Patch v1.08 Samus Changes

[Squaddle]

As of 1.08 replays are broken again, so there have likely been some balancing changes that have occurred... I'll be testing things out in training mode for a few hours. Post anything you've noticed here (but be wary of placebo effects!) I'll wait for at least several people to confirm noticing a change before putting it in the 'confirmed' section.

Confirmed changes:
UP SMASH IS GOOD NOW. Has both improved hitboxes (gets more hits frequently) and better KO power (kills about 20% earlier)
-Missile cancelling on ledges has been removed
-You no longer slide off the edge when using CS. Some kind of ledge momentum fix, it seems.

Unconfirmed changes:
-dair has a larger sweetspot for spiking, its easier to send a person at a downward angle instead of off to the left or right

Probably placebo
-F-smash is a tad longer?
-Tether // Grab longer?

 

[Afro Smash]

Damn they really did remove missile ledge cancel, RIP sexy ledge trump

 

[Tumultus]

Don't **** with me with placebo effect, guys. Real, tested, confirmed changes only!

 

[Afro Smash]

Up Smash got a huge knockback Buff! Killed Falcon at 115% Rosalina at 90%

 

[Squaddle]

Up Smash got a huge knockback Buff! Killed Falcon at 115% Rosalina at 90%

Yep, I can confirm this!

 

[Jackal Eire]

Only played online but got 2 kos quite early with up-smash...total lifetime up-smash kos now stands at 3...
Probably-stupid-untested-placebo observation, is our grab/tether longer?

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

Did MLC seriously get patched? Can someone test CS cancelled shield drop?

 

[Boney]

Up smash knockback is definately better. Not sure about it being better at catching airborne opponents. Seems the hit box is the same.

Didn't Charge Shot do 26%? It was doing 25% in training for me. Not gonna go through Skull Barrier now :/

 

[Afro Smash]

Lemme clarify some stuff from the OP:

Missile Ledge cancel is definitely gone
Being knocked over the edge by CS recoil is also gone (in training mode at the very least)
Up Smash definitely has increased knockback, kills 20-30% earlier
Up Tilt always did 13% vs grounded 12% vs airborne

Everything else in unconfirmed yet, but personally Grab/Tether/F Smash range all feel the same

 

[KayJay]

Up Smash is stronger,
I tested it with 3DS prepatch against Wii U postpatch.

R.O.B. dies from U-Smash on Final Destination at 135%
After the Patch he dies at 110%.

The missing missile cancel on ledge is a universal change:
Every move that makes you slide offstage doesn't move you offstage anymore (Yoshi's Jump Canceled Up B, Captain Falcon's running grab and so on)

Edit: I forgot that the blastzones on the 3DS are different, someone has to test U-Smash on a nonpatched Wii U
Edit 2: It's definately buffed, tested on a pre-patch Wii U.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I can't confirm up-smash connects better. Stronger yes, but ness and co still drop through and fail to connect.

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

So basically they didn't really fix what was wrong with u-smash in the first place?

 

[KayJay]

I confirm U-Smash connects different.
Prepatch against a standing 0% Ness: Always, and I really mean ALWAYS 3 Multihits with a total of 9% dmg
Now it's 4 Multihits with a total of 12% dmg.
It still whiffs, but not that bad now.

 

[Jonny Westside]

So basically they didn't really fix what was wrong with u-smash in the first place?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[KenMeister]

Just want to make sure this isn't placebo, but is dtilt a bit faster than usual, at least in terms of cooldown?

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

Does up b kill earlier now?

 

[DungeonMaster]

D-tilt is the same in terms of cooldown, I can't combo out of it after several tries
Up-B does not kill earlier.

I'm still looking for hitbox/hurtobox changes, but I don't see any obvious ones. I trust KayJay, there is probably another hitbox in up-smash but it's intentionally poorly positioned making this move continue to be garbage in the role of an actual kill move and retains its status as merely "damage in combos".

Grab seems identical, homing missiles likewise, and still garbage.

