Patch 1.16 Discussion - "The Witch Hunt is over"

[Funbot28]

​

So as you may or may not know, Bayonetta has been hit pretty hard this patch due to public outcry from the smash community. Most of these changes affect her playstyle tremendously and can potentially change her viability drastically. She can still combo, but it is extremely difficult now to pull of a true 0% to death combo. Here is a full list of the changes:

• Dtilt:
  • Hitbox Size: 3.5 -> 2.8
  • FAF: 36F -> 38F
• Fair:
  • First Hit Damage: 3.8 -> 3
  • Second Hit Damage: 2.8% -> 2.2%
  • Third Hit:
    • KBG: 82 -> 68
    • Autocancel Frame: 32> -> 33>
    • FAF: 36 -> 37
• Dair Landing Hit KBG: 140 -> 135
• After Burner Kick:
  • Upwards Kick:
    • All Hitboxes SDI Multiplier: 1 -> 2
    • Early Hit KBG: 40 -> 50
    • Normal Hit KBG: 30 -> 38
    • Late Hit KBG: 100 -> 112
  • Divekick:
    • Damage: 8% -> 6.5%
    • Angle: 80° -> 60°
    • Hitbox Size: 6.5 -> 4.5
    • SDI Multiplier: 1 -> 2
• Witch Twist:
  • All Hitboxes SDI Multiplier: 1 -> 2
  • Early Middle Hit:
    • Upper Hitbox:
      • KBG: 100 -> 97
      • WKB: 160 -> 140
      • Hitbox Y Position: 24 -> 21
    • Both Hitbox Sizes: 8 -> 7
  • Middle Middle Hit:
    • Upper Hitbox Y Position: 24 -> 21
    • Both Hitbox Sizes: 8 -> 7
  • Late Middle Hit:
    • Upper Hitbox Y Position: 24 -> 21
    • Lower Hitbox WKB: 160 -> 135
    • Both Hitbox Sizes: 8 -> 7
  • Last Hit (First Use):
    • KBG: 105 -> 80
    • BKB: 50 -> 55
    • Hitbox Size: 9 -> 8.5
    • Hitbox Y Position: 20 -> 19
  • Last Hit (Second Use):
    • KBG: 30 -> 50
    • Hitbox Size: 9 -> 8.5
    • Hitbox Y Position: 20 -> 19

Discuss your opinions on the new Bayonetta
I cry every time

 

[Buddhahobo]

Let's start with the preliminary stuff going around:

Her downwards Dive Kick, what used to be her most important move, is seemingly entirely useless.

https://embed.gyazo.com/f7e469008b7c5bf2b56403584c2f448c.mp4

Her normal arial side b might be broken.

https://vid.me/UBoA

Witch Twist is seemingly absurdly easy to DI out of, for barely any damage. This is bad, considering how it was also one of her most damaging moves.

https://vid.me/Sxk9

She never had frame data to write home about, witch time is still bad, but at least she still has her bair I guess.

She's a combo heavy character who can no longer combo. The entire point of her design, multiple special moves in the air (hence the increased lag on landing)...looks like it's gone. She's at most a pure bait and punish character now, with singular attacks.

So she can't approach besides in telegraphed ways, can't really damage, has slow smashes that seem to clank with half of the things in the game, a waft, and some edge guarding options.

Well find out more once the patch actually hits and we can test ourselves, but it's not looking good.

 

[Rose alumna]

Oooo something new to work with (^o^)/
Can't wait to see what creative new combos comes out of this LETS SHOW THEM THE WITCH HAS NOT BEEN KILLED U ONLY BURNED HER she's a human btw .3. She probably only suffered minor burns.

Now let's see potential new combos.
Well so far sense her heel slide hasent been touched I was thinking her old combo
Hs>Up tilt>Nair>Maybe abk>bair
Although this is not a true combo sense you can air dodge the up tilt I feel this is a good starting point for discusstion.

 

[Buddhahobo]

Although this is not a true combo sense you can air dodge the up tilt I feel this is a good starting point for discusstion.

I'm not entirely sure how there can be any discussion.

We don't have the patch. All we do have is some videos from modders who datamined the server early. That's one of the problems, aside from everyone cheering "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead"; we can't test any of this ourselves yet.

 

[Ghidorah14]

THE SHADOW REMAINS CAST.

I'll still play her. Love bayo too much to quit now.

