Patch 1.16 Discussion - "The Witch Hunt is over"

[blackghost]

So uhh, nair is pretty godly. The disjoint and speed allow it to go toe-to-toe with some of the best aerials out there. It shuts down a lot of short hop approaches and is almost perfectly safe. It's an excellent move that I've got to learn to use in the neutral more.

i dont think nair is fosjointed at all just very large and its not actually safe at all. it will trade a lo of the time of you are short hoping it. off stage thr trade almost always benefits you.
@SoccerStar9001
look in the vgbootcamp vod from tgis week. if you cant it will be on youtibe next week. they are really slow to upload. my computer is messed up and i cant drop a link on mobile.
but a zero to 80 was done on 8bitman by captain zack. ( i hadnt heard of him) but he proves one thing we should all do: if your opponent has no understanfing of how witch time works no reason to do anything else lol. he also demonstatates that delfino (if still a more common stage) would be her best stage by a hiliairously large margin.

 

[Flamegeyser]

i dont think nair is fosjointed at all just very large and its not actually safe at all. it will trade a lo of the time of you are short hoping it. off stage thr trade almost always benefits you.

It's about as large as bair, and it's safe on shield (although sh nairs won't hit shield with the far hitbox). And trading, even still, unless it's someone like Ryu, is still a good way to stop people from approaching in a certain way IMO.

 

[blackghost]

@SoccerStar9001
right at the 3:58:00 mark. the cloud player escpaes the wt2 but pink chases with an upair and kills anyway.
also saw him (or captain zack) do a grab release on the edge and immediately sh dair and get the kill pre 100. prbably bad di. overall it looks like we will haver to just know more options than our opponents can keep track of. but those kids of characters are ussually pretty good.
grand finals zack vs 8bitman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jME9CmtQKhY
and money match vs a jiggs player that said she beats bayo free
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgdMVv4FQuE

 

[Lorde]

I see Bayonetta's evolving into picking up on your opponent's bad habits and punishing them hard for it. Like, you notice your opponent always does the neutral ledge get-up, so Witch Twist>combo. Or they roll onto the stage a lot, so usmash them. Due to Bayonetta's pretty scary punish game, it's a feasible option for her, instead of just going all-out offensive all of the time.

 

[CyberZixx]

that is a very good thing. means we are forced to play the mental game like other characters. not like we don't have good pressure still because once we get that opening things are in our court just now we gotta read to get the most from our punishes.

 

[33percentgod]

So basically casuals shouldn't be allowed to play Smash?

I know right? I have a close friend who watched me play Smash 4 and is trying to get into it. She is still going through playing the chars to see which "feels" right as her main (right now she's 99% on Yoshi.) But she doesn't know what DI is or reads or anything.

Should she be banned from the game? :/

 

[Ulk]

So basically casuals shouldn't be allowed to play Smash?

Can't fully agree with that. Of course "If you can't DI, don't play this game" is bull****. However, after a few weeks, most casuals should know a little bit about DI and I really can't imagine that the average casual doesn't use DI at all or has no idea there is even such a thing. Of course you can't expect them to know DI in greater detail, as in knowing how to escape pre-patch Witch Twist or knowing about vertical DI. You also can't expect them to pay great attention to DIing or sometimes even consciously doing it at all. But I really don't think the average casual doesn't know anything about it at all.

 

[Ghidorah14]

I think they just worded that poorly.

I'm pretty sure the message was moreso referring to people getting into competitive smash and going to tournaments. If you've come that far in your smash career and still cant DI/SDI? Well, its your own fault if you get 0-death'd.

 

[blackghost]

Can't fully agree with that. Of course "If you can't DI, don't play this game" is bull****. However, after a few weeks, most casuals should know a little bit about DI and I really can't imagine that the average casual doesn't use DI at all or has no idea there is even such a thing. Of course you can't expect them to know DI in greater detail, as in knowing how to escape pre-patch Witch Twist or knowing about vertical DI. You also can't expect them to pay great attention to DIing or sometimes even consciously doing it at all. But I really don't think the average casual doesn't know anything about it at all.

thank you for not continously talkiing down on causual players. i know plenty of people with knowledge of smash mechanics that just have no interest in smash 1v1 with everything they love about the game turned off.
anyway i bayo as being a gatekeeper not of characters but of players. elite players wont lose to many bayos lower level and rising players will. i think its like zangief in street fighter 4.

