Pika Q&A/FAQ Thread: Ask a Quick Question, Get a Quick Answer!

[Ookami Hajime]

It didn't seem like the mk knew exactly what he was doing. I am only saying this because of occasional dsmash spam and the fact that usmash was actually used...
Well I guess I could say in my opinion the way your were using dair during that match was inappropriate but it is somewhat of a great counter to a few of mk's approaches with timing. You were kinda just throwing it out there though.
You must believe more in your SH/FH uair OOS shield option. When you blocked his attacks from behind you would do some form of dodge or other attack that may or may not have been fast enough to punish.
My last piece of advice would be to not give up stage control often when you take out your opponent's stock. I personally like to move around the opponent when they are invincible rather than moving away from them.

Oh, I see =o
I'll work on it~!
Yes, he's just recently started playing MK.

 

[Player -0]

I concur with the MK being new, he missed a lot of things like Dair camping by the ledge to hinder you (1:09), Not punishing you with Up Air or Fair at the ledge (1:20), Rushing from the ledge instead of knocking you away with an aerial. Just a bunch of stuff.

Critiques -
- If you're going to go for the jab trip then follow up with a quick Up-Smash or Grab unless they have good reactions. If not then just use down tilt to knock away.

- I agree with the "you need to trust your OoS options" made by the other person (I'm not going back to check who, heh). You missed a lot of OoS Up-Airs and Nairs one example of which would be (3:44). In my example you may have been going for a jab in case he canceled the SL immediately so maybe that's just a bad example. You missed a lot of OoS Up Airs through out the match though.

- Looking through the match a bit more you should probably tone down your use of Jab, you'll get Down Smashed or SL'ed a lot. (End of the game is a GREAT example)

- Rewatching the match again you should go for a straight grab after a bad 'Nado (0:38). It's more guaranteed and you have no chance of being punished if you do it right (Jab doesn't always trip).

I think we could give better critique if we watched you vs. an experienced MK.

 

[Ookami Hajime]

I concur with the MK being new, he missed a lot of things like Dair camping by the ledge to hinder you (1:09), Not punishing you with Up Air or Fair at the ledge (1:20), Rushing from the ledge instead of knocking you away with an aerial. Just a bunch of stuff.

Critiques -
- If you're going to go for the jab trip then follow up with a quick Up-Smash or Grab unless they have good reactions. If not then just use down tilt to knock away.

- I agree with the "you need to trust your OoS options" made by the other person (I'm not going back to check who, heh). You missed a lot of OoS Up-Airs and Nairs one example of which would be (3:44). In my example you may have been going for a jab in case he canceled the SL immediately so maybe that's just a bad example. You missed a lot of OoS Up Airs through out the match though.

- Looking through the match a bit more you should probably tone down your use of Jab, you'll get Down Smashed or SL'ed a lot. (End of the game is a GREAT example)

- Rewatching the match again you should go for a straight grab after a bad 'Nado (0:38). It's more guaranteed and you have no chance of being punished if you do it right (Jab doesn't always trip).

I think we could give better critique if we watched you vs. an experienced MK.

Most jabs were misbuffered d-tilts.
Thanks though!

 

[Thor]

SV is terrible against MK because of the enormous help the platform is for MK compared to Pikachu. Hell, I don't even like FD in the MU personally, we need stagnant platforms to retreat to and we are mobile enough so we won't get stuck on platforms (Such as PS1/BF) But the SV platform helps him frame trap us more than normal and it also gives a safe retreat for tornado...which is really aggravating.

So the best way to deal with MK dair camping using SV platform is... ban SV? Then, what are our best/worst stages in order against MK (starters please, if you're feeling generous then a list that includes PS1, Frigate, Defino, Castle Siege, Halberd, and any other CP stages I missed, can just be a general breakdown/tiering of the stages from great for us to never go there if you can help it)? This will help a lot, both for the 2 good MK mains in my state and for if I get to travel.

EDIT: Ookami, maybe this isn't necessarily your best play or whatever but it's an awesome comeback: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bcECDB-HMc

Solid job!

 

[Angiance]

Start almost every match with FH T-Jolt pika

00:10
After U-Smash you retreat; MK was offstage, you had the advantage, why'd you drop it?

