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Official Patch 3.1.0 Discussion Thread

shrooby

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And then suddenly patch! Time for routine work as per usual.

https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/45405

We will hand out large infractions and/or temporary bans to those who stifle this process of patch exploration
Some examples include
1. Posting false changes, good intentions or not.
2. Asking if anything has changed when the patch notes are there for you to read.
3. Immature behavior and complaining over the patch changes.

When checking changes, remember that Ultimate has many different damage multipliers.
  • Percent values taken from proper matches (non-training mode) have scaling adjustments based on it's current freshness; a 1% difference seen in a match may not be a real patch change and should be double checked before being posted.
  • For aerials remember that aerials performed during a short hop have a x0.85 damage multiplier.
  • Moves deal more damage (x1.2) in 1v1s matches than in matches with more than two players. This multiplier also applies to Training Mode.
~~~~~~~~~

What Nintendo's official patch notes terms mean:
Zapp Branniglenn said:
Quick notes about Nintendo's official patch notes based on trends noticed last time.

  • "Launch distance" refers to knockback.
    • "Undamaged launch distance" refers very specifically to base knockback
  • "Reduced Vulnerability" refers to reduced endlag.
    • Reduced Vulnerability when Landing" refers to reduced landing lag
  • "Shortened landing time" is referring to a reduction in how much of the animation forces that move's landing state. In other words, it's a more lenient autocancel window
  • "Hitstun time" refers to hitlag.
    • "Hitstun Shuffle Distance" refers to a move's SDI multiplier.
 
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Untouch

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Increased the amount of time hit detection lasts = Increased the time the hitbox is active I assume.
 

Ziodyne 21

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Ouch Pichu looks like he got hit the worst.. With Olimar and Peach/Dasiy not far behind.

Falcon and Diddy are looking like the winners of this patch. Fataility must be crying tears of joy right now
 
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Wunderwaft

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Game and Watch's up-tilt got a buff. What a coincidence considering we were talking about how terrible it was in the competitive character impression thread a few hours ago.

EDIT: OUCH. Pichu got nerfed hard. Could this affect his tier placement?
 
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Untouch

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WFT's singular buff is confusing, jab1 has nearly no knockback growth, it always connected to jab2.
 

Repli.Cant

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I am thoroughly pleased. Jr. buffs.... Kart is so fast, utilt connects into itself more, usmash is strong again, the kart's hits of up b connect reliably now, the hammer swing is just better overall.

I feel like a kid on Christmas morning. Time to go play. :evil:
 

ShadowTheHedgehogZ

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Ouch Pichu looks like he got hit the worst.. With Olimar and Peach/Dasiy not far behind.

Falcon and Diddy are looking like the winners of this patch. Fataility must be crying tears of joy right now
Falcon got buffed? Please tell me this is true and it will be the happiest day of my life
 

FruitLoop

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Pichu's f-tilt not being as spammable with his f-smash being less spammable as well alongside his moves ACTUALLY hurting him for once and his Neutral-B actually hurting him more means that Pichu has to actually COMMIT to his moves more or else he'll be at kill % much quicker. Pichu's supposed design flaw now works and tbh that should honestly be enough to maybe knob pichu down a tier depending on the severity. He's definitely worse than Pikachu now as if we had doubts before.

Peach's nerfs severity are kind of questionable depending on how much worse turnips and fair are. She still probably is as solid as she was already as she still has the same ridiculous down-tilt confirms and damage output off of float cancels whomst have 1.0x damage multipliers instead of 0.85x, but we can wait and see.

Olimar's and Wolf's nerfs seem big but we don't know how much worse they are. A lot of these changes sound pretty big given that these are these top tier's best tools. Also Lucina F-Smash nerf seems pretty big as well. They really tryna nerf all the best chars. I think most of these "nerfs" sound pretty reasonable imo.

