Patch 1.11

[Big Sean]

Things i've found so far:

* Nair has been buffed. Every hit does 6 damage instead of 5.
* Bowsercide is a lot more random and makes it much more likely that bowser will die first.

 

[Alvin Fai]

Not sure if it's just me, or does dash attack have less endlag?

 

[Volimutt]

Bruuuuuuuuh! I might be losing my mind, but check out the landing lag on Bowsser's Nair too. Is it just me or he get up hella faster!?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Bruuuuuuuuh! I might be losing my mind, but check out the landing lag on Bowsser's Nair too. Is it just me or he get up hella faster!?

Just finished looking at his moves. Nair landlag is significantly reduced, and individual hits have been buffed from 5% to 6%. I'm crossing my fingers for hitbox alterations, but we should have the full data soon.

 

[NeoRed]

Wow just noticed that Nair landlag thingy! WOW! Feels a lot lagless!

 

[Volimutt]

Just finished looking at his moves. Nair landlag is significantly reduced, and individual hits have been buffed from 5% to 6%. I'm crossing my fingers for hitbox alterations, but we should have the full data soon.

You know... F-air's landing lag feels a bit less laggy too. Is it true?

 

[ZorkThedork]

Does Upthrow have less knockback? I feel like I'm hitting upthrow fair at higher percents and it still registers as a combo, other than that I haven't seen anything. I was checking out bowsercides but it still looks the same.

 

[NeoRed]

You know... F-air's landing lag feels a bit less laggy too. Is it true?

Yeah! Up air feels SLIGHLY less laggy aswell? What do you think guys? Wow congrats Bowsah for all the buffs!

 

[Volimutt]

His Dodge rolls faster too.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

You know... F-air's landing lag feels a bit less laggy too. Is it true?

Absolutely not. Nair is the only move of Bowser's that has less lag.

His Dodge rolls faster too.

No, it's not.

 

[Volimutt]

Absolutely not. Nair is the only move of Bowser's that has less lag.



No, it's not.

One can dream lol, but I did confirm what Zork said is true. Bowser has a Hoo-Hah now. Up throw combos into fair or uair even at high percents now. Up throw to Up-air kills Ganon(done in training) when the combo starts at 85%. Not including possible DI

 

[onehundredhitz]

I just might have to pick up Bowser again with all these buffs

 

[ZorkThedork]

One can dream lol, but I did confirm what Zork said is true. Bowser has a Hoo-Hah now. Up throw combos into fair or uair even at high percents now. Up throw to Up-air kills Ganon(done in training) when the combo starts at 85%. Not including possible DI

I thought so, could still be placebo, but I know landing his upthrow fair was something you do before 25% but I landed it in the 40%s.

It could be training mode tho, but idk

 

[pitfall356]

Just finished downloading the update, about to start messing with it now, and these buffs are making me super ****ing hype. I'm super excited, guys!

 

[a stray cat]

Nair landing lag is the same guys. It's always been the same as fair's. Check Kuroganehammer.

 

[pitfall356]

Are you kidding? Nair hasn't been that low ever!

 

[a stray cat]

http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Bowser

Unless KuroganeHammer is up and updating it right now, it's right there for you to see.

I'd also go by Thinkaman's posts in this thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/magical-engimatic-land-1-1-1-patch-notes.419067/page-2

To copy from the other thread:

Bowser nair does 6% per hit instead of 5%. He also had a 1.2x frame speed multiplier on some random state with no other codes removed. No other changes.

I LIED. Bowser Fireball custom was buffed. First hitbox 5 -> 6%, bkb 25 -> 35, size 4 ->5, decays to weaker hitbox after 20 frames instead of 15, weaker hitbox 3.5% -> 5%, size 3.5 -> 5.0. No changes to any other Bowser anything.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Nair landing lag is the same guys. It's always been the same as fair's. Check Kuroganehammer.

It's much less landing lag than 24 now. I cannot perform a frame count for you since there are 54 other characters that demand my attention. But the difference is right before my eyes on pre and post patch versions side by side. I trust Kurogane will be able to provide a new number sometime soon.

Just now I landed a double leg hitbox of Nair on a grounded opponent, and true combod into Utilt. It's legitimately different.

 

[pitfall356]

EDIT: NEVERMIND ME I'M JUST BEING DUMB, SORRY

 

[Big Sean]

Just now I landed a double leg hitbox of Nair on a grounded opponent, and true combod into Utilt. It's legitimately different.

Stuff like that was already possible with old nair especially at low percentages. It's possible that the buff in knockback makes it more combo friendly though?

