Patch 1.1.5

[EvilPinkamina]

Back throw has always combo'd into Flare Blitz on training mode. DI and human opponents can nullify this.

 

[pacha]

Can someone check on the invincibility frames of forward smash or let me know how to test this?

I know they're supposed to be 22-25 but I was just watching a match where my Charizard amiibo was facing a lvl 9 Ike. In the last 30 seconds of the match I watched him F-smash and get countered by Ike 3 times. None of the counters hit and it looks like it was invincibility every time and not proximity. It may just be coincidence but I wonder if they may have buffed that.

 

[Jmacz]

So I'm doing some testing with DI in training mode to see what we can get out of our D-Throw now at different percents. I'm gunna start with Mairo for now, and eventually move my way down. All of these numbers may be short by a little because I'm not that good, and then numbers when double jumps are needed may be off by a bit to. Also I don't see the point in testing DI In, Down or In and Down because that will just make the combo easier to register and most competent players won't DI that way. Just putting the No DI as a base number.

If you're wondering how I'm testing this, I'm going into training mode with a separate controller. For DI Away I grab them with the other controller on my lap, press to the left/right and then try to combo. For DI Up and DI Up and Away I use a rubber band. The DI Up is easy, for Up and Away I have to find a sweet spot where it's Up and Away but not making them walk. Then after I grab them I move it so it's going more away and then try. I know they were going Up and Away if they spawn and start running offstage.

Mario:

D-Throw to F-Air: For all of these I feel like someone better than I may be able to connect with these another 5% or so later as I feel I'm just a few frames off from making it register.

D-Throw to F-Air/No DI: 0-106% (After 70% need to double jump)
D-Throw to F-Air/DI Away: 0-101% (After 75% need to double jump)
D-Throw to F-Air/DI Up: 0-101% (After 75% need to double jump)
D-Throw to F-Air/DI Up and Away : 0-95% (Double jump after 70ish% for both)


Kills with lightning bolt after grab at the ledge at 77% with No DI.

D-Throw to U-Air: I'm really really bad at this one, I couldn't get it to connect at all with DI Up and Away but I feel like once again I just can't get the timing right. You have to dash the right amount and then full hop while buffering the U-Air, so I keep either dashing to short/long or jump canceling and up smashing.

D-Throw to U-Air/No DI: 0-100%
D-Throw to U-Air/DI Away: Doesn't work.
D-Throw to U-Air/DI Up: 0-105%
D-Throw to U-Air/DI Up and Away: Can't get to register.

Kills with lighting bolt at 89% with No DI.

D-Throw to N-Air:

D-Throw to N-Air/No DI: 0-83%
D-Throw to N-Air/DI Away: Doesn't work
D-Throw to N-Air/DI Up: 0-83%
D-Throw to N-air/DI Up and Away: Doesn't work


Luigi:

D-Throw to F-Air: Having a lot more trouble on the DI Away and Up and Away compared to Mario. Someone else may be able to push it to the mid 90's. I'll give it another go tomorrow as well. Also I am to lazy to do the double jump numbers right now, sorry.

D-Throw to F-Air/No DI: 0-105%
D-Throw to F-Air/DI Away 0-85% (Having Trouble with this one, almost said not possible. Finally got it to register at 85% in 1/2 speed)
D-Throw to F-Air/DI Up: 0-113%
D-Throw to F-Air/Up and Away: 0-85% (Also having trouble with this one, these were the reasons I didn't do more.

Lighting Bolt after grab at ledge at 78% with no DI.

D-Throw to U-Air: Again having trouble when I have to dash, double jump, and buffer an aerial out of the double jump. The Up and Away DI may be possible, I just need more practice at this which is one of the reasons I'm doing this.

D-Throw to U-Air/No DI: Incomplete
D-Throw to U-Air/DI Away: Not Possible
D-Throw to U-Air/DI Up: 0-104%
D-Throw to U-Air/DI Up and Away: Can't hit/not possible

Kills with lightning bolt after grab at 83% with no DI.

