Palutena Custom Move Discussion

[ddonaldo]

Neutral Bs, explosive flame is better than the others in almost every aspect mainly because you dont have to worry about being punished if you use it correctly. Autoreticle doesn't have many "correct" times to use it as its unreliable when the enemy is airborne, unreliable when the enemy is dashing towards you, and wont even target if your opponent is invincible (rolls, sidestep etc.) heavenly light leaves you so punishable its not even funny. (I think it was made with FFA in mind)

As has been said, super speed has so many uses, and imo the cooldown is quite short. And simply because of this it outclasses the other 2 specials.

I have not actually experimented with her up specials so I have no comment.

Lightweight wins easily in down specials especially if you have a stage with platforms, it means the cooldown is not even an issue. Counter doesn't really help Palutena since imo the matchups she struggles in are against characters with very safe options.
I do like fireworks though and I can see some combo potential, its just that lightweight brings so much more and makes you an offstage beast in the process.

tl;dr 2,3,?,2

 

[Thinkaman]

Recap:

Auto-Reticule is a passable option in the neutral against aerial approaching and some super-campy behaviors, but Explosive Flame's edgeguarding utility outmatches it, even if only slightly. Heavenly Light is trash.

Reflect Barrier is really good. Angelic Missile is really mediocre. Super Speed is the best move in the entire game.

Warp is a quick way to escape bad situations and have a recovery with good vertical distance and a wide spread of options. Jump Glide's superior horizontal distance and spacing options are overkill in practice, and not as useful as Warp. Rocket Jump isn't bad, but worse than both.

Counter and Firework are both good moves, but Lightweight is a great move.


I run and would recommend 2312 in every matchup.

 

[Rashid]

Could you explain how to use Explosive Flame effectively? I can't seem to use it effectively; I always gravitate back to AR.

 

[Thinkaman]

Could you explain how to use Explosive Flame effectively? I can't seem to use it effectively; I always gravitate back to AR.

Honestly, it's pretty much:

Are they off-stage? Do I not feel like jumping out their with aerials in this situation? Throw an Explosive Flame in their path down.

It works at essentially any height, including covering ledge.

I use it in the neutral when people are stubbornly immobile, but probably shouldn't--at least as much as I do.

Note that the last hit of Explosive Flame is unblockable. You can shield the first hits and dodge/roll, though.

 

[AnchorTea]

I guess i'm the only guy who runs with heavenly light...

 

[Thinkaman]

I guess i'm the only guy who runs with heavenly light...

Care to share why?

 

[AnchorTea]

Care to share why?

It pushes opponents from you, and it also damages them. It's surprisignly useful in certain situations.

 

[Thinkaman]

It pushes opponents from you, and it also damages them. It's surprisignly useful in certain situations.

Fujin tried to use this in 4v4, and 4v4 aside I found it trivial to punish. Every time he used it, I got to punch him in the face as Ganondorf. (And if Ganon can punish it, everyone can.)

 

[AnchorTea]

Fujin tried to use this in 4v4, and 4v4 aside I found it trivial to punish. Every time he used it, I got to punch him in the face as Ganondorf. (And if Ganon can punish it, everyone can.)

I just find it useful.

 

[PlTe]

My best set with Palutena is Explosive Flame, Angelic Missile, Warp, and Celestial Firework.

Explosive Flame stops people who try to charge in and hit me right when the battle starts, and also is great for spacing.
Angelic Missile is great horizontal recovery and deals a lot of damage, plus easy to recover from.
Warp is great vertical recovery but can be unreliable during landing times.
Celestial Firework deals with people who get up-close-and-personal too much.

 

[AnchorTea]

I find Rocket Jump to be amazing.

It's literally the perfect gimping/meteor inducing move.

 

[Fire Tactician]

Could you explain how to use Explosive Flame effectively? I can't seem to use it effectively; I always gravitate back to AR.

I have only used Explosive Flame in about six matches (all tonight), but I'm already sold on it. I like to use it in conjunction with Lightweight. If you time an Explosive Flame on an opponent at a high percentage (especially when off the ledge), they'll go flying high. It's not usually enough to KO, but Lightweight makes Palutena... light... so she can jump right up to the flying opponent in a single jump and Uair them for a vertical KO. I haven't gotten to test this against people, but I'm looking forward to doing so when I get a chance in two weeks.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

What makes Lightweight better than Celestial Firework and Super Speed better than Angelic Missile?

I'm thinking of running Explosive Flame, Angelic Missile, Warp/Jump Glide, and Celestial Firework.

 

[Lavani]

What makes Lightweight better than Celestial Firework?

