Patch 1.1.1

[Afro Smash]

In my opinion, a lot of Samus' misconceptions come from three main things:

1- The awkwardness of her move-set with unorthodox executions make most players just overlook her potential due to it not immediately meshing with their playstyles and habits.

2- The punishing aspects of her game-plan when it comes to generally strong options such as rolling and grabbing compared to the rest of the cast (causing a Samus player to circumvent these short-comings with more advanced techniques like SHAD'ing).

and finally:

3-Due to the lackluster tournament results that she has been having.

Honestly compared to a lot if not all other low tiers Samus has had good tournament placings

 

[DungeonMaster]

Honestly compared to a lot if not all other low tiers Samus has had good tournament placings

By defintion then she is not low tier.

That discussion aside however I attribute this fact to:
1/ extremely dedicated persistant fanbase
2/ metagame advanced quickly with a lot of open sharing particularly on this forum

We do not go gentle into that good night.

 

[Jandlebars]

So, it turns out that learning to work on Perfect Pivots wasn't so hard after all.
Haven't gotten it down yet completely, but working on it every now and then over the course of even a few days has borne substantial improvement.

It'll definitely be nice to land PP U-Tilts, Charge Shots, grabs and shields consistently. Really, any skill or tactic that a Samus main could add to their repertoire is a boon, considering her current position.


On a separate note, it's quite difficult getting out of the mentality of "spacing" with F-Tilt. I imagine you guys grew out of it a long time ago, but spacing with U-Tilt instead feels so alien. Typically, it's been one of those moves used to stuff aerial approaches, but now even N-Air is pretty decent for that, too.

 

[-_ellipsis_-]

Edit : lol definitely the wrong thread

 

[E.Lopez]

-_ellipsis_- , is this in the right thread?

 

[Nayol]

______________________WALL OF TEXT______________________________

The first time i picked up smash 3ds, i first character i went to training mode to was Samus. Honestly, i didn't know anything about competitive smash in the slightest and i've been picking up the terminology for the last year or so, so when i first used her i thought, "Wow, her charge shot actually kills now! maybe she's pretty good compared to brawl".

I wasn't wrong, but i wasn't exactly right about her either. Her missiles felt slower to me at first, since i didn't know about auto-cancelling missiles, but i just ignored those issues and just played the character for what she was.

I've been off and on her since then, trying out a few characters and trying to find my, "main". Everytime i lost a match, i always wondered whether it was the character or me. I admit im not the best smash player, and i'm the kind of greedy guy that'll go of stage JUST to get that Toon link meteor smash, (FFA's with family, of course). I've tried Toon link, Greninja, Pikachu, Ness, Lucas, i even went to the depths of Sheik to find a main. I even re started my amiibo to learn things from them that i wouldn't normally think of, (no samus amiibo unfortunately ).

Even so, i've been lurking around the Samus forums trying to learn new things. I admit, if Samus were the top tier threat that most people in this board would wish for, i don't think i would have tried THAT many character and read individual guides and tried my own techniques to improve my gameplay. I've been liking Greninja and Toon link, two characters that tier wise people would agree are better than Samus, but their forum's aren't as busting as this one.

You guys are some of the most loyal players i have ever seen, sticking with a so called, "low-tier," character, finding her pros and cons, looking for any situation to prove her worth amongst the cast. It takes a certain dedication for a fanbase to single-handedly bring a fighting game to a competitive scene without the support of the company, but it takes a different kind of dedication to stick with a character just because you love her THAT much, regardless of what other people say.
______________________END_________________

Long story short, i plan on being on this site more often, even though grade 12 has me by the throat, (scholarships and bursaries). Samus is a character that at first i never knew and never really cared for, but after playing Fusion and learning her history, I feel honoured to be Spamus main. This patch is really gonna help her on the long run, and i've been getting more shield breaks than usual, which is always a good thing

 

[Hark17ball]

______________________WALL OF TEXT______________________________

The first time i picked up smash 3ds, i first character i went to training mode to was Samus. Honestly, i didn't know anything about competitive smash in the slightest and i've been picking up the terminology for the last year or so, so when i first used her i thought, "Wow, her charge shot actually kills now! maybe she's pretty good compared to brawl".

