Patch 1.1 Changes

[Fuerzo]

I haven't discovered any evidence of changes, which I'll take as a good thing. Report anything you find.

 

[ElOtroMiqui]

According to Dantarion's file, it seems there are some changes in his "AttackAirB".

The thing is, I don't know what it means lol

 

[YoHeKing]

aerial neutral B or back air?

 

[Scarlet Jile]

It's definitely back-air, but the change details are totally incoherent.

 

[EverAlert]

May as well repeat this here. Aside from this there are no changes, unless the DownB stars are different (file is not yet decoded). Changes to BAir:

BAir damage is not changed.

Landing lag start changed from 11f to 6f
First two hitboxes:
- Angle changed from 365 to 366 (aerial targets)
- SDI multiplier changed from 1.0 to 0.5 (both targets)
- New value set after hitbox definitions (unk-853CD75E(0x1))

Basically, BAir sucks you in instead of doing the slow spike thing.
Question is, what does the new value do?

 

[W.A.C.]

So is Yoshi's back air better, worse, or different?

 

[Skitrel]

Have been testing with a second person.

It feels much harder to only get the first or second hit now unless you're doing it close to the ground.

Fundamentally I'd liken the change as similar to Link's change to usmash in previous updates, prior to that change certain characters could DI out of his usmash.

Basically I'd say the change can be summed up as "More likely to get all 3 hits when connecting a bair".

I'd call it a small buff.

 

[W.A.C.]

[LINK]

Would that mean it's far less likely a character like Fox will slip out of a ledge trump?

 

[noft]

So only the bair has been changed?

 

[Fuerzo]

Based on the data mining, looks like it.

 

[YoHeKing]

[LINK]

Would that mean it's far less likely a character like Fox will slip out of a ledge trump?

yeah.

 

[Skitrel]

[LINK]

Would that mean it's far less likely a character like Fox will slip out of a ledge trump?

Yes, great video example! That's exactly what the change is aiming to stop from a design point-of-view.

Have been testing, it's possible to drop a character from the veryyyy tip of the first hit, but if you connect absolutely anything firmly the consistency of hitting a third hit seems like 100%.

Our bair functions almost identically to Link's usmash in reliability now.

Don't underestimate the value of this buff. In my opinion bair is now a better option than fair off stage because of this change. It's actually great for our edge guard game, air dodging the first hit of bair guarantees that we get the third hit. It has more range than our fair and no chance of getting airdodged when we deploy it properly.

It's a good upgrade to our ability to kill opponents.

 

[W.A.C.]

And with Yoshi's amazing aerial mobility and disjointed tail, this buff should help his off stage game a lot.

 

[YoHeKing]

Yeah I may use back air more often off stage now.

 

[TailLover]

This buff makes me quite happy, Bair becoming a more viable move is great. I can't test it right now, no console, but is it possible to do similar things that fox does with his fair with bair now? As in hit the first two tail slaps then land. If so then that would be very cool

 

[Skitrel]

This buff makes me quite happy, Bair becoming a more viable move is great. I can't test it right now, no console, but is it possible to do similar things that fox does with his fair with bair now? As in hit the first two tail slaps then land. If so then that would be very cool

I was just talking to my housemate about how happy you would be with this buff.

Yes it's possible, it's actually something that was possible before but relatively hard or situational. First AND second hit of bair now cancels on stage landing and combos into dsmash. Previously only the second hit would reliably combo into dsmash.

This makes bair>dsmash a reliable bread and butter combo for Yoshi's neutral provided the enemy isn't fast enough to punish your whiffs or outranges it. I wouldn't use it against Ness or Sheik spacing with fair but it wins the neutral against someone like Rosalina or Luigi.

Here's a fun game, next time you get a Mario matchup try to ONLY use retreating bair. Mario appears to have absolutely no way to get past it...

 

[TailLover]

I was just talking to my housemate about how happy you would be with this buff.

Yes it's possible, it's actually something that was possible before but relatively hard or situational. First AND second hit of bair now cancels on stage landing and combos into dsmash. Previously only the second hit would reliably combo into dsmash.

This makes bair>dsmash a reliable bread and butter combo for Yoshi's neutral provided the enemy isn't fast enough to punish your whiffs or outranges it. I wouldn't use it against Ness or Sheik spacing with fair but it wins the neutral against someone like Rosalina or Luigi.

Here's a fun game, next time you get a Mario matchup try to ONLY use retreating bair. Mario appears to have absolutely no way to get past it...

Bair into Dsmash? Sounds like an amazing tail combo to me! And I bet Mario does have a way to get past retreting bair but it still sounds like a solid option, especially if it allows me to use more tail attacks.

 

[Skitrel]

Bair into Dsmash? Sounds like an amazing tail combo to me! And I bet Mario does have a way to get past retreting bair but it still sounds like a solid option, especially if it allows me to use more tail attacks.

He really doesn't. Sprint speed and roll speed are both too slow to catch up with retreating aerial Yoshi while his aerials all get out prioritised by bair.

It's hilarious.

 

[TailLover]

He really doesn't. Sprint speed and roll speed are both too slow to catch up with retreating aerial Yoshi while his aerials all get out prioritised by bair.

It's hilarious.

looks like it's time to wag my tail excessively! it's what I always wanted to do anyway!

 

[YoHeKing]

Floode, Fireball, up b and cape can get past yoshis retreating back air. Because wind box's or it out ranged or has invincibility frames.