It lets Palutena go deep offstage for edgeguards, gives her Sonic levels of speed letting her choose when she does or doesn't want to engage the opponent, and the extra speed and jump height allow her to prevent opponents from DIing out of combos such as dthrow>uair, and even making combo extensions possible.

Someone more well-versed in the character could better answer your other question, my vague and likely somewhat erroneous reply is "Super Speed is like Spin Dash with more options out of it, while Angelic Missile is like Green Missile without the chance for a misfire."

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

It lets Palutena go deep offstage for edgeguards, gives her Sonic levels of speed letting her choose when she does or doesn't want to engage the opponent, and the extra speed and jump height allow her to prevent opponents from DIing out of combos such as dthrow>uair, and even making combo extensions possible.

Someone more well-versed in the character could better answer your other question, my vague and likely somewhat erroneous reply is "Super Speed is like Spin Dash with more options out of it, while Angelic Missile is like Green Missile without the chance for a misfire."

Well that's my default then. The whole Angelic Missile thing is stupid. I was hoping it would be dumb broken like Charizard's Take Down or Dark Pit's Side B.

 

[Rashid]

You can get ridiculously early KOs with Lightweight at mid %s if you down throw to nair to up air. Normally nair sends them too far, but LW not only lets you follow them, you can drag them with you towards the top blastzone.

Also, Charizard's side B (Flare Blitz, not Take Down) being "dumb broken"?

 

[Djent]

Lightweight is basically an Install Super.

Install Supers are stupid.

Super Speed is everything.

 

[kmpyj]

For me, my best moveset would have to be Auto Reticle, Reflect, Warp, and Lightweight.

Reason why for Auto Reticle, is because I guess I'm just use to using it. :/ Sounds weird, but I usually have good timing with it, and for the most part, it puts me in some pretty favorable positions. An honorable mention would have to go to Explosive Flame, because those edge games are fun. ; ) Heavenly Light......is just bad. I tried, over and over to find some usefulness out of it, and the only thing I came to a conclusion with is that it's great for pushing people away from you....that's it. Using Heavenly Light, is like throwing high beams on Palutena with a sign in her hand saying "Please Hit Me!!"

Reason for Reflect (kinda similar to Auto Reticle), I came quite use to it. I'm still poking around with it's edge game uses, but it can also be a good way in putting your opponent in a bad position. I can't tell you how many poor players lost a stock (or both stocks) because I Reflect pushed them off the stage. An Honorable would definitely have to be Super Kil..I mean Super Speed. That move is ridiculously amazing. If you love combos, you are doing yourself a huge injustice in not using this. Angelic Missile is a little unclear for me. I know it can be used more than once, but I haven't really fooled around with it much. So me speaking about it would be unfair, and unreliable.

The reason for Warp, I think that Answer is clear. The tech behind warp is flat out fun, and I warp cancel.....a lot....so yeah. Honorable mention goes to Jump Glide. It may not go high up, but it can surely travel. And while on ground, you have this neat little short hop glide, so that's pretty cool. I haven't really fooled around with Rocket Jump too much, but I know it has a meteor smash. Learned that one the hard way while playing against Admiral Pit. The Little Bugger dunk me right down :O

And last but not least, Lightweight. Do I really have to explain myself? When Palutena was revealed at E3 (which shock me because I was expecting to see Pacman at that moment but instead we got my number requested newcomer) the special move that interest me the most was Lightweight. Lightweight, being a Stat changing move, can ultimately open up new combo routes, and extend the use of certain combos (like Dthrow > Nair > Nair.) And, it can kill at low percentages (around 40-ish.) Highly recommend this one. An honorable mention would have to go to Celestial Fireworks. Love how quick it can be used, and how it can be followed up from. As for counter......well......I never really was a counter person unless I was playing as Roy or Lucina, or now Shulk. Not saying the move is bad, it's just my least favorite.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I love that Celestial Firework is a kill move with invincibility frames. I'm surprised so many of you prefer Lightweight to it.

 

[kmpyj]

Don't get me wrong, Celestial Fireworks is a great move, but I just love Stat changing moves a lot. Which is why I get a kick while playing as Monado Boy. Opens up different options and uses.

 

[Djent]

Lightweight is basically a kill move too.

But Celestial Firework is my 2nd favorite.

 

[kmpyj]

You know what, after fooling around with Super Speed..............I might have to reconsider..........in reference to my favorite moveset......

 

[xnine]

I tried out explosive flame, but I do think I prefer the options AR brings. It brings descending projectiles and an option I am comfortable throwing out in neutral against not sheik and sonic. I think it stuffs approaches and it edgeguards just as well as explosive flame.

