too much, but seriously, the grab is to pikachu as the shine is to fox in my opinion

 

[firexemblemxpryde]

Isn't Pikachu's grab range crappy? Which attacks lead to grab?

and can someone give me %'s + strat for the 0-death against spacies on FD? Or... a vid would do?

 

[Anther]

His grab range is bad... but especially against FF'ers a lot of things that you do can kinda just make them float into a grab. The best 0-death is a backthrow to tailspike... or backthrow to dair tailspike... whatever attack it takes for them to stay off the edge.
Since most of the chaingrabs don't start at 0%, getting a 0-death won't happen very often if they DI at all. Most of the CG's get easy at about 40% - %50, so if you get a grab in the middle of the stage, the u-throw CG should lead to stock, and if not, you can throw them off and edgeguard.

Rising u-air then FFing into a u-air can lead to a grab at the lower percents. At low-mid percents a nair can lead to a grab.

Yeah his grab range is bad, so the only time you can really shield grab is if they attack too early and land really close to you, otherwise you're usually better off keeping your shield up/rolling or doing a rising u-air if you're outside of the range of their shine. The good part is that on FD if you do grab, you get a pretty big advantage... The bad part is that I just find them very hard to fight on FD x_X...

And even though pika's grab range is bad, dashing in and jump cancelling his grabs make up for it a bit. It's still no marth grab range or even Fox, but it's still very usable and adds a lot of versatility to his other grab options...

 

[D. Disciple]

Alright I'm looking at these matches right now man.

1st - Match you ***** him hard. Made some errors in a few spots.

0:31-0 :33 - Even though it's a tiny error, you had the gimp but you didn't get to the edge fast enough, I dunno. You probably can wavedash to edgehog now, but I just wanted to point it out, since you tried to short hop and grab the edge, but falcon already got there.

:46-:53 - Bad choice of edgeguarding there, yes fsmash is wonderful, but you had better options, of grabbing the edge and going for a reverse tailspike, or going out and tailspiking him. Since he was able to get on the platform.

Other than that, you ***** the hell outta that falcon.

2nd Match - Not much to say, just work on JC grabs, Pika's dash grab is just terrible, the lag if you miss the lag pisses me off whenever I mess up a jc grab. Other than that you had really good mindgames, and again, wavedash to edgehog, or practice the quick attack edgehog.

That's it for the false falco matches.

Matches against Marth


Overview of all matches - Practice sweet spotting the edge with quick attack, when you're recovering, wavedash to edgehog, and quick attack edgehog tactics, practice those. You spammed fsmash a lot, you missed a lot of tail spike opportunities, and careful on counter picking green greens. Yes it has a low ceiling, and you can gimp players on that stage all day, but not good when you're playing a marth, and whenever he fsmashes, it can tipper you at any time on that stage, which can result in death.

Your pika is good, good mindgames, nice comboing skills. Your quick attacking is weird, especially when you used it as an attack. Don't do that unless you're trying to gimp them with it.

 

[firexemblemxpryde]

Thanks for the reply.

Yeah, I do see the errors I made in that first match. I think the random fsmashing was just to piss him off, I can't see myself doing that in an attempt to kill him. But how does one grab the edge and do a reverse tail spike? Ledgehop it? Do you have access to a hitbox picture of the uair?

I err, know how to quick attack edgehog from the stage now. But I don't really know the angles for when I'm recovering...

I was peer-pressured into counterpicking green greens. But say I wanted to counterpick against a:

Fox
Falco
Marth
Sheik
Ganon
Falcon

which stages would I take them to?