 

[noft]

So now i can finally wag my tail with some confidence now. You have done well my nintendo comeradians. *squints eyes*

 

[EverAlert]

So the rest of the files are up on Dantarion's website.

Stars from Down B appear to be unchanged (though taking it at face value says otherwise; I suspect some of the arguments are mislabeled, since I noticed a lot of characters have their BKB and KBG switched with a certain command).

However, I did find this:

Changed fighter_param_vl_yoshi.bin[0]sub[04B][4] from 20 to 19
Changed fighter_param_vl_yoshi.bin[0]sub[04C][4] from 24 to 23
Changed fighter_param_vl_yoshi.bin[0]sub[04D][4] from 24 to 23

Those subaction IDs correspond to spot dodge, forward roll and back roll, respectively. Shortened invincibility?

 

[TailLover]

So the rest of the files are up on Dantarion's website.

Stars from Down B appear to be unchanged (though taking it at face value says otherwise; I suspect some of the arguments are mislabeled, since I noticed a lot of characters have their BKB and KBG switched with a certain command).

However, I did find this:




Those subaction IDs correspond to spot dodge, forward roll and back roll, respectively. Shortened invincibility?

there was a universal reduction of 1 frame on rolls and spotdodges invincibility, the patch topic already discovered this.

 

[EverAlert]

Fair enough. I hadn't followed the thread too closely since the initial data dump.

 

[YoHeKing]

I think yoshis side B thing is back. I will test this

 

[Fuerzo]

Having played two tournaments since the new patch, I can say that I LOVE the new back air. Consistently landing all three hits.

 

[YoHeKing]

It spikes better then before if you cancel it.

 

[Skitrel]

Do hitbox size changes show in data at all?

I ask because dair previously could be used against Ness' recovery(after hitting himself) and take priority/gimp Ness out of it. Today however I played a Ness and found that to not be the case any more.

Were changes made to Ness? Our hitbox? His hitbox? Or perhaps the hurtboxes? What would cause this change in priority?

It was my goto before... Now I have to respect Ness' recovery.

 

[YoHeKing]

Do hitbox size changes show in data at all?

I ask because dair previously could be used against Ness' recovery(after hitting himself) and take priority/gimp Ness out of it. Today however I played a Ness and found that to not be the case any more.

Were changes made to Ness? Our hitbox? His hitbox? Or perhaps the hurtboxes? What would cause this change in priority?

It was my goto before... Now I have to respect Ness' recovery.

Isnt ness like invincible

 

[Skitrel]

Isnt ness like invincible

No. Absolutely not. Previously dair definitely interrupted him during this. Now it does not.

I know this as I'm a jump off stage + dair Yoshi as opposed to a jump off stage and fair Yoshi. I didn't ever respect his recovery before. However today I had a rude surprise.

 

[YoHeKing]

No. Absolutely not. Previously dair definitely interrupted him during this. Now it does not.

I know this as I'm a jump off stage + dair Yoshi as opposed to a jump off stage and fair Yoshi. I didn't ever respect his recovery before. However today I had a rude surprise.

I normally just tech it. But ness' hitboxs did get bigger. idk whichh ones tho

 

[Sinister Slush]

The only change to Ness was his dair sweetspot.

 

[Skitrel]

The only other possibility is that it MAY have occurred in the patch before this then and I had simply not tried it in the Ness matchup since an earlier change? Previously fighting Ness was a case of "lol dair spike offstage murders you".

I'm tempted to reset my Wii to get footage, but we could definitely knock Ness out of it with dair previously.

 

[YoHeKing]

Maybe he used a different angle?

 

[Skitrel]

Maybe he used a different angle?

I went digging through the Ness boards looking for anything to confirm I'm not crazy. This Ness at least seems to confirm that pkt2 was changed at least once in a prior patch.

It could have come in before this patch and it's just something I've not noticed. Ness' meta has moved towards jump>fair onto stage and avoiding using pkt2 offstage as much as possible compared to earlier gameplay. So it could simply be that I never ran into the situation until now.

Still though.. I'm bummed about the matchup changing. It was funny.

 

[YoHeKing]

I went digging throuit works offline for some reason.h the Ness boards looking for anything to confirm I'm not crazy. This Ness at least seems to confirm that pkt2 was changed at least once in a prior patch.

It could have come in before this patch and it's just something I've not noticed. Ness' meta has moved towards jump>fair onto stage and avoiding using pkt2 offstage as much as possible compared to earlier gameplay. So it could simply be that I never ran into the situation until now.

Still though.. I'm bummed about the matchup changing. It was funny.

I screwed up a nesses recovery with down air. Doesnt work online but It works offline. I love offline though. I play like 10x better

 

[Skitrel]

I screwed up a nesses recovery with down air. Doesnt work online but It works offline. I love offline though. I play like 10x better

You're saying that offline Pkt2 can still be interrupted by dair?

 

[YoHeKing]

Yeah. I did it a few times. I just think that you can fast fall it.

 

[Skitrel]

Interesting. I'll give it a test later. It was definitely online that I realised it wasn't working anymore so it could be different between the two.

That would be an odd difference between online and offline play. If true I wonder why it occurs.

 

[YoHeKing]

The other day my egg was canceling out diddys peanuts but the egg wasnt touching them yet or exploding at all. I also noticed that yoshi cancels out the sling shot of villagers much easier offline.