All the basic and advanced combos seem to work within previous ranges, I see no obvious change to any timings.
You can still tech a grounded meteor.

So the loss of missile cancelling and being able to fall off the edge with CS just hurt our options. Looks like rosa and company at the high end got no significant nerfs. I am upset.

 

[Afro Smash]

Not the best solution but if you carry them 3/4 hits along and they pop out you can catch them with Up B as a fairly tight string, or if they airdodge, another up smash

 

[DungeonMaster]

Nope, they can still just kick us in the face, as usual.

 

[RoachCake]

Just got done testing all the KO and damage %s, and like you guys already discovered, U-smash kills a little bit sooner. (152% > 133% and Fully Charged 114% > 99% both %s on Mario at center stage on the 3DS version)

I'm going to have to agree with the larger D-air sweet spot mentioned in the OP, but of course, it could just be placebo.
Other than that though, nothing seems different to me.

Edit: Also the bigger hitboxes on U-smash are definitely placebo.

 

[Reydiance]

Ahh, absolutely love the buffed u-smash! Now properly scoops grounded Mario and KOs at around 110%, and that's only a few % later than Fox's u-smash. Rejoice Samus community!

Also rip

 

[Zaprong]

Is she faster in the air? I believe that she got faster but im not sure...

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

Ahh, absolutely love the buffed u-smash! Now properly scoops grounded Mario and KOs at around 110%, and that's only a few % later than Fox's u-smash. Rejoice Samus community!

Also rip

I dunno, seems like people still fall out of it at a much higher rate than they should. I'm gonna keep that vid forever though.

 

[MOI-ARI]

That Up Smash buff is great!

That is TWO of my characters getting Usmash Buffed greatly. Zeldy and Sammy ^_^ \
Awesome to the max.

-----
Also i confirm that you no longer fall off the edge when blasting Full CS there. I tried it on omegas and BF platforms.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I dunno, seems like people still fall out of it at a much higher rate than they should. I'm gonna keep that vid forever though.

its still not perfect but its better that what that video provided.

 

[jahkzheng]

That Up Smash buff is great!

That is TWO of my characters getting Usmash Buffed greatly. Zeldy and Sammy ^_^ \
Awesome to the max.

-----
Also i confirm that you no longer fall off the edge when blasting Full CS there. I tried it on omegas and BF platforms.

Same here. And of the characters that I use, those two are the ones I really want to get some love. Could've been more obviously, but some improvement is better than none at all.

Samus in particular needs her smashes buffed a bit. At least Zelda's fsmash is long lasting and pushes and eats shield, and dsmash was a fast roll punish with nice horizontal KB growth. Samus dsmash is slow and not as safe a roll punish and fsmash just has some weird hitboxes and a narrow sweetspot.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Same here. And of the characters that I use, those two are the ones I really want to get some love. Could've been more obviously, but some improvement is better than none at all.

Samus in particular needs her smashes buffed a bit. At least Zelda's fsmash is long lasting and pushes and eats shield, and dsmash was a fast roll punish with nice horizontal KB growth. Samus dsmash is slow and not as safe a roll punish and fsmash just has some weird hitboxes and a narrow sweetspot.

d smash i would agree with but samus's f smash is already one of her best moves. frame 10 is nice. but im pretty good at landing sweetspot punishes.
but i dont think d smash will ever get buffed it seems so intentional.

 

[Squaddle]

Has the staleness mechanic been altered in some way? For the first time in a match ever I've had morphbomb do 7 damage. I wasn't just spamming the move, either, was just using it normally as I always would...

 

[jahkzheng]

d smash i would agree with but samus's f smash is already one of her best moves. frame 10 is nice. but im pretty good at landing sweetspot punishes.
but i dont think d smash will ever get buffed it seems so intentional.

