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Better yet give him his Japanese voice. That voice is too cool.Voice buffs. His victory taunts are too quiet.
Mm, I do not see how it will be incredibly useful. Our main confirms on shield, being down air and dash attack, are already difficult to punish on block when spaced or crossed up correctly. Mach Tornado and jab still cannot lock opponents in shield.Aside from a buff to a completely useless custom that we would have never used anyway, Meta Knight appears to be unchanged as most of us predicted.
Something to note: Shield stun has been increased universally. This is going to benefit some characters more than others. This could be quite useful to us.
Do the four frames or better moves apply to everything or just moves that result in tripping?It's mind-boggling just how much safety we received this patch. MK's biggest issue in neutral has always been that the only answer he had to shields was dash grab... we don't have that issue anymore. Here's a table of notable moves that were affected by this. Calculations done based on @Shaya's shield stun formula of [floor](damage/1.8)+3
Move|Shield Stun|Landing Lag (Relative to Hitbox Frame)/FAF|FAF relative to shieldstun|FAF relative to time it takes to drop shield|Possible Applications
Nair | 8 Frames | 16 Frames | Minus 8 Frames | Plus 2 Frames | Cross up Nair to Grab is unpunishable without a breversed upb OOS or very wide hitbox upsmash OOS.
Fair | 4 Frames | 20 Frames | Minus 16 Frames | Minus 6 Frames | Simple, direct buff. Max spaced the pushback makes fair safe on block versus most characters.
Dtilt | 5 Frames | 19 Frames | Minus 11 Frames | Minus 1 Frame | This move is already fantastic. Using it on shield now means that unless your opponent has a fast OOS option, they need a 4 frame or better move after shield drop to not get dtilt-ed again, and get tripped.
Dash Attack 1/2/3 | 6/6/5 Frames | 32/31-29/28 Frames | Minus 19/18-16/16 | Minus 9/8-6/6 | Another straight-up improvement. Dash Attack through shield is basically unpunishable.
Everything else just got safer in general. Our neutral game is so much better now. Now we have 5 great moves (including Dash Grab) to use in neutral instead of just 2. Looking forward to abusing this stuff.
Dtilt comes out in 3 frames so you can get a second dtilt 4 frames after shield drop animation completes. Sorry if that wasn't clear.Do the four frames or better moves apply to everything or just moves that result in tripping?
That's really cool! So, it looks like we kinda indirectly get our SH fair buffIt's mind-boggling just how much safety we received this patch. MK's biggest issue in neutral has always been that the only answer he had to shields was dash grab... we don't have that issue anymore. Here's a table of notable moves that were affected by this. Calculations done based on @Shaya's shield stun formula of [floor](damage/1.8)+3
Move|Shield Stun|Landing Lag/FAF(Relative to Hitbox Frame)|FAF relative to shieldstun|FAF relative to time it takes to drop shield|Possible Applications
Nair | 8 Frames | 16 Frames | Minus 8 Frames | Plus 2 Frames | Cross up Nair to Grab is unpunishable without a breversed upb OOS or very wide hitbox upsmash OOS.
Fair | 4 Frames | 20 Frames | Minus 16 Frames | Minus 6 Frames | Simple, direct buff. Max spaced the pushback makes fair safe on block versus most characters.
Dtilt | 5 Frames | 19 Frames | Minus 11 Frames | Minus 1 Frame | This move is already fantastic. Using it on shield now means that unless your opponent has a fast OOS option, they need a 4 frame or better move after shield drop to not get dtilt-ed again, and get tripped.
Dash Attack 1/2/3 | 6/6/5 Frames | 32/31-29/28 Frames | Minus 19/18-16/16 | Minus 9/8-6/6 | Another straight-up improvement. Dash Attack through shield is basically unpunishable.
F-Smash | 11 Frames | 18 Frames | Minus 7 Frames | PLUS THREE FRAMES | Holy ****. Buffered dtilt comes out at the same time as shield drop animation finishing.
Everything else just got safer in general. Our neutral game is so much better now. Now we have 5 great moves (including Dash Grab) to use in neutral instead of just 2. Looking forward to abusing this stuff.
Edit: Added fsmash.
It's mind-boggling just how much safety we received this patch. MK's biggest issue in neutral has always been that the only answer he had to shields was dash grab... we don't have that issue anymore. Here's a table of notable moves that were affected by this. Calculations done based on @Shaya's shield stun formula of [floor](damage/1.8)+3
Move|Shield Stun|Landing Lag/FAF(Relative to Hitbox Frame)|FAF relative to shieldstun|FAF relative to time it takes to drop shield|Possible Applications
Nair | 8 Frames | 16 Frames | Minus 8 Frames | Plus 2 Frames | Cross up Nair to Grab is unpunishable without a breversed upb OOS or very wide hitbox upsmash OOS.
Fair | 4 Frames | 20 Frames | Minus 16 Frames | Minus 6 Frames | Simple, direct buff. Max spaced the pushback makes fair safe on block versus most characters.
Dtilt | 5 Frames | 19 Frames | Minus 11 Frames | Minus 1 Frame | This move is already fantastic. Using it on shield now means that unless your opponent has a fast OOS option, they need a 4 frame or better move after shield drop to not get dtilt-ed again, and get tripped.
Dash Attack 1/2/3 | 6/6/5 Frames | 32/31-29/28 Frames | Minus 19/18-16/16 | Minus 9/8-6/6 | Another straight-up improvement. Dash Attack through shield is basically unpunishable.
F-Smash | 11 Frames | 18 Frames | Minus 7 Frames | PLUS THREE FRAMES | Holy ****. Buffered dtilt comes out at the same time as shield drop animation finishing.
Everything else just got safer in general. Our neutral game is so much better now. Now we have 5 great moves (including Dash Grab) to use in neutral instead of just 2. Looking forward to abusing this stuff.
Edit: Added fsmash.
I love itFsmash on block is absurd... I've been following it up with just about anything for free pressure; especially with the opponents back against the ledge. I can imagine some pretty silly frame traps coming from this and dtilt.
This is why playing the neutral surgically is so important. If you play metaknight, you have to adopt salenas playstyle. He barely uses shield, just lots of movement tech to keep pressure.Not to dismiss the benefits we have received, but this is also a detriment to our gameplay. Because of Meta Knight's limited neutral game, we have to rely on dashing into shield a lot, and relying on the shield for these purposes is not as safe to do as it was previously. We have the mobility to stay mobile in neutral, but we do not have the luxury to throw out hit boxes without making our neutral binary and predictable.
Nado on shield pretty much feels the exact sameWas hoping for Nado to be even better at crushing shields but what we got is even better than what I thought. I am excited to test the changes. ;-;
But with the new shield changes, it's basically safe on shield. And if the shields low, it could break it.Nado on shield pretty much feels the exact same
But with the new shield changes, it's basically safe on shield. And if the shields low, it could break it.
new findings?Word of warning: new findings mean my numbers are completely wrong. Will fix soon.
Safety is variable based on when you hit shield, because shields no longer pause the minimum active frames while in hitstun. Basically everything was over estimated by about 6 frames.new findings?
i crySafety is variable based on when you hit shield, because shields no longer pause the minimum active frames while in hitstun. Basically everything was over estimated by about 6 frames.