 

[AkiraGr]

Today I lost terribly to neutral camp players at my local scene. I truly can not adapt to this bait and switch play style plus I need to try more mix ups. My complain with this new Bayo is her poor answer to grabs. She do not have any move to prevent campy players to punish her as they wait for a bair which is now a pressure tool unsafe on block and projectile hit stun grabs.

The DABK approach is not working anymore and Little Mac mop the floor with with me with only 3 hits of super armor Smashes. Little Mac annoys me to no end with his move set resulting to ridiculous knock back after 30% on Bayonetta.

I do not care anymore about the other nerfs give me my DABK back. Projectile characters now destroy my Bayonetta approach because they only afraid 6% damage and they party hard with her landing lag. Players like Grejinja give pain with USmashes and DSmahes.

Really a fair trade the balance team did here, 6% with no follow ups or combos to landing lag up to 20 frames... If I am forced to use a second ABK up to 30 frames.

https://www.twitch.tv/nintendonextlive/v/71837281

Watch around 4:45 to see my first match and the rest after that.

Any advice will be welcomed

 

[Ghidorah14]

Today I lost terribly to neutral camp players at my local scene. I truly can not adapt to this bait and switch play style plus I need to try more mix ups. My complain with this new Bayo is her poor answer to grabs. She do not have any move to prevent campy players to punish her as they wait for a bair which is now a pressure tool unsafe on block and projectile hit stun grabs.

Bair is safe on block if spaced properly.

Bayo has always had a poor neutral and trouble approaching, so thats nothing new. If you're the one being baited and punished, it may just mean you arent being patient enough.

The DABK approach is not working anymore

I wouldnt call it an approach option. More like a movement option with a hit box.

and Little Mac mop the floor with with me with only 3 hits of super armor Smashes. Little Mac annoys me to no end with his move set resulting to ridiculous knock back after 30% on Bayonetta.

Yeah, mac is troublesome. Best advice I can give it to stay airborne as much as possible and mix up your landings. And most of all, DONT TRY LANDING ON/NEAR MAC. His anti-air options are ridiculous.

I do not care anymore about the other nerfs give me my DABK back. Projectile characters now destroy my Bayonetta approach because they only afraid 6% damage and they party hard with her landing lag. Players like Grejinja give pain with USmashes and DSmahes.

Bayo always had trouble with projectiles. If someone is playing the camping game, then you need to outcamp them. Again, it's about patience. If characters like bowser and ike can do it, so can bayo.

Really a fair trade the balance team did here, 6% with no follow ups or combos to landing lag up to 20 frames... If I am forced to use a second ABK up to 30 frames.

It's time to stop complaining about divekick. I know, it was a great move and all, but it was also very easy to abuse. Though I agree that it shouldnt have gotten a damage nerf, I'm fine with the change otherwise. In most situations, it's a free hit anyway, thats also safe on block.

 

[Flamegeyser]

So I just realized that dair can punish a ledge attack, and it kills super early. Granted it's sorta hard to bait, but pretty noice.

 

[Ghidorah14]

So I just realized that dair can punish a ledge attack, and it kills super early. Granted it's sorta hard to bait, but pretty noice.

Ya know what punishes a ledge attack even better?

Witch time - forwardsmash - downsmash.

Cuz sometimes ya just gotta style on fools.

 

[blackghost]

So I just realized that dair can punish a ledge attack, and it kills super early. Granted it's sorta hard to bait, but pretty noice.

you can also use it as a grab release trap at the ledge.

 

[Dre89]

Today I lost terribly to neutral camp players at my local scene. I truly can not adapt to this bait and switch play style plus I need to try more mix ups. My complain with this new Bayo is her poor answer to grabs. She do not have any move to prevent campy players to punish her as they wait for a bair which is now a pressure tool unsafe on block and projectile hit stun grabs.

The DABK approach is not working anymore and Little Mac mop the floor with with me with only 3 hits of super armor Smashes. Little Mac annoys me to no end with his move set resulting to ridiculous knock back after 30% on Bayonetta.

I do not care anymore about the other nerfs give me my DABK back. Projectile characters now destroy my Bayonetta approach because they only afraid 6% damage and they party hard with her landing lag. Players like Grejinja give pain with USmashes and DSmahes.

