Pichu Competitive

[soju]

The biggest thing is range in attacks, pichu doesn't have it, pikachu does, namely uair which goes way in front of pikachu and pretty much reverses role due to its knockback angle as you'll most likely be edgeguarding after. You already said Pika's WD is sexy which is true, which makes his wd onto stage that much better. His get-up attacks go farther, and a big big thing is the roll onto stage, Pichu's roll, perhaps the smallest roll in the game, is not really a viable option. True Pichu can do anything Pikachu, but a lot of stuff aren't as viable as Pika's. So that's why I say they are about even.

 

[Prince_Abu]

they arent even, pikachu >>>> pichu

 

[Spyro]

Even? Pikachu is a whole lot better than Pichu. Pichu is not even viable as a secondary IMO. I could only see someone useing Pichu in friendlies. But I think Aesir wants to be the Gimpyfish of Pichu. O and Aesir, you should watch this video, it should help.

 

[soju]

._. Read some more, I said the ledge options are about equal.

 

[Prince_Abu]

they arent, pichu is just bad in general, pikachu and pichu arent even comparable, pika is better at everything

 

[soju]

Ughh, what else would I expect from someone who uses such an easy character. :/ Anyways this board is lame and no one wants to learn anything, peace out.

 

[DerfMidWest]

I like learning, but nobody talks to me .-.
except abu, but he annoys me.

 

[Cubelarooso]

You're forgetting that, while it has greater landlag, QA itself is faster than Agility. Plus, Pikachu fastfalls faster. So Pika's Up-B options are overall equal or faster than Pichu's. Not to mention, more viable since QA goes farther, has a hitbox, and no self-damage.
I also personally think you're overestimating wall-jump's utility, but maybe I'm just not inventive enough.
So yeah, I'd say even, at least.

 

[DerfMidWest]

the walljump is amazing. There is so much you can use it for. like wall jumping. and then thundering on their head.

the one frame of lag allows you to attack people right out of agility, which is pretty cool.

QA is faster and goes further, but both are able to get to the necessary platform to ledge cancel (pichu's doesn't need to ledgecancel though)

now then, in terms of just smacking the opponent from the ledge, Pika wins. His uair is an amazing move and has the range of a house. But pichu has a lot more useful things he can do in terms of mobility from the ledge.

 

[KingClubber]

he also has a crappy sideB - so does pichu
And his nair isn't Pichu's. - true
His jumps feel stupid. - i disagree, he just jumps a bit to high
I hate his Bair. - no comment
I really dislike his fsmash. - no comment
His usmash sucks when you hit stuff behind you. - should have used d-smash instead
His dsmash doesn't gimp people. - doesn't need to it's a lead
He has a worse shield and grab range. - true
less off the ledge options. - Not true, its about the same
UpB has tons of landing lag. - true, but pichu is special
he runs slow and has no walljump - no comment

Aesir what pichu has getting on stage from ledge, pikachu has off stage guarding the ledge. Pikachu is overall faster then pichu, so his slowness doesn't over effect him. Pichu's key weaknesses holds him back way to much, which prevents him from being any better the what he is. Its the reason why people say kirby is better then pichu.

Because even if kirby sucks, kirby still has better range, and won't die as quick pichu. And kirby's Swallowcide is a effective killing move.

theoretically - Each character has they're Shine, a move so great it effectiveness in combat is seen quite often. Pichu does not have a Shine, or he does (i believe its Agility) but its effectiveness in combat is so lacking that it might as well be ignored.

 

[soju]

Anyone who thinks the side-b is crappy should side-b right after a bthrow off the stage on a falco and see what happens. And why doesn't anyone edgeguard with a dair? It out-prioritizes almost all recoveries, pichu can still recover from it, and no matter what % they are at it still puts you in a better position. And finally, you play a bad character, don't even think that pichu is even close to being good. Because of this you need to utilize any gimmick, move, or tactic that seems like would work at the time, and especially work on reading your opponents. Oh and you guys should stop arguing all the time, it makes a board that everyone thinks is a joke look like a joke.

