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Panda's 2nd Tier List (10.14.08)

Deception

Deception

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
556
Location
Jacksonville, Florida
ROOOOY! said:
Actually

Meta Knight
Snake
Wario 136.03
Mr. Game & Watch
King Dedede
Marth
Donkey Kong
Lucario
Diddy Kong
Ice Climbers
R.O.B.
Pit
Falco
Zelda/Sheik
Sonic
Zero Suit Samus
Olimar
Kirby
Ike
Peach
Wolf
Pikachu
Lucas
Bowser
Luigi
Fox
Toon Link
Captain Falcon
Link
Mario
Jigglypuff
Yoshi
Pokemon Trainer
Ness
Ganondorf
Samus

Is Shaya's list for October. I know in September Sonic was 3 or 4 places lower, but still. I hope you get my point. There was one point in like August or something where for half a month he was around the bottom of the list, but other than that he's been in the high 20's ish ranking wise, other than like the first month or so of release, where people didn't use Sonic seriously.
Which is ironically where a lot of the haters I've heard say he's got most of his wins from >_>

It just annoys me. Like, the tier list is based on how characters are performing in the metagame at the time. Even when the tier list was made we were I think 22nd, and ended up 5th bottom. Co-incidentally, the person who had the 5th worst results (Bowser) actually got 22nd place I think, and it's not like Bowser's results have improved massively since then to merit his place.
Basically, despite all the facts and figures thrown around about Sonic, the response a la the tier list was basically "lol u soinc mains sux" even though we had better results than every other low tier, and a lot of the mid tiers.
It's just annoying, lol.
Click to expand...
Samus at the very bottom? It annoys me that she is treated as a horrible character when she could easily take Ike's position on the tier list.
 
ROOOOY!

ROOOOY!

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TLink_King said:
I really see what you mean. But at the same time, you can't just look at the rankings list to determine a tier list. For example, do you really think Toon Link should be just one spot above CF? Should Pit be over Falco?
Click to expand...
For the purposes of Samurai Panda's personal list, it should be one of the more important factors.
I only say this because the only criterion for the list was to do the the characters current metagame in tournament play. What better way to show that then current results lists?
Obviously we can't solely depend on them, but as I said for this specific criteria, it's basically as close as you can get.


As for the tier list in general, no. There are other factors, such as match-ups, character strengths and weaknesses etc, which are said to be more important than results.
I really don't buy into this though.
I'm going to use my main Sonic as an example for a second. On paper, he's a character with bad attributes, which is why everyone labels him garbage, and this trail of thought carries over onto the match-ups too. We generally don't argue them, because we're met by blind ignorance mostly, but I'm going off on a tangent. This is all basically theory.
What Sonic does have however is a lot of tools, which aren't considered by most people, which are actually put into use at high level play. This isn't theory, this is everything; all the match-up theories, all the character attributes, put into practice.
What Sonic has shown here is specifically deviant from the theories, he often beats high/top tiers at high level play, and shows himself as doing well at tournaments, hence his consistant high placings in character ranking list.
Although bad on paper, he's not when put into practise, when in a tournament setting. Surely, what's actually taken place should be more accountable of what a character's potential is and how they fare against 'tournament worthy' characters, then theoretical things on paper which for the most part are very narrow minded and very often untrue, such as match-ups and character abilities?
Just my two cents. Please don't fret about any spelling/grammatical mistakes I've made, I'm too busy to actually go over it now.
Sociology essays.
 
Mmac

Mmac

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Shaya's List is very questionable at best. His first list had Yoshi listed in September (Where Yoshi was 24 before Ankoku's List closed) with only 5 points, which made no sense due to the results he had in September covering the drop off from August. October, he has several Top 4 Listings with even 2 Win's, and he DROPPED 2 Points!

This is why I am waiting for Ankoku's List to refresh in November, because I don't trust Shaya at all.


You also got to remember that Sonic is considerably more popular than any of the Low Tier Characters, and even some of the Mids and Highs.
 
ROOOOY!

ROOOOY!

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I was quite dubious about it too, for the same reasons as you. However, in that thread Ankoku and Shaya have been talking about it (like, about it's distribution in the thread, not about the placings) and Ankoku's not brought up any issues about character placements, so I don't know.

However, even if that list is wrong, my point I feel still stands. For a long while now Sonic has had better results than a lot of people immediately above him in the actual tier list, yet his placement in it does not reflect that. Like I also said, on paper things are holding Sonic back, but in practice they're non-existant, all theorycraft, and I believe the results are the most important things to consider over match-ups and such because tournaments are all these theories put into practice.
 
rm88

rm88

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D3 and G&W above Snake? That's it, Snake counters me.
 
NintenJoe

NintenJoe

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Link moved up?!?!?! YES! :chuckle: Just a little more representation at tournaments, and he might move up to middle tier!

P.S. Why is the middle tier so big?
 
Ruse

Ruse

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I'd been thinking that G&W was number two for a while now. Pretty good tier list; much better than the now outdated SBR one.
 
Terios the Hedgehog

Terios the Hedgehog

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I likes it better.

I'm not willing to read throught the whole topic but someone mentioned ways around GnW?

His hitboxes stay out for extended periods of time. That's both a blessing and a curse. He signals when he's GOING to be unsafe.
 
Steeler

Steeler

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cj.Shark said:
consquences of a tierlist made by a MW. super high Gnw and Pika. argh u MWers need more metaknights.. seriously.
Click to expand...
maybe we are just ahead of the curve, since mk will likely be banned in the future, and we are just an example of what will happen...and then the coasts will all have to catch up to us, not the other way around.

ahead of the curve son
 
Reidlos Toof

Reidlos Toof

Foot Dive!
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Messages
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WOOOOO! Kirby's mid tier! Make this list official NOW so that I can start playing as kirby in mid-low tier tourneys! O.O
 
Minwu

Minwu

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A1lion835 said:
What exactly makes Falcon worse than Ganon (aside from... um... nothing).
Click to expand...

Autocancelled Dairs and bairs, sideb> something else on most characters, Ganoncide, Ganon super jump, quick jab and tilts, a dash attack with a good boost, IASA frames in most of his attacks, and the 0-66% thunderstorm combo(autocancelled dair>dair>dair).


He also has a fairly good matchup vs. D3 and Wario, while CF hates top tier characters.
 
The_Altrox

The_Altrox

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The_Altrox
I don't approve of :pt: placement.
You think somebody would have figured out a way to play as one or two of his pokemon only by now...
 
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