It's a nice kill move when you get the spacing down. I'm not complaining about that property. The hitbox does seem strange though. The fire part can be right in the opponent's face and do nothing. Just graphically, you'd think the sweetspot would be bigger. It's kind of slow for a move that requires tight spacing too. It's kind of like Marth's fsmash actually, but less disjointed. It's not as safe as I'd like honestly and requires some tight spacing precision, which can be hard to set up on a character with a bad roll and floaty jumps. It's not something I've been able to consistently sweetspot when I try to punish a roll I've read either. So many times I've read a roll and exploded the canon right in the opponent face and they don't even flinch. Just feels risky more often than not so I don't use it much. It's like Zelda's lightning kick in that way. You have to really really know you're going to land it or at least will be safe. My most success comes from pivot fsmash reading approaches or setting up with bomb. Also, against slow or predictable characters in general.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

It's a nice kill move when you get the spacing down. I'm not complaining about that property. The hitbox does seem strange though. The fire part can be right in the opponent's face and do nothing. Just graphically, you'd think the sweetspot would be bigger. It's kind of slow for a move that requires tight spacing too. It's kind of like Marth's fsmash actually, but less disjointed. It's not as safe as I'd like honestly and requires some tight spacing precision, which can be hard to set up on a character with a bad roll and floaty jumps. It's not something I've been able to consistently sweetspot when I try to punish a roll I've read either. So many times I've read a roll and exploded the canon right in the opponent face and they don't even flinch. Just feels risky more often than not so I don't use it much. It's like Zelda's lightning kick in that way. You have to really really know you're going to land it or at least will be safe. My most success comes from pivot fsmash reading approaches or setting up with bomb. Also, against slow or predictable characters in general.

i use jab 1 too stuff air approach (yes i use her jab, A LOT) and it always lets me connect a sweetspot f smash.

 

[Afro Smash]

Did MLC seriously get patched? Can someone test CS cancelled shield drop?

CS cancelled shield drop is still in :]

 

[jahkzheng]

i use jab 1 too stuff air approach (yes i use her jab, A LOT) and it always lets me connect a sweetspot f smash.

I don't do that often enough, admittedly.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I don't do that often enough, admittedly.

jabs surprisingly has its uses. after 30 percent jab 1 is completely safe and earns you the space you so much desire.
iv talked alot about jab 1 on other boards (well talked about samus in general) but admitedly most people rather just not use it.

its still frame 3 T.T

 

[DungeonMaster]

Lifetime up-smash kills counter: 1.
Pre-patch, accidentally hit c. falcon, wanted an up-tilt.

Did some extensive testing last night. Comparing to the old data that allowed me to set the numbers for the combo thread it looks like the "new and improved" up-smash has added about 2-3% to the lower end of it connecting out of up-tilt and maybe 1% at higher end. Grand total impact, really: ZERO.
I also tested Afro Smash's rising SH-dair list to see if we got any hitbox extension on d-air, answer is: Nope. D-air still has plenty of angles where the arc of the arm goes through the target model without connecting.

So the intent really is just to make life hard for Samus players. That's my opinion after this latest patch. I was unsure before, now, I'm convinced.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Lifetime up-smash kills counter: 1.
Pre-patch, accidentally hit c. falcon, wanted an up-tilt.

Did some extensive testing last night. Comparing to the old data that allowed me to set the numbers for the combo thread it looks like the "new and improved" up-smash has added about 2-3% to the lower end of it connecting out of up-tilt and maybe 1% at higher end. Grand total impact, really: ZERO.
I also tested Afro Smash's rising SH-dair list to see if we got any hitbox extension on d-air, answer is: Nope. D-air still has plenty of angles where the arc of the arm goes through the target model without connecting.

So the intent really is just to make life hard for Samus players. That's my opinion after this latest patch. I was unsure before, now, I'm convinced.

im still fancy in love with her dair though xd

 

[Squaddle]

Lifetime up-smash kills counter: 1.
Pre-patch, accidentally hit c. falcon, wanted an up-tilt.