00:18
again, you had the advantage, there was no reason for you to go up there, just Thunder

00:20
After U-Tilt, it'd have been better to vertically space U-Air to the tip as it'd have conditioned the MK more (U-Air stupid good for that, and baiting)

00:22
if the opponent is on the ledge, we can set our shield at the edge as a trap for anything, our OoS play is explosive

00:28
Love that QA mix, so adowable <3 <3 <3
You could've (should've) N-Air'd after the U-Air, but you probably just didn't have enough reaction time ^ ^;

00:37
Love that Jab; jump cancel U-Smash OoS, or SH N-Air OoS

00:42
Dat airdodge

01:03
FORWARD ROLL or Retreat FH T-Jolt OoS

01:22
SH N-AIR MY PIKA. You dropped your shield, that's 7 frames of us standing still like a tard, train yourself to not drop your shield in moments where instant results are needed

01:24
Retreat T-Jolt to the ledge

01:26
No need to Skull Bash pika, U-Air would've been fine for momentum cancelling

01:30
It seems like you were intending to hit the ledge with QA, but I'll say this anyways; train yourself in those situations to do the 2nd QA diagonally downwards back onstage

01:41
SD, what crappy MK

01:48
SHIELD GRAB, THAT'S HOW IT'S DONE MY PIKA!!! <3 <3 ^ . ^ ^ . ^

Although, you should've threw him back offstage, sexy grab regardless

01:50
In these situations, it's much more beneficial to SH aerials to pressure the opponent into something stupid, all of our SH aerials hit through those bottom platforms (even SH N-Air, although it's impractical)

01:56
Now, on the ledge try not being offensive, ever; focus on safely getting back onstage

02:15
Splendid, Dash Grab after D-Tilt is great after D-Tilt, though you could've SH N-Air'd after D-Throw

02:18
Like I said before, SH those aerials when the opponent is on a platform, shark-shark-shark, it"s better for stage control

02:23
AGGH, that was perfect timing for OoS play, you'd have gotten SH U-Air > N-Air!

That's all I'll say, don't wanna overload ya pika. Ugh, what an awful MK. Love that background for bf btw! :3​

 

[Ookami Hajime]

So the best way to deal with MK dair camping using SV platform is... ban SV? Then, what are our best/worst stages in order against MK (starters please, if you're feeling generous then a list that includes PS1, Frigate, Defino, Castle Siege, Halberd, and any other CP stages I missed, can just be a general breakdown/tiering of the stages from great for us to never go there if you can help it)? This will help a lot, both for the 2 good MK mains in my state and for if I get to travel.

EDIT: Ookami, maybe this isn't necessarily your best play or whatever but it's an awesome comeback: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bcECDB-HMc

Solid job!

Thank you!

That's all I'll say, don't wanna overload ya pika. Ugh, what an awful MK. Love that background for bf btw! :3​

Thanks for the critique~!
The reason I didn't n-air after the down throw is mainly because I haven't perfected my knowledge of the percentages for it and I couldn't recall.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

List of starters vs MK from best to worst
BF
FD
Lylat
Smashville
Yoshi's

 

[Angiance]

BF is definitely our best stage, unless RC is there

Yeah, the percents are pretty importan, Ookami

 

[Thor]

Wait RC is better for us vs MK?

Also does this mean against a smart MK I should expect to start each set on Lylat? Also what happened to "FD is not that good for us?" Is BF our only good stage vs MK then? Or do you just personally dislike FD?

So my counterpick stages then are BF, PS1, and is there a third good one? (If there is I avoid bans and DSR which is great).

Is there some thread for Pikachu where I can get a dissection of what each stage's pros and cons are for Pikachu? I don't want to waste ESAM's time here but I'd really like to know because I always felt really comfortable on Yoshi's against the one Diddy Kong I sometimes see...

 

[Ookami Hajime]

Are we only talking about MK?
At tournament, I generally never go to FD because I personally hate the stage. Like, a lot.
I ALWAYS ban lylat because that level itself tries to kill me.
My counterpick is PS1 if I don't decide to go back to SV. Rainbow cruise is banned down here in Florida so I don't really play there much.

 

[Thor]

Are we only talking about MK?
At tournament, I generally never go to FD because I personally hate the stage. Like, a lot.
I ALWAYS ban lylat because that level itself tries to kill me.
My counterpick is PS1 if I don't decide to go back to SV. Rainbow cruise is banned down here in Florida so I don't really play there much.