 

[CreamyFatone]

Let's start with the preliminary stuff going around:

Her downwards Dive Kick, what used to be her most important move, is seemingly entirely useless.

https://embed.gyazo.com/f7e469008b7c5bf2b56403584c2f448c.mp4

Her normal arial side b might be broken.

https://vid.me/UBoA

Witch Twist is seemingly absurdly easy to DI out of, for barely any damage. This is bad, considering how it was also one of her most damaging moves.

https://vid.me/Sxk9

She never had frame data to write home about, witch time is still bad, but at least she still has her bair I guess.

She's a combo heavy character who can no longer combo. The entire point of her design, multiple special moves in the air (hence the increased lag on landing)...looks like it's gone. She's at most a pure bait and punish character now, with singular attacks.

So she can't approach besides in telegraphed ways, can't really damage, has slow smashes that seem to clank with half of the things in the game, a waft, and some edge guarding options.

Well find out more once the patch actually hits and we can test ourselves, but it's not looking good.

What the ****ing **** is happening with her normal ABK, holy ****. You can't even get that kind of SDI from a falcon knee, it looks like Shy Guy DI from melee or something. If Jigglypuff wasn't a counterpick this patch, she will be now. This has to be the jankiest thing I've ever seen in this game. I guess what this means practically is that you're not going to be getting many combos out of that close hit anymore, you have to try to hit with the end of it. That's terribly telegraphed, wow.

You know, the only reason why this character might still be good besides her counter is because of the jank that will come out as a consequence of this patch. Looking at Witch Twist, if you catch them with it high, like reading an airdodge or something, and they SDI out they might just die from falling out of it no matter what percent they are. So that means that they have to DI into you meaning you might actually be able to carry them into the ceiling blast zone.

In regards to dABK, I foresee new experimentation with offstage, maybe having a bouncing fish type effect or at least jettisoning Bayo out deep to menace opponents with her aerials. It will always be useful for landing, but maybe the shockwave from a short-hop dABK will see more play now. It's not as ridiculously disjointed now, so you can't just bounce on a shield anymore safely. In a way that's good, because I think if a Bayo player did that a lot they would get punished on landing anyway.

She can probably still combo very well, just not in the way that Bayonetta players are used too, with guaranteed combos that always do big damage. You'll have a lot of smaller, and less risky combos and spend less gametime actually carrying your opponent up. I actually think Bayo is going to prefer a lot more edgeguarding and horizontal strings now.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Looking at Witch Twist, if you catch them with it high, like reading an airdodge or something, and they SDI out they might just die from falling out of it no matter what percent they are. So that means that they have to DI into you meaning you might actually be able to carry them into the ceiling blast zone.

The autolink KB was reduced, and Bayonetta can barely put her opponent so close to the top blast zone anymore.

In regards to dABK, I foresee new experimentation with offstage, maybe having a bouncing fish type effect or at least jettisoning Bayo out deep to menace opponents with her aerials. It will always be useful for landing, but maybe the shockwave from a short-hop dABK will see more play now. It's not as ridiculously disjointed now, so you can't just bounce on a shield anymore safely. In a way that's good, because I think if a Bayo player did that a lot they would get punished on landing anyway.

Dive Kicking off the stage may lead to death, and the move's damage is reduced and deals only about half of bouncing fish's damage with extremely low KBG.
Everything else is accurate though.

She can probably still combo very well, just not in the way that Bayonetta players are used too, with guaranteed combos that always do big damage. You'll have a lot of smaller, and less risky combos and spend less gametime actually carrying your opponent up. I actually think Bayo is going to prefer a lot more edgeguarding and horizontal strings now.

Chances are, normal DI can screw up a lot of her horizontal combos and her combos are only gonna do maybe 10 to 15% reliablely. Maybe 20% if you are lucky.

 

[Buddhahobo]

Well, it's live now.

I guess we can start discussing.

 

[Quantumpen]

So, just a bit of info for you guys...

Some characters, like Mewtwo can now SDI out of witch twist downwards and then punish Bayo for landing a successful witch-twist. SDI Down + DJ + Fair will kill Bayonetta if she hits Mewtwo with an up-b close to the blast zone and he predicts it well enough to properly SDI.