I wasn't wrong, but i wasn't exactly right about her either. Her missiles felt slower to me at first, since i didn't know about auto-cancelling missiles, but i just ignored those issues and just played the character for what she was.

I've been off and on her since then, trying out a few characters and trying to find my, "main". Everytime i lost a match, i always wondered whether it was the character or me. I admit im not the best smash player, and i'm the kind of greedy guy that'll go of stage JUST to get that Toon link meteor smash, (FFA's with family, of course). I've tried Toon link, Greninja, Pikachu, Ness, Lucas, i even went to the depths of Sheik to find a main. I even re started my amiibo to learn things from them that i wouldn't normally think of, (no samus amiibo unfortunately ).

Even so, i've been lurking around the Samus forums trying to learn new things. I admit, if Samus were the top tier threat that most people in this board would wish for, i don't think i would have tried THAT many character and read individual guides and tried my own techniques to improve my gameplay. I've been liking Greninja and Toon link, two characters that tier wise people would agree are better than Samus, but their forum's aren't as busting as this one.

You guys are some of the most loyal players i have ever seen, sticking with a so called, "low-tier," character, finding her pros and cons, looking for any situation to prove her worth amongst the cast. It takes a certain dedication for a fanbase to single-handedly bring a fighting game to a competitive scene without the support of the company, but it takes a different kind of dedication to stick with a character just because you love her THAT much, regardless of what other people say.
______________________END_________________

Long story short, i plan on being on this site more often, even though grade 12 has me by the throat, (scholarships and bursaries). Samus is a character that at first i never knew and never really cared for, but after playing Fusion and learning her history, I feel honoured to be Spamus main. This patch is really gonna help her on the long run, and i've been getting more shield breaks than usual, which is always a good thing

Welcome to the Team.

 

[JAZZ_]

Long story short, i plan on being on this site more often, even though grade 12 has me by the throat, (scholarships and bursaries). Samus is a character that at first i never knew and never really cared for, but after playing Fusion and learning her history, I feel honoured to be Spamus main. This patch is really gonna help her on the long run, and i've been getting more shield breaks than usual, which is always a good thing

I think we all appreciate your kind words toward our community of Samus mains. But I have one thing I cant help but correct you on. We as Samus mains Cant Spam. Zamus may be able to mindlessly spam patterns but Power suit Samus is far from Spamus. If you watch the rest of these guys in the Samus community play you'll see extremely talented and diverse gameplay. The zero suits may be Spamus', but I dont think Samus ever can be and expect to win anything. So dont call yourself a "Spamus" Because thats not us, Were hunters, not Spammers. Welcome to the community : )

 

[Vyrnx]

Does Samus' ftilt have the best range of any tilt in the game? I've been doing testing with it and the only move that seemed close (~~tied) was Dedede's ftilt. I know that sounds crazy but because of the way Samus leans forward, it is about as long as Dedede's hammer twirl thing. I haven't done super extensive testing though so if anyone knows anything about this, do tell. I hadn't paid any attention to this move before because of the stupid sourspot, but I'm looking into trying to use it more. I also know for sure that it outranges many of the long range ftilts that first came to mind--DK, Ganon, Bowser, Mac, Zard, Ike, Marth.

 

[JAZZ_]

Does Samus' ftilt have the best range of any tilt in the game? I've been doing testing with it and the only move that seemed close (~~tied) was Dedede's ftilt. I know that sounds crazy but because of the way Samus leans forward, it is about as long as Dedede's hammer twirl thing. I haven't done super extensive testing though so if anyone knows anything about this, do tell. I hadn't paid any attention to this move before because of the stupid sourspot, but I'm looking into trying to use it more.