Really a fair trade the balance team did here, 6% with no follow ups or combos to landing lag up to 20 frames... If I am forced to use a second ABK up to 30 frames.

https://www.twitch.tv/nintendonextlive/v/71837281

Watch around 4:45 to see my first match and the rest after that.

Any advice will be welcomed

How is she more vulnerable to grabs than other characters when she has autocancellable aerials, aerials that are safe on shield and a frame 4 GTFO option than can be used OOS

You're complaining that you have to mix up your options like every other character now as opposed to just being able to spam one safe option that yielded massive reward.

DABK is a second, free aerial sideb. Instead of complaining about one of her four types of sidebs not being being able to combo ontop of being safe, just be grateful she even has the option in the first place. Most characters would kill to have two types of sidebs.

If you're just using bair predictably enough that they can always wait and grab it, then you deserve to lose neutral for not mixing up your options. Any character would have this issue if they just recycled the same option again and again.

 

[C0rvus]

My biggest problem in many matchups has been killing. If I don't get a read and land Witch Time and a smash attack, I'm usually killing with dtilt or utilt to up air, raw back airs, or fthrows at ledge. Those take too long against characters like Cloud, Ryu, and heavies who can rip stocks out of you, especially with rage. I imagine the simple answer is to get gimps and focus on horizontal combos and force those offstage interactions. Against Cloud this seems to be the gameplan, but it's pretty hard to get anything started against him.

 

[Philos-kun]

Seems like a lot of people forget that Bayo can effectively edge-guard without any trouble and you can punish poor recoveries with Fair3 (Cloud), Jump -> Dair for surprise kill or easy to read recoveries, WTime on ledge for a Dsmash, Bair on angled stages, use Witch Twist, etc.

dABK might be terrible but you can still use it to damage the opponent and to stop their projectile spam.

 

[Flamegeyser]

How is she more vulnerable to grabs than other characters when she has autocancellable aerials, aerials that are safe on shield and a frame 4 GTFO option than can be used OOS

You're complaining that you have to mix up your options like every other character now as opposed to just being able to spam one safe option that yielded massive reward.

DABK is a second, free aerial sideb. Instead of complaining about one of her four types of sidebs not being being able to combo ontop of being safe, just be grateful she even has the option in the first place. Most characters would kill to have two types of sidebs.

If you're just using bair predictably enough that they can always wait and grab it, then you deserve to lose neutral for not mixing up your options. Any character would have this issue if they just recycled the same option again and again.

Get that salt outta here, I can taste it from my computer. You're not wrong though, divekick is great as a landing option, although it can be punished by just about anyone who can see it coming, especially since we don't have much in the way of landing aerials other than BA nair, which is unsafe on shield. Still, given that our ground game is pretty bad, and our approach options are limited to sh ff aerials (however safe they are, there's only about one mixup that grants you) and the fact that, in spite of popular opinion, WTw's hitbox isn't actually all that good, grabs are in fact a huge problem, and so are projectiles, especially compared to other high tiers.

My biggest problem in many matchups has been killing. If I don't get a read and land Witch Time and a smash attack, I'm usually killing with dtilt or utilt to up air, raw back airs, or fthrows at ledge. Those take too long against characters like Cloud, Ryu, and heavies who can rip stocks out of you, especially with rage. I imagine the simple answer is to get gimps and focus on horizontal combos and force those offstage interactions. Against Cloud this seems to be the gameplan, but it's pretty hard to get anything started against him.

Yeah, gimps are the only easy way to get relatively low kills. Otherwise you're killing in just about the best ways we have ATM. It might seem bad to spam WTi, and it is, but don't hold back on punishing lingering hitboxes, because even if the WTi isn't long enough to get a proper punish, it'll instill the fear of an incredibly early kill if they use too many of the same options. Besides, so long as the enemy is close enough, any WTi can land a dtilt/utilt into usmash if the WTi activates, and if that doesn't flat out kill, it'll do good damage and again put them above you (which isn't a good position against bayo).