None of the buffs are too hugely significant. Characters like Falcon and Diddy seem to have a lot of buffs but they don't seem to be super huge outside of Diddy's Up-B having actual distance on it so maybe Diddy could actually you know... recover. Bayonetta's up-tilt working and having witch time not be heavily mediocre alongside her landing lag reductions to side-b and up-b could be useful as well and I guess Ken/Ryu seem to be given some nice buffs but I'm not sure if any of these characters got anything super big to really change up tier placements. It's really just reliant on the current values of most character changes.

Imo the meta will probably be the same except half of the top 10 characters might not be 100% top 5/10 material anymore (Pichu for example) depending on the nerf severities.

Not a bad balance patch and there weren't too many overly questionable choices. But it's funny that piranha plant only got a jab buff lol.
 

Cosmic77

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Rosa and Lucario got a few buffs. Not sure if they'll do anything in the long run, but it's better than nothing. I mourn for the Peach/Daisy, Olimar, and Pichu players.

On another note, it seems like we're back to Smash 4's randomly going back and forth between nerfing/buffing Luma's stamina and respawn time. Don't know why they can't seem to make up their mind on something that should be so simple.
 

GP2

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For Ken's Up B:

"Shortened the hitstun shuffle travel distance "

Anybody know what this means?
 

MrGameguycolor

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Lucina Side Smash Attack Shortened the launch distance.
Lucina Forward Air Attack Shortened the launch distance.



:ultlucina: nerfs and nothing for :ultmarth:.

What do you know...
I got what I predicted.
 

Shaya

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Lucina fair change could be a buff...

But yeah, they've decided to reverse 1 of the 3 ways Lucina was "overtuned" in S4 to compete with Marth: Forward Smash.
And the difference in power was one of my most contentious / sour feeling choices. I would've preferred Marth power up on sour spot fsmash, but this works in bringing the two closer.
 
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Wunderwaft

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"Nana will no longer jump when pressing the jump button right after a grab. "

I'm confused about this change, does this mean desyncing will be harder to pull off now?
 

Heart of Ice

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Pichu's f-tilt not being as spammable with his f-smash being less spammable as well alongside his moves ACTUALLY hurting him for once and his Neutral-B actually hurting him more means that Pichu has to actually COMMIT to his moves more or else he'll be at kill % much quicker. Pichu's supposed design flaw now works and tbh that should honestly be enough to maybe knob pichu down a tier depending on the severity. He's definitely worse than Pikachu now as if we had doubts before.

Peach's nerfs severity are kind of questionable depending on how much worse turnips and fair are. She still probably is as solid as she was already as she still has the same ridiculous down-tilt confirms and damage output off of float cancels whomst have 1.0x damage multipliers instead of 0.85x, but we can wait and see.

Olimar's and Wolf's nerfs seem big but we don't know how much worse they are. A lot of these changes sound pretty big given that these are these top tier's best tools. Also Lucina F-Smash nerf seems pretty big as well. They really tryna nerf all the best chars. I think most of these "nerfs" sound pretty reasonable imo.

None of the buffs are too hugely significant. Characters like Falcon and Diddy seem to have a lot of buffs but they don't seem to be super huge outside of Diddy's Up-B having actual distance on it so maybe Diddy could actually you know... recover. Bayonetta's up-tilt working and having witch time not be heavily mediocre alongside her landing lag reductions to side-b and up-b could be useful as well and I guess Ken/Ryu seem to be given some nice buffs but I'm not sure if any of these characters got anything super big to really change up tier placements. It's really just reliant on the current values of most character changes.

Imo the meta will probably be the same except half of the top 10 characters might not be 100% top 5/10 material anymore (Pichu for example) depending on the nerf severities.

Not a bad balance patch and there weren't too many overly questionable choices. But it's funny that piranha plant only got a jab buff lol.
Wolf's nerfs are negligible at most. I barely notice any increase in ending lag on his blaster and he picked up a number of buffs in this patch as well.
 

Arthur97

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Lucina Side Smash Attack Shortened the launch distance.
Lucina Forward Air Attack Shortened the launch distance.



