Patch 1.1.1

[Afro Smash]

Killing at 200% from a throw at the ledge isnt good lol, its how it was pre patch too. Just wait on Dantarions posts for any other changes

 

[Petroklos]

The 2 games have different blast zones. It would be better to test pre patch of the same system.

I'll keep my numbers written down and retest when I update my WiiU.

Jab->FSmash starts sweetspoting Mario at 26% but you have to wait for him to finish sliding, making it unsafe imo. Keeps connecting without having to move until 62%. The higher the percent the faster you have to input the FSmash, resulting to wrong Jab2s.

EDIT: Tested the jabs on my unpatched WiiU as well, they seem to be acting the same way. Jab Buff must've been a placebo.

 

[KenMeister]

God dang I might actually main Samus now. Lol

 

[Onyx Leo]

lol, I wouldn't get your hopes up too high. While I'm ecstatic we're actually GETTING buffs, so far every enhancement seems incredibly negligible.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I was killing at 193 Mario on an omega (pilot wings I think?) and 180 range mario (computer) was not able to recover because he was thrown too far out.
It could be placebo but I think it's 15-20% better. I did a brief test with rage and it was working circa 160 but again, could all be placebo.

Nair is definitely NOT negligible. It basically doesn't whiff any more, I don't know what the data says but I assure you it's a good move now.

 

[Neldy09]

Uh, so I just killed a sheik at 124% with a down-smash, center stage. Seems new to me, but can someone tell me I
I'm not crazy?

Edit: hmm couldn't recreate in the lab. I'm trying to reexamine the replay...

Edit 2: I was at 26%, and hit them with the very tip of my foot. Sweet spot?

 

[Boney]

Uh, so I just killed a sheik at 124% with a down-smash, center stage. Seems new to me, but can someone tell me I
I'm not crazy?

Edit: hmm couldn't recreate in the lab. I'm trying to reexamine the replay...

Most definately Shiek was charging a smash attack.

 

[Metallinatus]

Apparently there has been a universal nerf to shield damage moves like shield breaker and DK's Headbutt. Wonder if any of our stuff got affected..

What? NO! Shields need nerfs in this game, not (indirect) buffs....
Anyway, excited with all these news on Samus :D

 

[Petroklos]

//IGNORE THIS POST//

UAir, grounded from the middle of the stage, Battle Field Omega, Vs Rosalina

3DS, Patched, starts killing at 151%

WiiU, Unpatched, starts killing at 139%


Will retest on WiiU after patch to make sure it's not different blast zones.

 

[TheWozny]

Forward and Back Throw Kill Percents (Each was done in Training on Omega Battlefield) (All Characters were pushed the farthest they could be to the edge)
Note: When a Percent is "CONFIRMED", the presence of the red lighting and the CPU not reacting before being KO'd was observed. "UNCONFIRMED" killed the CPU at the blastzone, but they were able to quickly jump right before death.
ALSO NOTE: All Fthrow Percents are assuming Samus is standing completely still. In the case of a dashing grab that results in her on the ledge, my results showed that the Fthrow right after the dash grab resulted in KO's 4% earlier for Jigglypuff, 5-6% earlier for Mario,
- Lightweight:


- Forward Throw: Jigglypuff was used as the test dummy here. On Omega Battlefield, Forward Throw KO'ed her at 163% UNCONFIRMED and 164% CONFIRMED.
- Back Throw: Jigglypuff was used as the test dummy here. On Omega Battlefield, with Samus the farthest on the edge she could be, Back throw KO'd at 169-172% UNCONFIRMED and 173% CONFIRMED


- Medium Weight:
- Forward Throw: Mario was used as the dummy here. On Omega Battlefield, Forward throw KO'ed him at 190% UNCONFIRMED and 191% CONFIRMED (Do not take these to heart, for these results seem to be somewhat "janky", with Mario sometimes dying earlier. My results are the most seen percent at which he was KO'd.)
-Back Throw: Mario was used again. Omega Battlefield, with Samus the farthest on the edge she could be, Back throw KO'd at 200-201% UNCONFIRMED and 202% CONFIRMED


- Heavy Weight:
- Forward Throw: Bowser was used as a dummy here. On Omega Battlefield, Forward Throw KO'ed him at 219-220% UNCONFIRMED and 220-221% CONFIRMED (Wait, what?? How can a percent be both Unconfirmed and Confirmed? Well, I threw Bowser well over twenty times at this percent, and it results in 9 times where he was KO'd with lightning, 3 times were KO without, and the remaining 8 were not KO's. Realistically, if Bowser is in his "about to fall off" animation, a Forward Throw will kill him. However, sometimes it will kill him even if he isn't in such animation.)
- Back Throw: Bowser was used as a dummy here. On Omega Battlefield, with Samus the farthest on the edge she could be, Back Throw KO'd him at 231-232% UNCONFIRMED and 233% CONFIRMED