It has decent range but Samus' wonky hurtbox problem make it less of an advantage. but it does provide a decent poke if your opponent isnt throwing out a attack with any priority or protective hurtbox

 

[Wald0]

Does Samus' ftilt have the best range of any tilt in the game? I've been doing testing with it and the only move that seemed close (~~tied) was Dedede's ftilt. I know that sounds crazy but because of the way Samus leans forward, it is about as long as Dedede's hammer twirl thing. I haven't done super extensive testing though so if anyone knows anything about this, do tell. I hadn't paid any attention to this move before because of the stupid sourspot, but I'm looking into trying to use it more. I also know for sure that it outranges many of the long range ftilts that first came to mind--DK, Ganon, Bowser, Mac, Zard, Ike, Marth.

It does have good range but because of the wonkiness of it it's kind of hard to use. PP U-tilt is a bit better I believe

 

[Wald0]

Are there any threads for Samus item combos? I've been testing with items and found some sick stuff (mostly with gyro) and was wondering if it's pointless to post my findings or not

 

[Vyrnx]

It has decent range but Samus' wonky hurtbox problem make it less of an advantage. but it does provide a decent poke if your opponent isnt throwing out a attack with any priority or protective hurtbox

Yeah, I just wanted to see what it's range is like compared to other tilts out there. If it is tied for longest tilt, which I think it actually is, it will have uses despite the crazy hurtbox. Like DK, for instance, has his midrange game as a selling point even though his moves have dumb hurtboxes like Samus, and we outrange him.

Also, is Samus' jab combo "good" at high percents when it actually links? With it's startup time, range, and tech chase setup it seems really safe and useful past 80%ish. It breaks out of some ground combos that I've only ever gotten out of with Yoshi's jab in the past.

 

[Nayol]

I think we all appreciate your kind words toward our community of Samus mains. But I have one thing I cant help but correct you on. We as Samus mains Cant Spam. Zamus may be able to mindlessly spam patterns but Power suit Samus is far from Spamus. If you watch the rest of these guys in the Samus community play you'll see extremely talented and diverse gameplay. The zero suits may be Spamus', but I dont think Samus ever can be and expect to win anything. So dont call yourself a "Spamus" Because thats not us, Were hunters, not Spammers. Welcome to the community : )

I understand, personally I don't use missiles as often as I did before. I feel welcomed and I hope to work with you guys in the future.

 

[Nayol]

Does Samus' ftilt have the best range of any tilt in the game? I've been doing testing with it and the only move that seemed close (~~tied) was Dedede's ftilt. I know that sounds crazy but because of the way Samus leans forward, it is about as long as Dedede's hammer twirl thing. I haven't done super extensive testing though so if anyone knows anything about this, do tell. I hadn't paid any attention to this move before because of the stupid sourspot, but I'm looking into trying to use it more. I also know for sure that it outranges many of the long range ftilts that first came to mind--DK, Ganon, Bowser, Mac, Zard, Ike, Marth.

What about Greninja's ftilt?

 

[Nayol]

Are there any threads for Samus item combos? I've been testing with items and found some sick stuff (mostly with gyro) and was wondering if it's pointless to post my findings or not

I think it would be useful, afterall learning the match up also has to do with how one can take advantage of his opponent, and with gyros in mind, I don't think Samus has a very strong match up against ROB

 

[Boney]

Is it me or the new screwattack hitboxes makes it so it's harder for the opponent to di towards the sides before the final hit, so it ends up launching a lot more vertical than before?

Before opponents were sent in 30 degree angles a lot. Now it can still happen especially depending on how you catch them but it seems it happens less. Seems it a lot more significant than the little knockback buff it received for killing potential.

 

[DungeonMaster]

On a separate note, it's quite difficult getting out of the mentality of "spacing" with F-Tilt. I imagine you guys grew out of it a long time ago, but spacing with U-Tilt instead feels so alien. Typically, it's been one of those moves used to stuff aerial approaches, but now even N-Air is pretty decent for that, too.