Cloud is gimp food. If you can ever manage him offstage, BA nair pretty much shuts down his options, since it trades with even the rising hitbox of Climhazzard, and if he's already that far, he's super dead. BC is also useful in stopping Limit camping, but you have to do it sparingly and at max range otherwise he can dash attack punish. BC also cancels out his neutral b, so he can't camp with that too much. WTw beats out fh dair, as does utilt I think. Oh yeah, and WTi naturally beats dair too . Cloud isn't too bad IMO, not compared to someone like Megaman or Tink.

 

[Dre89]

Get that salt outta here, I can taste it from my computer. You're not wrong though, divekick is great as a landing option, although it can be punished by just about anyone who can see it coming, especially since we don't have much in the way of landing aerials other than BA nair, which is unsafe on shield. Still, given that our ground game is pretty bad, and our approach options are limited to sh ff aerials (however safe they are, there's only about one mixup that grants you) and the fact that, in spite of popular opinion, WTw's hitbox isn't actually all that good, grabs are in fact a huge problem, and so are projectiles, especially compared to other high tiers.



Yeah, gimps are the only easy way to get relatively low kills. Otherwise you're killing in just about the best ways we have ATM. It might seem bad to spam WTi, and it is, but don't hold back on punishing lingering hitboxes, because even if the WTi isn't long enough to get a proper punish, it'll instill the fear of an incredibly early kill if they use too many of the same options. Besides, so long as the enemy is close enough, any WTi can land a dtilt/utilt into usmash if the WTi activates, and if that doesn't flat out kill, it'll do good damage and again put them above you (which isn't a good position against bayo).

Cloud is gimp food. If you can ever manage him offstage, BA nair pretty much shuts down his options, since it trades with even the rising hitbox of Climhazzard, and if he's already that far, he's super dead. BC is also useful in stopping Limit camping, but you have to do it sparingly and at max range otherwise he can dash attack punish. BC also cancels out his neutral b, so he can't camp with that too much. WTw beats out fh dair, as does utilt I think. Oh yeah, and WTi naturally beats dair too . Cloud isn't too bad IMO, not compared to someone like Megaman or Tink.

Her landing options are good when you consider all the mobility options she has to mix up where she lands. BA nair isn't safe on shield but it forces a 50/50 because if they shield anticipating it you can just land without commuting to anything, then either dtilt or dashgrab.

It's true she can't mix up between many options in neutral, but those options cover everything so it's fine.

WTw doesn't need to hit them to be a good GTFO because it doesn't put her in free fall. If you get into a CQC situation you can mitigate your frame data weakness by peacing out with upb and resetting.

 

[Flamegeyser]

Her landing options are good when you consider all the mobility options she has to mix up where she lands. BA nair isn't safe on shield but it forces a 50/50 because if they shield anticipating it you can just land without commuting to anything, then either dtilt or dashgrab.

It's true she can't mix up between many options in neutral, but those options cover everything so it's fine.

WTw doesn't need to hit them to be a good GTFO because it doesn't put her in free fall. If you get into a CQC situation you can mitigate your frame data weakness by peacing out with upb and resetting.

BA nair itself has a long animation, the best you can do is cancel it like right above their head and hope they don't notice. I guess that's not technically unsafe so long as you take precaution, but I think most people's jabs beat that out. Otherwise a regular spaced nair is probably better, more shieldstun and if spaced, is safe.

 

[EODM07]

Been a few days since I last posted here. But I thought it'd be best if I posted some information I got regarding two Bayonetta combos which I've tested in Training Mode.

I might make a video on these combos and them against the certain characters.

Spoiler: Combo #1

DTilt > UTilt > SH/FHNAir
0% (Most characters. Except )
10% on

, and are awkward and can only be combo'd by this from behind.

Against the characters that cannot be combo'd by DTilt > UTilt > SH/FHNAir, best to either not do the combo, or try and risk it with a SHFUAir > UTilt > SHNAir (Kirby cannot be combo'd by this either). And a few of them can only be combo'd into DTilt > UTilt, as the UTilt launches them too high to get combo'd.

has a different combo that Bayo can perform at 0%. DTilt > UTilt > FHUAir > ABK, the first hit of UTilt sends ZSS behind Bayonetta, allowing her to TC into UAir and ABK

Spoiler: Combo #2

DTilt > UTilt > SH/FHUAir > DJ NAir > ABK > UAir
This works on most of the cast. But at different percents.
5% on
10% on
15% on
20% on (Limit)
25% on

Characters that cannot be comboed by this are:


can be combo'd at 10%, but you get a different combo, where you can get a 2nd UTilt after the 1st, the window is tighter however.