-Peace

 

[DerfMidWest]

what I meant by "pika has a crappy side b" is that it doesn't go far or help his recovery very much, imo.
Pichu's SideB goes much further and helps a lot more than pika's. It helps to make up for the fact that his upB can't travel as far.

SideB can do some stuff as well... Its an amazing Puff punisher, should puff miss a rest (kills at 13% or so on FD, which is faster than Pika's will, iirc). You can also ledgecancel sideB...


anyways, agility, while it has uses, is certainly not pichu's "shine," if anything, his shine would be his Nair or maybe even Dtilt. Nair is Pichu's best move. Its an effective and reliable approach (agility is not), it combos and gimps, and it is pretty safe on shield (late nair).

You shouldn't be using Agility too often. Its a gimmick. Its nice when you get it, but a decent player can pick up on it and just react to it. Its not particularly fast nor is it very safe. Its more of a risk reward kind of thing, but you don't want to be throwing that out too often. Only when it will be a good option and probably won't be punished. Its never a safe approach.

His usmash sucks when you hit stuff behind you. - should have used d-smash instead

you can't dsmash OoS.


also, arguing is fun. It makes me think about the character more, which helps me learn more about him.

 

[Spyro]

what I meant by "pika has a crappy side b" is that it doesn't go far or help his recovery very much, imo.
Pichu's SideB goes much further and helps a lot more than pika's. It helps to make up for the fact that his upB can't travel as far.

Their side b seems about the same to me, as far as recovery goes, and besides Pikachu's recovery is really good and he almost always can make it back to the stage (I'm not saying that he can't get punished after he makes it back to the stage, I'm just making the point that he can pretty much always make it back to the stage).

 

[Prince_Abu]

aesir god really doesnt understand smash

 

[DerfMidWest]

I didn't say that Pika had a bad recovery...
Pika's recovery is better than Pichu's.
However, Pika's sideB is worse and doesn't help his recovery as much.

Pichu's sideB goes like twice as far.
Pichu's UpB is also shorter, so the sideB helps him get back to the stage more when he gets hit way off.

 

[Cubelarooso]

Hey, now. Discussion is great, but let's not resort to insults.

And no, if uncharged, which is how Side-B is used during recovery, I think they go about the same.

 

[Spyro]

His usmash sucks when you hit stuff behind you. - should have used d-smash instead

you can't dsmash OoS.

Forgot to mention, uair oos works if your in a sheild, and you should not throw out dsmashes everytime your oppentes behind you, dmash can easily be SDIed at mid - high %, so you should not use it predictably.

 

[KingClubber]

nyways, agility, while it has uses, is certainly not pichu's "shine," if anything, his shine would be his Nair or maybe even Dtilt. Nair is Pichu's best move. Its an effective and reliable approach (agility is not), it combos and gimps, and it is pretty safe on shield (late nair).

theoretically - Each character has they're Shine, a move so great it effectiveness in combat is seen quite often. Pichu does not have a Shine, or he does (i believe its Agility for pichu, and Aesir believes its N-air or maybe even Dtilt) but its effectiveness in combat is so lacking that it might as well be ignored.

Fixed*

Aesir stop stating your opinion as fact, i'm starting to think Prince_Abu might be right about you.

 

[Prince_Abu]

I like learning, but nobody talks to me .-.
except abu, but he annoys me.

lmao u dont like learning u like losing

 

[DerfMidWest]

Nair is Pichu's best move... this is a fact <_<

 

[KingClubber]

Nair is Pichu's best move... this is a fact <_<

No that's your opinion, not fact. N-air is just his best approach option, it's not even his best attack.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

this thread title is an oxymoron.

 

[Spyro]

this thread title is an oxymoron.

Where is the "like post" button?