 

[PsychopathicEmus]

i like:

-marth: FD, pokemon stadium, corneria(this is a good one)
-falco: dreamland 64, pokemon stadium
-fox: FD, dreamland 64
-ganon: i dont know...never played a good ganon...i'd imagine FD, and corneria
-falcon: same as ganon...never really played a good one...
-sheik: not FD or YS

by the way,YS is a terrible stage for pikachu and i generally ban it...also, dont forget about pokefloats and rainbow cruise, which would probably be good stages against falcon and ganon...would probably get nana of the ICs killed too XD

 

[firexemblemxpryde]

I'm having so much trouble posting. Thanks for your input.

why Marth on corneria?

 

[D. Disciple]

I like YS dude, keep the pressure on them for a bit. Sure you'll get grab and can be troubling, but not if you're always platform sliding around, grabbing them and setting up for gimps, thunder flip combos or whatever.

I take anyone to Corneria with Pika, I'm too comfortable camping under that fin, and trapping them under the fin with fthrows.

 

[firexemblemxpryde]

So on Corneria, you go under the fin and camp?
And how do I chainthrow a fast faller? Just JC grab->uthrow? Until wh at percentage? Are both spacies the same to chainthrow?

 

[D. Disciple]

If you want to chain throw fast fallers you can get up to 90% by that time, you want to finish the kill with an usmash.

On corneria I like to just camp on the entire right side of the stage, I sweet spot the fin with quick attack, drop down and do aerials, spam jolts from above and under the fin, hit them with thunder if they try to jump over. Just as long as you're good at teching walls, and Smash DIing, or DIing in general toward the fin and teching it. You should be fine.

Let them come to you on Corneria don't go to them, unless that person is Simna or something, then be careful.

 

[PsychopathicEmus]

isn't it bad to take spacies there? i mean...with the reflector and fox's uair and usmash, not to mention falco's dtilt and bair, pika won't last very long.

 

[Anther]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk3vV-dVrqE
Nothing to do with anything but was fun in the funny way =p.

 

[firexemblemxpryde]

...I think you've just obliged yourself to making me a Pikachu Movement video, Anther. I've seen your vids before, and you're the man to do it.

... DO IT. I'll totally take the first post on the thread. =D=D

plzkthx =D

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

*Ness and Pikachu attempt a high-five.*
*both of them have arms that are too short, they miss, and they fall on their faces*

who thinks pika's grab should use his tail? i think they should add that in the next online patch for melee

 

[N64]

silly simna
pikachu grabs everything with his teeth. He apparently has neither opposable thumbs nor a prehensile tail.
Ness should definately grab with his yoyo though. Or his mind. Probably his mind.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

yeah ness' grab should hit like his dash attack

EDIT: but on both sides

EDIT2: and above him

EDIT3: and down thru platforms

 

[festizzio]

I thought this was a Pikachu discussion thread not a Ness discussion thread.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

I thought this was a Pikachu discussion thread not a Ness discussion thread.

You'll never increase pika's grab range with that kind of attitude

 

[festizzio]

You'll never increase pika's grab range with that kind of attitude

Never say never.

 

[mikeHAZE]

never never never

 

[PsychopathicEmus]

what does ness have anything to do with pika's grab range, might i ask? =p

pikachu's grab should be a cage of electricity that traps the opponent at any range and pikachu can just walk up and physically grab him/her/it =D

 

[Scissors Sir]

yeah ness' grab should hit like his dash attack

EDIT: but on both sides

EDIT2: and above him

EDIT3: and down thru platforms

so this is how moderators get their post counts in the thousands...lol

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Pikachu is underrated.

Also, I use him in teams sometimes and he's very effective.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

so this is how moderators get their post counts in the thousands...lol

yeah....we're really bad at it tho...since we edit our posts instead of making new ones

wow my post per day count is low


lololololololololololol

 

[pikachun00b7]

A vote for Rudy Giuliani is a vote for increasing Pikachu's grab range.

No matter what those lying crats say.

 

[Fogo]

i like that electric cage thing, but he should have a throw involving iron tail to go with it, hmm...

 

[N64]

Pikachu is underrated.

Also, I use him in teams sometimes and he's super effective.

fixed

tenchars