All of the zero to death combos are out. I tested this last night since I downloaded the patch as a mod, but just reconfirmed. You can't get anything off of a second witch twist, any predicted witch twist can just be SDI'd out of without the need to break your controller, and no dive kick means most of the existing sky carry combos from up b or witch time are gone.

She's going to need an entirely new playstyle.

 

[Buddhahobo]

So, just a bit of info for you guys...

Some characters, like Mewtwo can now SDI out of witch twist downwards and then punish Bayo for landing a successful witch-twist. SDI Down + DJ + Fair will kill Bayonetta if she hits Mewtwo with an up-b close to the blast zone and he predicts it well enough to properly SDI.

All of the zero to death combos are out. I tested this last night since I downloaded the patch as a mod, but just reconfirmed. You can't get anything off of a second witch twist, any predicted witch twist can just be SDI'd out of without the need to break your controller, and no dive kick means most of the existing sky carry combos from up b or witch time are gone.

She's going to need an entirely new playstyle.

Thank you for the information.

If I may direct the thread, I'd recommend anyone with the time to lab focus on ways one can rack up damage in this new environment.

We already didn't really get our kills consistantly until ~80% anyway, but without two W.Twists for damage, our damage output has probably taken a huge hit.

 

[Quantumpen]

You can still get something like Witch Twist, Jump -> ABK, ABK reverse, Witch Twist(They'll probably SDI this one) or an aerial. It's a solid 25% ish damage with the potential to kill at high percents off of a bair.

Best case scenario is Witch Twist -> Dj-fair, ABK, Witch Twist 3x Fair. Last witch twist is risky, safe option is to do bair or uair

I don't think SDIing the first witch twist is super easy because of how fast the move comes out.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Basically, she is heavily reliant on Witch Time now for damage and killing. And that isn't good because Witch Time decays, oh I wish it didn't now.

You can still get something like Witch Twist, Jump -> ABK, ABK reverse, Witch Twist(They'll probably SDI this one) or an aerial. It's a solid 25% ish damage with the potential to kill at high percents off of a bair.

You can SDI the first ABK so the second one miss, and if does they can punish the landing lag afterwards so this is high risk low rewards.

 

[Astrofallz]

So bad thing about labbing combos with this character is that it will always require two people now. If you are labbing combos by yourself do not trust them.

I'm gonna guess that Bayo is gonna thrive on following DI with short and sweet combos and mixups. She gets in does a bit of damage and gets out. She's not gonna be taking anyone from 0-60 like she did in the past unless your opponent just doesn't touch their controller.

Short and sweet combo for example; Dtilt -> Nair -> ABK -> WT/aerial ender -> Dabk away.

Only time will tell but this is what I see her doing now.

 

[Quantumpen]

ABK hits once, it's not that easy to SDI without artificial machine reflexes. You can mix-up your options, go for the ABK sometimes, the fair sometimes, etc.

I definitely think Witch twist -> fair -> ABK -> ABK/an aerial -> (possible) witch twist is still viable. Just watch the second witch twist if you're against a character than can SDI out and punish you.

 

[Astrofallz]

ABK hits once, it's not that easy to SDI without artificial machine reflexes. You can mix-up your options, go for the ABK sometimes, the fair sometimes, etc.

I definitely think Witch twist -> fair -> ABK -> ABK/an aerial -> (possible) witch twist is still viable. Just watch the second witch twist if you're against a character than can SDI out and punish you.

Mixing up options is gonna be super important now. Once a combo opportunity presents itself, you're gonna have smart with where your moves are placed so that your get the opponent to sdi incorrectly.

 

[Alfador!]

I dunno yet.. I see this as possibly an opportunity for more interesting play styles honestly, instead of the very similar approaches every match which gets kinda meh to play and play against. It will be fun to play around with.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Legitimate questions here:

1) Does the SDI modifier change affect held Witch Twist (I imagine it totally does, but thought best to check)?
2) If so, how much does the new SDI modifier affect held Witch Twist?

My thinking was, that if it was harder to SDI held Witch Twist, we could at least attempt to hold the 2nd Witch Twist to make it harder for people to SDI out.

Does held Witch Twist do any more damage at all anyway? If so, it might just be best to hold the 2nd Witch Twist anyway and go for some extra damage, seeing as the opponent will likely catch on and try SDI-ing out by the 2nd Witch Twist.

 

[Buddhahobo]

I dunno yet.. I see this as possibly an opportunity for more interesting play styles honestly, instead of the very similar approaches every match which gets kinda meh to play and play against. It will be fun to play around with.

