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Well first, Luigi is still alright. He's just lacking in kill setups now.
He's lacking in KO power in general. Unless he can land a smash attack, he might as well walk off and end it quickly now that he has no way of reliably killing.
Check this: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Rosalina_&_Luma_(SSB4) and go to the update section, check the list of nerfs, complaining about 1 setup is nothing like all moves are giving less knockback, including most KO moves.
The match up ratings on these boards are very off base though, and underrate her in a lot of cases.
Not the same thing. If Luma got knockback nerfs on all of his moves, or if Rosalins got damage nerfs on all of hers, then it'd be different. She'd be loosing the thing that makes her what she is, with no compensation. Luma is already naturally strong, and Rosalina naturally deals a lot of damage, they didn't go out of their way to take that away from them, like they did with Luigi, taking away all of his grab options. To summarize, down throw was Luigi's Luma. Luigi's Luma now goes to spend the night by his friend whenever Luigi's opponent gets to 80%.
I think people were just mistaken. It's always been a common misconception that Luma had his ability to attack while Rosalina was grabbed stripped from him, when that never happened. It was just during throws (and even then, buffering an attack just before the throw starts is still doable).
That. Is. Disguting.
So they recover from shield break when they fall now? In the old days I was able to break yoshis shield and knock him off the edge with our wind box and he fell to his death. No go anymore?
Not sure, shiek did automaticly grab the edge so that might just be a ledgecancel.
How, luma atks have less shield stun now, does that mean her atks are less safe on block. Can you punish her dtilt now?
I think that may be a error. All attacks got more shieldstun, not less.
I think this is the case, its an error. It doesn't make any sense if the shield stun is based off of damage that they would get less shield stun.
Sheik is a character who was already safe on shield pre-patch. Barely, but still safe. As such, these changes don't benefit her nearly as much as other characters.
Then why do these same players lose more and more as time goes on? And why do I not see Rosalina players take any big tournaments these days?
That's pretty much what I mean.
I'm quite intrigued by this paradigm shifter playstyle you've brought up on multiple occasions throughout the forum. I would love to see rosalinas pick up a new playstyle that would allow her to reach new heights in power. However, with no examples of how to play as a paradigm shifter, its all a theory with no substance. Again, I am not against a change in the meta. I just would rather have an idea what I am reaching for rather than guessing what to do based off of what some random person on smash boards says. Please provide examples so that people can understand what you mean.
thats not what dabuz said, he did testing and said the luma has less shield stun, while other characters have more, including rosalina
So what you're saying is that shield stun is not based on damage?
The word "paradigm" literally just means "the resulting formation from when multiple people combine the same or different roles".
Um. It obviously isn't. If you are the only one saying that it's a viable strat, no matter how obvious you think it is and however many times you try to explain that it's obvious, it isn't going to become less obvious for others. Again, I feel I have to explain, I know what paradigm shift if is. You've explained that portion multiple times throughout the forum. My question, and I'm sure I speak for many others, is how does one apply this. Using your monado arts analogy, while some portions are obvious (use speed to go faster, etc) others aren't so obvious. For example, using smash art (or which ever one boosts KB) at lower percents to make combos harder to do on Shulk. This is something that isn't as obvious. Now, going back to paradigm shifting, this is literally a completely different playstyle than the one people are used to. While it's simple to understand why the smash art thing works, this is a bit more confusing and needs to be shown. Perhaps I'm just a little slow on the uptake and it's only me that would like video evidence of how this plays out. But I don't believe that's true.
Here's a source. I'm not sure exactly how he tested everything since I wasn't watching his stream, but it is Dabuz so it would think it's pretty trustworthy.
That's the thing, a paradigm shifting playstyle literally entails using other playstyles at the appropriate time, with the appropriate character (i.e. Rosalina or Luma or both).
Hmmm. So there's a mechanic that makes the shield stun not work for Luma. Are there other characters where this same mechanic is applied, or is it just Luma?
luma does less shield stun this patch than before, hence its a nerf
So does Luma do any shield stun?
It does, its just less than before, your opponent can escape your jab pressure easier now as an example.
I don't think Luma does less shield stun, but rather that its attack are less safe on shield for other reasons. In addition to shield stun, there is also something called shield lag. It's like hitlag, but when hitting a shield; both characters are stuck and can't do anything. Before this patch, the amount of shield lag experienced by the attacker and defender differed if the attack had a hitlag modifier. The defender always has a hitlag modifier (HM) of 1, so attacks with HM > 1 had a frame disadvantage, and attacks with HM < 1 had frame advantage. This patch, the attacker and defender always receive the same shield lag, so moves with HM < 1 became less safe.