- Conclusion:
Although these percents seem rather high, if the character being thrown ISN'T able to recovery high, chances are Samus will gimp them easily. Take the percents above and subtract ~15-20, and that is the "ideal" throw to gimp range (assuming the thrown character isn't able to recover high). Also, this test only tests Horizontal KOs. Characters with TERRIBLE recoveries will most likely die at percents earlier than shown. Very important to note is that DI was not factored into any of these experiments. Although it doesn't seem like much, this slight buff has given Samus a "good" ability to space opponents away even further.... but it still isn't really that viable. Just go for a charge shot or Screw Attack.

 

[Doeboy]

Do you guys think everything not in Thinkaman's additions is placebo? I love some of the posts in this thread haha but I'm worried about whether they're true or not.

 

[Hark17ball]

UAir, grounded from the middle of the stage, Battle Field Omega, Vs Rosalina

3DS, Patched, starts killing at 151%

WiiU, Unpatched, starts killing at 139%


Will retest on WiiU after patch to make sure it's not different blast zones.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2n5kue/blastzone_testing_3ds_vs_wii_u/

 

[Petroklos]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2n5kue/blastzone_testing_3ds_vs_wii_u/

Hmm, ok. I'll retest on WiiU and I'll return. Update time boys.

 

[Boney]

- Conclusion:
Although these percents seem rather high, if the character being thrown ISN'T able to recovery high, chances are Samus will gimp them easily. Take the percents above and subtract ~15-20, and that is the "ideal" throw to gimp range (assuming the thrown character isn't able to recover high). Also, this test only tests Horizontal KOs. Characters with TERRIBLE recoveries will most likely die at percents earlier than shown. Very important to note is that DI was not factored into any of these experiments. Although it doesn't seem like much, this slight buff has given Samus a "good" ability to space opponents away even further.... but it still isn't really that viable. Just go for a charge shot or Screw Attack.

As you said, di is not present here, it's probably the same

 

[Scream]

I just cant belive this ****, every damn patch guys.

Wait for confirmed changes.
Nothing besides what was posted by thinkaman was changed. RELAX.

 

[Petroklos]

I just cant belive this ****, every damn patch guys.

Wait for confirmed changes.
Nothing besides what was posted by thinkaman was changed. RELAX.

Jeez, no reason to get mad about it. At least this isn't another self pitying thread in this sub forum.

 

[DungeonMaster]

Yeah, it's all in good fun. We got SOMETHING and it clearly wasn't a nerf which is better than nothing and the alternative.

There are also global changes that the data miners might miss readily, it could be the throw is the same but some global property changed like blastzone distance or the size of omegas etc...
I'm going to check air-dodges and combos after work.

 

[KenMeister]

Yeah, it's all in good fun. We got SOMETHING and it clearly wasn't a nerf which is better than nothing and the alternative.

There are also global changes that the data miners might miss readily, it could be the throw is the same but some global property changed like blastzone distance or the size of omegas etc...
I'm going to check air-dodges and combos after work.

Was the dthrow buffs confirmed, though?

 

[DungeonMaster]

Was the dthrow buffs confirmed, though?

I definitely can land f-tilt out of d-throw on falcon registering on combo counter. That one is totally new. I literally spent 2 min on it, I will check the full combo trees later today for adjustments.

 

[Petroklos]

UpB and UAir numbers.

WiiU, Training Mode, Duck Hunt Omega, Middle of the Stage, Grounded UpB, Vs Mario
1.1.0: killed at 148%
1.1.1: kills at 141%

WiiU, Training Mode, Battlefield Omega, Middle of the Stage, Grounded UAir, Vs Rosalina
1.1.0: killed at 139%
1.1.1: kills at 142%

So uhm, both buffs? UpB kills earlier, UAir deals less knock back so chains better with itself and other aerials? /shrug

 

[KayJay]

I'm home now, didn't load the patch yet, tested throw's prepatch against rob on FD at the ledge.
NO DI (CPU dummy set to "control" instead of "stop")

Percentages where the red sparkle effect will be visible:
B-Throw 213%
F-Throw 202%
U-Throw 266%

I will now check the percentages after the update.
I also took a screenshot from the old D-throw angle.

Edit:
Percentages after the Update:
B-Throw 211%
F-Throw 201%
U-Throw 266%

I'm pretty sure I didn't mess up, but the difference from B-Throw/F-Throw is so tiny that it doesn't matter.
D-Throw angle seems the same.