The opposite will probably happen, honestly.

No one but Bayo players will actually recognize it as such though, as the vast majority of the community has proven time and again that they have absolutely no idea what this character does or how she works.

 

[AkiraGr]

The character is completely destroyed. Nothing works with dabk.

Combos like dtilt>utilt>dabk>fairtilt or any variants of this do not work because of the angle and increased knockback.

Combos like dtitl>utilt>2dabk are out of the question. Not even a dtilt>utilt>fair>abk>dabk>fair tils do not work...

I am so pissed right now, I can barely control my temper not to break the game. They completely ruin her...

 

[Astrofallz]

The character is completely destroyed. Nothing works with dabk.

Combos like dtilt>utilt>dabk>fairtilt or any variants of this do not work because of the angle and increased knockback.

Combos like dtitl>utilt>2dabk are out of the question. Not even a dtilt>utilt>fair>abk>dabk>fair tils do not work...

I am so pissed right now, I can barely control my temper not to break the game. They completely ruin her...

Let's hold off on the "Bayo is destroyed talk". I agree that she is nowhere near 1.1.5 Bayo.

The combos you listed are based around old dabk. Obviously they are not going to work. In fact I would completely remove dabk as a combo tool from your repertoire.

 

[Buddhahobo]

Let's hold off on the "Bayo is destroyed talk". I agree that she is nowhere near 1.1.5 Bayo.

The combos you listed are based around old dabk. Obviously they are not going to work. In fact I would completely remove dabk as a combo tool from your repertoire.

Her most important move, dive kick, appears to be worthless.

Her few approaches are all telegraphed.

Witch Twist seems to be so unsafe you're just as likely to put yourself into a worse position (and probably a KO) depending on the circumstance. Characters can DI below her now. If ZSS didn't win the matchup before, she does now.

She still has her edgeguarding tools and what used to make her "combo heavy character" now makes her a "keep away character". Only she also doesn't have the damage output to really do that, and she gets extra lag if she uses too many moves in the air to get away.

What I'm seeing does not follow the design philosophy outlined in her developer video.

 

[Bowserboy3]

The thing what stings the most about DABK, is they could have even reworked it into a semi useful/powerful combo finisher at the very least. With it's angle, they could have even lowered the angle a bit more and given it a bit increased knockback, but in it's current form, it's almost useless. Now, it literally does nothing useful for offence or combos. It's only real use now is for getting to the ledge quickly from above, or as an extra option for landing in a different spot.

Just linking people back to my post before, still looking for an answer - http://smashboards.com/threads/patch-1-16-discussion-the-witch-hunt-is-over.436930/#post-21190897

 

[Astrofallz]

Legitimate questions here:

1) Does the SDI modifier change affect held Witch Twist (I imagine it totally does, but thought best to check)?
2) If so, how much does the new SDI modifier affect held Witch Twist?

My thinking was, that if it was harder to SDI held Witch Twist, we could at least attempt to hold the 2nd Witch Twist to make it harder for people to SDI out.

Does held Witch Twist do any more damage at all anyway? If so, it might just be best to hold the 2nd Witch Twist anyway and go for some extra damage, seeing as the opponent will likely catch on and try SDI-ing out by the 2nd Witch Twist.

I can't check for myself but I would assume the modifier is the same. BA Witch twist is still witch twist so I would assume that it get the same treatment. Also, BA WT only does 2 more percent and if it is the second WT it puts Bayo at frame disadvantage so I'd say it isn't worth.

Buddhahobo honestly she is probably gonna play nothing like her original design now. She has moved away from a pure combo heavy char into something different. So you're not wrong. In a sense I guess you could say that 1.1.5 Bayo has been destroyed but another Bayo has been implemented in her place and we're gonna be spending this patch figuring out what that Bayo is.

 

[Masque]

What I'm seeing does not follow the design philosophy outlined in her developer video.

That's my biggest problem with these nerfs. The reason I was so excited about her treatment is how faithfully they recreated her toolkit (0%-death combos aside) from her original games. If nothing connects now, however, how can she be called a "combo character"?

 

[AkiraGr]

Another thing after burner kick do not connect with an up air anymore... Another kill combo at high percentages removed...

I think the neutral b has less ending lag but that must be a placebo. I will go cry in a corner for all the lost months I put in lab with my favorite character...