I'll keep on working on explosive flame though. It's very possible that I just have AR tendencies that I need to shake off.

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

So my new favorite setup is 1322. I was so used to Warp that I preferred it, but now after experimenting with jump glide a lot more, I think it may be superior to Warp in the long run. Idk for sure, but we'll see. The combination 1322 just seems to blend together really nicely, and that's why it's my favorite setup as of now.

 

[Braydon]

I'm sure warps the best option because teleporting down can help avoid getting juggled. Palutena's down arial is hard to land, and really warp just has to many uses out of recovery to consider losing it.

Explosive flame has the possibility to break shields but it's just to hard to land for it to be a viable replacement for autoreticle, palutena really needs her zoning ability.

Personally I like counter though I can see why people would like lightweight.

Removing reflect leaves palutena vulnerable but there is a true combo from super speed to up smash, so it can become a kill move. All you do is press back to cancel as soon as you hit and the upsmash.

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

Lightweight is something I think is a must, seeing as it gives a guaranteed kill setup. Reflect/Super Speed can be matchup dependent, and I'm still figuring out whether I prefer Warp or Jump Glide overall.

 

[Braydon]

The thing about lightweight is that you have to get that kill within that timeframe, it's not as good as normal kill setups because it will expire.

Counters are generally some of the most useful moves in the game, and I think it's really a toss up between the two.

 

[Rashid]

Personally, I never use both Super Speed and Jump Glide in the same set. I feel like they both fulfill the same niche, despite being very different. JG is great against zoners who you can't get in on while still keeping your Reflect.

 

[Djent]

I'm beginning to think that Lightweight is as mandatory a part of Palutena's game as Super Speed. Possibly moreso, as there are at least a few (projectile heavy) MUs where Reflect Barrier might be desirable depending on individual playstyle. I can't think of a single MU where I'd forgo DThrow -> UAir kills at 70%ish for a frickin' Counter.

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

Personally, I never use both Super Speed and Jump Glide in the same set. I feel like they both fulfill the same niche, despite being very different. JG is great against zoners who you can't get in on while still keeping your Reflect.

I think the combination of Super Speed and Jump Glide with the addition of Lightweight make for a great mixup game mobility-wise. Jump Glide in Lightweight form also solves the problem I had spacing aerials in neutral at short hop distance. If you have one or the other, the opponent can just be ready to react to the one mixup of your approach, but if you have both, then you have more options to approach to keep your opponent guessing. And also, if your opponent is being very defensive and trying to bait out your Super Speed or Jump Glide approaches, you can harass them a little with Auto Reticle; you'd be surprised how effectively you can get the opponent to stop playing the defensive game he/she was playing and start approaching you. Explosive Flame can also do the same thing, but Auto Reticle comes out faster and has more range for poking. Anyway, just my 2 rupees.

 

[JayWon]

Celestial Fireworks is a must against Rosalina.

 

[Braydon]

i don't understand why you would ever try to use celestial firework it's the worst choice for a down special. It has limited range that is almost the same as an upsmash, if you want to hit someone above you use an upsmash, it has far less lag, far more damage, and doesn't require you to forfeit counter.

Palutena doesn't need any custom move set to fight rosalina because she can just go straight through luma with her invincible dash and rosalina by herself is harmless.

 

[We Are GX]

So number why, the setup i want is 1-3-1-1? I tried her out after a tournament was over and did friendlies with some people and i found be very fun. I main Ness and Wii Fit but i feel like Pala has some hidden potential.

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

Also, I have another custom setup I like to mess around with just for fun/trolling, which is 3233. I just upthrow at higher percents then activate Heavenly Light; sometimes I use it while the opponent is picking an option off the ledge. Also, if you ledge trump your opponent, just activate Heavenly Light; since it has a windbox that pushes your opponent away, you can use it keep them offstage and when even when they re-grab the ledge they'll still take damage from it; it's glorious. lol

I also try to catch landings with Angelic Missile and get kills off of it; sometimes I just blatantly just use it and they're not ready for it.

I use Rocket Jump out of shield for kills or offstage for spikes, lol.

And then Celestial Firework, lol, I have a replay save where my opponent dies off the top at around 30% due to triple Celestial Firework.

I might pull this build once in tournament as a surprise factor; I mean this build is interesting because it consists of a damage racker (Heavenly Light) and nothing else but KO power (Angelic Missile, Rocket Jump, Celestial Firework). I think this could work little wonders in doubles, too.