 

[Ampheras]

Guys, have you noticed something?
Nair is a jab lock setup!
And so I discovered this jab lock combo:

On Sheik:
Rising Nair (can be Oos) - Jab - Charged Upsmash or
Rising Nair - Jab - CS - 36% dmg

On Ganon:
Rising Nair - Jab - Jab - Ftilt - Uair - Chargeshot - 52% dmg

Raise that Hype with that Nair!

 

[Adamas]

Holy ashskflfkabkd YES IT FEELS REDUCED.

I just connected dthrow to up angled ftilt on falcon at 20%. I can't tell you how many times I've tried that same combo from old habits at around 20% and it not coming even close to connecting.

If I'm wrong I got some extreme placebo.

.I've pulled that combo off quite a few times before the 1.1.1 patch. However, I'm not sure if you were able to D.I. out of it (in reference to 1.1.0) Maybe the knock back on d-throw was reduced, allowing you to connect with a f-air before they are able to D.I.

 

[-_ellipsis_-]

Guys, have you noticed something?
Nair is a jab lock setup!
And so I discovered this jab lock combo:

On Sheik:
Rising Nair (can be Oos) - Jab - Charged Upsmash or
Rising Nair - Jab - CS - 36% dmg

On Ganon:
Rising Nair - Jab - Jab - Ftilt - Uair - Chargeshot - 52% dmg

Raise that Hype with that Nair!

Nair has always been a jablock setup. It's only issue was the small hitbox.


Btw, so much placebo in this thread.

 

[Boney]

Anybody able to test the specials shield damage? This could be bad for us

 

[GemZ]

Okay from my understanding, Up B has more consistent hit boxes and more easily gets the full move off if landed, and the knockback is better, is that correct? If not, what does the UpB buff mean?


Also, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the hit stun increase a buff to her as well since she can camp quite easily?

 

[Squaddle]

So that shield change is kind of fun

When you shoot your fully charged shot now, the enemy's stuck shielding for a tad longer, a bit similar to that yoshi stuck in his egg shield thing one of you noticed in a previous thread. I've broken ganon, falcon, and marth's shield when they should have been able to drop their shield saftely, but they just stay in it and die. I'm also more reliably getting extra those chunky hits out of their shield using down-b->attack->second hit of down-b, but I might just be playing against people who don't know the matchup.

 

[Doeboy]

So that shield change is kind of fun

When you shoot your fully charged shot now, the enemy's stuck shielding for a tad longer, a bit similar to that yoshi stuck in his egg shield thing one of you noticed in a previous thread. I've broken ganon, falcon, and marth's shield when they should have been able to drop their shield saftely, but they just stay in it and die. I'm also more reliably getting extra those chunky hits out of their shield using down-b->attack->second hit of down-b, but I might just be playing against people who don't know the matchup.

Wait so shield STUN is longer now?

 

[S.P.A.D.]

Wait so shield STUN is longer now?

Eeeee-yup. Depth was insanely excited over it. Guess that means I am fighting a losing battle with my playstyle :/

 

[Squaddle]

Wait so shield STUN is longer now?

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3myz6p/looks_like_shield_stun_andor_shield_hit_lag_have/

 

[KenMeister]

Ya know, come to think of it, Zair is going to be pretty annoying to contend with now now that the shield stun changes are in place, think the changes might benefit Samus any?

 

[DungeonMaster]

The first thing I thought of when shield stun increased was up-tilt being totally safe.
Because it also benefits jab-like light hits, up-air, up-air out of SH-AD.
Super-missile CS may "true combo" on shields. Not sure.
Air-dodge change may be important, still many hours before I can test anything...

 

[KenMeister]

Like, dang, these universal changes might be really good for Samus. Hell, I've put in a fair bit of time with her as a secondary and now I might actually plan on maining her. Haha

 

[leiraD]

Definitely think this change is a help to our character more than a hurt.

 

[Squaddle]

Ya know, come to think of it, Zair is going to be pretty annoying to contend with now now that the shield stun changes are in place, think the changes might benefit Samus any?

for one, less versatile shields means a good grab isn't going to be as necessary a tool to have. Added stun also means moves like up-tilt and Supermissile should be much more safer on shield, and theoretically we can combo more attacks into CS to nail easy shield breaks.

 

[Boney]

The shield stun won't really be significant to impact zair I'd think

 

[JAZZ_]

anyone else find it funny that most of the cast got only customs buffed?

 

[TheWozny]

I think the stun will help confirm Shield breaks on the edge from Bomb + full charge shot A LOT more.

 

[Boney]

Anybody check Dantarion's data dump? http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore3/diff/144-to-160/samus

What's downattacku and downattackd? They got changed apparently but I have no idea how to read this

anyone else find it funny that most of the cast got only customs buffed?

Doesn't make up for last time

 

[leiraD]

Probably not zair much, but shielded bombs will open up more punish opportunities.