Edit: This pretty much makes F-Throw useless as it's only other use prior to this was to get people offstage after a grab at the ledge because it did more damage than D-Throw and at later percents we couldn't confirm out of it. Now it seems we have a kill confirm off D-Throw at the ledge at around 80%. Even earlier against light characters with Rage.

Edit2: After I finish Luigi I'm going to do Marth, Falco, and Lucario only because those are the characters my friend plays so I want to try and use these against him. I should probably considering making a thread for this, maybe when I add a few more characters.

 

[Steeler]

Can someone check on the invincibility frames of forward smash or let me know how to test this?

I know they're supposed to be 22-25 but I was just watching a match where my Charizard amiibo was facing a lvl 9 Ike. In the last 30 seconds of the match I watched him F-smash and get countered by Ike 3 times. None of the counters hit and it looks like it was invincibility every time and not proximity. It may just be coincidence but I wonder if they may have buffed that.

That happens homey, you are slowed/frozen in hitlag while he counters you, slowed so much that you haven't moved past the frame 25 part of the move, thus you still have your invincibility

Jmacz bro you are doing the Lizardgod's work there. Any dashing involved with dthrow to fair? If not, dthrow at the ledge could legit be a kill...

Also dthrow to fly is probably worth investigating

 

[Jmacz]

That happens homey, you are slowed/frozen in hitlag while he counters you, slowed so much that you haven't moved past the frame 25 part of the move, thus you still have your invincibility

Jmacz bro you are doing the Lizardgod's work there. Any dashing involved with dthrow to fair? If not, dthrow at the ledge could legit be a kill...

Also dthrow to fly is probably worth investigating

You do have to dash, but for some reason I could get F-Air to register with DI Down and away at the ledge at 95% but only 90% at mid stage. I think my timing may be a bit off, but we can at least get a confirm to the numbers I'm posting. Every DI you have do act a little different. With Up you have to pretty much jump right away, with away you have to dash a little bit. And DI Up and Away is really weird, it makes a HUGE difference if it's slightly more away than up or vice versa. When they DI Up and Away, but more Away than up (if that makes any sense) the timing on when you need to jump get's really tricky. And I about gave up at 85% before finally getting it to connect at 90% and then later at 95% on the ledge and those were both at 2/3rd speed. I would say D-Throw to F-Air is certainly a kill confirm at the ledge against Mario. Grabbing him at the ledge (and I mean as close to falling off as you can get) you get a lighting bolt at 77% which means at max Mario could probably survive to 85ish with perfect DI and we can combo into F-Air up to 95% maybe higher. Obviously Rage is going to change this.

And I literally was just testing D-Throw to Fly as well and still don't think it works. I tested it with No DI, DI up and then DI Down and In and I couldn't get it to register. But this is all just on Mario so it still may work on other characters because it seems pretty close.

Edit: I think the reason I was able to get F-Air to connect at 95% with DI Up and Away easier at the ledge was because I grabbed Mario at the perfect distance giving myself just enough room for the dash you need to do. I just got it to register two more times, you have to dash quickly and then quickly double jump and buffer the F-Air after the second jump. The timing is really tricky, I myself tend to not get the double jump input in time.

 

[Astro986]

You do have to dash, but for some reason I could get F-Air to register with DI Down and away at the ledge at 95% but only 90% at mid stage. I think my timing may be a bit off, but we can at least get a confirm to the numbers I'm posting. Every DI you have do act a little different. With Up you have to pretty much jump right away, with away you have to dash a little bit. And DI Up and Away is really weird, it makes a HUGE difference if it's slightly more away than up or vice versa. When they DI Up and Away, but more Away than up (if that makes any sense) the timing on when you need to jump get's really tricky. And I about gave up at 85% before finally getting it to connect at 90% and then later at 95% on the ledge and those were both at 2/3rd speed. I would say D-Throw to F-Air is certainly a kill confirm at the ledge against Mario. Grabbing him at the ledge (and I mean as close to falling off as you can get) you get a lighting bolt at 77% which means at max Mario could probably survive to 85ish with perfect DI and we can combo into F-Air up to 95% maybe higher. Obviously Rage is going to change this.