 

[Macchiato]

Also, I have another custom setup I like to mess around with just for fun/trolling, which is 3233. I just upthrow at higher percents then activate Heavenly Light; sometimes I use it while the opponent is picking an option off the ledge. Also, if you ledge trump your opponent, just activate Heavenly Light; since it has a windbox that pushes your opponent away, you can use it keep them offstage and when even when they re-grab the ledge they'll still take damage from it; it's glorious. lol

I also try to catch landings with Angelic Missile and get kills off of it; sometimes I just blatantly just use it and they're not ready for it.

I use Rocket Jump out of shield for kills or offstage for spikes, lol.

And then Celestial Firework, lol, I have a replay save where my opponent dies off the top at around 30% due to triple Celestial Firework.

I might pull this build once in tournament as a surprise factor; I mean this build is interesting because it consists of a damage racker (Heavenly Light) and nothing else but KO power (Angelic Missile, Rocket Jump, Celestial Firework). I think this could work little wonders in doubles, too.

Heavenly Light has use? Do yew think this could become a tournament option? Might as well try it. I like Reflect Barrier the best just because it ignores shields. This could lead to some mix ups. I'm gonna experiment with heavenly light

 

[InfinityCollision]

The thing about lightweight is that you have to get that kill within that timeframe, it's not as good as normal kill setups because it will expire.

But unlike most setups, it carries significant utility value. It's hard to stall her out for the full duration - and even if they succeed, all they've done is reset the situation until it's up again and you've ample tools in the meantime.

Counters are generally some of the most useful moves in the game

Not to mention Palutena's counter is lackluster even as counters go.

 

[Braydon]

But unlike most setups, it carries significant utility value. It's hard to stall her out for the full duration - and even if they succeed, all they've done is reset the situation until it's up again and you've ample tools in the meantime.




Not to mention Palutena's counter is lackluster even as counters go.

Her base move set is the most well rounded and hardest to counter, lightweight may give you new options but it makes palutena a less well rounded character. Also don't you fly farther when it's on and you get hit? Not sure on that but either way, shes more rounded with the default set.

Are you saying counters are not good moves? Also honestly palutena's is not that bad, it may not hit as hard as shulks but that doesn't make it worthless. Honestly landing a few counters can turn a game.

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

Heavenly Light has use? Do yew think this could become a tournament option? Might as well try it. I like Reflect Barrier the best just because it ignores shields. This could lead to some mix ups. I'm gonna experiment with heavenly light

Yeah, I actually do think Heavenly Light has it's uses, especially in doubles. However, it's hardly ever going to get used vs. fast characters like Sheik, Little Mac, or Fox. One of it's better uses is vs. slow or aerial-based characters. I think it's best use would be teaming with a Ness, and healing in combination of PK Magnet (Ness and Palutena compliment each other well, and Ness is one of Palutena's best partners to team up with in doubles imo).

Her base move set is the most well rounded and hardest to counter, lightweight may give you new options but it makes palutena a less well rounded character. Also don't you fly farther when it's on and you get hit? Not sure on that but either way, shes more rounded with the default set.

Are you saying counters are not good moves? Also honestly palutena's is not that bad, it may not hit as hard as shulks but that doesn't make it worthless. Honestly landing a few counters can turn a game.

I agree there are good times to counter, and it can save you in a pinch sometimes. However, the ability to gain KOs off of dthrow in Lightweight form (as well as chasing offstage and above near the ceiling) is too good not to use; Lightweight alone already makes Palutena significantly better because of that. It's not that Counter is bad, but that Lightweight is so much better.

 

[Braydon]

Idk, I've never had too huge problems KOing by default, and as I mentioned before, it only lasts for an amount of time then it goes on CD, so if you don't KO in that window you've got that wait, I just see it as to situational to be a good replacement for reliable counter.

 

[InfinityCollision]

Her base move set is the most well rounded and hardest to counter

Well rounded is debatable - while it may present the surface appearance of providing a diverse array of options, they're mostly lackluster and her ability to turn them into a well-rounded gameplan is lacking. Customs fill out gaps in her moveset and give her better options as a whole, which in turn leads to a more effective and well-rounded gameplan. Hardest to counter is laughable, the jump from default Palutena to customs-on Palutena is huge. Nobody else save perhaps the Miis benefits from customs to the extent that she does.

Also don't you fly farther when it's on and you get hit?

She takes 10% more damage from every hit - if she gets hit. Small price to pay for the best mobility in the game and guaranteed followups.

Are you saying counters are not good moves?

They're really not and never have been. Situational at best. Palutena's has decent minimum damage and uptime, but the hitbox is lackluster. Lightweight brings incredible synergy to her gameplan - it's far more valuable than a high risk, moderate reward move like Counter.