Did some extensive testing last night. Comparing to the old data that allowed me to set the numbers for the combo thread it looks like the "new and improved" up-smash has added about 2-3% to the lower end of it connecting out of up-tilt and maybe 1% at higher end. Grand total impact, really: ZERO.
I also tested Afro Smash's rising SH-dair list to see if we got any hitbox extension on d-air, answer is: Nope. D-air still has plenty of angles where the arc of the arm goes through the target model without connecting.

So the intent really is just to make life hard for Samus players. That's my opinion after this latest patch. I was unsure before, now, I'm convinced.

With the latest patch I've gotten far more kills with upsmash now than I've ever thought possible, the tweaked hitboxes have definitely made the move much less niche and it's become a pretty solid finisher in my eyes. Sure, it still glitches now and then, but its not more so than her other multi-hit moves. It's a pretty big change, man.

Though yeah, unfortunately dair is pretty much the same in terms of hitbox size... but can someone verify if the spike angle has been improved at all?

 

[DungeonMaster]

@ Squaddle I'm revising my initial opinion. The first 2 hitboxes are garbage, and should only be used on specific targets/situations, but the rest do in fact connect correctly now. When the target is directly above you, everything connects (even vs a pk kid and villager). If they are above and in front, know your target. Despite the increased kill power it's still barely in line with up-tilt and up-tilt is definitely better if you have stage control. I'm probably only going to use up-smash centre stage or if I have my back to the wall.
I don't know why we can't just have a normal animation, with a normal multi-hit and the design decision is that we shouldn't. When you compare with moves like Rob, Shulk with their massive disjointed hitboxes and the giant list of invincible up-smashes (mario, G&W, bowser, etc...) the idea that this was looked at in the former and current iterations are deemed "acceptable" is insulting. This is the last SORA game I will ever buy, that is for sure.

@ Road Death Wheel Agreed, I'm trying to figure out if our hurtbox got any smaller. I don't think so.

 

[ZXTPrime]

Any other buffs? The first thing i noticed was that morphball jumping seems quicker but that could also be placebo on my end i need independent confirmation.

 

[Fluidityt]

I

@ Squaddle I'm revising my initial opinion. The first 2 hitboxes are garbage, and should only be used on specific targets/situations, but the rest do in fact connect correctly now. When the target is directly above you, everything connects (even vs a pk kid and villager). If they are above and in front, know your target. Despite the increased kill power it's still barely in line with up-tilt and up-tilt is definitely better if you have stage control. I'm probably only going to use up-smash centre stage or if I have my back to the wall.
I don't know why we can't just have a normal animation, with a normal multi-hit and the design decision is that we shouldn't. When you compare with moves like Rob, Shulk with their massive disjointed hitboxes and the giant list of invincible up-smashes (mario, G&W, bowser, etc...) the idea that this was looked at in the former and current iterations are deemed "acceptable" is insulting. This is the last SORA game I will ever buy, that is for sure.

@ Road Death Wheel Agreed, I'm trying to figure out if our hurtbox got any smaller. I don't think so.

I can confirm this, as I experienced same thing vs locals with a Ness / Kirby. Front and up angle you are likely to whiff vs smallies, but medium to larges works much better. Directly above seems to work most of the time.

I've won several games from Usmash now, but seem to be reserving it for kill moves only and not damage, so as to not stale. This is good because I can feel good about using Screw attack for damage now.

Also, Jab 1 at medium to higher percents is now what the old FTILT used to be; a good spacer. I use FTILT now mostly for KO at high percent or to get enough space to charge up shot.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I



I can confirm this, as I experienced same thing vs locals with a Ness / Kirby. Front and up angle you are likely to whiff vs smallies, but medium to larges works much better. Directly above seems to work most of the time.

I've won several games from Usmash now, but seem to be reserving it for kill moves only and not damage, so as to not stale. This is good because I can feel good about using Screw attack for damage now.

Also, Jab 1 at medium to higher percents is now what the old FTILT used to be; a good spacer. I use FTILT now mostly for KO at high percent or to get enough space to charge up shot.

jab 1 has been like that forever mate.