These were all tested on Omega Battlefield.

Also, despite these percents; some characters can only be combo'd up to the NAir. Whereas others are in tight windows.

If Combo #2 is too difficult, there's an alternative. You can replace the NAir with a FAir 1.

 

[Flamegeyser]

So if anyone didn't know, I'll remind you. Over in the Bayo Discord, two combos were discovered following the nerf. We've always had these, but they weren't optimal when a combo could kill, so the playerbase didn't really care. We've dubbed these (and by we, I mean the creators) "Paradiso" and "Purgatorio". Paradiso is fair1->uair, it's very frame tight and difficult, but it's a true combo (amazingly enough). It can be done several times at low%s and makes fair combos much more viable. Purgatorio is any number of uair->bair strings (or vice versa). It's also pretty frame tight, but not nearly as bad since buffering the next attack in the string will not just lead into fair2 like Paradiso. The bairs have to be sour for the most part, as a sweet bair will often launch too far, but at low%s this doesn't matter as much. It's an incredibly damaging string, and if you can end it with a bair (which is easy, since bair launches far), then you can follow up with an ABK at lower%s. A common combo I try and use is dtilt->pivot bair->uair->bair->(depending on sour or sweet bair) uair and ABK respectively, and after either of those, followups are pretty easy. Purgatorio, if done with any measure of success, will often do 50%+, and Paradiso 40%+ depending on followups. They aren't exactly kill confirms, but if we can work on making damage racking easier, all it takes after that is just one good read. By those measures, our potential is still sky high.

 

[Ghidorah14]

So if anyone didn't know, I'll remind you. Over in the Bayo Discord, two combos were discovered following the nerf. We've always had these, but they weren't optimal when a combo could kill, so the playerbase didn't really care. We've dubbed these (and by we, I mean the creators) "Paradiso" and "Purgatorio". Paradiso is fair1->uair, it's very frame tight and difficult, but it's a true combo (amazingly enough). It can be done several times at low%s and makes fair combos much more viable. Purgatorio is any number of uair->bair strings (or vice versa). It's also pretty frame tight, but not nearly as bad since buffering the next attack in the string will not just lead into fair2 like Paradiso. The bairs have to be sour for the most part, as a sweet bair will often launch too far, but at low%s this doesn't matter as much. It's an incredibly damaging string, and if you can end it with a bair (which is easy, since bair launches far), then you can follow up with an ABK at lower%s. A common combo I try and use is dtilt->pivot bair->uair->bair->(depending on sour or sweet bair) uair and ABK respectively, and after either of those, followups are pretty easy. Purgatorio, if done with any measure of success, will often do 50%+, and Paradiso 40%+ depending on followups. They aren't exactly kill confirms, but if we can work on making damage racking easier, all it takes after that is just one good read. By those measures, our potential is still sky high.

Sooooooo...can we get a demonstration of these combos?

 

[Flamegeyser]

Sooooooo...can we get a demonstration of these combos?

Oh of course, silly me. I don't have any recording hardware so I'll just take a few from the tech/combo page also created by the Bayo Discord (more specifically Pinka, the head of the same).

Long Paradiso Combo: https://vid.me/2NR4

Long Purgatorio Witch Time Combo (It works without the Witch Time, but this was the best example I could find): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5I3SxRIy-A

 

[Ghidorah14]

Oh of course, silly me. I don't have any recording hardware so I'll just take a few from the tech/combo page also created by the Bayo Discord (more specifically Pinka, the head of the same).

Long Paradiso Combo: https://vid.me/2NR4

Long Purgatorio Witch Time Combo (It works without the Witch Time, but this was the best example I could find): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5I3SxRIy-A

Nice!

Have you tested these on non-fast fallers?

 

[Flamegeyser]

Nice!

Have you tested these on non-fast fallers?

I have, but like I said they're super hard. Paradiso is almost always true, and it's nearly impossible to DI with fast fallers, while anyone floatier still has trouble. Purgatorio might be able to be DI'd away so that the sour bairs can be turned sweet, but it works for at least 2 strings on all but the floatiest IIRC (don't quote me on that), and naturally it works better on those that don't fly too high from the uairs, but at low%s, it should work regardless.

