Parry

[capncone]

I've been watching a lot of vids with Marth and it seems like people never use parry. I use it all the time and it works. Why don't people use it?

 

[REDRAGON]

I've been watching a lot of vids with Marth and it seems like people never use parry. I use it all the time and it works. Why don't people use it?

They dont use it because its very laggy and if you miss you WILL get punished...bad....
But its not a horrid move, it just situational.

 

[pdk]

the more experienced your opponents are, the more aware of that move they get; simple as that

 

[Roman.]

You have to really predict your opponents nicely to use parry, if you miss you will get punished big time.

 

[SOPF]

The counter really isn't worth using unless you've read your opponent to the point where you know when a serious attack is coming, and is possibly the worst move a Marth could spam. Used wisely it's not that bad but, like Redragon said, a failed counter leads to horrid punishment capabilities due to the lag afterward. Pros don't use it because other pros would jump up at the chance to punish a missed counter and it's probably difficult to read players of such high levels to that point.

 

[Randizzle]

if you can really read your opponents well enough that you can just counter everything, then you probably have better options. If you can really read you opponents that well, then why not use some other attack? Most of marth's other attacks (if properly spaced) do more damage than the counter AND can often set up for combos or edgeguarding.
And as mentioned, a smart player will quickly notice that you're spamming the counter and quickly punish you for it.

 

[capncone]

yeah. Well, it works on my friends (Most of the time) because we're noobs, but if I ever play someone good I'll remember that.

 

[The Black Cat]

If your n ot good at reading your opponent just yet, you should probably just use it for edgegaurding. Your spacing is off, but you don't have enough time to fix it. At times like those it works wonders.

Or somthing universal, if a fox is under you...you know he's going to use U-air.

 

[Elen]

It doesn't do very much damage or knockback and it's extremely laggy. It has very few situation uses, but in general it should be used quite a minimal ammount. The only good uses I can see for it are to switch up your edgeguarding and maybe protect yourself from being juggled (foxes uthrow to uair at certain percents comes to mind ^.^) In general, there are just better options, but it's not a completely useless move.

 

[JesiahTEG]

actually, you guys would be surprised. People do counter. Ken and M2k counter a lot. They both use it to stop falco's approach with lasers. Like, if a falco jumps towards you and lasers, if you counter the laser then you will stop their approach. Also, if your falling from above and you know they will attack you, you can counter. Ken sometimes while edgeguarding, if his opponent is just waiting on the edge, he'll just run up and counter.

And just FYI, there's a match between Ken and Tink where Ken is playing Marth and Tink is playing Falco, and Ken counters Tink 6 times in a row, all withing like 10 seconds. It's amazing to watch. 6 times in a row ppl. I mean, this match was official. Both players are pro, and there was commentarty and eveything. Wife I think was commentating and he was like "Ken gets a little cocky with the counter there."

LOL it's on www.mlgpro.com, it's on their video on demand section. You should watch it, it's hilarious.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Against falco yes, countering is good

but otherwise jesiah, its rarely used.

 

[ArcNatural]

You would also be surprised at how well counter works when:
A: when they are waiting underneath you as your getting up on top of a platform.
B: Against Shiek who has grabbed the edge after dtilting. Most of them will think the dtilt is laggy enough and will try to sh a fair.
C: Against Firefoxes in general, countered firefox > drop of stage fair is the easiest edge gimping ever on fox and falco. Just try to avoid tipping the fair (for a change).

 

[Vall3y]

think of the risk\reward:
risk = getting owned big time
reward = low knockback 7%

it has its uses though.
mainly edgeguarding falco LOL

 

[Stormblast]

If your n ot good at reading your opponent just yet, you should probably just use it for edgegaurding. Your spacing is off, but you don't have enough time to fix it. At times like those it works wonders.

Or somthing universal, if a fox is under you...you know he's going to use U-air.

I have actually countered a Uair from fox....I countered the first hit....got the second one to my face.

 

[Schweppes]

I find its two best uses are:

1) Against Falco. lol lazers -> counterrape. You still have to be careful with it though, and good Falcos will space their lasers so they land outside the reach of your counter. When mixed in with other things (powershielding, WDing from shield) it can be quite helpful in discouraing laser spamming...

2) Edgegaurding. It works on most recoveries (three that dont are Falcon's, Ganon's, and phatasms when they go past you, I'm sure there are others I can't think of right now), in those situations it's usually easier/safer to just Dtilt, NeutralA, or ledgehop Bair/Dair or any other of marth's 3847926 edgeguarding options. However, against Y. Link and (especially) Link, it can be extremely helpful. While it is risky (as always) to jump of the edge and counter, countering the hookshot pretty much guarantees death for your opponent.

Both of these uses (and whatever others) are still pretty risky...like Vall3y said it's a risk/reward thing.

P.S. Don't try to use it to break out of combos (for the most part). If a Fox is Uairing you and you're DIing down in order to counter...that's bad. Just use smart DI and/or some aerial to get out.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Vall3y hit the nail on the head..unless your foe is falco and hes spamming lasers, there really isn't reason enough to go for it..and I'm not going to counter against sheik, ever.

If you can counter the firefox, that means you could also just edgeguard it..edgeguarding fox with marth is like chaingrabbing in a sheik ditto..extremely easy and gay.

