Phantom Hits + DI = ?

[Bl@ckChris]

I was thinking in the shower about phantom hits, and i remembered that i read somewhere (probably in a magus post) that if you were to ASDI phantom hits toward the hitbox, you would end up in the hitbox, therefore getting hit by the real hitbox, and proceed to have knockback. Now to my knowledge, phantom hits occur when hitboxes and hurtboxes are tangent and only touch at one point and things of the sort, so i guess being forced into the hitbox doesn't break the concept of "one hitbox, one hit/trajectory".

But here comes the question. Would it be possible to DI a normal hit INTO becoming a phantom hit. Could you take being inside of a hitbox, ASDI'ing it to being outside/tangent to that hitbox, and subsequently experience no knockback? it seems pretty risky to look a hit in the face and say "i'm going to DI this outwards, because i want it to become nothing", but if you see some fully spaced move that you know would kill you (marth tippers anyone?), being able to force a phantom would be rather convenient.

it probably doesn't work, just like my last thread/idea, but i do love thinking critically about this games physics, and trying to work with them, around them, and against them.

 

[Dark Hart]

If you get hit, you can't DI the attack in a way to make it a phantom hit being that YOU ALREADY GOT HIT!!!

 

[Nø Ca$h]

my spacing is so good i can generate phantoms on command.

 

[X1-12]

If you get hit, you can't DI the attack in a way to make it a phantom hit being that YOU ALREADY GOT HIT!!!

I thnk he means that you take the main hit ASDI into the phantom area and then get hit again by the phantom, which has almmost null knockback meaning that you would travel basically knowhere, as your movement is based on the knockback of the most recent attack

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJj_5EZyi34, each time the falco gets hit, the knockback from the previous attack is negated)


but in honesty I'm not actually convinced if you DI a phantom inwards the real hitbox hits you, unless its a multi-hit move...


PS the post i think is actually Doraki's guide to DI

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

No if you DI into the hitbox (so that the hitbox is colliding with your hurtbox after hitlag) then you will be hit again. Its the only time you can be "hit" by the same hitbox twice.

 

[X1-12]

No if you DI into the hitbox (so that the hitbox is colliding with your hurtbox after hitlag) then you will be hit again. Its the only time you can be "hit" by the same hitbox twice.

do you have a vid of this? I'd like to see it actually happen

 

[Kanelol]

do you have a vid of this? I'd like to see it actually happen

Yoshi's Story is haunted by invisible Shy Guys

I've never actually seen it, but I heard a story about a Falcon on YS that tried to knee someone, got some invisible thing, and also hit the dude he was trying to knee.

It was later concluded that he got a phantom sweetspot and the dude he was fighting DI'd into it.

I might try to find the video later, dunno if it's even on YouTube. I'm sure Magus has something along those lines bookmarked and in .gif form.

 

[Lovage]

LOL yeah i've experienced invisible shy guys. might only be on some versions of the game cuz it seems super rare

 

[DtJ Jungle]

No if you DI into the hitbox (so that the hitbox is colliding with your hurtbox after hitlag) then you will be hit again. Its the only time you can be "hit" by the same hitbox twice.

ive had this happen once or twice, and this explains it

 

[LittleOne]

but in honesty I'm not actually convinced if you DI a phantom inwards the real hitbox hits you, unless its a multi-hit move...

actually it is possible, it happened to me recently with Marth's bair.

no vids to prove it, sorry, but I'm positive it happened.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

so it seems like we've concuded that you can indeed DI into phantoms to make them true hits. Anynody other than dark hart with any ideas or definitive answers on if the reverse is true?

 

[Paix]

someone get Magus in here

 

[shehehe11]

^lol

pretty creative idea though

 

[Vro]

I've experienced this a few times while fighting spacies' bair. I would get phantom hit by the light part of it as they were rising and then get hit by the fat part (i asdi'd up with it).

I don't think you could ever get hit by a move and then get phantom'd by the same move, tho.

 

[X1-12]

so it seems like we've concuded that you can indeed DI into phantoms to make them true hits. Anynody other than dark hart with any ideas or definitive answers on if the reverse is true?

you most probably can't when the hitbox's overlap it registers as 'ht' however when you phantom is doesn't, meaning that you could get hit again by the real hitbox, however if you get hit by the real hitbox first it would allready have registered as getting hit, and most likely the phantom wouldn't register.

 

[1048576]

Knockback doesn't suddenly turn into no knockback. Haven't any of you ever phantomed a moving target? They keep moving in whatever direction the original hit sent them.

 

[Magus420]

When a phantom hit happens the attacker does not go into hitlag, but the person being hit does. You can't ever ASDI phantom hits. You can't SDI them either unless it happens while you're already in a damage/knockback/tumble animation, since you can't SDI in hitlag while in the others (you freeze and stay in the same action you were in when phantomed). If the game did allow you to do that then it would also let you SDI during hitlag when you are the one attacking and not just the person being hit.

Unlike normal hits, the damage is applied after hitlag ends. It also doesn't count as hitting them which is why it can initially connect as a phantom and then still hit them again later. If it makes solid contact during the phantom's hitlag it switches to a normal hit and the damage from the phantom never happens. If it makes solid contact after hitlag it'll do the phantom's damage as well as the normal hit afterwards. It'll use the current properties of the hitbox though, so if it has since changed into a flub/weak part of the move it will normal hit with that.


________________A_________________________________B

________________C_________________________________D


A: Phantom hit
B: Phantom hit, then connects before hitlag ends ('single' hit)
C: Phantom hit, then connects as early as possible after hitlag ends ('double' hit)
D: Phantom hit, then connects as late as possible after hitlag ends ('double' hit)

 

[Bl@ckChris]

so to answer the OP, it would appear that normal hits can't become phantom hits due to the one hitbox, one hit rule, right?

cause if you were to be hit for real and you tried to DI into a phantom, it wouldn't register because you were in hitlag, right?

I hate to ask more, cause you covered everything regarding what happens during and what an possibly happen after a phantom hit, but I just wanted to know if a phantom could occur using the same hitbox that a solid hit has been made with, using DI of any so
edit: actually 1048576 that makes a lot of sense. I feel a little foolish for asking. The forced phantom just seemed like a really cool possibility. Guess I'll think about game physics some more and come up with another fail concept/technique in a week or so.