I think i'm with a stray cat here. It's really hard for me to say that nair landing lag is faster than slow fair landing lag. If it is faster its probably just a few frames.

 

[Lavani]

I'd also go by Thinkaman's posts in this thread

I'd just like to point out that the files he's looking at don't contain landing lag. It's something that has to be tested manually.

 

[a stray cat]

It's much less landing lag than 24 now. I cannot perform a frame count for you since there are 54 other characters that demand my attention. But the difference is right before my eyes on pre and post patch versions side by side. I trust Kurogane will be able to provide a new number sometime soon.

Just now I landed a double leg hitbox of Nair on a grounded opponent, and true combod into Utilt. It's legitimately different.

I went into training and counted the frames; it's the same as it's always been.

 

[MOI-ARI]

Yeah Nair is way more combo friendly xD Into utilt is most notable. But maybe into jabs, grab and Side B? p

Anyways i only counted once but New Nair has 4-5 frames shaved off from previous version.( so 20-21 end lag frames? about?) Though it seems harder to get the fourth hit now, right? i keep getting only 3 for 18%
:/

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I'd just like to point out that the files he's looking at don't contain landing lag. It's something that has to be tested manually.

I thought we fixed that issue last time with Dantarion's help. If Thinkaman sees a frame multiplier, than it probably means an aerial IASA change.

I went into training and counted the frames; it's the same as it's always been.

Then I have to question how you counted the frames to be 24 like pre-patch. Because that's not what I'm seeing.

Though it seems harder to get the fourth hit now, right? i keep getting only 3 for 18%
:/

The move rarely ever connected all four hits. That's always been an issue.

 

[Lavani]

I thought we fixed that issue last time with Dantarion's help. If Thinkaman sees a frame multiplier, than it probably means an aerial IASA change.

For an actual aerial, not landing lag.

Unless I missed something somewhere, but checking the diff for 1.1.0 Charizard his bair landing lag reduction wasn't in the data.

 

[a stray cat]

I thought we fixed that issue last time with Dantarion's help. If Thinkaman sees a frame multiplier, than it probably means an aerial IASA change.



Then I have to question how you counted the frames to be 24 like pre-patch. Because that's not what I'm seeing.



The move rarely ever connected all four hits. That's always been an issue.

I'm doing the 1/4 speed hold L to progress method. I land with nair then tap and hold shield and count the taps until shield comes out. I count 12 taps. I do this with a pro controller for the digital L to make quick taps easier for me.

 

[MOI-ARI]

I thought we fixed that issue last time with Dantarion's help. If Thinkaman sees a frame multiplier, than it probably means an aerial IASA change.



Then I have to question how you counted the frames to be 24 like pre-patch. Because that's not what I'm seeing.



The move rarely ever connected all four hits. That's always been an issue.

Oh, i seemed land them pretty frequently before. :0 Its definitely harder at a straight rising angle for me now.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

For an actual aerial, not landing lag.

Unless I missed something somewhere, but checking the diff for 1.1.0 Charizard his bair landing lag reduction wasn't in the data.

Right, I'll be at work finding the landlag changes and providing video evidence when possible. This patch is pretty tame with landlag and endlag changes, I've only found three among about a third of the cast so far. So I'm hoping the datamining is proving more fruitful.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'll have a look tomorrow.

Nair definitely feels like it has less landing lag though, and I'm pretty much never affected by placebo.

 

[MagiusNecros]

As the only guy that uses Fire Shot this is great for me.

 

[arcticfox_14]

I've been hearing some things regarding big changes to how shield stun works.

https://twitter.com/_infrom_/status/649196617187246080

I haven't done any experimentation, but might this make shield breaks after connecting with a shield using bomb's rising hit more reliable (ie, harder to just roll away from after the first hit)?

If a big engine change is real, then it may make our OoS game tougher though...

 

[S_B]

My god, have you seen the changes thread?

Sakurai is being the biggest troll ever by tweaking customs for pretty much everyone, long after EVO, after which customs kinda fell off the planet...

Also, he nerfed Luigi's Hoo-haa something FIERCE, but looks like he buffed his Dsmash to compensate (I think it's a raw deal for Weegee, personally...).

Still, sad at absolutely no decent changes for Bowser, if this is indeed everything...

I've been hearing some things regarding big changes to how shield stun works.

https://twitter.com/_infrom_/status/649196617187246080

I haven't done any experimentation, but might this make shield breaks after connecting with a shield using bomb's rising hit more reliable (ie, harder to just roll away from after the first hit)?