We were talking about MK for those stages I think, but I meant in general for a stage theory thing.

I think good stages vs bad stages for Pikachu will change if you are facing a Kirby or MK or Peach or Olimar or Diddy or Ganon or Falco... I don't know but I didn't think a stage universally helps or hurts Pikachu, which is why I wanted to know if there was a thread for Pikachu and stages.

I like most stages actually, I'm sort of used to FD but I usually pick stages I think my opponents hate, so Lylat is a common CP for me except against people I can CG [Snake, Falco, etc.] (then I go FD if I can). As a result in Melee I play on FoD a lot because so many people in MN are annoyed by variable platform height and I don't care. If my opponent is equally apathetic I'm inclined to go based on their character (Marths I like SV, MKs I prefer FD but that's cuz my platform skillz need work [by that I mean exploiting platforms {QAC on them and stuff} in stead of just using them] and I like taking Lucario to BF. Diddy I'll take to Yoshi's or Lylat if I can. Olimar on Frigate all year of course. I default to SV, Lylat, or FD based on bans and DSR if I'm completely unsure of where to go. [those 3 are in no particular order]

Although that's probably a byproduct of not practicing enough, not something to be glad about...

I also have no idea if my preferences are actually strategic or not, which is why I'd like more intelligent insight into the matter.

 

[Angiance]

Well, certain characters will have an advantage over us on certain stages. Personally, I feel like any situation can be adapted to (regardless of stage choice) but it's always good to have the advantage, or avoid the disadvantage

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

That was the vaguest statement ever lol

 

[Angiance]

Got somethin' better? *smirk*

 

[Strong Badam]

That was the vaguest statement ever lol

I feel like I learned so much from his statement though.

 

[Angiance]

I feel like I learned so much from his statement though.

Guess what I learned...that you're a horse's ass *smile*

 

[Ookami Hajime]

@ Angiance : Oh God, Angiance, calm down and stop turning this into a thread full of drama =I

I also have no idea if my preferences are actually strategic or not, which is why I'd like more intelligent insight into the matter.

Nope, your good. Sounds legitimate to me.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Awwwww **** Angiance with that fight tho~

 

[Player -0]

Suddenly Angiance uses Swagger!

It's super effective!

Strong Bad and ESAM's attack raises greatly!

Strong Bad and ESAM are confused!

 

[Ookami Hajime]

Hey ESAM, do you think we could ever play some time? You play with Jeff, right?

Suddenly Angiance uses Swagger!

It's super effective!

Strong Bad and ESAM's attack raises greatly!

Strong Bad and ESAM are confused!

Oh God, that was amazing. You're a clever man, my friend.

 

[Phoenix Lord']

How can Swagger be super effective?

 

[Player -0]

How can Swagger be super effective?

Idk, It just happened.

Edit - They got super confused?

 

[Angiance]

I fully apologize, what I said was completely unnecessary

Any questions people?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Hey ESAM, do you think we could ever play some time? You play with Jeff, right?

No...no i do not play with Jeff. First off, I go to school in South Carolina. 2nd off, even when I DO live in Florida, I live in Miami...which is approximately 3.5 hours away from Orlando. So no in both cases, unless when I'm down I decide to go to an Orland tournament and you might be able to see me there.

 

[Ookami Hajime]

No...no i do not play with Jeff. First off, I go to school in South Carolina. 2nd off, even when I DO live in Florida, I live in Miami...which is approximately 3.5 hours away from Orlando. So no in both cases, unless when I'm down I decide to go to an Orland tournament and you might be able to see me there.

Oh God, I've been living a lie lol
Okay then.

 

[Mr.Pikachu]

Sooooooo...is it just me or do we have like some characters that we literally hate the **** out of? Me, I get beat by Kirby too often even if the Kirby IS noobish and if I play a ditto match I'll mostly likely lose which is stupid. Anyways anyone know how to deal with rollers? Super annoying cause I have this one kirby player just roll>roll>roll>fsmash. Normally I would read it and prepare a fistful of an amazing fsmash, but I'd have to shield cause he might roll in front of me or behind me then fsmash.

 

[Ookami Hajime]

Every player in the world wishes that their opponent would roll that much. It's just easy tech chases for day; follow and grab.