 

[Divinokage]

no... If you understand the character and your opponents character and you are the better player, you can win. Its more about being comfortable with the character.

and Pichu's only truly unwinable matchup is against ICs. He has some crap he can do to punish marth/sheik.

Even if you know all the match-ups, you still have weaknesses that don't change.. it's nearly impossible to hide Pichu's weakness because in all corners of the world you can see them easily.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Where is the "like post" button?

in your signature.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Even if you know all the match-ups, you still have weaknesses that don't change.. it's nearly impossible to hide Pichu's weakness because in all corners of the world you can see them easily.

this is true. Which is why you need to be a better player to win with Pichu.
You need to be able to prevent your opponent from exploiting your weaknesses as much as possible, which is not easy to do. However, if the Pichu is a better player, the pichu can win.

And Clubber, Nair is Pichu's best move. I state my opinion as though it is fact because this is a fact.
Not only is is a good approach, it is also a great gimping/edgeguarding tool.
Pichu doesn't have a fancy uair like Pika does, but in many situations, he can replace that with nair.
Nair is also Pichu's best OoS option (second best being usmash or uair, imo)
Nair is good because it has next to no lag, decent priority, it comes out on like frame 6, and it has decent stun. It is overall Pichu's safest move and has more applications than any other move he has.

 

[Prince_Abu]

However, if the Pichu is a better player, the pichu can win.

u keep saying this but can u provide even one example of a pichu beating anyone even remotely good
idk where ur getting ur facts but no matter how skilled u are if ur character has no options ur screwed

 

[Divinokage]

this is true. Which is why you need to be a better player to win with Pichu.
You need to be able to prevent your opponent from exploiting your weaknesses as much as possible, which is not easy to do. However, if the Pichu is a better player, the pichu can win.

I don't think you understand the implication of being the better player while still being in the limits of the game and your character. You can't prevent your opponent from exploiting your weaknesses like I said, it's written all over the character whether it's getting hit by one move or one grab, you will get severely damaged and you will die really early as well.. it's super easy to techchase a Pichu, he can't escape most options due to his horrible tech roll even if you tech in place, it's predictable since you don't need to cover that much ground to read all his rolls. If you try to camp, by all means damage yourself all you like.. he has way too limited options to approach.

Anyways, no matter how hard you try to paint the character having decent options, it won't change the fact his weaknesses outweigh his strengths completely. Do you see Pichu's in brackets? Nope... Do you see low tiers in brackets even? Hardly. He's a fun character at best.

Now as for my character, I can probably still improve some things in my game but the difficulty of being on point at all times is ridiculous because I'm trying to always control the center vs let's say Fox who has much better speed and punishment game than me. If I make any mistake and find myself in a bad position, I will most likely die because my recovery is crappy.. THERE IS NO CHANGING THAT FACT however I have chosen this road.

 

[DerfMidWest]

I didn't say Pichu was a good character...
He is not.
I do believe that one can be a good player.

If you are smarter than your opponent you will win. there is more to the game than the character.
You have to try your hardest to keep yourself out of those undesirable positions that get you killed.

All in all, you can think what you want about pichu, I'm not going to try to sell the character to you, it doesn't change the fact that I choose to use him. You can't simply tell me to replace him with Pika or some **** like that. I have my reasons for playing Pichu instead of Pika.
I've done my best to explain them, if you don't agree with it, then it doesn't matter. You don't need to approve of the character I use.
If I don't win with Pichu, then its my own fault.
I like my character, and I will use him.
**** you if you think you will change that.

 

[DerfMidWest]

u keep saying this but can u provide even one example of a pichu beating anyone even remotely good

also not true.
Look at Unknown's Pichu or Nicknyte's Pichu. They do well against decent players, better than yourself.

Both of them just use Pichu for fun, but it doesn't change the fact that they are winning with Pichu. Its not because of the character, its because they, as players, are superior to their opponents.