 

[ArcNatural]

It is much easier to tech/DI an Fsmash than to tech a counter. Do what you want, but I find counter > off stage fair to be much more effective. Many Pros use it when you don't have time to space a Fsmash. It's particularly effective if you have just neutral A'd a phantasm, since most foxes just try to upB ASAP.

And against Shiek, it's a mindgame. If you find that when you try to dtilt the edge they immediately ledge hop to fair it can be used. I'm not saying to use it at all times. Just remember that if you try to wavedash back to Fsmash or something they will usually still be in their invinc. frames the counter is long enough so that they aren't.

You just have to learn to counter effectively and with good reason. Not just counter because you THINK your going to get hit. Counter is much more effective if you can establish patterns from your opponents.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

I don't need to learn to counter effectively because if I can counter, nine times out of ten theres a better choice of options.

 

[Randizzle]

it has it's uses against really aggressive falcos, but that's mostly the only time when I'll use it.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Yeah, I said that in earlier post randizzle, thanks for agreeing!

but thats really the only time its better than the other things you can do.

 

[capncone]

Ok. I'll try to break the habit because, like I said, it works against my friends because they're predictable so I like to use it.

 

[Dark Sonic]

I use it to fend off ledgehop aerials and for edgeguarding if I don't have time to space a smash or d-tilt. By countering their ledgehopped aerial I'm making them more hesitant to use ledgehopped aerials and they'll likely wait expecting a counter. It makes a very effective mindgame if you throw it out every now and then.

 

[Miggz]

I love the Parry. Have you seen my vids titled Bermudian Smashers? Its on the second page of this forum. I use the parry quite a few times. I simply love it. Plus at low percent you can get in a uptilt (assuming one l-cancels right lol) and the damage continues from there really. ^^

 

[SOPF]

I love the Parry. Have you seen my vids titled Bermudian Smashers? Its on the second page of this forum. I use the parry quite a few times. I simply love it. Plus at low percent you can get in a uptilt (assuming one l-cancels right lol) and the damage continues from there really. ^^

Yeah, about that, I'm pretty sure you can't L-cancel any attacks other than the Fair, Uair, Bair, and Dair. So L-canceling the counter can't be done. And come on, seriously. The counter isn't something you use to start a combo. Maybe to occasionally switch things up, but it's definitely not a combo starter or a combo continuer, for that matter.

 

[Miggz]

LMAO!

I’m sorry bro. My friends and I here call the parry the double fair. We call counter…counter. :S

Sorry, I was talking about the double fair.

 

[Miggz]

Yeah, about that, I'm pretty sure you can't L-cancel any attacks other than the Fair, Uair, Bair, and Dair. So L-canceling the counter can't be done. And come on, seriously. The counter isn't something you use to start a combo. Maybe to occasionally switch things up, but it's definitely not a combo starter or a combo continuer, for that matter.

I have no clue why I got the parry confused with the double fair. I can be such a lame guy sometimes. Maybe it would have helpt if I read all the above comments first eh? Last time I call the double fair the parry, that's for sure. Sorry for the confusion...I feel stupid now.

 

[ArcNatural]

I for one would like to know how you came to calling the shffl double fair the parry. Simply because it sound's like a tale!

And the reason most don't use it alot as an opening is because in competitive play it's very easily punishable if you just open with it. They are more effective once you have hit or baited them into the air or a laggy attack. Faster characters can easily punish you in between fairs as your pretty open in between. It can be applicable as shield pressure and if your close to them that they can't escape, but you normally have much better shield pressure options and safer opportunities. Single fairs are generally safer as if they rush you can fair earlier, and if they don't you can always keep them at bay by fairing close to the ground.

 

[Miggz]

I for one would like to know how you came to calling the shffl double fair the parry. Simply because it sound's like a tale! .

I simply got it mixed up. I even just read the dictionary for the word, so I understand why people call the counter "parry." I remember my mates and I were talking about Smash terms a while back and I heard some say I like to Parry with Marth. Back then, I thought parry was strickly a smash term, and double fair simply came to mind. I should have asked to be sure, but I wrongly assumed that is what the term meant. Why? No clue just sounded right. And yes, it was very ignorant of me to assume that. Speaking of the double fair, one of my friends told me it’s considered a WOP (Wall Of Pain) and I thought it was strictly a Jiggz term. So I learn new things about smash all the time, my error was simple and not worth accusing me of lies. lol. Read my first comment in this thread again, you can clearly pick out that I was indeed referring to the double fair. But once again, I said sorry for the confusion. I put it behind me, I'm a skilled player, people think I have been to tourneys, but never attended one, yet I play as if I have won a few minor ones. Not bad for a guy on a small island. So yeah, parry = counter, I get it now. ^^;

 

[REDRAGON]

Ok. I'll try to break the habit because, like I said, it works against my friends because they're predictable so I like to use it.

Well if your opponent is acted completly predictable then parry all you want, but soon they will figue you out and you will pay for it.

 

[DynamicDuo]

what he said ^^^^

 

[FrostByte]

Marth has a weak spot below and slightly behind him. If your opponent tries to uair you, you will have no attacks that are fast enough to cover that area. The counter could probably be used here if your opponent figures out that you over-b stall. Also good for edgeguarding tech happy spacies.

 

[Ijuka]

Counter can be teched xD