This may sound like a bit silly of a suggestion but go complete all star on hard if you haven't already. If you use f-tilt, you're going to lose horribly. Then go up-tilt -> up-air. It's almost trivial with up-tilt. All star gives you a regular stream of targets walking into range / just outside.
In 1v1 it's a slow move, but the cooldown is just as fast (1 frame faster in fact). So you have to throw it out in anticipation quite a bit, but if you're wrong, spot-dodge and SHAD are your totally safe reply.

Does Samus' ftilt have the best range of any tilt in the game?

Yes. Definitely. Swords are not even close

Also, is Samus' jab combo "good" at high percents when it actually links? With it's startup time, range, and tech chase setup it seems really safe and useful past 80%ish. It breaks out of some ground combos that I've only ever gotten out of with Yoshi's jab in the past.

Just about everyone hates the jab but my personal feeling is it's actually a decent move. We're a super heavy weight and have a 3 frame jab. Basically as soon as you land one of the larger combos it comes online. The tech chases from jab2 on fast fallers I use literally all the time.
11 damage from a 3 frame move, yeah there's better out there, but push come to shove I would much prefer just the pre and post hurtbox extension of moves to be removed, like the way nair was fixed rather then touching jab. I'm REALLY hoping we get a d-air hitbox increase next patch and have the animations and hitbox match. Yes that would give Samus the best dair in the game and that would be a good thing....

 

[Vyrnx]

What about Greninja's ftilt?

I thought it would be close but Greninja's ftilt's range isn't nearly as good as what I had remembered, maybe half of Samus' ftilt's range.

Just about everyone hates the jab but my personal feeling is it's actually a decent move. We're a super heavy weight and have a 3 frame jab. Basically as soon as you land one of the larger combos it comes online. The tech chases from jab2 on fast fallers I use literally all the time.
11 damage from a 3 frame move, yeah there's better out there, but push come to shove I would much prefer just the pre and post hurtbox extension of moves to be removed, like the way nair was fixed rather then touching jab. I'm REALLY hoping we get a d-air hitbox increase next patch and have the animations and hitbox match. Yes that would give Samus the best dair in the game and that would be a good thing....

Yeah, from a design perspective jab not connecting makes sense if they don't want Samus to be able to fight up close (I mean, obviously... But). If it did connect, it would have the best range of any frame 3 jab and do 11 damage, which would easily make it one of the best jabs in the game, mostly because of the range (plus it would set up tech chases on top of that...). Basically Samus would be really, really strong at CQC. Yoshi's jab may be a frame slower than the Marios, Luigi, Falco, and Ryu, but it's range, damage, and followups make it the best. So we would have Yoshi's jab with more damage, slightly more endlag, and really dangerous tech chase follow ups. The other way to get around this besides not giving Samus a true jab combo would be to give Samus a jab like Ganon or Zelda, but tbh I would take our current jab over a frame 7+ jab any day.

 

[Scream]

Yeah, from a design perspective jab not connecting makes sense if they don't want Samus to be able to fight up close (I mean, obviously... But). If it did connect, it would have the best range of any frame 3 jab and do 11 damage, which would easily make it one of the best jabs in the game, mostly because of the range (plus it would set up tech chases on top of that...). Basically Samus would be really, really strong at CQC. Yoshi's jab may be a frame slower than the Marios, Luigi, Falco, and Ryu, but it's range, damage, and followups make it the best. So we would have Yoshi's jab with more damage, slightly more endlag, and really dangerous tech chase follow ups. The other way to get around this besides not giving Samus a true jab combo would be to give Samus a jab like Ganon or Zelda, but tbh I would take our current jab over a frame 7+ jab any day.

