Pika Q&A/FAQ Thread: Ask a Quick Question, Get a Quick Answer!

[Player -0]

ESAM is coming to "local" SC tournament on March 1st. There isn't going to be brawl though.

 

[Ookami Hajime]

Ah, I see~

 

[Thor]

From what I read the past few pages, SH fair is minus on shield, edge slip isn't based on percent, jab LOCK only works at like 60+ (There was a thread that detailed percents a while ago) but it will force a get-up at all %s, and....2v1s are never advantageous.

Nice to see you back! I had a question about fair on hit so I'll ask it again after restating the main points.

From all the testing and usage against other players I've done, I'm nearly positive that when you fair someone, if you hit them (not their shield but do damage to them) and fastfall the fair so you land in the middle of the fair, you have a frame advantage because of the relatively low landing lag of fair and their hitstun (the final blow of fair does NOT connect here, ex.: SHFFfair would land in the middle of the fair). I have seen that I'm able to land a dsmash out of this, but not a usmash (though there seems to be a perfect height where I hit them and very late in hitstun they land so they have landing lag and the usmash links properly). So my question:

How much of a frame advantage does landing in the middle of a fair give, and what moves properly link as a result?

Do to what I've checked, I think the frame advantage is 6 to 8 frames, and all my tests suggest jab, dsmash (Frame 6), grab (frame 6), and ftilt (frame 5) for sure link, but I'm wondering if the advantage is big enough to land a utilt (frame 7 if you land so they are behind you) or dtilt (also frame 7), or maybe even a nair (nair is frame 3 and I think Pika's jumpsquat is like 4 frames, 3+4 = 7?). If so, this could be hugely useful for landing KO moves - just have to land a fair near enough the ground to land with them being hit near landing. Thanks if you have any data, if not it's all good.

 

[1PokeMastr]

I'm pretty sure fair isn't positive on hit either.

 

[Mr.Pikachu]

What do you mean by weaving and crossing them up? Also ESAM it's just those times when you're in a 2vs2 but you're partner kind of sucks and you end up being 2vs1 so it's mainly up to you to win the match. Also I just love being 2vs1, it's just really fun and speeds up my reaction times.

 

[1PokeMastr]

You still lose if you get grabbed.

 

[Ookami Hajime]

2v1 situations are not fun, my friend. Unless you're river-dancing on casuals, you'll probably be pretty irritated that you're in that position.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Checked Fair in frame advance, too lazy to check 4th hit.

Pikachu Fair at 80%
Hit 1 = +4
Hit 2 = +7
Hit 3 = +0

I assume it has to do with distance fair, was started at, but whatever.

You have at least +5.
So enough time to Grab.

This was tested with No Di.

Edit: Obviously Di would skew these numbers, but I'm not checking that.

 

[Thor]

Huh that's really odd, I've never had problems landing the dsmash at any number of hits even when my opponent is holding shield, or else I'm just really really lucky with my hit counts on fair... dsmash is frame 6, so... huh. Is frame advance software for checking out frame by frame stuff (like a TAS except you're obviously not speed-running but data-checking) or something else? Those numbers just...aren't what I expected.

EDIT: Also, is it really n00by that I vertical momentum cancel with the c-stick flicked down (as Pikachu and Falco)? Most pros seem to use the move fastest for momentum cancelling in general but I read that c-sticking it still starts the FF right away, is this incorrect and I should switch to making sure to uair-FF for best results? (I already know the c-stick method fails for TL, ZSS, Sheik, etc., but I don't use them currently.)

EDIT EDIT: Pikachu's QA #2 and jumping out of QA from a QAC apparently have RCO lag. If I autocancel an aerial does that reduce lag, or do I just try to land in a safe spot with a fair (Ex: If I grab the ledge and roll on, would an autocancelled dair or fair be better for lag than just a short hop or regular fair)?

 

[Pikabunz]

@ 1PokeMastr - There are many factors that would skew those numbers. The frame you land on after the last hit, the character's fall speed and weight, and the freshness of fair.