:ultlucina: nerfs and nothing for :ultmarth:.

What do you know...
I got what I predicted.
Ah, so all blame should be directed at you. Got it.
 

MrGameguycolor

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Ah, so all blame should be directed at you. Got it.

Joking aside, less knockback on Fair could make it better at comboing...
So it's more of a trade off if anything.


Still...
Nerfs on Pichu, Peach/Daisy, Wolf, Olimar, Lucy and no buffs for Marth...


This was a pretty good patch IMO.
 
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FruitLoop

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Wolf's nerfs are negligible at most. I barely notice any increase in ending lag on his blaster and he picked up a number of buffs in this patch as well.
Probably, i don't really know the actual numbers. However an increased endlag to Blaster is probably enough to at least make it easier to maneuver around Wolf's hitboxes and maybe it'd be possible to get more frame advantage off of punishing Wolf's B-Reversing if he lands while rolling behind Wolf for counterplay. Also this makes Laser spam slightly less useful against the cast and it could make it harder to reflect back blasters if the opponent decides to camp around with reflectors. Having down-smash nerfed could also just make Wolf's 2 frames less deadly by a slight margin and Up-B having a smaller hitbox while recovering means that its easier to overall trade with Wolf's moves with decently disjointed hitboxes. Most of wolf's bigger buffs outside of maybe a better down-b for anti-camps are kind of not noteworthy at all.
 

Jaro235

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I’m just pleased that Yoshi and Palutena received no nerfs. They do not need nerfs at all. I’m disappointed that Sheik and Kirby got absolutely no buffs though...
 

DavaiZhe

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I’m just pleased that Yoshi and Palutena received no nerfs. They do not need nerfs at all. I’m disappointed that Sheik and Kirby got absolutely no buffs though...
I don't think anyone was up in arms for Yoshi nerfs, to be honest. I feel the same way about ZSS, glad she didn't get nerfed just because of Marss.

Can Lucatio Aura Sphere usmash again after the change?
 

Untouch

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After playing around here's probably what changed with WFT.
WFT's big jab hitbox knocks players TOWARDS WFT now. This allows for some jank jablock setups.
WFT's hand hitbox APPEARS to knock players towards the ground, this changes the jab1 header hitbox, it seems to be better now.
 

Jaro235

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I don't think anyone was up in arms for Yoshi nerfs, to be honest. I feel the same way about ZSS, glad she didn't get nerfed just because of Marss.

Can Lucatio Aura Sphere usmash again after the change?
Believe it or not, I have seen a few people who said that Yoshi should get nerfed, particularly his nair out of shield.
 

TM 023

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Okay so, Mii Brawler can autocancel fair from a short hop now and this wasn't listed on the patch notes.
Here's a small clip showcasing it :

And here's a video on old fair, you can see the landing lag from short hop fair:
 
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Big O

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Patch 3.1 fixes DK's Giant Punch Super Armor glitch. Previously, landing on frames 12-17 during a fully charged Giant Punch caused DK to never get Super Armor. Now, landing on frames 12-17 immediately grants DK Super Armor. Both the grounded Super Armor window (11-20) and airborne Super Armor window (17-20) are unchanged.
 

Sean²

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The Wolf changes feel kinda real this time :(

Blaster does feel noticeably slower. B reversing it seems to kick out the laser at a different angle.

I guess Wolf will be less scary to edgeguard with KB reduction on up B. It may also be a less potent ledge jump mixup option.

Get ready for Shine combos though, aerial shine to flash feels easier to perform on a lot of characters.

IDK how much of this is placebo, as I haven't had time to really lab it.
 
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Got4n

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Luma's HPs have been decreased from 60 HP to 48.
Rosalina's standing grab has been reduced by 1 frame (from frame 7 to frame 6).
Luma respawns 1 second faster than before (around)
 

Space thing

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Patch 3.1 fixes DK's Giant Punch Super Armor glitch. Previously, landing on frames 12-17 during a fully charged Giant Punch caused DK to never get Super Armor. Now, landing on frames 12-17 immediately grants DK Super Armor. Both the grounded Super Armor window (11-20) and airborne Super Armor window (17-20) are unchanged.