And I literally was just testing D-Throw to Fly as well and still don't think it works. I tested it with No DI, DI up and then DI Down and In and I couldn't get it to register. But this is all just on Mario so it still may work on other characters because it seems pretty close.

Edit: I think the reason I was able to get F-Air to connect at 95% with DI Up and Away easier at the ledge was because I grabbed Mario at the perfect distance giving myself just enough room for the dash you need to do. I just got it to register two more times, you have to dash quickly and then quickly double jump and buffer the F-Air after the second jump. The timing is really tricky, I myself tend to not get the double jump input in time.

What's Charizard's F-Air like in this new patch? I haven't downloaded it yet due to school.

 

[/Lucina]

Not long after I have suddenly begun to pick up Charizard and finally appreciate him for how fun he is, he gets some awesome buffs. Time to rack up even more wins!

One big problem for me was the ending lag on his back air in particular, and now that's been addressed to some degree; this is great.

 

[ZephyrZ]

What's Charizard's F-Air like in this new patch? I haven't downloaded it yet due to school.

It's had a large decrease in landing lag, which on top of Zard's new air speed makes it a lot safer than it used to be. It's still not entirely safe, but the difference is definitely noticeable.

I know I'll be using that move more.

 

[Jmacz]

It's had a large decrease in landing lag, which on top of Zard's new air speed makes it a lot safer than it used to be. It's still not entirely safe, but the difference is definitely noticeable.

I know I'll be using that move more.

I saw a post in a reddit thread that it's -6 on shield which actually makes it safe on shield now. Not sure how accurate that is.

 

[arbustopachon]

That's accurate but only for shield drop. if they jump or do an oos it's around -13.
Same with bair.

 

[meowmere]

I just recently got into playing Charizard, so I don't know if it was always this way, but his bair is ridiculous! You can kill with it 50% near the ledge. I also killed a ZSS from the other side of the stage at about 75-80%.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I just recently got into playing Charizard, so I don't know if it was always this way, but his bair is ridiculous! You can kill with it 50% near the ledge. I also killed a ZSS from the other side of the stage at about 75-80%.

Bair has always hit like a truck. It was just slow as a smash attack before. Now it's super fast for how hard it hits.

 

[Skurry]

Hey I couldn't find any other sources for these combos I found in training mode yesterday so I figured I'd post a replay of them I made.

It seems that Charizard's falling up air can combo into certain moves including up smash, up tilt, fair and nair. Heres the video if you want to see it in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL1TDPmvqVU

Try them out yourself in training mode and let me know if they work. I'm pretty confident that they are true combos.

 

[Steeler]

@Bloodcross had some uair combos a while back i think, those two extra frames are gonna make it a lot more consistent now

Too bad the hitbox on that move is ass, you'll never hit half the grounded characters in the game

 

[Skurry]

@Bloodcross had some uair combos a while back i think, those two extra frames are gonna make it a lot more consistent now

Too bad the hitbox on that move is ***, you'll never hit half the grounded characters in the game

Yeah, I was trying to hit kirby with it, it was very difficult. Could still be kinda useful to get some extra percent for certain matchups.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It's hard to hit because you're starting a combo with one of his kill moves.

 

[Charey]

I don't think it's a true combo but you can chain two fairs off stage at around 40-60% now, which kills.

 

[Steeler]

It's hard to hit because you're starting a combo with one of his kill moves.

Yes it's a KO move but I don't think that excuses it when 1. I have killed with literally every move in tourney except getup attack and maybe dash attack 2. The move has always been tied for lowest landing lag with nair, suggesting devs intended it to be one of Zard's best aerials when landing 3. The space it covers is just not good, especially in front of Zard, not to mention below him which is the issue in this instance.