 

[blackghost]

I have, but like I said they're super hard. Paradiso is almost always true, and it's nearly impossible to DI with fast fallers, while anyone floatier still has trouble. Purgatorio might be able to be DI'd away so that the sour bairs can be turned sweet, but it works for at least 2 strings on all but the floatiest IIRC (don't quote me on that), and naturally it works better on those that don't fly too high from the uairs, but at low%s, it should work regardless.

i saw pink do that last week at xanadu. ill try to find the vod.

 

[Philos-kun]

The Paradiso Combo so far didn't work on Mario, Rosalina, Luigi, Lucario, Kirby and Yoshi.

But it DID work on Diddy, CPU lvl 9:

The first Fair to Uair it's hard to combo but after that one, the other Fairs to Uairs are easier to conect. Also, the timing is hard to get at first and the opponent must be close to you

 

[Funbot28]

Has this combo been applied in tournament level yet? Also wouldn't second WT be SDI'able?

 

[Lorde]

Neither of the combos are anything new

Fair1>uair was the basis of the side blastzone kill combos, so that has been around forever

Uair follow-ups have already been discussed in here (and they've literally been around forever since neither uair nor bair have been touched in patches)

But whatever, I guess it's good that word is getting around about them

Just please, for the love of God, stop calling them cringy and stupid names. The only relevance they have is that the names come from Bayonetta's games. The Smash scene already has enough stupid names for combos and tech; we don't need any more.

 

[Ghidorah14]

Oh good, I thought it was just me thinking those names were cringy.

I mean, we've had hoo-hah, beep boop, ding dong, koo-pah, etc. I remember that the meta knight boards spent so much time trying to name their upair-upB combo, that it got nerfed before they could settle on one!

We're bayo mains, people; we have more class than that.

 

[Flamegeyser]

Were people already using fair1->uair? I had no idea tbh. Anyways, it's all up to you, I suppose, I just thought it'd be cool if we could have the same terms for it is all (even cringey ones lol).

 

[Lorde]

The side blastzone kill combo (some people called it the 9B combo, I think) was just fair1>uair>Witch Twist>fair123 or something along those lines. I'm surprised you haven't heard of it, considering that oddshot of 9B killing that Meta Knight off of the side blastzone was like literally everywhere.

Edit: did some searching and found the oddshot, so here it is:
link

 

[Flamegeyser]

For some reason I thought it was something else, but yeah I've heard of the 9B before.

 

[deepseadiva]

IDGAF what we call them but they should at least make some sense. Paradiso should kill off the top, Purgatorio off the side, Inferno should spike etc etc

 

[Flamegeyser]

IDGAF what we call them but they should at least make some sense. Paradiso should kill off the top, Purgatorio off the side, Inferno should spike etc etc

None of them are truly supposed to kill, they stop comboing way before that (except maybe the last one), they're supposed to rack up damage so we can land the kill. Raw bairs, fthrow, and dtilt->uair are our primary kill options.

EDIT: So in that way none of them are really anything like what you said lol. There's just not a whole lot of Bayonetta themed names that work for combos. They were named by their "creators" (despite how they have always existed, just not used in general). Feel free to use them or not, I just thought it'd be cool if we could use the same terminology.

 

[Hickz]

I think "Paradiso" and "Purgatorio" sound MUCH better than "Hoo-hah" and "Beep-boop."

 

[blackghost]

can we talk about the diddy matchup? i just watched pink fresh fight angel a player that I beleive he is way better than but the matchup of bayo vs diddy is so bad he can seem to get an advantage. pink immediately went to lucas game 3 and lost.

 

[Patriarachnid]

So this happened today.

That being an extremely stupid replay aside (as well as REALLY suboptimal Bayonetta play on my part [I haven't slept in a while]), the actual zero-death at the end got me thinking about how rage affects Bayonetta Combos™. It's not something we've discussed a lot here, I don't think. It's worth looking into, seeing what all becomes more or less true/difficult to escape/deadly with varying levels of rage.

Also, that replay is really dumb. I'm kind of mad.

 

[blackghost]

im sorry can we talk bout how wii fit upair cleanly beat a divekick? thats ridiculous.
either way that wii fit should be ale to (at the very least) escape wt2. but the rage allows our fair string to have knockback like it did prepatch.