 

[Buddhahobo]

That's my biggest problem with these nerfs. The reason I was so excited about her treatment is how faithfully they recreated her toolkit (0%-death combos aside) from her original games. If nothing connects now, however, how can she be called a "combo character"?

She can't.

I don't especially care about her competitive viability.

I do, however, care that the character I voted for in the ballot is no longer true to her source material.

Buddhahobo honestly she is probably gonna play nothing like her original design now. She has moved away from a pure combo heavy char into something different. So you're not wrong. In a sense I guess you could say that 1.1.5 Bayo has been destroyed but another Bayo has been implemented in her place and we're gonna be spending this patch figuring out what that Bayo is.

The clearest path forward is bait and punish, like I originally said about.

The majority of her aerial specials are really there for "keep away" at the moment, only she still has to deal with the poor frame data and the like the ability to combo was supposed to make up for, plus the extra lag with no pay off through using special moves in the air.

 

[bc1910]

Just dropped in to say I really like what I'm seeing in this thread. Lots of lab work and discussion around how you're going to adapt, not much whining about the nerfs. Really well done guys. You should have seen the Sonic boards after the minor nerf to his Fsmash, it was pathetic.

I can't say where Bayo will end up but my fist impression is that these nerfs were about as bad as the original Greninja nerfs in terms of playing the character and realising they are nowhere near as good and play nothing like they used to. It's a horrible feeling and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I think Bayo is the only character for whom we might be able to make a case for being nerfed worse than Greninja; time will tell.

Keep up the lab work though, she still has a ton of strengths that should keep her strong in many situations.

 

[shininimuss]

ABK hits once, it's not that easy to SDI without artificial machine reflexes.

it doesn't seem like it would that difficult especially with smash 4's hit lag.

 

[Absol]

Sheik mains sucked it up and kept at you and I'm sure you all will too. I'm positive she's going to still have a lot of tournament representation. Sucks having to carry the burden of others complaints on your back, but all you can do is use that as motivation to show you still can do well despite the nerfs and prove people wrong.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Sheik mains sucked it up and kept at you and I'm sure you all will too. I'm positive she's going to still have a lot of tournament representation. Sucks having to carry the burden of others complaints on your back, but all you can do is use that as motivation to show you still can do well despite the nerfs and prove people wrong.

The thing was Sheik still has great framedata, mobility, combos, and tools like needle to push her. Bayonetta has none of those.

EDIT: To be honest, I feel like I am playing a slower fast falling Jigglypuff now.

 

[Buddhahobo]

Sheik mains sucked it up and kept at you and I'm sure you all will too. I'm positive she's going to still have a lot of tournament representation. Sucks having to carry the burden of others complaints on your back, but all you can do is use that as motivation to show you still can do well despite the nerfs and prove people wrong.

The comparison to Sheik is not very apt, given she kept the damage output, the frame data, and zoning abilities that were nerfed from "Can outcamp a Toon Link" to "Cannot outcamp a Toon Link".

This is going to be an uphill battle with a character who simply isn't the same character. To put it another way, Melee Falco is replaced with Smash 4 Falco, and everyone is eager to see what jolly tricks Westballz comes up with 24 hours later before a giant tournament.

Bayonetta was a character made with very clear strengths and weaknesses. She never had as many tools at her disposal as Diddy or Sheik, but what she did had was given specifically to compensate for those particular weaknesses. Now she doesn't have the strengths, but the very particular weaknesses remain. What makes those weaknesses particularly vexing at this stage of development is just how downright bizarre they are without the matching component.

It's doubly difficult considering how Bayonetta was never nearly as good as people kept saying she was. We have people still saying that, as of last night, if she touches you, you're either dead or take a consistent 50+% damage, that still think Witch Time is a dependable part of her moveset and keep calling it a counter, and that she was in any way the best character in the game at any point in the past three and a half months.

In one sense, this is like Greninja's nerf.

In another, it's more like a regression of Samus's buffs.

We have moves that simply don't work, hitboxes that don't make sense. A character specific problem (increased ending lab with aerial special usage) with nothing to show for it. The way forward is not going to involve using more of our moveset, but less.

At the moment, the biggest thing is figuring out our damage combos. How to get from low to mid, then mid to high / kill percent for at the very least Bair, if not some sort of WT + Uair KO.