If a big engine change is real, then it may make our OoS game tougher though...

THAT is insane...

That looks more like a bug than an intended change, or maybe Lucario's Aura Sphere now has more frequent hitboxes?

I'm guessing the fact that Falco was trapped at the edge is the only reason he didn't get pushed out of it, though...

 

[MagiusNecros]

Well if I read the community patch notes right Fire Shot does more damage and has a bigger hitbox?

--------------------

Would the shield stun effect our OoS Fortress though?

 

[S_B]

From another thread:

"I'm testing Link's frames and every single one of his normals causes more shieldstun. With the way the numbers are changed I think this means that there was a change to the formula for shieldstun.

Jab 1: Shieldstun increased from 1 frames to 4.

Jab 2: Shieldstun increased from 1 frame to 4.

Jab 3: Shieldstun increased from 2 frames to 5.

F-tilt: Shieldstun increased from 6 frames to 10.

D-tilt: Shieldstun increased from 5 frames to 9.

U-tilt: Shieldstun increased from 4 frames to 8.

The shieldstun for the rest of his normals change in a similar pattern.

In addition to this it appears that hitlag modifiers on shield may have changed again. Link's f-smash 2 originally had 12 frames of self shieldlag and the opponent only had 10. Now both Link and the opponent have 12 frames of hitlag. His uncharged spin attack was 10 frames of opponent shieldlag, 11 frames of self shieldlag; now it's 11 frames for both. Full charge was 13 frames of opponent shieldlag, 15 frames of self shieldlag; now it's 15 frames for both.

So what does this mean? Well, not only does it mean that potentially everyone is safer on shield, it also means that some multi-hitting moves are true blockstrings now. So you block one hit you're forced to block the rest. Yoshi/Wario/Mario d-air, Mega Man b-air, Sonic/Dedede/Ryu f-tilt are some examples. Not all multi-hitting moves are like this though (e.g. Fox/Jigglypuff/Dr Mario/Kirby d-air, Super Pit Bros/Lucas n-air, Super Pit Bros/Pikachu f-air, Pikachu b-air, rapid jabs), so I'll have to look into why (most likely because even with the shieldstun increase, the gap between the hits on those attacks is just large enough).

I'm gonna check Ryu and Marth next to see what impact this has on them.

This patch was not as insignificant as some may have thought."
Courtesy of Shaya and LordWilliam1234

We now need to test how much shieldstun all of Bowser's moves cause on non-perfect shield. God willing, maybe a few aerials just became safe to use, which would be a pretty huge buff...

I thought so, could still be placebo, but I know landing his upthrow fair was something you do before 25% but I landed it in the 40%s.

It could be training mode tho, but idk

I can't get any followups out of Up throw on either a level 9 Wario OR Sheik. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but they can always act before I can hit them at any percent, and in an actual match so Up throw should be getting stale...

 

[Corgian]

The shield stun thing is huge. I'm stuck at work, but I've been dying to test. Can someone record a video of Bowser's jab followups on shield, because jab to down-b, our loyal frame trap, had a 3 frame window for them to react previously. The amount of shield stun pushes jab's shield stun way over meaning it's quite possibly a shield break combo now. I am dying at the fact I can't test right now.

 

[S_B]

How did rage and % on the opponent effect grounded bomb's first hit? Did it eventually knock the opponent too far away? Also, how much did DI effect this?

I ask because it seems like the only time I can get the hit that will miss is if the opponent is at the very end of the first hitbox, even on Duck Hunt, which turns sideways in the air after hit, thus minimizing its hurtbox.

 

[pitfall356]

I couldn't get any true combos in training mode out of uthrow.

 

[S_B]

I couldn't get any true combos in training mode out of uthrow.

TM can lie about true combos anyway in that it'll say it's a combo even when it isn't really. :\

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Hearing that they ditched Brawl's pitiful shieldstun formula is pretty huge. But from what little I'm hearing, this doesn't sound like good news for Bowser when we're trying to punish people out of shield. But now sounds like as good a time as ever to get our shieldlag/stun numbers on Bowser's moves.

For people concerned about Uthrow, there's no difference in when Bowser can act out of it. If there's any sort of knockback changes, you'd have to ask people looking at hitboxes. But the endlag on all Bowser's moves is unchanged except for that Nair landing lag. Nair's aerial IASA is also unchanged. I misread what that frame speed multiplier was referring to.

 

[Big Sean]

If someone shields jab 1, I imagine it's a lot easier getting grab/klaw followups now.