@ Thor - Using c-stick down to vertical momentum cancel is fine.
An autocanceled anything gives the same lag as landing without an aerial.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Yeah, I forgot to add that I tested on Falco and it was a fresh fair, my apologies.

On hit 3 in my test, Pikachu shielded on the same frame Falco jumped.

It looked like Falco had 3 frames air time before landing then you add on the hard landing which is 4 frames.

And a whole bunch of other mumbo jumbo that isn't necessary.

Just keep doing what you do.

 

[Angiance]

I love D-Tilt~

 

[1PokeMastr]

Pika-scarring where you Up B to the ledge then land on stage, that doesn't give Pikachu RCO right ? Because only the first hit of Up B happened, not the second ?

 

[Angiance]

No, it doesn't give us RCO frames :3

 

[AtneyB]

Assuming you didn't maintain it from your previous actions or/and actually do the trick with the first hit like you mentioned it.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Wait, there won't be Brawl at that SC tournament? Sadface...

Fair isn't plus until super high % which is why I rarely FF fair do something, I'll tend to shield in fear of retaliation.

Autocancelling doesn't get rid of RCO lag, but you only experience RCO lag and not extra lag from a move, let's say. Scarring also doesn't give you RCO lag, but you will experience it if you already have it.

 

[Angiance]

Our N-Air, just how good is it's hitbox?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Nair isn't a great hitbox generally, but if people are hitting our shields with anything that isn't disjointed we can **** them up for it

 

[Angiance]

N-Air's initial hitbox had me wondering, being able to counter MK's Glide Attack (although Glide Attack's hitbox is easy to attack through regardless)

U-Smash shouldn't ever be used as the opponent is falling, since it's too easy to AD > Shield, correct?

 

[hell-dew]

I have a question about Nair People have told me in the past that you can use Nair Against Falco and Fox`s fire fox. I tried testing it out both with the weak hitbox and the strong hit box and have almost never had it work out in my favor. is this a time/spacing this or is it even a viable strategy to use against them (mainly in situations where their recovering of course)

 

[Ookami Hajime]

@ Angiance : U-smash can be a good tool when they're falling if you predict the air dodge and just follow their landing instead.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

if you air dodge into the ground you have 4 frames of vulnerability before you can shield, so if you can time your U-smash correctly you are golden. It's hard to do this since hitboxes don't come out in front at the beginning of the attack, so you have to do it preemptively.

You can use nair vs firefox, just at the right angle. It depends on where the hitbox of the firefox is.

Nair doens't beat MK glide attack...it will clash and then MK will probably be on the ground while you are in the air, which is highly disadvantageous. Bair/fair are way better.

 

[Angiance]

Hm? I recall N-Air being able to simultaneously clash with GA AND hit MK, but alright.

Pika's general game seems like ground traps

 

[Player -0]

Wait, there won't be Brawl at that SC tournament? Sadface...

Fair isn't plus until super high % which is why I rarely FF fair do something, I'll tend to shield in fear of retaliation.

Autocancelling doesn't get rid of RCO lag, but you only experience RCO lag and not extra lag from a move, let's say. Scarring also doesn't give you RCO lag, but you will experience it if you already have it.

There's only going to be P:M, Melee, and SSB64. Brawl isn't being done because it takes too long (ask them).

Hm? I recall N-Air being able to simultaneously clash with GA AND hit MK, but alright.

Pika's general game seems like ground traps

ANYTHING with a hitbox will clash with MK's glide attack. The trick is to use a multihit move so the first hit clashes and you use the other hits to actually do damage.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Angiance]

Oh no, you're right, pika ^ ^

 

[Thor]

Stuff clanks with glide attack? That's not been my experience... must have really terrible timing...

For nairing out of Fire Fox/Fire Bird I think you're supposed to like jump in diagonally so to speak (like if they're going diagonally up right you jump in from the lower right to intercept them at a perpendicular angle) but I'm not sure. That's what has worked for me the few times I've tried it (I usually just try to time a Thunder properly to **** them up since I rarely get them offstage below the level at low percents, thank you chaingrabs).