 

[Thinktron]

I Can agree she was Nerfed a little to much, honestly All i thought she needed was a weight reduction so she could be a glass cannon of sorts,

But Lets be positive people, she has her amazing recovery, Her very simple 30% combos are still there If you mix up your B reversals, She still has which time and that down air is still ridiculous in power, her forward tilt is still Hitting people 40 million feet in front of her, im sure shes still at the VERY least At the top of mid tier,

 

[Funbot28]

So I have tried her out in the new patch, and the angle redirection on ABK kinda sucks as you can no longer combo it into itself anymore. I usually tend to ABK then Dive Kick to follow their DI, but even after the DK its really hard to pull of a Witch Twist consistently. Her damage combos are all still here whicg is nice to put people in range of Witch Time smash attacks/ Witch Twist U-Air (which is even harder to pull of thanks to SDI)/ Back Air. I will still main her alongside Rosa, but no longer being able to guarantee stocks that easy makes her harder to play.

I predict she is at least bottom high tier, maybe even top tier depending if Tyroy and Pinkfresh still decide to carry her. She can still get free damage quite easily.

Edit: Also people seem to forget that ABK still bounces off shield at relatively the same distance. Which means she somewhat has ways to punish.

 

[Bowserboy3]

So I have another general question.

Is there any point is even using B Stick for Bayonetta now?

Before, I used to use B Stick, because it was far easier to perform DABK in many situations, such as in general, OoS etc. Is ther much point me using B Stick now the general reward is gone from DABK?

 

[Funbot28]

So I have another general question.

Is there any point is even using B Stick for Bayonetta now?

Before, I used to use B Stick, because it was far easier to perform DABK in many situations, such as in general, OoS etc. Is ther much point me using B Stick now the general reward is gone from DABK?

I like to use b-stick still to do double witch twist combos as it allows you to implement the second jump plus WT almost simeutaneously. DABK is still a useful move to use b-stick as well since Bayo's tilts aren't really that great besides her down one (even that now...)

 

[Buddhahobo]

I like to use b-stick still to do double witch twist combos as it allows you to implement the second jump plus WT almost simeutaneously. DABK is still a useful move to use b-stick as well since Bayo's tilts aren't really that great besides her down one (even that now...)

Who knows, maybe we can make use of Bidou now to better mix up approaches now that we can only commit to relatively basic combos for damage accumulation what with losing diagonal dive kick.

Without her aerial specials being able to string together, there's certainly less reason for her not being on the ground outside of edgeguarding or fishing for a bair, right?

 

[Funbot28]

Who knows, maybe we can make use of Bidou now to better mix up approaches now that we can only commit to relatively basic combos for damage accumulation what with losing diagonal dive kick.

Without her aerial specials being able to string together, there's certainly less reason for her not being on the ground outside of edgeguarding or fishing for a bair, right?

Well her aerial specials are able to combo at very low percentage somewhat with ABK and Witch Twist, Bidou would just screw up controlling her as she is already quite difficult to input already.

 

[EODM07]

Just been in the lab about an hour ago; testing to see if Bayonetta's old B&B Combo still works.

And technically... it kind of works... Just more difficult to do or impossible due to the SDI Multiplier.

I didn't know where to post this, but I feel like this is the best place to put it since we're discussing Patch 1.1.6. I'll update the annotations with anything new from you lovely people.

Also, word of note. This was performed with NO INPUT on the 2nd Controller.

 

[Aegislasher]

Honestly, I wanted Bayonetta nerfs, but even I think that they nerfed her to hard. Hopefully you guys find other ways to do well with her.

 

[Astrofallz]

Just been in the lab about an hour ago; testing to see if Bayonetta's old B&B Combo still works.

And technically... it kind of works... Just more difficult to do or impossible due to the SDI Multiplier.

I didn't know where to post this, but I feel like this is the best place to put it since we're discussing Patch 1.1.6. I'll update the annotations with anything new from you lovely people.

Also, word of note. This was performed with NO INPUT on the 2nd Controller.

Yes these combos work but they also don't work. SDI and even regular DI would make these combos irrelevant. The first few combos showed have promise because the opponent would only be able to SDI the WT which they may or may not be successful. The last combo is super suspect cause 2nd WT is stupid easy to SDI out of now. Probably even on reaction.

Of course everything I say about SDI is pure theorycrafting cause either don't have someone here to help me test it.