 

[Prince_Abu]

also not true.
Look at Unknown's Pichu or Nicknyte's Pichu. They do well against decent players, better than yourself.

Both of them just use Pichu for fun, but it doesn't change the fact that they are winning with Pichu. Its not because of the character, its because they, as players, are superior to their opponents.

they wud def not beat me with pichu dude
but ya u seem pretty set on maining a character with no options so whatever
have fun getting 4 stocked by every1

 

[Divinokage]

I didn't say Pichu was a good character...
He is not.
I do believe that one can be a good player.

If you are smarter than your opponent you will win. there is more to the game than the character.
You have to try your hardest to keep yourself out of those undesirable positions that get you killed.

All in all, you can think what you want about pichu, I'm not going to try to sell the character to you, it doesn't change the fact that I choose to use him. You can't simply tell me to replace him with Pika or some **** like that. I have my reasons for playing Pichu instead of Pika.
I've done my best to explain them, if you don't agree with it, then it doesn't matter. You don't need to approve of the character I use.
If I don't win with Pichu, then its my own fault.
I like my character, and I will use him.
**** you if you think you will change that.

You can say whatever you want but it won't change the fact that you cannot be 100% smarter than your opponent, it's never clear cut like that. Have you ever heard of adaptation? If you can choose to make a smart move and counter-attack but if you make that move again then you might get called on it. There's ways to make you so that you have no choice but to be in those undesirable positions... you know forcing options out of you. You can't escape that no matter how you try to theory-craft what you think you know.. You pretty much can't be allowed to get hit once.. I'd much rather see someone actually doing it rather than talk nonsense and try to believe in something absurd. Of course, there is more to it than the character, but you are still fighting supremely bad match-ups and you are playing inside the limits of the game. It's not some supernatural world where anything is possible. lol.

Of course, it's your fault for losing with Pichu, you've chosen the hardest road possible to begin with and it will continue to be your fault. Most opponents will be capable of steamrolling through a joke of a character. So ya, you can love what you are doing.. I have no problems with that, I respect that actually but... Are you sure you want to continue suffering the consequences that comes with it?

Fyi, I beat nicknyte's pichu 5-0, no problem in the challenge.. still doesn't change that even if they are very good with Pichu, it's impossible for anyone to make brackets with him.

 

[KingClubber]

Kage...here....in the pichu boards....(faints)......

 

[DerfMidWest]

Haha, Pichu ganon is pree tough, I like the matchup though, tis fun.
Ganon goes offstage and dies.
But if Pichu gets smacked he dies too.

Anyway, I main Pichu, but I don't use him in every matchup...
Fox is my secondary, in certain matchups, I'm more comfortable with Pichu, so I use Pichu. In others I feel more comfortable with Fox, so I go Fox.
My Pichu is just better at certain things.

 

[Bing]

Pichu doesn't have a fancy uair like Pika does, but in many situations, he can replace that with nair.

Did you seriously just say Pichu doesnt have a good uair? :S you can juggle the **** out of people with uair.
Pichu's nair is good, and it probably is the best approaching move is his moveset. But I'd say uair beats it. It combos, acts as a combo breaker. And It also comes out pretty fast.

 

[Cubelarooso]

He didn't say it wasn't good, just not as fancy as Pika's. I dare you to try to find an Uair that is.

 

[Divinokage]

Zelda's uair

 

[ShroudedOne]

I saw the thread title, and had to chuckle. "Pichu Competitive." Tee hee hee. I respect the choice, though. Hi Max.

And yes, Zelda's uair is probably the most fancy.

 

[DerfMidWest]

hi that jaiye :D

anyways, yea, I think Pichu's uair is pree good, I use it a lot, but it doesn't semispike, which prevents a lot of easy gimps and such.
Nair works well in a lot of those situations though.

Uair is a decent combo breaker, but so is nair...

 

[Bing]

Yeah Zelda's uair is pretty damn fancy.


And my bad, misinterpreted what you said. But I guess its to who his own.