Pikachu's best response to MK dair camping using the SV platform [they use it for landings and camp around its level] = ? I have my own stuff but I'm wonder if there's a better way...

Also can a properly spaced SH-Dair punish MK fsmash? I've been trying it out and it seems to work sometimes (like, start the jump outside fsmash range while it's being started/charged and land the dair on them while moving in) but not others. Terrible idea or just needs polish? (I know t-jolt works too but dair tends to be about double the damage.)

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

You only nair a firefox on start-up. When it is moving the nair hitbox will be too small.

SV vs MK is terrible, nuff said. Challenge it with intelligence only when above the stage, not when offstage.

No, MK's F-smash hits pikachu if you try to SH dair

 

[Angiance]

Counter F-Smash: FH T-Jolt or P-Shield > Dash Grab

Hey, ESAM, you seem to FH T-Jolt too much sometimes

Why doesnt anyone ever use QA to get down from the air, tons of mixes

 

[Player -0]

Counter F-Smash: FH T-Jolt or P-Shield > Dash Grab

Hey, ESAM, you seem to FH T-Jolt too much sometimes

Why doesnt anyone ever use QA to get down from the air, tons of mixes

Probably RCO lag, also QA's hurtboxes stretch weirdly so you can probably get hit from a dumb distance.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

First off you have to be close enough to land on the ground, in which case a lot of characters can hit you on start-up or it becomes a 50/50 for no reason when you could just land normally, where you have a lot of options. On a platformed stage like BF it's godlike tho.

Oh lord Angiance, what do you recommend me do instead? Get pushed to the edge since T-jolt is the only way to gain stage presence?

 

[Ookami Hajime]

FH Jolt is actually something that you should actually use more of, Angiance =o The matches I've seen of you, you don't use much at all.
As ESAM said, FH Jolting gets you stage presence and, you know, it's kind of an amazing projectile. Helps Pika with pretty much everything; approaching, retreating, converting, scoring a grab, getting percent, and irritating people.
Also, people DO QA to the ground from the air. But if you're asking why some don't, it's because QA simply isn't even close to safe. It's great if they don't predict it, but if there's a safer way to get to the ground, I would take that option. Avoid getting shuttle-looped =I

 

[Angiance]

Oh no-no-no, I'm fully aware of how crucial T-Jolt is, it's just I noticed you got punished alot for it; don't use it so repetitively

 

[Thor]

SV vs MK is terrible, nuff said

I don't fully understand what this means... Are you saying don't challenge an MK who's landing on SV platform and dair-camping with it?

[for the other part] Huh. Got it about SH-Dair. Should I even look to do a descending aerial or is that too aggressive, just look to T-jolt it [ex: FH Dair from the skies or a landing nair]?

Oh no-no-no, I'm fully aware of how crucial T-Jolt is, it's just I noticed you got punished alot for it; don't use it so repetitively

He's not repetitive with it... not what I've seen. Like, if they're not approaching, they're not going to punish him, and I'm guessing the punishes themselves aren't repetitive (it's not like that one time where Mekos landed like 7 PK fires on a Sonic in a row, I think it might've been McSpeedy or Espy? and that was the Sonic's fault), also it's probably just "Oops they're closer than I thought" or "They read me" not "Derp he's like a dtilt away from me let's FH t-jolt anyway."

Perhaps most importantly, you're hardly in a position to critique ESAM - he's far better than any of us, at least as of now. On a related note to the above paragraph, I was told once to do an ever-so-slightly punishable thing a lot, at least until they punish it well, so that when you're each at 90%, you fake it and punish hard when you're prepared for their punish. It's not something I do much, mind you, but I think FH T-jolting a little too much might be good so that if you do it once late percents, you can jump again, they'll rush to punish, but you SH so you're on the ground and ready to meet them. So it's very possible that's exactly what ESAM is trying to do.

