Shield hitlag is the same for bowser and the shielding opponent so it doesn't matter
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Isn't this all assuming that the opponent is dumb enough to stand there and shield it instead of rolling (or even just taking the hit because it's better than getting your shield broken)?Bomb 2 has basically been normalized to 13 frames of blockstun as opposed to the 7-14 it was before.
Any fringe cases of being able to spot dodge or roll after Bomb 2 are probably gone, so the shockwave might be guaranteed now. We're living the shield break dream.
With some dair conditioning, you can actually bait out the shield below quite often. Make sure to use BB low though, to give them the minimal amount of time to react.Isn't this all assuming that the opponent is dumb enough to stand there and shield it instead of rolling (or even just taking the hit because it's better than getting your shield broken)?
...Or am I missing something here?
Players shield stuff all the time. I broke DKWill's shield, irl, just last night. Doesn't matter if you're good or not. It could happen.Isn't this all assuming that the opponent is dumb enough to stand there and shield it instead of rolling (or even just taking the hit because it's better than getting your shield broken)
Ahh, understand.With some dair conditioning, you can actually bait out the shield below quite often. Make sure to use BB low though, to give them the minimal amount of time to react.
It's been working for me in online friendlies and on FG, and I've managed to land the old BB this way in tourney as well. It just wasn't worth it before because they could actually release shield between hits 1 and 2, and then take only the light landing damage. Or, if they were a heavy character with a strong shield the shield just wouldn't pop at all.
I'll definitely take it.At the end of the day, if the blockstring of Bomb 2 into Bomb 3 is real, it doesn't change too much.
However, being able to guarantee shield breaks if Bomb 2 is blocked is a rather nice thing, since it ups consistency. I've had so many players shield Bomb 2, and then be able to roll before Bomb 3 hits.
It's just nice to be properly rewarded for getting Bomb 2 shielded in the first place. (if the blockstring is real in the first place, still no idea)
Yeah, if I wanted any buff to Nair, it would've been to make the damn move happen fast enough to save us from combos...But it's still so ridiculously unsafe that it makes you wonder why they even bothered. Still, better than nothing.
Could you tell me what you mean by "worst and best case scenarios"? Jab deals 5 damage at any range. And damage is the only factor in calculating shieldstun. Move staling can change the amount of blockstun, but jab should be 3 frames safer on block until then.EDIT: Jab 1's worst case scenarios are now a bit safer on shield by around 3 frames. Best case scenarios are still roughly the same as old Jab 1. Overall, probably a minor buff to using Jab 1 in footsies.
Agreed, having a damage buff and slight landing lag reduction is not the buff to make Nair any more useful in my eyes than bizarrely situational. I have some success using it to juggle characters like D3, certain other heavies/combo food characters, but other than that, I have not found any other use for it.Yeah, if I wanted any buff to Nair, it would've been to make the damn move happen fast enough to save us from combos...
Is there an actual situation where Nair is ideal to use? It just seems like a bad option in any circumstance...
And yes, it's still stupidly punishable when used over the stage (except on full hop)...
It would definitely be useful if it could be used out of a shorthop, but I get what you're saying. I just wish Bowser wasn't the easiest character in the game to juggle.Nair does ridiculous damage. We want a tool to stop people from comboing us, but what they're giving us is akin to an aerial smash attack without the launch power. I doubt they're going to rework nair and gives us a combo breaker, I think we're just stuck with a massive damage, lingering hitbox aerial. As much as I want the anticombo, I just don't think we're going to get it, guys.
That's if all of the hitboxes connect, though, which doesn't usually happen. I find I'm lucky to get three to connect, and two is 12%, which is less than Fair (I believe).Nair does ridiculous damage. We want a tool to stop people from comboing us, but what they're giving us is akin to an aerial smash attack without the launch power.
The Dair change would be fantastic, I don't say buff because I don't know why they took it out in the first place. I already use it when I'm close to the ground to escape a few combo strings.I wish the upward momentum Bowser got for Dair would activate if he wasn't getting juggled. That way we could mash Down air to escape combo strings. But both the upward and downward momentum of the move doesn't work if Bowser is using it just after being hit.
As for Nair, maybe we ought to try using it to shark people from under the platforms. Increased shieldstun plus reduced landing lag should make this a viable option without getting punished.
Edit: One more thing. I was tipped off on day 1 of the patch that Bowser had a frame speed multiplier on an unspecified action. I've found it. Fire Shot has reduced endlag. Startup is unaffected, but Bowser stops firing faster in this update. They really want us to change our minds on this move, eh?
Shield pressure on platforms or catching airdodges in strange places.Is there an actual situation where Nair is ideal to use? It just seems like a bad option in any circumstance...
Recent datamines may or may not mean 3 more characters and 2 more stages are planned for addition. I suspect more changes to happen in the future.So is this it, then? I'm just dying with hope that there will be a little more.
Maybe, Maybe...You know... F-air's landing lag feels a bit less laggy too. Is it true?
Pretty much this, people are punishing me still for fair and I cryThey're all around the same to be honest. The worst case scenarios for frame disadvantage are slightly better, but you're still gonna get punished regardless.
Nair is particular is safer in most cases partially because of the blockstun changes, but more-so because it just lags 4 frames less on landing. But it's still so ridiculously unsafe that it makes you wonder why they even bothered. Still, better than nothing.
Good question, but it'd likely be very tough to test, since Bowser would probably rise out of it before half the hits even connected, unless he was using it on DK, D3 or himself, I mean...Is air fortress a blockstring now?
Lacks range, has crap for priority so it gets beat by most other aerials, is Bowser's weakest killing move next to jab 1, and needs to be egregiously well sweetspotted for even half of the hits to connect together, meaning most other aerials would've probably done more damage.Nair irritates me because it lacks range.