 

[Thor]

Or just jump away from the roll and shoot a t-jolt. Or if you're not sure if he'll be in front or behind you, you can always laugh and try for the Thunder (hits both sides).

I have Kirby problems too but the Kirby I face is actually good (a lot of people on here told me he's like top 5 Kirby in North America at least) but I don't really HATE Kirby, I just now am trying to find a Kirby counter I can use well, which is absurd to even say (at this point this Kirby I face is more difficult/scary to face than our state's best active MK for me... even typing that makes me feel lame but it's true).

 

[Angiance]

How to TERMINATE rollers

#1: SH D-Air (AC'd)

#2: Boost Pivot Grab

#3: D-Smash

#4: Grounded Thunder

#5: Retreat FH T-Jolt


Kirby's best weapons

B-Air (rock solid hitbox + speedy)

U-Tilt (Fast + string starter)

Grab (good range + plus decent throw strings)

Inhale (very good range, unblockable)

Our moveset trumps his...practice people. Any Kirby questions?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Inhale is actually terrible for Kirby becuase if we are on the ground we can just roll away from it.

 

[Angiance]

Inhale seems like a decent mix, but yeah.

​

Pikas, Kirby's only useful smash is D-Smash

 

[Thor]

Inhale is a funny counter-edgeguard if you're not careful with how you try to knock Kirby back offstage though (it's happened to me...). Mind going over again for me Angiance or ESAM which moves in our moveset beat Kirby's best moves? I think you might've done this earlier but I didn't take notes, forgot, and don't want to page through all this again...

And just what is a "boost pivot grab"? I know a pivot grab is turn around and grab at the same time (I need to work on those) and a boost grab is where you dash-attack-cancelled-grab, but what does combining those mean?

And no, Kirby's fsmash is fast and has good knockback, it's a powerful landing trap and it has fairly low ending lag so it's not terribly punishable if being used to read a recovery or something like that [fsmash is way too slow - I think even if you powershield, think they can just powershield your fsmash and then fsmash you and you can't powershield that follow up]. It can also be angled to be somewhat of an anti-air attack.

 

[Angiance]

Vs B-Air - Upwards F-Tilt, OoS play, BPG, U-Tilt

Vs U-Tilt/Grab - stay out of range, very easy to do

Boost Pivot Grab: A sliding pivot grab; assuming you're facing right, snap the joystick left then right and Z simultaneously

Kirby's F-Smash is no threat to us

Vs F-Smash - BPG, Stutterstep F-Smash, F-Tilt, OoS play

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Kirby's F-smash is by far his best smash attack, like by a lot. D-smash is slower/weaker, and same with U-smash, and BOTH have less range.

Try to stay in front of kirby at all times. Uair is great vs him. If you are behind him, try to be facing away from kirby so you can punish a land bair with an OOS uair. T-jolt is realistically our best move vs Kirby since it makes him give up ground positioning which allows us to have stage control for the majority of the match. His tilts are good but we can punish them with OOS stuff and they aren't too dangerous on hit outside of a d-tilt trip.

Remember to SDI the f-throw uair UP and AWAY

 

[Angiance]

D-Smash = Frame 10

F-Smash = Frame 12

 

[hell-dew]

Dsmash has more range more damage more knock back. Jolt is your best friend in this MU spacing them is really good. never let kirby eat you. kirby can outplay pikachu at the jolt game so dont let him get them thx esam for the SDI advice to didnt know that

Edit Ment Fsmash.... silly typo

 

[Angiance]

Okay...D-Smash comes out faster, not as much power, but it's out faster, it also has less range, as ESAM said. D-Smash's tips have horizontal knockback, while the inside of D-Smash has vertical knockback. SDI is so broken, loves it. Thanks ESAM

 

[Mr.Pikachu]

How much better (or stronger) does kirby get if he copies our tjolts?

 

[Angiance]

Well, since Kirby has multiple hops he is CAPABLE of better usage; however, a Kirby main wouldn't be as good with T-Jolts as a Pikachu main, I would hope

 

[Mr.Pikachu]

Well it seems like kirby would lose his ability to kirbycide, but then again what if the kirby actually knew how to use tjolts efficiently? He wouldn't have to approach (nor would we but it's more of a camping battle) better airgame than us too I think.