No it would most definitly not.
I am completely fine with not comboing, BUT the hitbox for hitting targets close to the ground and/or tiny targets is horrible.
It whiffs on so many things. This alone disqualifies it from being the best jab in the game even with everything fixed.
Also have a look at Ikes Jab. Only one frame slower with a gigantic hitbox, combos from zero and does 11 damage as well.
You can also easily combo/string it into grabs and because of its great frametrap capabilites is very safe on shield/risky and reaction intesive to punish.
Dont forget about the hurtbox extension as well. As with many normals of Samus she extends her Hurtbx over her hitbox and combined with the relatively high FAF for a Jab1 this is a big drawback.
If your opponent were to read your jab pattern, outspacing you with an fsmash or similar is very easy to execute on Samus.

Our jab is good. But even with fixes nowhere near the top jabs.

 

[Afro Smash]

Should also be safe on hit at every percent...

 

[Nayol]

I would like it if they gave samus the falco treatment and made her utilt un-techable and allow it to spike like captain falcons. If our utilt had that, then that would guarantee follow ups at mid range like utilt>CS prominently.

I wouldn't mind if they made it a tad weaker on the shieldbreaking side, but that's just me.

 

[Vyrnx]

Should also be safe on hit at every percent...

Is jab 2 unsafe on hit at low percents? I actually did not know that, I guess I don't jab at low percents.

Also when I say making Samus' jab combo I mean making it autolink, or whatever the term is, assuming that if they made it combo they would fix jab 1 so that at high percents instead of pushing the opponent out of jab 2 range it would force them to get hit. Even with wonky hurtboxes and a hitbox that misses small opponents, a frame 3 jab with that range would get out of a lot of stuff in cqc, deal 11 damage, and set up tech chases, which for a heavyweight who isn't supposed to be able to fight cqc would be way too good. If not a top 10 jab, then a top 15-20 jab (which, from a 'jab tier list' perspective, would be like tier 2 below the top jabs). If Samus' jab is changed in a future patch to combo, they would change the frame data, damage, make it more unsafe, or something, and I don't see any of those things as likely changes, especially jab ever being patched.

Anyway, what I was asking was since jab does combo at high percents, is it considered a good jab at high percents, but I sidetracked the conversation

 

[MOM Samus]

Samus needs a damage buff. Just a slight increase to all attacks. Been under the impression that more damage means more shield stun. Samus is powerful, but that doesn't really help her with shield stun.

Uncharged, un-angled Falcon Side Smash does 19, whereas Samus's fully charged, up angled does 21 damage, and that's IF you get the sweetspot (and really there's only a few who can get hit by that at ground level with that extremely small hitbox). Her Smash Attacks, all of them, are just laughably weak. Down Smash especially.

Also when I say making Samus' jab combo I mean making it autolink, or whatever the term is, assuming that if they made it combo they would fix jab 1 so that at high percents instead of pushing the opponent out of jab 2 range it would force them to get hit.

I don't agree 100%. Maybe like 60% agreed. Reason is that her Jab can push people off the stage, and I have a crap ton of videos where I Jab and then go offstage for a spike. It makes them pratfall, so you can usually follow up with a spike. Just have Jab 2 come out faster, which would mean Jab 1's endlag is reduced.

 

[Hapajin]

Could someone elaborate on the Screw Attack changes for me? Has it been buffed or nerfed, or does it not really matter?

 

[Wald0]

Could someone elaborate on the Screw Attack changes for me? Has it been buffed or nerfed, or does it not really matter?

Buffed. Screw attack looping hits 2-4 have more weight knockback 150/120 → 178/140. Screw Attack looping hits angle has been altered (100 → 96). All for the better.

 

[Varia31]

Guys, I just downloaded another update, putting the game version at 1.1.2. Anything new? I'm guessing there are no other changes. According to the in-game notice all it was for was fixing a glitch with Diddy Kong. I'm pretty sure that nothing else has been snuck in, but I thought I'd check with you all. Please forgive me if this post is irrelevant...