 

[Player -0]

I don't fully understand what this means... Are you saying don't challenge an MK who's landing on SV platform and dair-camping with it?

[for the other part] Huh. Got it about SH-Dair. Should I even look to do a descending aerial or is that too aggressive, just look to T-jolt it [ex: FH Dair from the skies or a landing nair]?



He's not repetitive with it... not what I've seen. Like, if they're not approaching, they're not going to punish him, and I'm guessing the punishes themselves aren't repetitive (it's not like that one time where Mekos landed like 7 PK fires on a Sonic in a row, I think it might've been McSpeedy or Espy? and that was the Sonic's fault), also it's probably just "Oops they're closer than I thought" or "They read me" not "Derp he's like a dtilt away from me let's FH t-jolt anyway."

Perhaps most importantly, you're hardly in a position to critique ESAM - he's far better than any of us, at least as of now. On a related note to the above paragraph, I was told once to do an ever-so-slightly punishable thing a lot, at least until they punish it well, so that when you're each at 90%, you fake it and punish hard when you're prepared for their punish. It's not something I do much, mind you, but I think FH T-jolting a little too much might be good so that if you do it once late percents, you can jump again, they'll rush to punish, but you SH so you're on the ground and ready to meet them. So it's very possible that's exactly what ESAM is trying to do.

Don't you know? I'm better than Esam.

I feel like U-Air at the front tip *sends them behind you* can lead to Up Smash.

 

[Thor]

Don't you know? I'm better than Esam.

Then go place high at nationals and prove that PIka MK is 0 and shut h8ters up.

Also are good at Pika dittos? If so MM ESAM then.

Still have my other questions from above.

 

[Player -0]

Then go place high at nationals and prove that PIka MK is 0 and shut h8ters up.

Also are good at Pika dittos? If so MM ESAM then.

Still have my other questions from above.

Pikachu / Metaknight is obviously 90-10 in favor of Pikachu, you guys just aren't playing the match up right and destroying scrubs like M2K, Anti, ZeRo, and Nairo.

ESAM isn't good if he can't beat noobs like M2K consistently, I bet I'd wipe the floor with him, JV 5 stock.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

SV is terrible against MK because of the enormous help the platform is for MK compared to Pikachu. Hell, I don't even like FD in the MU personally, we need stagnant platforms to retreat to and we are mobile enough so we won't get stuck on platforms (Such as PS1/BF) But the SV platform helps him frame trap us more than normal and it also gives a safe retreat for tornado...which is really aggravating.

 

[Angiance]

I lack tournament experience (and money) but god dammit, I study, review, theorize, and question my questions/answers about pika, everyday. I just happened to notice as I was pausing a tournament match every quarter-second (to study situations from varying perspectives), that ESAM was getting punished for FH T-Jolt a few times, so why not tell him?

 

[Ookami Hajime]

@ Angiance : There's nothing wrong with stating that, Angiance. We're just giving our input on the subject and letting you know why he does it. It's all good, friend =o

@Eeveryone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXCQHxSjq8U

Critique my pika, pweeease? >w<'

 

[PZ]

@ Angiance : There's nothing wrong with stating that, Angiance. We're just giving our input on the subject and letting you know why he does it. It's all good, friend =o

@Eeveryone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXCQHxSjq8U

Critique my pika, pweeease? >w<'

It didn't seem like the mk knew exactly what he was doing. I am only saying this because of occasional dsmash spam and the fact that usmash was actually used...
Well I guess I could say in my opinion the way your were using dair during that match was inappropriate but it is somewhat of a great counter to a few of mk's approaches with timing. You were kinda just throwing it out there though.
You must believe more in your SH/FH uair OOS shield option. When you blocked his attacks from behind you would do some form of dodge or other attack that may or may not have been fast enough to punish.
My last piece of advice would be to not give up stage control often when you take out your opponent's stock. I personally like to move around the opponent when they are invincible rather than moving away from them.