This is actually what it said in the Japanese notes. I have no idea where the English translators got the 'lasts longer' thing. But the translations have been whack in generally. I swear, they've sometimes technically said the opposite of what they mean on occasion.
 

MrGameguycolor

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https://twitter.com/KokoPiichu/status/1134268440523476994

Pichu Self Damage in 3.0.1 -> 3.1.0 (Not counting .05%)
-FTilt - 0.8 -> 1.2

-FSmash - 1.8 -> 2.4

-DSmash - 1.0 -> 1.5

-FAir - 1.2 -> 1.8

-BAir - 1.2 -> 1.8

-DAir - 1.2 -> 1.8

-FThrow - 0.6 -> 0.9

-TJolt - 0.5 -> 0.8

-Skull Bash - 1.8 -> 2.1

-Agility - 0.7 -> 1.0

-Thunder - 3.6 -> 4.2%



:ultdoc: can now Short Hop Back-Air Pichu now...

:ultdoc: - :ultpichu: is officially even now.
 
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Marlotix

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https://twitter.com/KokoPiichu/status/1134268440523476994

Pichu Self Damage in 3.0.1 -> 3.1.0 (Not counting .05%)
-FTilt - 0.8 -> 1.2

-FSmash - 1.8 -> 2.4

-DSmash - 1.0 -> 1.5

-FAir - 1.2 -> 1.8

-BAir - 1.2 -> 1.8

-DAir - 1.2 -> 1.8

-FThrow - 0.6 -> 0.9

-TJolt - 0.5 -> 0.8

-Skull Bash - 1.8 -> 2.1

-Agility - 0.7 -> 1.0

-Thunder - 3.6 -> 4.2%



:ultdoc: can now Short Hop Back-Air Pichu now...

:ultdoc: - :ultpichu: is officially even now.
Here's Pichu's self-damage differences including .05% stuff. I gathered this myself:

Forward Tilt: 0.84% > 1.2%
Forward Smash: 1.8% > 2.4% (Charge doesn't affect self-damage)
Down Smash: 0.95% > 1.56% (Charge doesn't affect self-damage)
Forward Air: 1.2% > 1.8%
Back Air: 1.2% > 1.8%
Down Air: 1.2% > 1.8%
Forward Throw: 0.6% > 0.96%
Neutral Special: 0.48% > 0.84%
Side Special: 1.8% > 2.16% (Charge doesn't affect self-damage)
Up Special: 0.72% (Once) 2.4% (Twice) > 1.08% (Once) 2.76% (Twice)
Down Special: 3.6% > 4.2%

The self-damage for pummel and both forms of his Final Smash (Smash Meter and Smash Ball) remain the same.
 

shrooby

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Thank you for your help and clarifications as always, everyone!

Luma respawns 1 second faster than before (around)
As in it's about one second faster, I assume?
If you or anyone else has this value in exact frames, that would be appreciated~

Edit: It's been clarified to me.
 
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blackghost

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bayo, ken/ryu, and falcon should all see some increase in results from these changes.

bayo having witch time be usable again, uptilt be better, and witch twist be safer put her in a much better position.
 

TM 023

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More Brawler info:
 

LGameTales

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https://twitter.com/Ruben_dal/status/1134315199647772678
Lucina's FSmash KBG 77 > 73
Fair KBG 81 > 77
Kill % for FSmash was nerfed by 5%~8% depending on stage position. Kill % for Fair was nerfed by 8%~11% depending.

Also, Isabelle's Fishing Rod was reverted to pre-3.0.0. Smash-throw reel is again active 2-11 (instead of 9-11) and tilt-throw reel is again active 2-11 (instead of 7-11). The hook no longer guarantees 2-frames when hung over the ledge.
 
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