 

[Scream]

Guys, I just downloaded another update, putting the game version at 1.1.2. Anything new? I'm guessing there are no other changes. According to the in-game notice all it was for was fixing a glitch with Diddy Kong. I'm pretty sure that nothing else has been snuck in, but I thought I'd check with you all. Please forgive me if this post is irrelevant...

The Diddy Grab glitch was fixed. Nothing else.

 

[DungeonMaster]

AND all my replays are broken AGAIN.
Had some damn nice zero-deaths in there. I'm having a great day. Sigh...

 

[Scream]

AND all my replays are broken AGAIN.
Had some damn nice zero-deaths in there. I'm having a great day. Sigh...

At least i "discovered" the Nair buff lets us SH nair a LOT more of the cast now. Updated Table comming soon.
so good

 

[DungeonMaster]

Agreed, I played only 3 players in all of 4 hours last evening who were clearly testing matchups vs. a Samus main, practically inciting me to test the new nair to its fullest.
Vs ZSS It catches tether recovery really well, you do that close-to-the-stage edge fall technique that I'm not remembering the lingo for (and really should be in the compendium) and it's brilliant.
Threatens flip jump, threatens the tether, threatens the ledge snap 2 frame. Turned into ZSS using up-B mixups.
SH nair OOS I'm still getting used to, just doesn't register in my brain yet, curious to see the table.

 

[Scream]

OFFTOPIC: I'll be attending the to date biggest german Tournament(The best region in europe) this weekend. Repping the Bae only <3
Wish me luck!

 

[Shog]

OFFTOPIC: I'll be attending the to date biggest german Tournament(The best region in europe) this weekend. Repping the Bae only <3
Wish me luck!

Viel Glück! (Where is the tournament btw?)

 

[Scream]

Viel Glück! (Where is the tournament btw?)

Lemgo, nähe Bielefeld. Danke

 

[Shog]

Lemgo, nähe Bielefeld. Danke

~ 230 km von hier enfernt T__T

Does the Tournament get streamed somewhere?

 

[Scream]

~ 230 km von hier enfernt T__T

Does the Tournament get streamed somewhere?

Damn i totally forgot about that. Yes it will be! By master Liva himself actually: Watch here http://www.twitch.tv/geekygoonsquad .
I am hailing from Karlsruhe actually, 5h car drive
You cans till go though, and enter at the venue!

 

[Xygonn]

http://smashboards.com/threads/what...o-see-samus-get-in-the-upcoming-patch.397180/

guys, I totally called the melee charge shot buff, ayyyyyyy!

Seriously though, try it out. With rage, it's disgusting. Kills mario at the ledge at about 41%!!!!! It's way safer on shield because the hitstun affects shields now along with the electric. The pushback also pushes you further out of range of retaliation than before. Kills rosa at like 35% on the edge if you have full rage and 54% without rage. It's crazy crazy crazy. Ledge trump RMCS is way buffer than ledge trump bair.

 

[Wald0]

http://smashboards.com/threads/what...o-see-samus-get-in-the-upcoming-patch.397180/

guys, I totally called the melee charge shot buff, ayyyyyyy!

Seriously though, try it out. With rage, it's disgusting. Kills mario at the ledge at about 41%!!!!! It's way safer on shield because the hitstun affects shields now along with the electric. The pushback also pushes you further out of range of retaliation than before. Kills rosa at like 35% on the edge if you have full rage and 54% without rage. It's crazy crazy crazy. Ledge trump RMCS is way buffer than ledge trump bair.

But...there aren't that many custom tournaments out there are there? (Unless I'm missing something then please tell me)

 

[Xygonn]

But...there aren't that many custom tournaments out there are there? (Unless I'm missing something then please tell me)

There aren't many, but I wanted to play around with MCS after the patch.

 

[zblaqk]

It's really disappointing to be honest that customs are going the way of the dinosaur. :/ Soo much potential that is being squandered IMO.