 

[Jmacz]

So our D-Throw combo's are definitely going to vary depending on the character you're up against. Marth is SOOOO much easier to combo on, and I'm already getting F-Air to register on him up to 115% with no DI when Mario and Luigi got out 10-20% earlier. I'm just gunna post a thread once I'm done with the next few characters.

Edit: Seem another buff was discovered.

Item toss strength 1.198 -> 1.208

Oh boy.

Source: http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-5-patch-notes.433162/page-2#post-21007838

 

[Bowserboy3]

I saw a rumor floating about briefly that Charizards jumpsquat was reduced by 1 frame.

Is this true? Has anyone tested this and confirmed/debunked it?

 

[Astro986]

It's had a large decrease in landing lag, which on top of Zard's new air speed makes it a lot safer than it used to be. It's still not entirely safe, but the difference is definitely noticeable.

I know I'll be using that move more.

That's good to know. How about back air?

 

[arbustopachon]

I saw a rumor floating about briefly that Charizards jumpsquat was reduced by 1 frame.

Is this true? Has anyone tested this and confirmed/debunked it?

It is not true. It still is 7. It shows like 6 on his data because it is slowed down later by a modifier.

That's good to know. How about back air?

It also got 9 frames of landing lag shaved off, so now it is considarably safer. It is roughly as safe as Fair on shield but it still is very unsafe if whiffed.

Fun fact of the day: bair kills 5% earlier at the ledge than bowser's bair.

 

[Steeler]

Bair is an incredible trump card, why would you ever go for Flare Blitz when this move exists. Fish for this move and people will be scared of you.

 

[RadianB]

The increased sweet spot size is great too, it hits more reliably near Charizard's back during the end frames of the move.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I saw a rumor floating about briefly that Charizards jumpsquat was reduced by 1 frame.

Is this true? Has anyone tested this and confirmed/debunked it?

It's not true.

Bair is an incredible trump card, why would you ever go for Flare Blitz when this move exists. Fish for this move and people will be scared of you.

Super armor if you know they will use a move or action that is perfect for it.

 

[HakuryuVision]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmh, just had a winning streak in online FG.
The Flareblitz buffs feel better than expected ~<3

 

[Steeler]

Bair is such a huge buff, if you learn to space it you can throw this move out for free in neutral. It's crazy. Catch ledge options with it and kill people at 60.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Bair is such a huge buff, if you learn to space it you can throw this move out for free in neutral. It's crazy. Catch ledge options with it and kill people at 60.

To further emphasis it.

I explore every person who uses Charizard to learn to use Bair better.

It might legit be his best move now.

 

[LRodC]

I have to concur. Back air for Charizard is extremely good now. It caught me off guard a lot today when I fought one. It's something you legitimately have to respect if you go against him. Forward air is much better now too.

 

[/Lucina]

Back air on Charizard might be one of the deadliest in the cast both in power and execution at this point.

 

[RadianB]

Yeah, just been playing and I'm shocked at how good it is. it's like a better version of Knee of Justice.

 

[DarkStar64]

This is probably just placebo, but has anyone noticed Fly's hitboxes connecting better than before? It seems like characters don't fall out of the move like before the patch.

 

[Steeler]

Nothing changed with Fly, I've already had it whiff a few times. Probably the last real thing that I think should change with Zard for me to be 100% satisfied.

Anyway, I was over at a weekly streamed meetup when the patch went down. And this is the truly glorious moment I first experienced the landing lag buffs (headphone user warning...): https://secure.twitch.tv/realdfunk/v/54673567?t=04h12m54s

 

[Alex Night]

Nothing changed with Fly, I've already had it whiff a few times. Probably the last real thing that I think should change with Zard for me to be 100% satisfied.

Anyway, I was over at a weekly streamed meetup when the patch went down. And this is the truly glorious moment I first experienced the landing lag buffs (headphone user warning...): https://secure.twitch.tv/realdfunk/v/54673567?t=04h12m54s

Reminds me of Mario Party 5 Sweet Dream. xD